How am I saving by sending via Bitcoin?

[JerryCurlzzz]

the goal is not to "sell and buy" btcs.. the project is aimed to use bitcoin like money, so if you send 1 bitcoin to your friend on another country, he will receive that bitcoin at almost cero fees and he will spend that bitcoin buying goods, not selling it for fiat.

It doesn't have to be limited to using BTC as "a currency." Ideally, BTC could be used to transfer great amounts of value -- even if that means directly cashing out to fiat on the other end.

[ChuckBuck]

If you're based in Canada, why don't you just buy from one of the Canadian exchanges, withdraw BTCs to Blockchain.info wallet, then send to the other party in the Philippines Blockchain.info wallet for pennies?

http://howtobuybitcoins.info/ca.html

If you buy direct from an exchange, depending on the fees, it should potentially be much lower than that premium you paid to that seller on LocalBitcoins.

[Devilish]

I paid CAD $500 for those BTC, by the time it arrived in BlockChain wallet, it shows up as $440.84.

- snip -

So where is the $20-$60 CAD gone

- snip -

Am I wrong in thinking that I just kind of "lost" some dollars? or am I confusing the currency exchange?

It looks to me like you chose a bitcoin seller on localbitcoins that was charging a 12% fee.  That's a rather high fee.  I wouldn't have bought from them.  I'd have looked for someone that was willing to sell cheaper.

If you aren't in a hurry, you're better off putting up your own ad on localbitcoins.  Then you get to charge the fee on someone else that is in a hurry to sell their bitcoins. As an example, you might have put up an ad to buy 500 CAD worth of bitcoins and charge a 5% fee.  This would have resulted in you receiving 520 CAD worth of bitcoins for your 500 CAD.

Thanks again Danny!
Could you please let me know how I can figure out what his fees were and how you were able to deduce that he charged 12%? Sorry, I'm not just a BTC newb, but also a birdbrain in math.

This ad thing makes so much sense, I should have done it this time around just like you recommended the first time!

[minerpumpkin]

Fees only apply when trading Bitcoin for FIAT or using some service. If everyone was using Bitcoin to begin with, there would be no need to exchange it for FIAT, and therefore it could be transferred from person to person without additional fees. That's the beauty!

[Devilish]

If you're based in Canada, why don't you just buy from one of the Canadian exchanges, withdraw BTCs to Blockchain.info wallet, then send to the other party in the Philippines Blockchain.info wallet for pennies?

http://howtobuybitcoins.info/ca.html

If you buy direct from an exchange, depending on the fees, it should potentially be much lower than that premium you paid to that seller on LocalBitcoins.

I didn't even know this existed!!
I went to LocalBitcoins because Canadian banks have something called "Email Money Transfer" where I can simply email the money to the "seller". If I can find an exchange in Toronto who has Email Money Transfer, I'm doing that moving forward and putting an ad on LocalBitcoins!!

Thanks soo much ChuckBuck!

[DannyHamilton]

Could you please let me know how I can figure out what his fees were and how you were able to deduce that he charged 12%? Sorry, I'm not just a BTC newb, but also a birdbrain in math.

You paid 500 and received 440.84 worth.

500 - 440.84 = 59.16

That means that he collected 59.16 on a 500 transaction.

59.16 / 500 = 0.11832

Multiply by 100 to get from a decimal to a percent:

0.11832 = 11.832%

Round off since localbitcoin advertisers typically set their costs to something a bit less specific than .832 and a small amount of the variation could have been due to changes in exchange rates.

11.832% rounds off to 12%

[Devilish]

Could you please let me know how I can figure out what his fees were and how you were able to deduce that he charged 12%? Sorry, I'm not just a BTC newb, but also a birdbrain in math.

You paid 500 and received 440.84 worth.

500 - 440.84 = 59.16

That means that he collected 59.16 on a 500 transaction.

59.16 / 500 = 0.11832

Multiply by 100 to get from a decimal to a percent:

0.11832 = 11.832%

Round off since localbitcoin advertisers typically set their costs to something a bit less specific than .832 and a small amount of the variation could have been due to changes in exchange rates.

11.832% rounds off to 12%

Thanks so much for the clarification Danny!
Is there someplace where the advertiser shows how much his fees are going to be? I mean how could I have known before I got into the trade?

[DannyHamilton]

Is there someplace where the advertiser shows how much his fees are going to be?

Some advertisers will list their costs in their advertisement.  Many don't.  Especially those that have excessively high costs.

I mean how could I have known before I got into the trade?

Use Google search to determine what the current exchange rate is at the time that you want to make the exchange.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=1+BTC+in+CAD

Then see what the ad says the seller is charging per bitcoin.

Subtract the two prices to figure out how much profit the seller is getting if he sells 1 BTC.

Divide the Google indicated exchange rate by the 1 BTC calculated profit to determine what percent the seller is charging.

Here's an example:

• If I look at Google right now, I see that the current exchange rate is 523.58 CAD per BTC
• Looking at localbitcoins, I see a user with the ID bullionxpress an advertiser in Toronto advertising 554.38 CAD / BTC right now.
• 554.38 - 523.58 = 30.80, so for each bitcoin sold, he is taking a profit of 30.80 CAD
• 30.80 / 523.58 = 0.0588, so it looks like he is getting a profit somewhere around 5.5% or 6% for the bitcoins

[Devilish]

Is there someplace where the advertiser shows how much his fees are going to be?

Some advertisers will list their costs in their advertisement.  Many don't.  Especially those that have excessively high costs.

I mean how could I have known before I got into the trade?

Use Google search to determine what the current exchange rate is at the time that you want to make the exchange.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=1+BTC+in+CAD

Then see what the ad says the seller is charging per bitcoin.

Subtract the two prices to figure out how much profit the seller is getting if he sells 1 BTC.

Divide the Google indicated exchange rate by the 1 BTC calculated profit to determine what percent the seller is charging.

Here's an example:

• If I look at Google right now, I see that the current exchange rate is 523.58 CAD per BTC
• Looking at localbitcoins, I see a user with the ID bullionxpress an advertiser in Toronto advertising 554.38 CAD / BTC right now.
• 554.38 - 523.58 = 30.80, so for each bitcoin sold, he is taking a profit of 30.80 CAD
• 30.80 / 523.58 = 0.0588, so it looks like he is getting a profit somewhere around 5.5% or 6% for the bitcoins

Wow thanks so much again Danny! Much much much appreciated.

• Is Google accurate with it though? I just checked another website called preev.com and their price is 525.6CAD and Google's is 516.00CAD
• Also, if I buy BTC from an exchange like Vaultofsatoshi.com, would I be looking at pricing similar to 525CAD or 516CAD?

Thanks again! This is invaluable to me.

[odolvlobo]

Wow thanks so much again Danny! Much much much appreciated.

• Is Google accurate with it though? I just checked another website called preev.com and their price is 525.6CAD and Google's is 516.00CAD
• Also, if I buy BTC from an exchange like Vaultofsatoshi.com, would I be looking at pricing similar to 525CAD or 516CAD?

There is no single exchange rate. It is different on every exchange. I use the Bitstamp rate as a reference. The sellers on LocalBitcoins  can base their rates off of any of the exchanges or even a combination of exchanges. In the end it doesn't matter. Look at the rate they are quoting and compare it to Preev or Bitstamp to get an idea of the premium.

[Nagato4]

Google uses the real-time price feed from Coinbase https://www.google.com/intl/en/googlefinance/disclaimer/, while Preev uses the 24-hour trade volume weighted average price data from multiple markets.

So, the prices shown can/should be different.

[DannyHamilton]

Google uses the real-time price feed from Coinbase https://www.google.com/intl/en/googlefinance/disclaimer/, while Preev uses the 24-hour trade volume weighted average price data from multiple markets.

So, the prices shown can/should be different.

Does anyone know where blockchain.info gets their CAD prices?  Since the OP is using a blockchain.info wallet, that's the exchange rate he's most interested in.

[Brewins]

Not all countries have good and nice banking system that allows you to send money easily and with low fee. In some countries, it might take too long, or you might pay too many taxes, at the point of it being unpracticable.

Example: Countries under economic sanctions(Iran, etc), some african countries(ex: Ghana), I guess China maybe and other countries with too much state influence over economy.

[Newar]

If you buy on a Canadian exchange you don't necessarily need to transfer to your own wallet. Have the receiver open an account on one of the Philippines exchanges and send directly there from the Canadian exchange. Then you convert there.

The Pilipinas is helpful: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27736.0

And what was posted earlier http://howtobuybitcoins.info/ph.html

Does anyone know where blockchain.info gets their CAD prices?  [...]

To me it looks like they use the price from their markets page and use an forex API; something like https://openexchangerates.org/documentation

It's what bitcoinaverage.com does for the currencies that have no exchanges.

[Devilish]

Thanks so much guys!
I gotta say, this has to be one of the most helpful forums I have been to in forever!

I'll go with the Blockchain rates. I'm just hoping that I can buy bitcoins for less at the Vault than at LocalBitcoins. Didn't see how I got ripped off there!

To the user who mentioned exchange to exchange, I wouldn't mind it... but the receivers are a lot more clueless than I am, and I've been able to get them on board with blockchain with "frequent training calls", lol

To the user who kindly provided the Philippines thread - I'm not filipino so I can't really understand the conversation there But thanks so much!