Mixers to be banned

[bitmover]

Even centralized exchanges can also be used as a form of mixer.

Good old times when we had no KYC. I remember in 2021 Binance had like 3 BTC withdrawal limit without KYC or AML.
We could use kucoin, binance and many others as a way to break the link between addresses.
Not anymore.

I found it shocking that most popular mixers were centralized

basically nothing but bitcoin is decentralized. 99% of the time you see "decentralized" it is a lie, just trying to catch customers.

[alani123]

(...)
Generally the marketing mixers have is very antithetical to bitcoin's nature because they make it seem as if using their service is essential to using bitcoin properly whereas actually using a mixer as an intermediary had put people in police investigations and later jail on several occasions so it's arguably worse than plain P2P non mixed transactions.
(...)

Your post caught my attention. Have any members here on the forum been investigated for simply using a mixer?

I'm referring to an ordinary person, who apparently wasn't involved in any heinous crime involving their transactions.

It's always a good idea to access these services through the Tor network.

The issue with mixers is not so much the IP address of the user but rather the address the funds are sent from.
If you send from a KYC platform it means instant de-anonymization. The feds will ask and receive records from the exchange and know your ID in a matter of days.

Mixers are harmful because in their marketing it's in their interest to hide this fact. Proper use of a mixer would mean that your funds were already "mixed", i.e. Following an untraceable route to your KYC. But because of deceptive marketing it's easy for anyone that doesn't know this to get busted.

[Oshosondy]

Even centralized exchanges can also be used as a form of mixer.

Good old times when we had no KYC. I remember in 2021 Binance had like 3 BTC withdrawal limit without KYC or AML.
We could use kucoin, binance and many others as a way to break the link between addresses.
Not anymore.
basically nothing but bitcoin is decentralized. 99% of the time you see "decentralized" it is a lie, just trying to catch customers.

I am still able to withdraw without KYC on MEXC. It is written on the exchange that people will be able to withdraw up to 8 BTC of a coin on the exchange per day. Some people said they force them to get verified but I have not been verified on the exchange till now.

You can also use exchanges like Hyperliquid and Aster to swap and withdraw without KYC needed. They are very similar to the old days centralized exchanges that you are talking about. They just use another name to rebrand themselves, nothing more. You can use email to sign in without password or connect you noncustodial wallet.

[arabspaceship123]

You can also use exchanges like Hyperliquid and Aster to swap and withdraw without KYC needed. They are very similar to the old days centralized exchanges that you are talking about. They just use another name to rebrand themselves, nothing more. You can use email to sign in without password or connect you noncustodial wallet.

Locating trusted exchanges which you can withdraw without KYC needed is hard. You can swap and withdraw on Hyperliquid and Aster because they are respectable exchanges. A whale is using Hyperliquid for trades. $10,000,000,000 Bitcoin Whale Abruptly Moves $363,810,000 in BTC to Hyperliquid – Is Another Ethereum Swap Incoming?

[Oshosondy]

Locating trusted exchanges which you can withdraw without KYC needed is hard. You can swap and withdraw on Hyperliquid and Aster because they are respectable exchanges. A whale is using Hyperliquid for trades. $10,000,000,000 Bitcoin Whale Abruptly Moves $363,810,000 in BTC to Hyperliquid – Is Another Ethereum Swap Incoming?

There is another common one now called Aster exchange which was lauched with backing from Changpeng Zhao (CZ) and YZi Labs (formerly Binance Labs). The exchange now is having slightly higher trading volume than hyperliquid. But people should not use them with apps, they should just use them directly on a browser if they want privacy. Apps will easily leak the information about users.

Mixers are harmful because in their marketing it's in their interest to hide this fact. Proper use of a mixer would mean that your funds were already "mixed", i.e. Following an untraceable route to your KYC. But because of deceptive marketing it's easy for anyone that doesn't know this to get busted.

The reason I do not like mixers is because they will first be in custody of your coins because they will mix it for you. No escrow or trusted party that makes the money secure in a way that users will be safe.

[Wiwo]

Even centralized exchanges can also be used as a form of mixer.

Good old times when we had no KYC. I remember in 2021 Binance had like 3 BTC withdrawal limit without KYC or AML.
We could use kucoin, binance and many others as a way to break the link between addresses.
Not anymore.

I found it shocking that most popular mixers were centralized

basically nothing but bitcoin is decentralized. 99% of the time you see "decentralized" it is a lie, just trying to catch customers.

That is the obvious truth and as a matter of fact bad actors have exploited the decentralized services such as mixers and from my obvious experience mixers are really bad actors since there service could be exploited by hacker's and scammers and the trust issues with mixers being in custody of your coins while mixing in process, i think we should give theymos the kudos for taking the bold steps, stop mixer promotions around the forum, promoting mixers services is like promoting ponzi scheme again regardless how much they offers.

For now to get some level of trust one must be ready to give up privacy, since trust have become highly expensive, alot is happening in both the centralized and decentralized bitcoin services like exchange and mixers and for thsy we have to be more careful as actors to avoid getting caught up in any web.

[Forsyth Jones]

That is the obvious truth and as a matter of fact bad actors have exploited the decentralized services such as mixers and from my obvious experience mixers are really bad actors since there service could be exploited by hacker's and scammers and the trust issues with mixers being in custody of your coins while mixing in process, i think we should give theymos the kudos for taking the bold steps, stop mixer promotions around the forum, promoting mixers services is like promoting ponzi scheme again regardless how much they offers.

For now to get some level of trust one must be ready to give up privacy, since trust have become highly expensive, alot is happening in both the centralized and decentralized bitcoin services like exchange and mixers and for thsy we have to be more careful as actors to avoid getting caught up in any web.

Mixers have been part of Bitcoin's history since the beginning. I disagree with your view that mixers are bad actors. They're just a tool, and like any tool, you have to know what you're doing. A person only uses a mixer or coinjoin to gain more privacy, for whatever reason.

Any service can be exploited by scammers and hackers, no matter what restrictive measures are adopted. However, well-intentioned people end up paying the consequences.

[PowerGlove]

If anything, the government stole from ChipMixer users who hadn't spent their chips yet.

Yep. I don't know what kind of logic/justification is used to feel that it's OK for them to help themselves to those chips.

I basically see this sort of thing as an overbearing parent barking "My house, my rules!" during their non-explanation of why it's OK for them to rifle through your backpack and confiscate anything they don't like the look of when they've caught you trying to sneak out at night, or something.

More and more, I view most governments as tax-funded might turned back on its own support base, with a sentiment that goes, "Stop doing the things that we've told you not to do, and everything will be fine. Keep doing those things, and you'll only force our hand and come to discover just how erodible your freedoms are, and just how little autonomy we're ultimately prepared to grant each of you."

[LoyceV]

If anything, the government stole from ChipMixer users who hadn't spent their chips yet.

Yep. I don't know what kind of logic/justification is used to feel that it's OK for them to help themselves to those chips.

The justification is probably "money laundering". When they claim so many billions were laundered, I assume that includes every coin that ever went through that mixer, which means in their justification there can't be honest users.

[PostQuantumBTC]

If anything, the government stole from ChipMixer users who hadn't spent their chips yet.

Yep. I don't know what kind of logic/justification is used to feel that it's OK for them to help themselves to those chips.

The justification is probably "money laundering". When they claim so many billions were laundered, I assume that includes every coin that ever went through that mixer, which means in their justification there can't be honest users.

Only 0.15% of bitcoin were seen in criminal actions in 2021 according to a research, that is worth a total of $14 billion that year. Stable coins like USDT have been seen in more criminal actions as bitcoin seen there reduced.

If bitcoin is not existing, money laundering will still be of the same magnitude as it is today. The government only gets bigger to make unnecessary laws. When I studied more about money laundering, I know how the fiat is fucked.

[NotATether]

If anything, the government stole from ChipMixer users who hadn't spent their chips yet.

Yep. I don't know what kind of logic/justification is used to feel that it's OK for them to help themselves to those chips.

Welcome to the FBI. Shown a warrant? Well now we can legally confiscate your stuff.

Only 0.15% of bitcoin were seen in criminal actions in 2021 according to a research, that is worth a total of $14 billion that year. Stable coins like USDT have been seen in more criminal actions as bitcoin seen there reduced.

If bitcoin is not existing, money laundering will still be of the same magnitude as it is today. The government only gets bigger to make unnecessary laws. When I studied more about money laundering, I know how the fiat is fucked.

The CIA takes part in the money laundering and then conveniently creates "DoJ reports" like the one implied in the OP if any service gets too big.