A return to Satoshi path building a market free from fiat

[SatokoNakatoko]

Hello everyone,

I’ve been reading BitcoinTalk for a long time and finally decided to write something that’s been on my mind for months.

I believe that Bitcoin was never meant to depend on the dollar, or any form of fiat.

What we have today — pairs like BTC/USDT, BTC/USD — is a necessary bridge, but not the final step.

Satoshi created a peer-to-peer monetary system.

But what about a peer-to-peer market — an exchange where BTC, ETH, SOL, and other cryptos can trade directly between each other, with no stablecoins, no USD, no middle currency?

In my view, the next chapter of Satoshi vision is not a new coin, but a new market logic.

A place where prices are measured only by crypto assets themselves — value against value — not against a government-issued standard.

I’m not a company or a team, just one person who believes we can still build systems that belong to everyone, not to institutions.

If any developer, researcher, or thinker here believes this idea deserves to exist — I would be honored to discuss it.

We talk a lot about “financial freedom”.

Maybe true freedom begins when markets themselves stop speaking the language of fiat.

— SatokoNakatoko

[SatokoNakatoko]

Thanks to anyone taking time to read. I’d like to add a few notes about how this “market free from fiat” could technically exist.

The idea isn’t to replace exchanges, but to build a parallel layer — a peer-to-peer liquidity protocol where collateral, trading pairs, and PnL are entirely crypto-native.

Collateral: users could deposit BTC, ETH, or SOL to open positions, using a multi-asset collateral model instead of stablecoins.

Pricing: an internal oracle could compute fair value using cross-asset references (BTC/ETH/SOL) rather than USD feeds.

Settlement: profit and loss would be settled in the base asset chosen by the trader.

Governance: open-source and non-custodial — the code itself defines the rules.

In short, it would be a true continuation of Satoshi’s peer-to-peer logic, extending it to markets themselves.

Any thoughts, feedback, or references from early cypherpunks or devs here would mean a lot.

— SatokoNakatoko

[cr1776]

The goal was to avoid having to get into or out of bitcoin.  Just remain in bitcoin and transact.  The odds are that eventually it will get there, but the problem right now for many places is that using bitcoin could result in taxes (e.g. in the US, capital gains taxes) which makes it quite un-frictionless.  When bitcoin and fiat reach some type of equilibrium at some price in fiat (perhaps another order or 2.5 of magnitude) people will be more inclined to spend vs invest.

[AmoreJaz]

The goal was to avoid having to get into or out of bitcoin.  Just remain in bitcoin and transact.  The odds are that eventually it will get there, but the problem right now for many places is that using bitcoin could result in taxes (e.g. in the US, capital gains taxes) which makes it quite un-frictionless.  When bitcoin and fiat reach some type of equilibrium at some price in fiat (perhaps another order or 2.5 of magnitude) people will be more inclined to spend vs invest.

As the btc adoption is going mainstream, we can't escape from the fact that any crypto-related businesses will comply with government's protocol. And so just like fiat-based business, this kind of business will abide by the government's regulations. And that means, we can't totally eradicate its path from relating to fiat. We still need to convert it to fiat to know its actual value in the market.
For now, let us admit the fact that we do need trading platforms in order to get the equivalent amount of fiat from our crypto holdings. Because that's when we can really utilize it for our everyday living. A lot of shops or sites don't accept btc payment yet, but with your btc - you can already cash out via trading platforms to get its fiat value.

[ABCbits]

But what about a peer-to-peer market — an exchange where BTC, ETH, SOL, and other cryptos can trade directly between each other, with no stablecoins, no USD, no middle currency?

You should try using swap/exchange finder tool (such as OrangeFren). It can list exchange that support swap between 2 coin you choose, where some of them can even list exchange that "never" ask for KYC.

[aoluain]

But what about a peer-to-peer market — an exchange where BTC, ETH, SOL, and other cryptos can trade directly between each other, with no stablecoins, no USD, no middle currency?

Personally I wouldnt want to trade any of my Bitcoin for $hitcoins and I am sure I am not alone
in thinking that. It is also my understanding/opinion that a lot of people who are "into" $hitcoins
dont really have an interest in Bitcoin in so far as using it as a monetary system or peer-to-peer
exchange or anything like that.

Looking at the top 5 and their market price, I can have approximately 3 whole ETH or 24,000 XRP
or 60 Solana for a tenth of a Bitcoin and hope and pray that I catch a big pump.

Most of us here have seen these scenarios and are not interested anymore, most newbies are more
drawn to $hitcoins.

AFAIK most exchanges allow trading between Bitcoin and other Crypto.

[Frankolala]

You mustn't swap your bitcoin to usdt or usdc, you can swap it to any coin of your choice. You cannot use those altcoins to purchase good in the real world compared to usdt because it's pegged to USD fiat. This is why you see the trading pairs like that. I don't have altcoin but only bitcoin making trading from bitcoin to shitcoins useless to me. I only trade bitcoin to fiat for spending. It's easier to calculate in usdt than to calculate in shitcoin.

[BattleDog]

I'm into the "stop speaking dollar" goal.  

The trap with pure BTC pairs was the wobbling footing. When BTC jumps, then every chart gets skewed. The fix for that is not actually USD, but a crypto-native numeraire. We should use a small basket index G (e.g., BTC/ETH/SOL), quote everything in G, margin and settle PnL in G, and only convert on withdrawal. Suddenly our risk math doesn't get whipflucked when one coin moonwalks in reverse, backwards.

We can use cross-ratio oracles instead of fiat feeds. Have median TWAPs from multiple DEXs, circuit breakers, and if things desync, we can flip to auctions instead of pretending you know the price. Collateral in G with a simple, public risk model and liquidations via Dutch auctions that accept any basket asset. We'll keep it boring and redundant so nobody can choke a single throat.

That's how I envision it could work.

[mak013]

While we live in fiat world - we can`t count in BTC. Even if you would buy everything using BTC - sellers would pay taxes in fiat money. They have to know how much BTC costs. And you can`t buy everything, you have to use fiat money, somewhere you have to pay taxes for BTC using.
But you can use swaps BTC-SOL, BTC-ETH without using USD(T), you can pay in BTC(somewhere), you can count in BTC.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

The OP is such a genius, he's been thinking really hard about a system that already exists: being able to exchange bitcoin for shitcoins without going through stablecoins.

You mustn't swap your bitcoin to usdt or usdc, you can swap it to any coin of your choice.

The thing is, ideas like the one the OP came up with occur to people who spend a lot of time thinking and little time having real-world experiences. If he had used an exchange, or at least taken a look at one, he wouldn't come up with these brilliant ideas.

[moneystery]

I’ve been reading BitcoinTalk for a long time and finally decided to write something that’s been on my mind for months.

But your account was only created 1 day ago, how can that be called a "long time", it is a very short time.

I believe that Bitcoin was never meant to depend on the dollar, or any form of fiat.

What we have today — pairs like BTC/USDT, BTC/USD — is a necessary bridge, but not the final step.

It is simply a pair on an exchange to accommodate the trading of users. Bitcoin has never depended on these currencies

But what about a peer-to-peer market — an exchange where BTC, ETH, SOL, and other cryptos can trade directly between each other, with no stablecoins, no USD, no middle currency?

On centralized exchanges there are many Bitcoin pairs to altcoins, just do your search on Google and you will find it.

In my view, the next chapter of Satoshi vision is not a new coin, but a new market logic.

A place where prices are measured only by crypto assets themselves — value against value — not against a government-issued standard.

There is no such thing as the next chapter of Satoshi's vision. Satoshi's vision is only the creation of a decentralized, peer-to-peer electronic cash system that is free of censorship that is fair, secure and decentralized.

If any developer, researcher, or thinker here believes this idea deserves to exist — I would be honored to discuss it.

We talk a lot about “financial freedom”.

Maybe true freedom begins when markets themselves stop speaking the language of fiat.

You are not an innovator because what you are saying is already in the market.