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Author Topic: So I Went To The Beer Store...  (Read 1348 times)
Nxtblg (OP)
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September 14, 2014, 12:27:42 AM
 #1

More than a month ago, I bought one of the Royal Canadian Mint's "$50 for $50" coins. Essentially, this series and its likesake are marketing gimmicks to induce Canadians like myself into buying the Royal Canadian Mint's more premium offerings. The gimmick works like this: you order one of these coins and you pay the legal-tender value: no tax, and the Mint pays the shipping cost. Of course, the intrinsic value of each coin is way below the face value; none of them are loss leaders. The Mint's legislature-granted privilege of seigniorage ensures that the net profit margin on each coin is nice and fat.

But from the standpoint of the consumer, it's a pretty enticing deal. Because each of these coins are legal tender, each of them in effect comes with a money-back guarantee that's executed by any branch of any bank in Canada. The banks have to take 'em at face value because they are legal tender.

That's one of the reasons I said "what the hail" and bought one. But a week after mine arrived, I got an idea...

The Secret Behind Fiat: Legal Tender Plus Force Of Habit

Yes, fiat has a huge advantage because it's legal tender. But it has another huge advantage: people are used to dealing in it. Even if they're convinced that fiat is the Devil, a large majority will stick with the devil they know.

This is the secret behind the network effect: people stick to what they know out of habit. Some visionaries will jump at a better solution once they see it and learn about it. But the large majority won't, simply because the familiar has the advantage of being predictable. Amongst ordinary folks, that predictability is a powerful inducement to sticking with the "old ball and chain."

This barrier, although formidable, is not insuperable. But the trick is, in my humble opinion, to gently ease or nudge people out of ordinary fiat-and-credit. Once they get used to the idea that there are other ways to accept payment, then their minds will slowly open to a better alternative. But as long as they're stuck in the familiar old rut, they won't.

Beer Expedition: Boy, Was I Close!

So...earlier tonight, I loaded up the empties and brought along enough Canadian fiat to the Beer Store that's run by the Government of Ontario. (Yeah, Canada's that kinda place: at least, many provinces of Canada are.) But, I also brought that $50 coin along. Since I'm a known drunkard valuable regular, I I thought I had a serious shot at using that $50 coin to pay for my suds. I had my patter all prepared: "$50"; "Royal Canadian Mint"; "legal tender", etc. All cunningly crafted to push that magic button in we Canucks' minds: "In co-operation with the Government of Canada..." Wink

And I was close! The clerk I handed it to did hesitate, but he was well on his way to letting me spend the thing. He asked a senior colleague (de facto manageress), who thumbs-downed it, but the outcome was teetering on the edge for a time. Had I been lucky, I could have bragged about using a non-standard albeit legal tender means of payment instead of fiat or credit card to Buy Beer. From a government-owned chain, no less.

Nudging Them Softly With My Song

Okay: I admit that I came (and come) across as an evangelist for the Royal Canadian Mint. But with people stuck in the rut of habit, you have to start somewhere. It's either this or something that's so recognizable that it might as well be currency - like a Starbucks or Wal-Mart gift card. Or, even, Canadian Tire money

In marketing lingo, what I tried tonight is called "qualifying." The idea is, to get a list of people who either bite for a mainstream-compatible entry-point or at least warm up to the idea of transacting in an unfamiliar way. Some, like that senior employee at the Beer Store I went to, will simply thumbs-down. People like that are basically destined to be late adopters: they like staying in the "tried and true" rut. But some others are more open-minded, although they do need to be subtly nudged over time towards accepting cryptocurrency. The latter, though, make for a nice "qualified" list of people for more explicit evangelization at the appropriate moment.

I know that my little experiment is very weak sauce compared to Evangelism 1.0, but it is a different way to swing people around to accepting cryptos as the mainstream's future. It advantage is that it has a shot at slowly swinging around people who prefer the safety of the familiar. People who cling to any FUD because what the FUD really tells them is that they're smart when they stick to their old familiar habits.

Presented for your inspection...and if you don't mind, I'm starting to get thirsty. Grin

 






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adamstgBit
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September 14, 2014, 12:50:21 AM
 #2

not sure i understand exactly what the point about bitcoin in this story is.

we should subtly nudge and hint about bitcoin but not go into any detail, when introducing it to someone?

Bitcoinpro
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September 14, 2014, 01:47:53 AM
 #3

Its a reasonable story, I'm wondering what was wrong with the fesh mint coins though

maybe the flavor was to strong.

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Verse
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September 14, 2014, 01:57:51 AM
 #4

So you're saying 'special' fiat is not accepted at non-bank government institutions in Kanadia? That would be illegal in the U.S. I think. I suspect it's illegal in your "country" as well. You should have threatened to call the polic... err, mounties on them.

I don't quite understand the point of your story. Are you suggesting we try Bitcoin everywhere to see where it sticks? If this strategy doesn't work with fiat (as in your case) then I would suspect education is all you can force on anyone; especially when the law does not force the other party to accept Bitcoin to settle debts.
adamstgBit
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September 14, 2014, 02:16:47 AM
Last edit: September 14, 2014, 02:44:01 AM by adamstgBit
 #5

So you're saying 'special' fiat is not accepted at non-bank government institutions in Kanadia? That would be illegal in the U.S. I think. I suspect it's illegal in your "country" as well. You should have threatened to call the polic... err, mounties on them.

I don't quite understand the point of your story. Are you suggesting we try Bitcoin everywhere to see where it sticks? If this strategy doesn't work with fiat (as in your case) then I would suspect education is all you can force on anyone; especially when the law does not force the other party to accept Bitcoin to settle debts.

Its called Canada, Yes it is a country no need for the " ", and yes we have police.

for future reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV_041oYDjg

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September 14, 2014, 02:32:55 AM
 #6

http://www.mint.ca/store/coin/coin-prod1930018

Its legitimate seems like a great way to invest in some silver too and still get the legal tender value

next time you try to spend, get out the video you could end up getting a nice little settlement

(ie after they toss you out on the pavement)

make sure you try it on a large chain I doubt Joe's fish and chip shop is going to be able to

make any reasonable settlement offer without going bankrupt, you will probably go back the

next day and it will be John or Dave's fish an chip shop.

But really are stores supposed to take these coins  Cheesy

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MGGB
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September 14, 2014, 03:02:39 AM
 #7

http://www.mint.ca/store/coin/coin-prod1930018

Its legitimate seems like a great way to invest in some silver too and still get the legal tender value

next time you try to spend, get out the video you could end up getting a nice little settlement

(ie after they toss you out on the pavement)

make sure you try it on a large chain I doubt Joe's fish and chip shop is going to be able to

make any reasonable settlement offer without going bankrupt, you will probably go back the

next day and it will be John or Dave's fish an chip shop.

But really are stores supposed to take these coins  Cheesy

I have bought a few of these coins , these are legal tender, but there is no law saying stores have to except them(most will not!), the Mint says,

"All coins manufactured by the Mint are legal tender. However, unlike Canadian circulation coins, collector coins are non-circulating legal tender (NCLT). As such, these coins are not intended for daily commercial transactions and accepting them as payment or for redemption is at the discretion of businesses and financial institutions."

 I have read it is quite difficult to turn them back into regular fiat, even at the bank it can take up to six months Huh  But for that reason, I think they are great for long term savings, and at almost 16 g's if the price of silver goes up they could be worth more than 50 someday!
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September 14, 2014, 03:03:25 AM
 #8

Its called Canada, Yes it is a country no need for the " ", and yes we have police.

for future reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMxGVfk09lU
I respectfully disagree.


Its legitimate seems like a great way to invest in some silver too and still get the legal tender value
Lets be real. Nobody's going to come after you for melting down some hard currency, unless you physically have tons of it. However your proposed investment costs CAD 50 for around (currently) CAD 10.40 worth of fine silver (15.87 grams 99.9% fine). Silver would have to increase in price by 500% in order for you to break even on melting these coins. A 600% increase from current silver prices would only net you 20% ROI. Of course you would only melt them if the price rose above face, so the only risk you run is inflation/everyone realizing that Kanadia does not truly exist.

This 'investment strategy' only serves to mitigate risk. Is there such a significant risk in silver at $20/oz to warrant this much overhead? I'd argue no. Rare metals increase in value. If you want risk-free returns then buy (first-world) government bonds. Huge percentage increases in silver prices are not unheard of, but your percentage gains will be marginal because you only have 20% of face as a base asset.

I must admit though, this is an intriguing concept and I don't quite have the right framework to discuss it. I suspect that there are certain coins that are worthwhile buying by these standards, just not these.
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September 14, 2014, 05:19:41 AM
 #9

Its called Canada, Yes it is a country no need for the " ", and yes we have police.

for future reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMxGVfk09lU
I respectfully disagree.

Are you being sarcastic?

An economy based on endless growth is unsustainable.
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September 14, 2014, 06:13:41 AM
 #10

Its called Canada, Yes it is a country no need for the " ", and yes we have police.

for future reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV_041oYDjg



Actually "Canada" is merely a USA suburb with it's own immigration policies.


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September 14, 2014, 07:06:34 AM
 #11

All the jokes about Canada on this thread are insulting to Canadian's and embarrassing for all the other Americans, knock it off dummies.

I'll apologize for the two or three douche bags making insulting comments about Canada. Like we in the US have so much to brag about, we invented the iphone yet fucked up the development and roll-out of our government's healthcare insurance website. We had a President declare "Mission Accomplished" just weeks after we started a ware that then last another several years. We make fun of how some of the people in our country talk by jokingly (and with complete insult) say 'Merica and then the next year everyone uses it as a hashtag, completely forgetting that it started as a fucking insult! We worship sports that are only played in the US and then declare the season's winner as "the World's Champion"...so ethnocentric.

I know the folks of Canada don't need my defense, but as a first generation American from a family from Canada I'll be the first to defend.

The douche bags making jokes have the intelligence of, well, douche bags and they are the few among a very respectful, curious, and intelligent many.

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September 14, 2014, 07:29:41 AM
 #12

All the jokes about Canada on this thread are insulting to Canadian's and embarrassing for all the other Americans, knock it off dummies.

I'll apologize for the two or three douche bags making insulting comments about Canada. Like we in the US have so much to brag about, we invented the iphone yet fucked up the development and roll-out of our government's healthcare insurance website. We had a President declare "Mission Accomplished" just weeks after we started a ware that then last another several years. We make fun of how some of the people in our country talk by jokingly (and with complete insult) say 'Merica and then the next year everyone uses it as a hashtag, completely forgetting that it started as a fucking insult! We worship sports that are only played in the US and then declare the season's winner as "the World's Champion"...so ethnocentric.

I know the folks of Canada don't need my defense, but as a first generation American from a family from Canada I'll be the first to defend.

The douche bags making jokes have the intelligence of, well, douche bags and they are the few among a very respectful, curious, and intelligent many.


I wasn't making fun of "Canada" unless stating fact is insulting.


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September 14, 2014, 07:55:25 AM
 #13

I can't believe OP would pay so much for silver, those products are under half ounce
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September 14, 2014, 09:31:49 AM
 #14

I can't believe OP would pay so much for silver, those products are under half ounce

50 for 50 is certainly false marketing i didnt look for the fine print i didnt realise mints could use gimmick advertising like that  try 50 for 10 dollars silver sounds more accurate

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September 14, 2014, 09:59:33 AM
 #15

Very nice concept.
I'm not really aware of European coins which I could use for this purpose/experiment.
I like the idea of using a unknown coin for payment while it is legal tender as well.
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September 14, 2014, 10:06:29 AM
 #16

not sure i understand exactly what the point about bitcoin in this story is.

we should subtly nudge and hint about bitcoin but not go into any detail, when introducing it to someone?
If you can convince a store/a person to accept something that isn't cash (like the $50 Silver Bullion), it's easier to make them accept Bitcoin as well. That is what I got out of this whole story and it makes sense to me. It's not so much Bitcoin related, but pushing people away from cash money is always a good thing. Grin

In The Netherlands we have something like this as well. It's called "Zilveren vijfje" and they are made at least once a year. They often celebrate memorable  (like our new King) or sad moments. A "Zilveren vijfje" can be used as legal tender and it happens from time to time, but most people use it as a collectible, hahaha.

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September 14, 2014, 10:22:20 AM
 #17

not sure i understand exactly what the point about bitcoin in this story is.

we should subtly nudge and hint about bitcoin but not go into any detail, when introducing it to someone?
If you can convince a store/a person to accept something that isn't cash (like the $50 Silver Bullion), it's easier to make them accept Bitcoin as well. That is what I got out of this whole story and it makes sense to me. It's not so much Bitcoin related, but pushing people away from cash money is always a good thing. Grin

In The Netherlands we have something like this as well. It's called "Zilveren vijfje" and they are made at least once a year. They often celebrate memorable  (like our new King) or sad moments. A "Zilveren vijfje" can be used as legal tender and it happens from time to time, but most people use it as a collectible, hahaha.
It would be even better if they issued a inferior stainless steel coin worth 50 Euro.
I can remember someone tried to pay with a 50 gulden (dutch currency before euro) coin in a grocery store 25 years ago.
I remember there was commotion about it and eventually it was denied.
I'm not sure what his motives were, maybe he was short on regular currency and found this coin in his collection.
I remember it was a really big coin...

Nxtblg (OP)
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September 14, 2014, 10:19:36 PM
 #18

not sure i understand exactly what the point about bitcoin in this story is.

we should subtly nudge and hint about bitcoin but not go into any detail, when introducing it to someone?

Sorry about not being clear. There are times when I barge into something, convinced that I have a neat-o idea, only to find that I climbed up Mount Vanity again. Smiley

To be frank, I really should shut up and show the results after I try it out for myself. Again, thanks for the feedback.






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