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Author Topic: What happens when major banks become supernodes?  (Read 1877 times)
Swordsoffreedom
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June 19, 2014, 11:52:31 PM
 #21

If a bank runs a supernode they will charge people to use it. How, I don't know, but they will find a way.

Probably a transmission charge although I guess they could call it a Transaction Fee since Bitcoin uses those
That or a storage fee if you don't have enough Bitcoins in your account lol.

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ShakyhandsBTCer
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June 20, 2014, 03:25:46 AM
 #22

If a bank runs a supernode they will charge people to use it. How, I don't know, but they will find a way.

Probably a transmission charge although I guess they could call it a Transaction Fee since Bitcoin uses those
That or a storage fee if you don't have enough Bitcoins in your account lol.
They could potentially make you send an output to their address in order for them to relay their TX.

This would actually be a good idea to incentive people to running nodes, especially when bitcoin starts to process more TX per second
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June 20, 2014, 06:47:53 AM
 #23

People keep saying 'supernode' as if it's an actual technical designation in bitcoin. It's not.

It's a social construct created on these forums about 2 years ago.

A person could become a supernode by controlling a large amount of bitcoin as the main designation, and secondarily transacting as a trade conduit.
Swordsoffreedom
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June 20, 2014, 07:02:19 AM
Last edit: June 20, 2014, 07:14:17 AM by Swordsoffreedom
 #24

If a bank runs a supernode they will charge people to use it. How, I don't know, but they will find a way.

Probably a transmission charge although I guess they could call it a Transaction Fee since Bitcoin uses those
That or a storage fee if you don't have enough Bitcoins in your account lol.
They could potentially make you send an output to their address in order for them to relay their TX.

This would actually be a good idea to incentive people to running nodes, especially when bitcoin starts to process more TX per second

Hmm a deposit address that takes a fee wouldn't that just be the banks version of Bitcoin QT/Core and the fee is added on top whenever you use their service.

Your right that would work send a transaction and the fee is already added onto the banks client before it ever sees the blockchain.

@ Este true there is no such thing as a super node but I guess the proper term is Highly centralized nodes people just like to make it sound simpler.

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June 20, 2014, 05:21:50 PM
 #25

Will this be a good thing?  Adapt and survive right?
I dont like the sound of it lol
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June 22, 2014, 04:09:04 PM
 #26

I established the theory of Bitcoin Supernode early 2013. The current introduction to the topic can be found in another forum, quoted below:

Quote
My dearest readers,

BITCOIN SUPERNODE - THE NORMATIVE THREAD aims to foresee the development of the socioeconomic Bitcoin network, discuss it, and guide the development with actionable suggestions that would interfere with the natural course of affairs as little as possible while bringing as many benefits as possible to both those who take part in a way or another and those who do not.


Background

Bitcoin economy consists of bitcoin holders and interactions between them. There are currently 2 million bitcoin holders who hold on average 6,000 mBTC (median 70 mBTC). About 790 of them have bitcoin holdings valued at least $1 million.

Rather large percentage of such large holders are bitcoin enthusiasts who also largely share a liberty-loving ("liberal", "libertarian", "anti-statist", ..) worldview. They are proficient in technology, highly educated and civil. At this point they tend to be male with age distribution centered around 30-35, which is not important per se, but nevertheless a fact.

The concentration of financial means in the hands of the people described above in a networked environment is a potentially explosive thing. Until now it has not been witnessed in a large scale because of the following factors:
- Large concentrations of bitcoins have been in the hands of earliest adopters, who are generally younger with less interest/experience/contacts/whatever in societal matters than the current profile of holders.
- The number of people whose bitcoin stash has been worth any serious old world money was negligible prior to 2013.
- There has been more uncertainty about Bitcoin's future, and the scenario of its ultimate takeover has been shared with very few people and even they may have given it a low probability of success.
- Many have been lulled into thinking that the Bitcoin Foundation is the way to further this kind of mindset.

The growth from 1 user to 2 million users in 5.1 years has meant 17.2x yearly increase. Meanwhile bitcoin price has risen on average 12.6x yearly. The market cap has grown from nothing to about $10 billion. The fiat value of a mean holding exploded in 2013 and is already $5,000. (I have a paid analyst who is currently compiling and verifying these figures.) All these can likely be modelled with exponential function albeit with considerable variation from the trend. [I cannot currently expound the dynamics why, but] Bitcoin's self-similarity suggests that the trends stay intact until there is no more new entrants, or a major event interrupts the system.

Staying in the trendline channel, the price of 1 mBTC is expected to reach $3-$13 in 2014. The number of users would be 10-30 million. The number of liberty-loving people who have at least $1M in bitcoins + other assets and capabilities would number in thousands. (This estimate does not count all large holders, only the ones that fulfill the criteria, which is - less the actual holdings - pretty much the same criteria I use when inviting people to this forum.)

At this point, and especially zooming forward to the end of 2014, 2015 and 2016, interaction between these holders, many of which already have connections between each other, will inevitably increase. The aim of the Supernode Network is to facilitate this interaction and, in a sense, to "regulate" it. At present the Bitcoin world is a jungle, where everybody has had to learn the hard way. I am all for learning the realities of this world, but now our combined effort could make the world a more difficult place for scammers and rogue and organized thiefs alike. Collecting and publishing the best practices, having some old world resources (media, lawyers) at our pay, and doing business among ourselves with the old-fashioned way of personal guarantees would go a long way of making this jungle a wild west - a place of liberty, opportunity or refuge, whichever way you like it.

By "Supernode" I mean a person, or person-centric organization, where the person possesses the willingness, knowledge, time and means (=bitcoins) to effectively participate in the mind-blowing transition that is ongoing and ahead of us. I would add that to qualify as a supernode, you should be fearless of adversity and manage your risks so that you can face the total defeat of all crypto (or prospect of it) without losing heart or your ability to function.

There is a rather widely held misunderstanding that Bitcoin network technically has or could have some kind of supernodes. It does not. Network nodes are equal. Some altcoins have masternodes and also have borrowed the term "supernode" for a technical meaning. But in Bitcoin context, the Supernode is a socio-economical construct bolded above.

In the strict sense banks cannot be Supernodes even if they become major power centers, because Supernode is defined as being the opposite force to the legacy system. So the word conveys not only the extent of resources, but also the intent to use them for the furtherance of the liberation of mankind in the cryptoworld context.

@Este Nuno: My Supernode was reactivated in January in the II Supernode General Meeting in Tallinn. Next weekend we are having the III Bitcoin Supernode Network Preparatory Meeting in Malla. There are delegates from Estonia, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Spain, U.S., Netherlands, France, South Africa, U.K., Latvia and Korea.

HIM TVA Dragon, AOK-GM, Emperor of the Earth, Creator of the World, King of Crypto Kingdom, Lord of Malla, AOD-GEN, SA-GEN5, Ministry of Plenty (Join NOW!), Professor of Economics and Theology, Ph.D, AM, Chairman, Treasurer, Founder, CEO, 3*MG-2, 82*OHK, NKP, WTF, FFF, etc(x3)
ShakyhandsBTCer
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June 29, 2014, 08:17:53 PM
 #27

I established the theory of Bitcoin Supernode early 2013. The current introduction to the topic can be found in another forum, quoted below:

Quote
My dearest readers,

BITCOIN SUPERNODE - THE NORMATIVE THREAD aims to foresee the development of the socioeconomic Bitcoin network, discuss it, and guide the development with actionable suggestions that would interfere with the natural course of affairs as little as possible while bringing as many benefits as possible to both those who take part in a way or another and those who do not.


Background

Bitcoin economy consists of bitcoin holders and interactions between them. There are currently 2 million bitcoin holders who hold on average 6,000 mBTC (median 70 mBTC). About 790 of them have bitcoin holdings valued at least $1 million.

Rather large percentage of such large holders are bitcoin enthusiasts who also largely share a liberty-loving ("liberal", "libertarian", "anti-statist", ..) worldview. They are proficient in technology, highly educated and civil. At this point they tend to be male with age distribution centered around 30-35, which is not important per se, but nevertheless a fact.

The concentration of financial means in the hands of the people described above in a networked environment is a potentially explosive thing. Until now it has not been witnessed in a large scale because of the following factors:
- Large concentrations of bitcoins have been in the hands of earliest adopters, who are generally younger with less interest/experience/contacts/whatever in societal matters than the current profile of holders.
- The number of people whose bitcoin stash has been worth any serious old world money was negligible prior to 2013.
- There has been more uncertainty about Bitcoin's future, and the scenario of its ultimate takeover has been shared with very few people and even they may have given it a low probability of success.
- Many have been lulled into thinking that the Bitcoin Foundation is the way to further this kind of mindset.

The growth from 1 user to 2 million users in 5.1 years has meant 17.2x yearly increase. Meanwhile bitcoin price has risen on average 12.6x yearly. The market cap has grown from nothing to about $10 billion. The fiat value of a mean holding exploded in 2013 and is already $5,000. (I have a paid analyst who is currently compiling and verifying these figures.) All these can likely be modelled with exponential function albeit with considerable variation from the trend. [I cannot currently expound the dynamics why, but] Bitcoin's self-similarity suggests that the trends stay intact until there is no more new entrants, or a major event interrupts the system.

Staying in the trendline channel, the price of 1 mBTC is expected to reach $3-$13 in 2014. The number of users would be 10-30 million. The number of liberty-loving people who have at least $1M in bitcoins + other assets and capabilities would number in thousands. (This estimate does not count all large holders, only the ones that fulfill the criteria, which is - less the actual holdings - pretty much the same criteria I use when inviting people to this forum.)

At this point, and especially zooming forward to the end of 2014, 2015 and 2016, interaction between these holders, many of which already have connections between each other, will inevitably increase. The aim of the Supernode Network is to facilitate this interaction and, in a sense, to "regulate" it. At present the Bitcoin world is a jungle, where everybody has had to learn the hard way. I am all for learning the realities of this world, but now our combined effort could make the world a more difficult place for scammers and rogue and organized thiefs alike. Collecting and publishing the best practices, having some old world resources (media, lawyers) at our pay, and doing business among ourselves with the old-fashioned way of personal guarantees would go a long way of making this jungle a wild west - a place of liberty, opportunity or refuge, whichever way you like it.

By "Supernode" I mean a person, or person-centric organization, where the person possesses the willingness, knowledge, time and means (=bitcoins) to effectively participate in the mind-blowing transition that is ongoing and ahead of us. I would add that to qualify as a supernode, you should be fearless of adversity and manage your risks so that you can face the total defeat of all crypto (or prospect of it) without losing heart or your ability to function.

There is a rather widely held misunderstanding that Bitcoin network technically has or could have some kind of supernodes. It does not. Network nodes are equal. Some altcoins have masternodes and also have borrowed the term "supernode" for a technical meaning. But in Bitcoin context, the Supernode is a socio-economical construct bolded above.

In the strict sense banks cannot be Supernodes even if they become major power centers, because Supernode is defined as being the opposite force to the legacy system. So the word conveys not only the extent of resources, but also the intent to use them for the furtherance of the liberation of mankind in the cryptoworld context.

@Este Nuno: My Supernode was reactivated in January in the II Supernode General Meeting in Tallinn. Next weekend we are having the III Bitcoin Supernode Network Preparatory Meeting in Malla. There are delegates from Estonia, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Spain, U.S., Netherlands, France, South Africa, U.K., Latvia and Korea.
Some people think of supernodes as being a very well connected node (one that has a lot of connections to other nodes).

https://blockchain.info/hub-nodes
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