Uzbekistan

[Bruce Wagner]

What's the best and easiest way to get cash for Bitcoin in Uzbekistan? 

[LZ]

Why do you interested in a such remote place? I think you need to ask people from there.

[bit-numismatist]

What's the best and easiest way to get cash for Bitcoin in Uzbekistan? 

Why you interested in this and at the same time completely ignoring my request concerning brilliant translation of your site
bitcoinme.com into Russian made by russian community member m0Ray. 

[LZ]

Almost a month ago.

[bitcoinex]

What's the best and easiest way to get cash for Bitcoin in Uzbekistan?  

Probably:

Bitcoin -> "btcex.com" -> WM(R|Z) -> "WebMoneyTransfer" -> Bank Transfer

[Bruce Wagner]

Why do you interested in a such remote place? I think you need to ask people from there.

Unless I am mistaken, they get the same internet we do....  So this forum should reach them too.  

Why you interested in this and at the same time completely ignoring my request concerning brilliant translation of your site
bitcoinme.com into Russian made by russian community member m0Ray.  

I don't mean to be ignoring your request.  I am overwhelmed with work here, so I need to hire another assistant.  I'm thinking of hiring a "virtual online assistant" who lives there.   This would help me keep on top of the 3,000 projects on my plate.... including emails like yours (about the translation).   It would be cool if I could easily pay him (an assistant in Uzbekistan) using Bitcoin.

As per your generous offer to help translate the site...  The answer is YES!  Thank you!   I am working on moving the site to a better platform, which will allow the readers to easily select the language from a list of at least 13 languages.   ( Again, this is more work that my new assistant could be trained to do. )

If you would like to translate the site into your language, please do it!   Just email me the text, section-by-section, and as soon as we can... we will paste it in to the proper place.

Another benfit of the new platform:   It could be set up Wiki style....  So that ANYONE could improve on it.

Probably:

Bitcoin -> "btcex.com" -> WM(R|Z) -> "WebMoneyTransfer" -> Bank Transfer

Eeeee.  Sounds complicated.    Western Union costs $6, on the other hand.    We've gotta keep it fast and easy.    

[mpkomara]

http://brucewagner.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/employment-hiring-job-in-namangan-uzbekistan/  Alright, I give up, what are you doing hiring someone in Namangan, Uzbekistan?

[FreeMoney]

http://brucewagner.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/employment-hiring-job-in-namangan-uzbekistan/  Alright, I give up, what are you doing hiring someone in Namangan, Uzbekistan?

In the title it says Namangan, but it the post it says anywhere. Maybe he wants to pay in bitcoin to show how you can easily hire someone anywhere in the world using bitcoin?

[nickwit]

I've got this vague feeling...

... that if you're looking at westerners as your market for really radical, world-changing innovation, you're looking in the wrong place.

Bitcoin (or something like it) probably isn't going to take off somewhere that is already well-organised and (by the same token) repressive to attacks on the status quo. It's probably going to take off in the BRIC economies, or even further into the favela-zone.

Now, I don't know anything about Uzbekistan other than that it's a brutal regime propped up (as ever) by the west - the UK ambassador tried to whistle-blow a couple of years back, and got sacked and then smeared. However... if the local currency isn't that stable, then bitcoins might find more fertile ground to grow in than in the 1st / 2nd world.


As an aside, Bruce Sterling (who is probably the most perceptive futurologist we have on account of not earning a living telling people what the want to hear... said recently that the old 1st world, 2nd world no longer exists... and what we have is:

1st world - the world of international corporatised commerce.

2nd world - any kind of governance... old nation state stuff, UN etc

3rd world - the world of peer production. That's us.

4th world - the world where everything's fallen apart and they're tearing up the map


So.

We the 3rd world, are trying to create something to route around the hegemony of the 1st and 2nd (the relationship between which is entirely destructively parasitic - the 1st aims to destroy the 2nd... the 2nd thinks it's job is to be "1st-friendly" and is aiding it's own demise)...

... and the reason we're doing this is to protect ourselves from the vicissitudes of the 4th... which is what is going to increasingly happen to us as the 1st world erodes the 2nd.


You know - unless we unionise and become socialist. That's what we need to do to survive societally. Everything else (especially libertarianism (sorry)) is just pushing us towards becoming tenants to a 19th Century style aristocracy with private jets. The adoption of untaxable, untrackable currency will hasten the demise of 2) by decades. If bitcoin works, it will probably be the end of the nation-state. Time to start tearing up your pavements and pulling down your street-lighting people. Time to start depending on local, privately-owned police-forces who rapidly become walmartified, then bought by The Chinese.

So - getting bitcoin to work in a 4th world economy (which Uzbekistan may or may not be) probably isn't too far off the relevance-radar.

[Bruce Wagner]

Bitcoin -> "btcex.com" -> WM(R|Z) -> "WebMoneyTransfer" -> Bank Transfer

OBVIOUSLY.... No one I know will have anything to do with btcex.com any more.   Everyone I know is boycotting it and spreading the word about it's ill intentions, statements, and actions attacking the Bitcoin Community.

[orcy]

OBVIOUSLY.... No one I know will have anything to do with btcex.com any more.   Everyone I know is boycotting it and spreading the word about it's ill intentions, statements, and actions attacking the Bitcoin Community.

I don't think that btcex.com owner is the pure evil for bitcoin community. You blame him that he is the guy that started the DDOS of his competitor in order to get more customers to his own exchange, but this does not look so to me.  For me it looks like he was care about what he think better for bitcoin economics rather than his own profit.

From what I can see from his posts:

• He is almost the only guy in russian community that maintains a kind of bitcoin economical activity. He offers his coins to translate wiki pages to russian language, for writing scripts, discuss developing any other services.
  
• It does not look like he concerns very much about the profitability of his exchange service.  Most rates are 0 and he also encourage other people to start their own exchange services.
  

I decided for myself that I will continue using his service as long as it suits my needs.

[ploum]

It does not look like he concerns very much about the profitability of his exchange service.  Most rates are 0 and he also encourage other people to start their own exchange services.

That's absolutely not the experience I had. My complains are: 10 days between my IBAN payment and the money showing on my account (And they can't even blame the bank because they acknowledged receiving the money after 5 days), an insane fee to enter the system, a fee for each transaction proposed (even if canceled afterward) (*) and a fee for each transaction finally done.

And of course this all happened to me the day before the DDOS so, when I heard about the DDOS, I bought all BTC I could (at a very bad rate) to quit btcex, figuring that nobody will do business with them anymore. I still have to recover from this lost.

I must add, to be perfectly fair, that they replied to my mails (even if it takes some times) and that it looks like they operate that "honestly". Anyway, if it is proven that they are involved in the DDOS against mtgox and bitmarket, it means that they are ready to do illegal stuffs, which should make anybody highly uncomfortable about using their services.


(*) the fee for each transaction proposed was removed after I left btcex because it was really insane. I was trying to understand their UI, adding proposals and canceling them when I realized that, each time, I was loosing money.

[orcy]

(*) the fee for each transaction proposed was removed after I left btcex because it was really insane. I was trying to understand their UI, adding proposals and canceling them when I realized that, each time, I was loosing money.

As I can see in my payments history all payments (except the last one) were without any fees (I was paying Yandex.money to purchase bitcoins). It was the easiest way to get any bitcoins and there was only Yandex.money transaction fee for this chain of payments.

But indeed there are some new fees were introduced lately. As you described the transaction fee, I would agree that it looks terrible. Maybe I am just lucky that I had no bad experience with the service, thanks for warning. It probably would be better for all to have a fees that will be enough to pay for hosting and time spent on keep the service running.

There is no evidence that DDOS was supported by btcex, although he publicly announced that he would like this to happen (e.g. if community will approve by donating it). As we know community did not approve BTW when community approves, DDOS does look so unethically for some people (like I heard some was saying that DDOSing Mastercard for blocking Wikileaks donations was ok).

However there is a point in this story. In a real world all stock exchange have some kind of regulations from authorities and suspicious actions can be investigated. It is not the case in the anonymous virtual currency world. If mtgox owner or any of his friends would like to make additional profit from trades on his service, he might have some advantage as the owner of the service.  As long as there will be no evidences, we will have to live with that.

[The Script]

(*) the fee for each transaction proposed was removed after I left btcex because it was really insane. I was trying to understand their UI, adding proposals and canceling them when I realized that, each time, I was loosing money.

As I can see in my payments history all payments (except the last one) were without any fees (I was paying Yandex.money to purchase bitcoins). It was the easiest way to get any bitcoins and there was only Yandex.money transaction fee for this chain of payments.

But indeed there are some new fees were introduced lately. As you described the transaction fee, I would agree that it looks terrible. Maybe I am just lucky that I had no bad experience with the service, thanks for warning. It probably would be better for all to have a fees that will be enough to pay for hosting and time spent on keep the service running.

There is no evidence that DDOS was supported by btcex, although he publicly announced that he would like this to happen (e.g. if community will approve by donating it). As we know community did not approve BTW when community approves, DDOS does look so unethically for some people (like I heard some was saying that DDOSing Mastercard for blocking Wikileaks donations was ok).

However there is a point in this story. In a real world all stock exchange have some kind of regulations from authorities and suspicious actions can be investigated. It is not the case in the anonymous virtual currency world. If mtgox owner or any of his friends would like to make additional profit from trades on his service, he might have some advantage as the owner of the service.  As long as there will be no evidences, we will have to live with that.

But Btcex putting himself out of business by advocating (even if he didn't do it himself) DDoS attacks on Mt. Gox only makes us more dependent on Mt. Gox.  Now it sounds like he is still in business so maybe this extreme case isn't going to happen, but his attitude and suggestion to attack Mt. Gox was not favorably received by most of the community and has definitely lost him customers.  The more exchanges the better, so I prefer if the smaller exchanges don't commit reputational suicide by bad service and unethical behavior.

[ploum]

There is no evidence that DDOS was supported by btcex, although he publicly announced that he would like this to happen (e.g. if community will approve by donating it). As we know community did not approve BTW when community approves, DDOS does look so unethically for some people (like I heard some was saying that DDOSing Mastercard for blocking Wikileaks donations was ok).

From my moral point of view, DDOS is always unethical because it causes harms to other's properties.

But my moral is out of scope here: it is illegal and any illegal activity could hurt the whole community.

So if you mix : it's illegal *and* it does hurt, I really don't see how anybody with common sense would see that as acceptable.