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Author Topic: Calling $20 solid floor  (Read 2661 times)
r0ach
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January 15, 2015, 01:55:27 AM
 #41

However 20$ seems a little far fetched. Also the logic that market cap should equal transaction volume seems a lil flawed.

Nope, it is monetary theory.  If a monetary asset serves the purpose, and only serves the purpose, of buying stuff with, then its value (in fact, the inverse: the price of the goods expressed in that monetary asset) can easily be found using P x Q = M x V.

It's simple bookkeeping:

"the amount of money over the counter"  = "the total price of all the goods and services bought with it"  (in a given period).

The amount of money over the counter = the amount of money existing, times the average number of times a same unit has been spend.   That is M x V.  M = the amount of money existing, V is the average number of times the same unit is spent (in the given period).  It is also called the VELOCITY of the money.  V = 1/T, where T is the average holding time (in number of periods).

If the considered period is 1 year, and a coin gets spend on average 12 times per year (once a month), then the velocity is 12.  The holding time is 1/12 (of a year which is a month).

If there are 1000 coins, and they are on average spend 12 times a year, then 12 000 coins went over the counter to buy stuff with that year.

That must then be equal to the total price of goods that was bought, which is P x Q, where Q is a "reference good" and P is the price of the reference good.  Say that the reference good is "a loaf of bread", then the total amount of goods (expressed in equivalent loafs of bread) exchanged in a year is Q, and P is then the price of a loaf of bread.

P x Q is nothing else but the total price of all the goods that was bought, so it must be 12 000 coins too.

Hence, M x V = P x Q

Example: if the total amount of goods bought with bitcoin is $20 billion a year, and a bitcoin is held on average 14 days, then V is about 25.  M being 15 million (coins) we have that M x V = 375 million (coins traded a year).

If we take as "reference good" something that's worth $1.0 we have:


375 million = P x $20 billion.

P is the price (in bitcoin) of the reference good (worth $1).  So 1/P is the price of a bitcoin.

We find: 1/P = 20 000 / 375 = $53.3


So if bitcoin is used to buy 20 billion worth per year, and coins are on average held 14 days between a trade, the price of a coin should be $53.

What we have is that a lot of coins were held a lot longer, but a lot less stuff was bought with it.
It was not really used as a currency.



This is all bogus considering Bitcoin's primary uses are currently insurance against fiat implosion, speculation, and lastly black market.  Your primitive formula that doesn't address it's two main uses at all is obviously not valid in this discussion when it only partially addresses the black market and nothing else.  If it was that simple, you would be a billionaire in the gold commodity market, but you already know it won't work.

Where's your variable for fear index of fiat markets amongst dozens of other missing variables?  Your forumula is not useful for predicting really anything in this context.

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crazy-pilot
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January 15, 2015, 01:59:10 AM
 #42

I've sold most of my BTC at about $290 rate couple of days ago
I've finally realized that bitcoin is currently at a bubble state (took me long to realize that, eh?). In order for bitcoin to function we need as much as $100M market cap which makes like $7 per BTC. Shurely some1 may still hold coins so I guess the price will not drop below $20 (±$10). Not going to predict when it is going to happen, but it eventually will fall to this kinda prices.

Current BTC price is WAY too expensive. If you are not selling now you are going to wait for a loooong time to see $190. I am talking to those permabulls here who still beleive BTC is going up in value soon. Its not. Not giving any advice to day traders here coz I don't know much about day trading.

Time will tell if I'm right or wrong.

I love bitcoin and I believe its a game changer. But currently its a bubble. We should wait until it is down to about $20 per BTC and then buy back in to see it slowly rise to $10k Cheesy

Posting this because I wish I've seen this kind of advice few months back when I could sell my stash at a rate of $400 per BTC

Dude it's at 199 already again... Seriously these BS threads need to stop, read what is actually going on, the manipulation that drives the price down that cannot continue forever. If you bought the past days you can already sell for a nice profit today.

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flipstyle
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January 15, 2015, 02:16:44 AM
 #43

I've sold most of my BTC at about $290 rate couple of days ago
I've finally realized that bitcoin is currently at a bubble state (took me long to realize that, eh?). In order for bitcoin to function we need as much as $100M market cap which makes like $7 per BTC. Shurely some1 may still hold coins so I guess the price will not drop below $20 (±$10). Not going to predict when it is going to happen, but it eventually will fall to this kinda prices.

Current BTC price is WAY too expensive. If you are not selling now you are going to wait for a loooong time to see $190. I am talking to those permabulls here who still beleive BTC is going up in value soon. Its not. Not giving any advice to day traders here coz I don't know much about day trading.

Time will tell if I'm right or wrong.

I love bitcoin and I believe its a game changer. But currently its a bubble. We should wait until it is down to about $20 per BTC and then buy back in to see it slowly rise to $10k Cheesy

Posting this because I wish I've seen this kind of advice few months back when I could sell my stash at a rate of $400 per BTC

Dude it's at 199 already again... Seriously these BS threads need to stop, read what is actually going on, the manipulation that drives the price down that cannot continue forever. If you bought the past days you can already sell for a nice profit today.

lollllllll

it hit $150 (the low) for like a few minutes yesterday.  Nobody is profiting if they bought the past few days, as even if it hit 200 today, that's still lower than it's average for the week, and much lower for the month.

Yes, we get it.  You want everyone to ignore the price and pretent like all is gravy in the crypto world.  By the way, there's a very big difference between FUD and reality.  By stating that the price is tanking and has been steadily over the past half year is living in reality.  The contrary would be living in denial.

A temporary 30-50 dollar bounces in a 24 hour period does not constitute a complete market reversal in public sentiment.
crazy-pilot
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January 15, 2015, 11:21:03 PM
 #44

I've sold most of my BTC at about $290 rate couple of days ago
I've finally realized that bitcoin is currently at a bubble state (took me long to realize that, eh?). In order for bitcoin to function we need as much as $100M market cap which makes like $7 per BTC. Shurely some1 may still hold coins so I guess the price will not drop below $20 (±$10). Not going to predict when it is going to happen, but it eventually will fall to this kinda prices.

Current BTC price is WAY too expensive. If you are not selling now you are going to wait for a loooong time to see $190. I am talking to those permabulls here who still beleive BTC is going up in value soon. Its not. Not giving any advice to day traders here coz I don't know much about day trading.

Time will tell if I'm right or wrong.

I love bitcoin and I believe its a game changer. But currently its a bubble. We should wait until it is down to about $20 per BTC and then buy back in to see it slowly rise to $10k Cheesy

Posting this because I wish I've seen this kind of advice few months back when I could sell my stash at a rate of $400 per BTC

Dude it's at 199 already again... Seriously these BS threads need to stop, read what is actually going on, the manipulation that drives the price down that cannot continue forever. If you bought the past days you can already sell for a nice profit today.

lollllllll

it hit $150 (the low) for like a few minutes yesterday.  Nobody is profiting if they bought the past few days, as even if it hit 200 today, that's still lower than it's average for the week, and much lower for the month.

Yes, we get it.  You want everyone to ignore the price and pretent like all is gravy in the crypto world.  By the way, there's a very big difference between FUD and reality.  By stating that the price is tanking and has been steadily over the past half year is living in reality.  The contrary would be living in denial.

A temporary 30-50 dollar bounces in a 24 hour period does not constitute a complete market reversal in public sentiment.

Did I mention a market reversal? No, I just stated the current price at the time and that if you were going short, you would have made a profit already. That's all.

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