Should the casino be liable if the games they added are proven rigged?

[bubilas]

As smart gamblers always say, DYOR ( do-your-own-research). but what if we ended up gambling in a casino where some of the games were actually rigged? I'm talking about games made by third-party providers, not the ones developed by the casino itself. They advertise these games as provably fair, but in reality, no one really checks the system, until one day, a tech-savvy guy exposes it and proves the game was rigged.

So the question is, if we were gambling on a rigged game and obviously lost, and since the transaction is only between us and the casino, and most of us don’t even know who the game providers are, would the casino still be held liable?

I think most dishonest online casinos force the gambler to accept dishonest conditions at the registration stage, according to which he will agree to what is beneficial to this casino. Most likely, this will be written in "fine print" and will contain information that the casino at any time at its discretion can block the gambler's deposits or suspend the input and output of his funds if it considers his activity suspicious.

Well, the concept of suspicion is very elastic and therefore such a clause in the agreement gives the casino full power to do whatever it wants with the account of an unwanted gambler, for example, the one who started an investigation against the casino.

[Justbillywitt]

The only way to hold the casino accountable is to prove a deliberate conspiracy between the casino and the provider to use a rigged game, if such an unlikely event can occur at all. Because you have to be either incredibly greedy or stupid to cheat and risk destroying your business, which already makes a huge profit.

Exactly you can't hold someone liable for what they have no idea about, casinos are just service providers, so anyone bringing up such claims will have to do more home work in getting evidences. You lost money, casino lost money in advertising and paying gamblers that won and you want to hold them responsible, it makes no sense. If this to happen, that means the entire casinos that advertised the game in their platform are all going to be in court. If there's anyone that's supposed to be held responsible it should be the third party that provided the game and not the casinos. The casinos are just like retailers, if anything is wrong with the products, it's definitely from the producers.

By the way, if the provider's activities are licensed, should the licensing authority have access to the source code for verification? If so, the question arises about the degree of responsibility of the licensing authority. Unless such bodies are intended only to collect money for licenses...

I believe that the provider's activities should be checkmate by the licencing authority for credibility. The provider's shouldn't be given free hands to operate without any monitoring. If they are left unchecked, issues like this will keep arising, because humans when left unchecked can do things they way they want it and not how it's supposed to be done.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

Yes, the casino will be held liable for any of such losses that streams from a rigged game or system glitch. There's an old thread on this board about a gambler that reported a casino because he played a slot game for more than 1k rounds (I can't remember the number accurately but it was very large) and he didn't win a single round which is not possible that someone can play for even more than 100 rounds without winning a single round, so he decided to report the casino so that they can come out and prove if the game was fair or not but at the end of the incident, it was discovered that the system had a problem which was the reason for the man's losses. The casino had to return all the money he lost and also paid him a certain percentage. So, yes, the casino will be held liable.

[TopT3ns]

Yes, the casino will be held liable for any of such losses that streams from a rigged game or system glitch. There's an old thread on this board about a gambler that reported a casino because he played a slot game for more than 1k rounds (I can't remember the number accurately but it was very large) and he didn't win a single round which is not possible that someone can play for even more than 100 rounds without winning a single round, so he decided to report the casino so that they can come out and prove if the game was fair or not but at the end of the incident, it was discovered that the system had a problem which was the reason for the man's losses. The casino had to return all the money he lost and also paid him a certain percentage. So, yes, the casino will be held liable.

When we further assume, the problem that the players are facing is not winning and losing, but a loss which is occasioned by a faulty system. I can see that you think that casinos ought to be responsible, because even in case of fair play the chance to win should be somehow reasonable. Refunds are not to be negotiated in case bugs are found. It is possible to appreciate the importance of fairness not only in regards to chance, but also to the consistency of the system applied by the casino in every game round.

[alastantiger]

So the question is, if we were gambling on a rigged game and obviously lost, and since the transaction is only between us and the casino, and most of us don’t even know who the game providers are, would the casino still be held liable?

Yes the caisnos has to be held responsible, it isn't our own work to make the games to be fair but that of the casino because it's their reputation that's at risk. When we get scammed and we want to advise others not o become victim, it's the caisnos name that'll be mentioned. The casino are making so much money from the bets we play hence it is their duty to provide us with reliable games to play. Already we're at a disadvantage hence having to make the games unfair to we players isn't a good practice. When I noticed a game was unfair to me, it's the caisnos that I'll hold responsible and I believe that's what everybody is going to do unless it's a caisnos that's decentralized and doesn't have control of what's being listed on their platform but I doubt we have such services at the moment.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

Yes, the casino will be held liable for any of such losses that streams from a rigged game or system glitch. There's an old thread on this board about a gambler that reported a casino because he played a slot game for more than 1k rounds (I can't remember the number accurately but it was very large) and he didn't win a single round which is not possible that someone can play for even more than 100 rounds without winning a single round, so he decided to report the casino so that they can come out and prove if the game was fair or not but at the end of the incident, it was discovered that the system had a problem which was the reason for the man's losses. The casino had to return all the money he lost and also paid him a certain percentage. So, yes, the casino will be held liable.

When we further assume, the problem that the players are facing is not winning and losing, but a loss which is occasioned by a faulty system. I can see that you think that casinos ought to be responsible, because even in case of fair play the chance to win should be somehow reasonable. Refunds are not to be negotiated in case bugs are found. It is possible to appreciate the importance of fairness not only in regards to chance, but also to the consistency of the system applied by the casino in every game round.

The thing is that we believed that the games are fair but most times even when it's rigged against players or maybe when the system has some issues to lead to our losses, we might not be able to detect it unless it is very much obvious like the case I was talking about on my first comment. The casino should be able to tell when their system has an issue because they could face losses or cause players to lose when they are not supposed to.

[Russlenat]

I believe that's what everybody is going to do unless it's a caisnos that's decentralized and doesn't have control of what's being listed on their platform but I doubt we have such services at the moment.

what if the casinos don’t really control the games listed on their platform, like centralized casinos, but can’t even see if the game is rigged? They’re not the creators of the game, so it’s hard for them to check the system. just like us, they also rely on the reputation of the game providers. They trust them, but what if the provider rigs the system to increase profit? The casino would also benefit from that without even knowing.

I think game providers should only be given a fixed fee, so they won’t be tempted to rig the games just to make more profit.

[peter0425]

Yes, the casino will be held liable for any of such losses that streams from a rigged game or system glitch. There's an old thread on this board about a gambler that reported a casino because he played a slot game for more than 1k rounds (I can't remember the number accurately but it was very large) and he didn't win a single round which is not possible that someone can play for even more than 100 rounds without winning a single round, so he decided to report the casino so that they can come out and prove if the game was fair or not but at the end of the incident, it was discovered that the system had a problem which was the reason for the man's losses. The casino had to return all the money he lost and also paid him a certain percentage. So, yes, the casino will be held liable.

This kind of thing can ruin the casino’s reputation forever. Somehow the gambler was lucky to be unlucky because he got all his money back with a little bit of extra. Even if the casino did not intend for this to happen. They were still held liable. I wonder if some casinos really do rig it but just not get caught.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

As smart gamblers always say, DYOR ( do-your-own-research). but what if we ended up gambling in a casino where some of the games were actually rigged? I'm talking about games made by third-party providers, not the ones developed by the casino itself. They advertise these games as provably fair, but in reality, no one really checks the system, until one day, a tech-savvy guy exposes it and proves the game was rigged.

So the question is, if we were gambling on a rigged game and obviously lost, and since the transaction is only between us and the casino, and most of us don’t even know who the game providers are, would the casino still be held liable?

Of course yes, the transaction we made are between us and the casino and not the game provider, so when we discover that a game from a third party is rigged, the casino is the one we the gamblers hold responsible and then the casino can hold the game providers responsible.

Why we gamblers hold the casino responsible is because it is the casino's sole responsibility to scan and check every game they are listing on their platform to ensure there are no malicious code included in its codebase, as well as database, so, if the casino is the one that will be advertising the game as provably fair, they are the ones that gamblers should hold responsible if it is discovered that the game isn't actually provably fair as they claimed, this is just the same way it is the casino we hold responsible when ever we gamble and win from the same third party game like slot, and the win isn't credited to our account at the time we expect that it should have been credited.

[tread93]

In my personal opinion, of course they should be liable.

How will you prove a game is rigged though? For instance, slots are 99% of the time running by providers on their own server so the randomness is not provably fair.

What you should do is something along the lines of running hundreds of thousands of runs which could be expensive and then again you should be trusted as without provable fairness.

In any case, if a game is proven rigged if a casino wants to keep their reputation in my view they should reverse the bets at least without the fee of the provider if there is one.

But good luck enforcing this under the current legal landscape of casinos.

I would have to agree to your points that they should 100% be held liable because this is legit scamming people out of their money. Also agree with the good luck at enforcing the law on these casinos. The owners depending on where have many ties with local authorities and probably give them kick backs i would imagine. Im sure it happens quite a bit like that, depends where you are too I guess

[maydna]

In my personal opinion, of course they should be liable.

How will you prove a game is rigged though? For instance, slots are 99% of the time running by providers on their own server so the randomness is not provably fair.

What you should do is something along the lines of running hundreds of thousands of runs which could be expensive and then again you should be trusted as without provable fairness.

In any case, if a game is proven rigged if a casino wants to keep their reputation in my view they should reverse the bets at least without the fee of the provider if there is one.

But good luck enforcing this under the current legal landscape of casinos.

I would have to agree to your points that they should 100% be held liable because this is legit scamming people out of their money. Also agree with the good luck at enforcing the law on these casinos. The owners depending on where have many ties with local authorities and probably give them kick backs i would imagine. Im sure it happens quite a bit like that, depends where you are too I guess

Yes, both of you are right. But it is not many casinos that want to say they are scamming people. If those casinos don't have a reputation, they will easily say that they don't scam people and deny that. They don't even care about the people who lose because that is not their business.

That will not happen to reputable casinos because they care about their reputation and don't want to do something bad that can cause them to lose their reputation.

The casino must have responsibility including solving the scam assumption that can happen. They need to clear the mess.

[LUCKMCFLY]

The casino should be able to tell when their system has an issue because they could face losses or cause players to lose when they are not supposed to.

This only happens in cases where the casino is clearly given to its good reputation, that it is old and that it cares about the status that it has raised over the years, currently there are very few casinos, I would say some as an example that are honorable and very trustworthy casinos such as stake.com, bitcasino.io, duelbits, rollbit, among others which are here in the forum, are a clear example where the casinos do care about correcting problems where customers feel attacked.

[Dunamisx]

This aspect even talks more of the game providers and not the casinos holders, because how do they know if it has been rigged right from time or not, another thing also is what they expect from each everyone of us is not to play and always win, but they are also reminding us for a responsible gambling and to do as according to their what we on know, in every game, there's always an house edge benefit.

[kawetsriyanto]

Even if the games are provided by the third-party, casinos must be liable since the games are in the casinos. It means the games are a part of the casino service. However, it is quite difficult to determine whether they are rigged games or not. How do you know they are rigged games? If you mostly get losses in the games, it isn't automatically a sign of rigged games. You may be unlucky in the games, or you have no skills on the games.

By the way, I think it will be clearer if you mention what games you refer to. You don't need to mention what casinos that provide the games. But you should mention the games at least.  

[TopT3ns]

The casino should be able to tell when their system has an issue because they could face losses or cause players to lose when they are not supposed to.

This only happens in cases where the casino is clearly given to its good reputation, that it is old and that it cares about the status that it has raised over the years, currently there are very few casinos, I would say some as an example that are honorable and very trustworthy casinos such as stake.com, bitcasino.io, duelbits, rollbit, among others which are here in the forum, are a clear example where the casinos do care about correcting problems where customers feel attacked.

From a community point of view, if complaints are responded to in a measured manner, improvements are shown and open communication is maintained, we feel secure to use and recommend the service. I've found that companies that have good reporting mechanisms in place - and demonstrate this by publishing evidence of conflict resolution - are more likely to retain customers in the long term. We also take part in keeping each other accountable for community assistance, as well as making critiques of bad practise. Even if a lot of people are complaining about bad experiences, a second-hand reputation that's based on people's complaints can't substitute for actual action.

[AmoreJaz]

This aspect even talks more of the game providers and not the casinos holders, because how do they know if it has been rigged right from time or not, another thing also is what they expect from each everyone of us is not to play and always win, but they are also reminding us for a responsible gambling and to do as according to their what we on know, in every game, there's always an house edge benefit.

If the gambler wants to know the protocols when it comes to third party providers, you need to check it in the terms and conditions of the casino. In stake, they have Providers section as well as other conditions that you may want to look at pertaining to their third party providers. So you know the extent of the responsibility of the casino when something goes wrong with one of their providers.