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Author Topic: Who decides the total number of coins?  (Read 1576 times)
rugrats
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August 10, 2014, 04:09:54 AM
 #21

was arbitratry for bitcoin also? i remember 21M come up from a math equation or some other calculation

Ethereum's Vitalik Buterin wrote about this last year.


Quote
Thus, all in all, the total number of currency units that will ever exist stands at 2,100,000,000,000,000: 2.1 quadrillion, or about 250.899. In choosing this figure, Satoshi was much luckier, or wiser, than most people realize. First of all, the number is considerably less than 264 – 1, the largest integer that can be stored in a standard integer on a computer – go above that, and the integers wrap around to zero like an odometer.

Second, however, there is another, lower threshold that the total satoshi count manages to fall just below: the largest possible integer that can be exactly represented in floating point format. Integers are not the only kind of number that computers can store; to handle decimal numbers, computers use a format known as floating point representation.

[...]

Notice how scientific notation allows you to express all of these values with reasonable accuracy despite their wildly varying scales. Floating point notation is essentially scientific notation in binary; when you store the number 9.625, your computer stores “1.001101 * 1011” (or rather, it stores 01000000 00100011 01000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000, which is the same thing in high-precision serialized form). In this high-precision form, the “significand” (the part that’s not the exponent) has 52 bits. What this means is that high-precision (more precisely, “double precision”) floating point numbers are good enough to exactly store integers up to 253, but not higher – if you go higher, you start lopping off digits at the end. Bitcoin’s 250.9 satoshis are, in exponential terms, just below this maximum.

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polynesia
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August 10, 2014, 04:21:41 AM
 #22

was arbitratry for bitcoin also? i remember 21M come up from a math equation or some other calculation

Ethereum's Vitalik Buterin wrote about this last year.


Quote
Thus, all in all, the total number of currency units that will ever exist stands at 2,100,000,000,000,000: 2.1 quadrillion, or about 250.899. In choosing this figure, Satoshi was much luckier, or wiser, than most people realize. First of all, the number is considerably less than 264 – 1, the largest integer that can be stored in a standard integer on a computer – go above that, and the integers wrap around to zero like an odometer.

Second, however, there is another, lower threshold that the total satoshi count manages to fall just below: the largest possible integer that can be exactly represented in floating point format. Integers are not the only kind of number that computers can store; to handle decimal numbers, computers use a format known as floating point representation.

[...]

Notice how scientific notation allows you to express all of these values with reasonable accuracy despite their wildly varying scales. Floating point notation is essentially scientific notation in binary; when you store the number 9.625, your computer stores “1.001101 * 1011” (or rather, it stores 01000000 00100011 01000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000, which is the same thing in high-precision serialized form). In this high-precision form, the “significand” (the part that’s not the exponent) has 52 bits. What this means is that high-precision (more precisely, “double precision”) floating point numbers are good enough to exactly store integers up to 253, but not higher – if you go higher, you start lopping off digits at the end. Bitcoin’s 250.9 satoshis are, in exponential terms, just below this maximum.

Very interesting. What about other altcoins (i can think of dogecoin) whose total number is above 21MM. Will they run into problems at some time?
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August 10, 2014, 07:47:41 PM
 #23

So as everyone keeps coming up with these new coins and new algorithms, how do they decide how many total coins to offer? I know LTC is exactly 4X as many BTC. Can anyone shed any light on this, or is it completely random and up to each individual coin maker? What are the possible positive and negative impacts on a somewhat random, finiate amount of coins?

You already had many good answers to you question. I also think it is important to mention that the "coin makers" (called devs) can chose to add a "premine" to the genesis block (the first block). The word premine is a bit misleading, since nothing is being mined, they have simply started with giving themselves x millions coins as a rewards for making a new revolutionary coins that everyone should invest in.
I don't know if "revolutionary" is really the proper term to use. Most alt coins provide no value that bitcoin cannot provide and their network is much less secure then the bitcoin network.

Even 1 or 2 of these altcoins has a brilliant idea/feature implemented, it will be worth it. And which is why speculators keep throwing money at altcoins.
If one of these altcoins has such a brilliant idea then what would stop it from being implemented into bitcoin? We have the testnet that allows people to test new features or anything they want so there is no real reason to have to use an altcoin to develop these new ideas. IMP people throw money at altcoins because they want to speculate on the price.
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August 11, 2014, 12:36:52 AM
 #24

If one of these altcoins has such a brilliant idea then what would stop it from being implemented into bitcoin? We have the testnet that allows people to test new features or anything they want so there is no real reason to have to use an altcoin to develop these new ideas. IMP people throw money at altcoins because they want to speculate on the price.

A person can force his idea to be implemented into bitcoin, if his idea initially doesn't find acceptance amongst developers. However, if he releases an altcoin, proves that people like his idea/feature, then it is more likely that these features would be integrated into bitcoin.
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August 11, 2014, 06:48:25 AM
 #25


Even 1 or 2 of these altcoins has a brilliant idea/feature implemented, it will be worth it. And which is why speculators keep throwing money at altcoins.

As long as it is not a clone that is although how we define altcoins can be tricky
Altcoins not based on bitcoin altcoins based on bitcoin
Coins that are not bitcoin lol.

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August 11, 2014, 09:09:18 AM
 #26

So as everyone keeps coming up with these new coins and new algorithms, how do they decide how many total coins to offer? I know LTC is exactly 4X as many BTC. Can anyone shed any light on this, or is it completely random and up to each individual coin maker? What are the possible positive and negative impacts on a somewhat random, finiate amount of coins?

You already had many good answers to you question. I also think it is important to mention that the "coin makers" (called devs) can chose to add a "premine" to the genesis block (the first block). The word premine is a bit misleading, since nothing is being mined, they have simply started with giving themselves x millions coins as a rewards for making a new revolutionary coins that everyone should invest in. 
I don't know if "revolutionary" is really the proper term to use. Most alt coins provide no value that bitcoin cannot provide and their network is much less secure then the bitcoin network. 

Even 1 or 2 of these altcoins has a brilliant idea/feature implemented, it will be worth it. And which is why speculators keep throwing money at altcoins.
If one of these altcoins has such a brilliant idea then what would stop it from being implemented into bitcoin? We have the testnet that allows people to test new features or anything they want so there is no real reason to have to use an altcoin to develop these new ideas. IMP people throw money at altcoins because they want to speculate on the price. 
Not all of alt coin has something new and just is the clone of existing protocol. The devs has premined a lot. Once the exchange launches this coin, they dump all the coins they have right away and grab a lot of profit.
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August 11, 2014, 06:01:41 PM
 #27

Not all of alt coin has something new and just is the clone of existing protocol. The devs has premined a lot. Once the exchange launches this coin, they dump all the coins they have right away and grab a lot of profit.

Which is what happens when people blindly invest in any new altcoin that springs up, in the hope of multiplying their money.
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