Seed phrase recovery?

[XXONE]

Years ago I had a lot of Bitcoin that I doomed and I've lost bitcoin in various ways. In the beginning, Bitcoin was more like a game to me, like modern CS:GO skins that you can collect and trade.

Now I have found a self-made puzzle of one of my seeds. I have about 30-50 seedphrase words here, I have written them down in a pattern that I can't remember. Only with the right pattern can I put the words in the right order.

So I definitely have the valid words, I just can't remember which ones they were.

Is there any chance of finding the words and putting them in the right order? The valid words should definitely be included.

There should be 12 valid ones.

I'll have to solve it myself, because I'm not going to let it out of my hands.

(I posted this topic in the wrong section before, I need to get it moved somehow)

Even if you have one phrase of 12 words in a chaotic order, then the enumeration will take 8916100448256 options. This is unrealistic, you need to remember your scheme, there is no other way.

[LoyceV]

Even if you have one phrase of 12 words in a chaotic order, then the enumeration will take 8916100448256 options. This is unrealistic, you need to remember your scheme, there is no other way.

The number 8916100448256 is 2²⁴ * 3¹².
You did 12¹² = 8916100448256. That's a lot more than the number of possible combinations you can make with 12 words, which is 12! = 479001600. Brute-forcing a seed phrase out of 12 correct but randomized words is not impossible.

To explain this to yourself: try it with 3 words:
A B C
A C B
B A C
B C A
C A B
C B A
That's not 3³ = 9 combinations, it's 3! = 1 * 2 * 3 = 6 combinations.

[satscraper]

That's a lot more than the number of possible combinations you can make with 12 words, which is 12! = 479001600. Brute-forcing a seed phrase out of 12 correct but randomized words is not impossible.

Although using 12! permutations is correct for estimating the number of ways to arrange 12 words, it's not an accurate estimate for the number of valid BIP39 seed phrases you can generate from them. There are two points one have to take into account: 1) in the valid BIP39 seed phrase the last word encodes the checksum ^{thus not all words permutations valid for SEED} 2) seed phrase may contain word/s repeated 2/3/? times. Thus the actual number of valid seed phrases you can build from the given set of 12 BIP39 words depends on the specific words and is hard to estimate in general case.

[BitMaxz]

All I can say based on what you said this is near impossible to recover why?
No leads, you don't remember the patterns and solutions.

If you have atleast have 7 phrases in the right order you can maybe able to brute force this wallet and use the 50 words to find 5 words missing the chances is higher than no leads.

For me, your method of hiding your seed phrase is not a good way for long term just like this you can't remember the pattern or solution.
Like other said don't do it again and the safest method for me to hide my wallet is to have a simple cold storage wallet. Atleast I have the wallet intact on that drive offline and a copy of seed phrase on another drive with password protected.

[satscraper]

you can't remember the pattern or solution.

If the pattern for 50-word set was designed to be memorable I would start by splitting the OP's list into even- and odd-positioned words. Then, I would select only the even-numbered words from each subset. This would leave me with two 12-word seeds one of which might be usable.

@fanya, why not to try this?

[keychainX]

Years ago I had a lot of Bitcoin that I doomed and I've lost bitcoin in various ways. In the beginning, Bitcoin was more like a game to me, like modern CS:GO skins that you can collect and trade.

Now I have found a self-made puzzle of one of my seeds. I have about 30-50 seedphrase words here, I have written them down in a pattern that I can't remember. Only with the right pattern can I put the words in the right order.

So I definitely have the valid words, I just can't remember which ones they were.

Is there any chance of finding the words and putting them in the right order? The valid words should definitely be included.

There should be 12 valid ones.

I'll have to solve it myself, because I'm not going to let it out of my hands.

(I posted this topic in the wrong section before, I need to get it moved somehow)

You sure its not a blockchain.info mnemonic? they can be any length as the first words are the wallet Identifier and the extra words password. If password is really really long the the word set can be 50 although the longest we have seen is 33.

Its possible to check if the words are part of the blockchain.info mnemonic word sets here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20180406224820/https://blockchain.info/Resources/js/mnemonic/mnemonic_words_v3.txt

it is possible to decrypt them info WALLET ID + PASSWORD

Good luck!
/KX

[Cricktor]

~~~

I'm not sure if you understand the magnitude of possibilities of OP's starting point. The sheer vastness of possible twelve words combinations is unfeasible to check and exhaust. You either don't have enough energy and/or time to check any possible combination of his "puzzle" situation.

It doesn't even help very much that you don't have to deep check every permutation, because the last word of BIP39 recovery words contains a partial SHA-256 checksum. You can exclude all permutation of words that fail the partial checksum test in the last word. But that's still only a rather marginal optimization, because you still have to check at least for a proper checksum before going further.

Without sensible clues how his "puzzle" was constructed, which the OP apparently doesn't have anymore, it's not likely to significantly reduce the amount of possible word combinations. The sample space is very very likely simply too large.

So, how can you say "it's very possible" when in very likely fact it's simply the opposite? "It could be a lengthy process...", yes indeed, if you have hundreds or thousands of years, guesstimated, you'll definitely have to take your time.  

[nc50lc]

-snip-

His reply looks and sounds like a typical reply from ChatGPT or similar AI chatbots.
It's just he's too lazy to read the entire OP or missed that part to include that there are 30 to 50 words in the list.

-snip-

That is only true if there are only 12 misarranged words.
Since: 12! = 479001600 (disregarding the checksum bytes)

But in OP's case, the number is too high (using your suggested "formular");
From (if there are 30 words to choose from): P(30,12)=30!/(30-12)! or 41430393164160000 permutations
To (if there are 50 words to choose from): P(50,12)=50!/(50-12)! or 58150627116341760000 permutations

[ABCbits]

-snip-

His reply looks and sounds like a typical reply from ChatGPT or similar AI chatbots.
It's just he's too lazy to read the entire OP or missed that part to include that there are 30 to 50 words in the list.

Both of you should see his feedback. He already received 5 feedback since late of last month.

Without sensible clues how his "puzzle" was constructed, which the OP apparently doesn't have anymore, it's not likely to significantly reduce the amount of possible word combinations. The sample space is very very likely simply too large.

In addition, OP never confirm whether his 30-50 words list exist on BIP 39 (total 2048 words) or old Electrum mnemonic (total 1626 words) which could add more search space.