Final Warning for Day Traders

[wobber]

This thread is needed.

Speculators, overall harmed most of bitcoin economy, but none of them on the same level day-traders did. They are mostly interested in fiat or if interested to gain more BTC is only to have more leverage in terms of fiat. They think in fiat, feel in fiat, want fiat. Bitcoin is just an instrument. They do not care what happens with bitcoin tomorrow if they gain money now.

The problem is this kind of behavior is taking up a big portion of the community (nobody expects it to be 0, but lower would be better).

So the warning is this: stop day trading. Soon we'll have a nice tragedy of the commons if people continue to sell again, when Somalia bans bitcoin again for the 100th time. Everybody is here to make money, but more money are to be made if we keep in mind only 10 mil of BTC exist. (If taken out 2 mil as lost forever)

If I could afford to buy 100 coins, the only thing I'd do is keep it in offline storage. Risk of trading them in exchanges is too high. See MtGox case. Lots of successful traders lost almost all because all the gains were kept in the exchange. There was this guy trading from 2010 and tripled his coins. Where are his coins now? In his wallet or into Mtgox Nirvana? Think of it.

You are the key. Price is the measurement of your holding patience.

Nothing changed for you to sell. Still 10 million bitcoins exists and a max of 21 mil. So if 10 or 21 mil people want it, they can only have 1. If you have 10, you're 10 times better.

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

What you are asking here is for people to increase artificial deficiency.
At first, bitcoin is already strongly plagued by artificially created deficiency. There are already loads of people who wish to get very wealthy by doing absolutely no work, and just by holding.
In the perspective of what is good for society, this is not good, because it will reward those who are greedy and lazy. And in the perspective of an investor, it's not good because price driven up by artificial deficiency is extremely fragile, and it will eventually suffer a very rapid decline.

[ravetrader]

Whats the problem?

There is no difference between one bitcoin worth 500 $ and one bitcoin wotrth 1 $.

It is still "one" bitcoin! And you can still divide it into small pieces and trade  it for goods.


You are telling about those bad guys who are only interested in fiat and actually do not believe in bitcoin itself and the idea behind it. Well you are one of them as well. The idea behind bitcoin is an anonymously peer to peer cyrrency, which cannot be banned by a government or bank or other institution. And bitcoin is and will always be that kind of currency no matter how high or low the actual value is! Bitcoin is currency, and a currency is for buying and selling goods. But you want to keep all the coins, so the value rises and then sell, so you can gain fiat!

And by the way, the market needs daytraders, it need speculators. Otherwise there will be no volatility. A market without volatility is a dead market. Every bitcoin that is sold on the market, can only be sold cuz of guys willing to buy it. And every bitcoin bought on the market, can only be bought because of people, that are willing to sell. If no one sells, than guys will give a fuck about your coins and will go use dogecoin!

[OC19850520]

Price is not so important for me, I preffer better adoption and Bitcoin used on more places. So far the future looks promising, so why care if tommorow another $300 is hit?

[Dalmar]

Day traders are actually what keep bitcoin alive.. without them cashing in and out would be a pain in the ass with even greater spreads and overall bitcoin would be less efficient of a payment system.

[ElectricMucus]

This thread is needed.

Speculators, overall harmed most of bitcoin economy, but none of them on the same level day-traders did. They are mostly interested in fiat or if interested to gain more BTC is only to have more leverage in terms of fiat. They think in fiat, feel in fiat, want fiat. Bitcoin is just an instrument. They do not care what happens with bitcoin tomorrow if they gain money now.

The problem is this kind of behavior is taking up a big portion of the community (nobody expects it to be 0, but lower would be better).

So the warning is this: stop day trading. Soon we'll have a nice tragedy of the commons if people continue to sell again, when Somalia bans bitcoin again for the 100th time. Everybody is here to make money, but more money are to be made if we keep in mind only 10 mil of BTC exist. (If taken out 2 mil as lost forever)

If I could afford to buy 100 coins, the only thing I'd do is keep it in offline storage. Risk of trading them in exchanges is too high. See MtGox case. Lots of successful traders lost almost all because all the gains were kept in the exchange. There was this guy trading from 2010 and tripled his coins. Where are his coins now? In his wallet or into Mtgox Nirvana? Think of it.

You are the key. Price is the measurement of your holding patience.

Nothing changed for you to sell. Still 10 million bitcoins exists and a max of 21 mil. So if 10 or 21 mil people want it, they can only have 1. If you have 10, you're 10 times better.

Wow talk about hypocrisy, you're worse than I thought. But keep it up at least now you're contributing to the Drama.

[oda.krell]

This thread is needed.

Speculators, overall harmed most of bitcoin economy, but none of them on the same level day-traders did. They are mostly interested in fiat or if interested to gain more BTC is only to have more leverage in terms of fiat. They think in fiat, feel in fiat, want fiat. Bitcoin is just an instrument. They do not care what happens with bitcoin tomorrow if they gain money now.

The problem is this kind of behavior is taking up a big portion of the community (nobody expects it to be 0, but lower would be better).

So the warning is this: stop day trading. Soon we'll have a nice tragedy of the commons if people continue to sell again, when Somalia bans bitcoin again for the 100th time. Everybody is here to make money, but more money are to be made if we keep in mind only 10 mil of BTC exist. (If taken out 2 mil as lost forever)

If I could afford to buy 100 coins, the only thing I'd do is keep it in offline storage. Risk of trading them in exchanges is too high. See MtGox case. Lots of successful traders lost almost all because all the gains were kept in the exchange. There was this guy trading from 2010 and tripled his coins. Where are his coins now? In his wallet or into Mtgox Nirvana? Think of it.

You are the key. Price is the measurement of your holding patience.

Nothing changed for you to sell. Still 10 million bitcoins exists and a max of 21 mil. So if 10 or 21 mil people want it, they can only have 1. If you have 10, you're 10 times better.

Huh. This is a new level of pathetic reaction to a little bit of bear market....

Let me put it in simple terms: If Bitcoin isn't resistant enough (or as some like to call it: anti-fragile) to survive the normal processes in a market economy, then it is going to be replaced by something that is able to survive just that.


tl;dr The (unwritten) rules of capitalism aren't turned off at your convenience.

[manicminer5]

Day traders are actually what keep bitcoin alive.. without them cashing in and out would be a pain in the ass with even greater spreads and overall bitcoin would be less efficient of a payment system.

+1

Day traders and "speculators" are significant part of (not only) bitcoin economy.

[Wandererfromthenorth]

To me it's the opposite. The fiat money that I have and put into BTC exchanges are only a tool to get more BTC.

Bitcoin will probably survive "bans", restrictions, and bear markets. It's a test that BTC needs to pass. Which is good.

[Siegfried]

What you are asking here is for people to increase artificial deficiency.
At first, bitcoin is already strongly plagued by artificially created deficiency. There are already loads of people who wish to get very wealthy by doing absolutely no work, and just by holding.
In the perspective of what is good for society, this is not good, because it will reward those who are greedy and lazy. And in the perspective of an investor, it's not good because price driven up by artificial deficiency is extremely fragile, and it will eventually suffer a very rapid decline.

How is Bitcoin's "artificially created" scarcity any less artificial than the limitless supply of fiat currencies, and why is that a plague? It doesn't matter if something is scarce, its price will not rise unless there is demand.

I agree that it is not good for society to reward those who are greedy and lazy, however, this is how society has functioned for thousands of years. The benefits to society of Bitcoin will far outweigh the injustice of a few thousand early adopters becoming extremely wealthy by greed, laziness, and luck. And I would say that the majority of the Bitcoin early adopters did contribute something to its development and they will be much better stewards of wealth than the average member of the current elite class; most of them are intelligent, visionary, and care about humanity.

[bcmine]

This thread is needed.

Speculators, overall harmed most of bitcoin economy, but none of them on the same level day-traders did. They are mostly interested in fiat or if interested to gain more BTC is only to have more leverage in terms of fiat. They think in fiat, feel in fiat, want fiat. Bitcoin is just an instrument. They do not care what happens with bitcoin tomorrow if they gain money now.

The problem is this kind of behavior is taking up a big portion of the community (nobody expects it to be 0, but lower would be better).

So the warning is this: stop day trading. Soon we'll have a nice tragedy of the commons if people continue to sell again, when Somalia bans bitcoin again for the 100th time. Everybody is here to make money, but more money are to be made if we keep in mind only 10 mil of BTC exist. (If taken out 2 mil as lost forever)

If I could afford to buy 100 coins, the only thing I'd do is keep it in offline storage. Risk of trading them in exchanges is too high. See MtGox case. Lots of successful traders lost almost all because all the gains were kept in the exchange. There was this guy trading from 2010 and tripled his coins. Where are his coins now? In his wallet or into Mtgox Nirvana? Think of it.

You are the key. Price is the measurement of your holding patience.

Nothing changed for you to sell. Still 10 million bitcoins exists and a max of 21 mil. So if 10 or 21 mil people want it, they can only have 1. If you have 10, you're 10 times better.

I agree.

trading is like fighting in the arena. you can do it with risk even with a good trainer.

as long I keep my money in bitcoins I dont feel I have less value so I am not interested inn going to the fight arena, even other people saying I could make money going into the ring.

agree completely

[TERA]

Oh not this topic again. The 'evil traders' - I see it in every market - not just crypto.

OP is begging everyone to buy, hold, and not sell, so that we can artificially maintain a fragile price that was inflated by traders to begin with. Am I missing something?

Can you draw a chart of what bitcoin would look like if there were no evil traders?  (hint: I think the price would be at least 90% less).

What is next OP, are you going people to stop using bitcoin as a payment network and stop buying merchandise and ask the merchants to stop using bitpay and just hoard their bitcoins too? What about miners - are you going to ask them all to hold rather than paying down any of their mining investment? 

I guess we just want to treat bitcoin like a ponzi scheme, eh? I'm not saying bitcoin is a ponzi but what you are asking us to do is. Let's only put money in, and we can't take any money out, because it might cause a collapse.

OP is in fear. He sees the collapse happening already. Even though he's not a trader, deep down he see the 50/200 cross on the chart and know's instinctively what it means.

This is an impossible request. You are not going to get all of 10,000s of bitcoin users to partcipate in a conspiracy together to do some sort of float lockdown play. It is too big now.