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Author Topic: Autonomous machines and bitcoin  (Read 972 times)
dreamdust (OP)
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August 17, 2014, 09:24:46 PM
 #1

Hi there! This is my first post here but I've been lurking since 2012 and hardly go a day without checking the forum. I got to thinking about something today that I don't usually see around here but I think could be interesting to talk about - namely the consequences of bitcoin enabling non-humans to be able to own money. So I figure, why not.

I've heard it discussed previously in the context of autonomous taxis in a futuristic scenario. In this scenario, image-processing is good enough as to let taxis be controlled safely around the streets by a computer, enabling driverless taxis everywhere. These taxis could also have their own bitcoin accounts, getting paid, refueling themselves wherever there is a need and replacing bad parts. This seems like a reasonable scenario to me - probably the technology is within reach, and every economically profitable solution will eventually be realized (just as bitcoin).

This has also been discussed in the context of drones, taking orders between two persons, going from one to the other delivering an item, in a decentralized manner. These drones could possibly be purchaseable by anyone, requiring only an adress to which to send the surplus money (if any such would be taken, ideally such a drone or taxi could take 0 extra profit and just exist, repairing and refueling itself when necessary and nothing more).

There scenarios are exiting to me and very thrilling, but I wonder what the more general traits of this is. The real difference here from before is that the machine itself has the ability to pay (and accept payments) for itself according to a previously defined manner. That means that the machine is employing people, in a manner which could be independent of another human. This is technologically a small step, but the concept of being employed by a machine is frightening to people, and gives the illusion of a much more advanced AI than what we've previously seen. Machines could be programmed to pay people for protection, to be connected to cameras detecting intent to trick the machine, to use various ways of withholding money until it made sure that is wasn't going to be tricked. When the program has been worked-around so to say, if anyone would try to trick the machine - it is basically powerless. However, just a few protective measures, (such as paying armed guards, scanning people for intent to trick or scam, etc.) could probably give a good level of protection - enabling the machne to do quite a lot for itself. This could also wake many legal questions, if such an autonomous machine does a crime - for example if the drone decides to deliver a drug, or pay someone to shoot someone else, or if a taxi runs someone over, is the creator to be held liable? Even if this result is not easy to determine from the code? What if the creator is another machine? The more power the machine has, the more difficult this seems to answer.

A physical machine such as a drone or a taxi, can easily be programmed to generate a bitcoin adress and broadcast it to the creator, enabling him/her to fill it with the necessary starting budget - keeping the newly generated private key secret within the computer and really giving the machine a high degree of autonomy, having full control of its own money and acting in a preprogrammed defensive manner. Nowhere but in the bits of the machine will the private key be. However, for online services this doesn't seem as easy. For example, if I wanted to host a website which interacted with people in a way separate from me, I could have my website create a bitcoin adress, but where would I save the private key? Here, I would be able to get full access to the key - giving this venture a much less computer-controlled-money character and more of a computer-aided-money one. What if it could encrypt the private key? Then where would it save that key? In some way, it is necessary to separate the possibility of a person to be able to use the wallet. The program should have great restrictions to what can be changed once it is started, and what knowledge of it can be obtained with ease. Sure, if anyone wanted to profit they could program the program to send btc to your adress once it reached some threshold, but if they at any time can control the wallet - the machine will lose its power, and instead of being its own master, employing people, it will be something that only automatizes your doings. That the macine is the sole owner of the private key seems essential. What are your thoughts on this? Physical processes such as taxis are a powerful idea, but just as with bitcoin - if things exist in the virtual, they are limitless and far more powerful. It seems hard to create processes online which have total autonomy. Any thoughts? Love from Sweden Grin
Kieran Bass
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August 17, 2014, 09:26:40 PM
 #2

Ambitious project I must say I would like to see this getting developed though a lot of security issues to consider.
apepoof
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August 17, 2014, 09:30:18 PM
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Very ambitious... you'd need a serious background in AI in my opinion for this to be a success... good luck if you're actually tackling this.

Lethn
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August 17, 2014, 09:37:57 PM
Last edit: August 17, 2014, 09:52:42 PM by Lethn
 #4

I think this sounds entirely possible but it's also the kind of technology I despise, there's nothing that sounds worse to me than a machine programmed by somebody to run your life, I would do everything to break it, we already have prototype driverless cars and houses that operate themselves.
JohnFromWIT
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August 17, 2014, 10:13:08 PM
 #5

Never thought about a situation where machines are paying people for work.
That opens up all kind of questions.
Would be cool to see it in work of fiction.
Not sure if it I want to see it in real life though.

silversurfer1958
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August 18, 2014, 06:29:43 AM
 #6

Have a look on Youtube for    'the venus project'

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