PSA: How to remove cancer from the trust list

[funtotry]

Removing vod from trust list can cause to a very big loss.
I know i'm not a scammer but got a feedback from vod but think about those who are scammer and marked by vod.
We can't leave 100 of scammer out there because few of wrong marked by vod.

I usually like to have this red thing if they are in ANY WAY shady, so that in the future I am much more careful with people. I would rather have the red on signifying theres a chance of them scamming instead of nothing at all. Helps to clean up the community a bit.

[FuckIdolPlus]

It's pathetic how these petty thieves are coming after me for being honest.   

Awww so cute -_-
Fuck off.

[CrackedLogic]

Awww so cute -_-
Fuck off.

Yep, my point exactly. So much for being mature grown men.

IYou guys act like a bunch of 12 year olds. If you're going to act like pieces of shits to the guys you left you negative feedback you shouldn't expect it to be removed so easily.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

[Vod]

FuckIdolPlus seems to be the worst of this cancer running loose on the forums.  He now claims he lent me 21 btc. 

While some of the other sellers have decided to stop selling and have their negative trust removed, FuckIdolPlus seems to have turned into a liar who makes up stories to make his side seem better.

He is just a petty thief.  His arrest for theft will be a boost to this forum's credibility. 

[FuckIdolPlus]

FuckIdolPlus seems to be the worst of this cancer running loose on the forums.  He now claims he lent me 21 btc.  

While some of the other sellers have decided to stop selling and have their negative trust removed, FuckIdolPlus seems to have turned into a liar who makes up stories to make his side seem better.

He is just a petty thief.  His arrest for theft will be a boost to this forum's credibility.  

When did I claim to do so dude? WTF are you talking. o.O

You are just fucking high dude. Get a life.

When the fuck did I say that to you pretentious dickhead.

Also no one that I know off has stopped selling MSDN key, nor anyone will. Enough of you dickness.

Rot in hell.

[grue]

Luke-Jr tried to install malware on gentoo users

Misleading much? His distribution of bitcoind ignored satoshidice transactions. That's very far from malware.

[mishax1]

Luke-Jr tried to install malware on gentoo users

Misleading much? His distribution of bitcoind ignored satoshidice transactions. That's very far from malware.

Not only Satoshidice, MAstercoin and Counterparty as well.

[Fuck You Vod 2]

Luke-Jr tried to install malware on gentoo users

Misleading much? His distribution of bitcoind ignored satoshidice transactions. That's very far from malware.

You'd expect that a global moderator in the biggest bitcoin forum would be familiar with the definition of malware...

https://i.imgur.com/ulu7iH8.png?1

[Slackerc0de.us]

What... is.... that.....   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kvjhmNgdeQ

haha, that's funny

[Snagglebone]

If you have "DefaultTrust" in your list, you've still got cancer in there. The only good trust list is one you build up yourself. Trusting others to determine your own level of trust is a sure fire recipe for heartache.

[grue]

Luke-Jr tried to install malware on gentoo users

Misleading much? His distribution of bitcoind ignored satoshidice transactions. That's very far from malware.

You'd expect that a global moderator in the biggest bitcoin forum would be familiar with the definition of malware...

I'll take the bait.

Is refusing to relay certain transactions hostile? intrusive? no. It's certainly not a virus, worm, trojan horse. Nor does it spy on you or hold your computer for ransom. I'm saying what luke-jr did was right, but there's no need to overblow everything.

[Fuck You Vod 2]

Is refusing to relay certain transactions hostile? intrusive? no. It's certainly not a virus, worm, trojan horse. Nor does it spy on you or hold your computer for ransom. I'm saying what luke-jr did was right, but there's no need to overblow everything.

He used his power to intrusively alter software on machines using gentoo without the permission of the owners.

Isn't intrusive software malware? By definition, yes. Maybe according to your moral standards it isn't. But you see, not everyone likes the hierarchy withinthe bitcoin community that Luke-Jr has repeatedly taken advantage of.

Also:

I'm saying what luke-jr did was right.

Yeah right, if a developer with access to software updates took advantage of his position by pushing whatever unwanted changes to your machine through a software update tell me if you think that it's going to feel right.

[funtotry]

If you have "DefaultTrust" in your list, you've still got cancer in there. The only good trust list is one you build up yourself. Trusting others to determine your own level of trust is a sure fire recipe for heartache.

Yes this is correct but for the average user who doesn't know the community very well and doesn't know any trusted people, defaulttrust is still the best option. If I was maybe a hero member, meaning I would know many of the people here, I would probably start making my own trust list but I am still using defaulttrust, with the exception of some users.

[Snagglebone]

If you have "DefaultTrust" in your list, you've still got cancer in there. The only good trust list is one you build up yourself. Trusting others to determine your own level of trust is a sure fire recipe for heartache.

Yes this is correct but for the average user who doesn't know the community very well and doesn't know any trusted people, defaulttrust is still the best option. If I was maybe a hero member, meaning I would know many of the people here, I would probably start making my own trust list but I am still using defaulttrust, with the exception of some users.

But the point is, we have seen:

A) The "trusted people" abuse that power numerous times. So they aren't really trusted, are they?
B) The default trust list is not based off of people who are trustworthy, they are based off of Theymos friends and acquaintances.

Neither of those two scenarios is worthy of putting any trust in. A user should not have any trusted people listed in his list by default. He (or she) should have people in there based on their dealings with them. If they do a trade or something, when they leave feedback, have it ask if they want to be put into the trust list. They could also put someone in there manually... but having DeafultTrust in the trust list is a bad idea, no matter how you slice it. It just sets up everyone for failure, as we have ample evidence for at this point.

[Tomatocage]

But the point is, we have seen:

A) The "trusted people" abuse that power numerous times. So they aren't really trusted, are they?
B) The default trust list is not based off of people who are trustworthy, they are based off of Theymos friends and acquaintances.

Neither of those two scenarios is worthy of putting any trust in. A user should not have any trusted people listed in his list by default. He (or she) should have people in there based on their dealings with them. If they do a trade or something, when they leave feedback, have it ask if they want to be put into the trust list. They could also put someone in there manually... but having DeafultTrust in the trust list is a bad idea, no matter how you slice it. It just sets up everyone for failure, as we have ample evidence for at this point.

Fair point. However, I just want to make it clear that I don't know Theymos IRL. In fact, I'm not even sure how I got into the DefaultTrust group. I made this account to talk smack to Smoothie back in the Solidcoin drama days (not that I was a big Solidcoin supporter; I just liked playing devil's advocate). I could be as foul-mouthed and as much of a dick as I wanted to without tarnishing the rep of my actual account. Then at some point this account actually had better rep than my main and my ratings on others actually had a huge impact, and that's when I realized I had better get my shit together and start being more impartial and be more considerate of other peoples situations. Not every brand-new account asking for a loan is a scammer. Not every person selling MSDN invites is out to take your money and run. So if you get a negative rating from me and you don't agree with it, just shoot me a PM and I'll give it a second look, it's not that big a deal. I don't get a huge power trip out of flagging people... unless it's an actual scammer.

Anyway, I'm not even sure where I was going with this.

[Snagglebone]

But the point is, we have seen:

A) The "trusted people" abuse that power numerous times. So they aren't really trusted, are they?
B) The default trust list is not based off of people who are trustworthy, they are based off of Theymos friends and acquaintances.

Neither of those two scenarios is worthy of putting any trust in. A user should not have any trusted people listed in his list by default. He (or she) should have people in there based on their dealings with them. If they do a trade or something, when they leave feedback, have it ask if they want to be put into the trust list. They could also put someone in there manually... but having DeafultTrust in the trust list is a bad idea, no matter how you slice it. It just sets up everyone for failure, as we have ample evidence for at this point.

Fair point. However, I just want to make it clear that I don't know Theymos IRL. In fact, I'm not even sure how I got into the DefaultTrust group. I made this account to talk smack to Smoothie back in the Solidcoin drama days (not that I was a big Solidcoin supporter; I just liked playing devil's advocate). I could be as foul-mouthed and as much of a dick as I wanted to without tarnishing the rep of my actual account. Then at some point this account actually had better rep than my main and my ratings on others actually had a huge impact, and that's when I realized I had better get my shit together and start being more impartial and be more considerate of other peoples situations. Not every brand-new account asking for a loan is a scammer. Not every person selling MSDN invites is out to take your money and run. So if you get a negative rating from me and you don't agree with it, just shoot me a PM and I'll give it a second look, it's not that big a deal. I don't get a huge power trip out of flagging people... unless it's an actual scammer.

Anyway, I'm not even sure where I was going with this.

I'm sure you do a fine job and take your position responsibly. But not everyone does, and in fact a lot of people in the DefaultTrust don't or worse yet, they are active scammers. This is no different than luke-jr cutting out Satoshidice transactions from the gentoo distro, except in reverse. He is deciding what users should and should not accept as transactions, whereas Theymos i deciding who and who not to trust. In either event, the user can choose to change that, but the default should be nothing at all.

What is ironic is that for a system (bitcoin) that is built around decentralization and trustless systems, making a trusted, centralized "list" that all users are force-ably "opted-in" to, instead of having to manually select it themselves is, how you say, "absurd," "hypocritical?"  

[Quickseller]

I made this account to talk smack to Smoothie back in the Solidcoin drama days (not that I was a big Solidcoin supporter; I just liked playing devil's advocate). I could be as foul-mouthed and as much of a dick as I wanted to without tarnishing the rep of my actual account.

Bahahahah. Does this kind of shit happen often in the altcoin section? If so then I need to make my way over there more often

[SaltySpitoon]

Default trust as designed is for newbies, no one should be relying on it. When Theymos made the system, he wasn't betting on people being too lazy to create their own trust networks, it was assumed that default trust would be just that, a default setting that would be customized and then become decentralized. When the scammer tag was done away with, the idea was that people would use default trust until newbies had enough experience seeing how things work here to make their own trust lists. I would still argue that the trust system has been a net positive, yet modifications do need to be made to the system in itself to make up for people's lack of willingness to think for themselves. As it is, the system is centralized around Theymos, most reasonably so as the operator of the site, he would have the best motivation to keep the site running. I'm sure Theymos would be thrilled to death if he could remove himself from the role, but as of yet no proposal has been made that is free of major flaws.

Vod is on the second level of default trust, if his being there is a "cancer" its not the system, its in Tomatocage's judgement. Flaws in the system would be if there was issue with Theymos' judgement on who should be in the first level of default trust. In one of the other 30 threads on the subject matter I made a note of saying that to a reasonable extent, I side with Vod's point of view on the matter, I personally think his application of negative trust was apt, perhaps a neutral would be more appropriate but that's not for me to decide. That conversation then turned into "well maybe he should change his wording to be a little bit more clear" and I had no desire to start arguing semantics. It is completely reasonable to make the information known to potential buyers that MSDN keys violate Microsoft's TOS, and that any report of it would invalidate the keys leaving the buyers high and dry. That is reasonable enough in my opinon.

Anyway, there has been a dialog open about changes to the trust system for months now and people's participation is encouraged, if you feel so strongly, devise a new trust system that is without as many flaws as possible, submit the idea, and if it is the solution we have all been waiting for, it will be implemented.

Full Disclosure: I am on default trust, but I care very little opinion on the politics of it all, as I use it as intended for people able to think for themselves. If Theymos said tomorrow that the trust system is desolved and things are going back to market anarchy, that wouldn't effect me in the slightest. People would complain about scammers getting away with scams like they did in the olden days though. I do however think something needs to be in place to protect new members. If you have been here for a year and fall for the obvious signs of a scammer, I dont feel bad for you in the slightest. Someone who has been here 5 days on the other hand, something needs to be in place so we aren't throwing them to the very obvious, not so clever sharks.

[Vod]

Tomatocage must answer the real question: Are you removing Vod from your trust list or not?

He is not removing me over this event.  He may remove me in the future though, who knows?

[alani123]

Tomatocage must answer the real question: Are you removing Vod from your trust list or not?

He is not removing me over this event.  He may remove me in the future though, who knows?

Maybe tone it down with the controversial ratings and you'll probably stay in his list. The recent events brought enough turmoil in the forum, I'm sure you wouldn't want to cause something aimilar again given that it would risk your position in the trust list.