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futureofbitcoin
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March 30, 2015, 03:04:20 PM |
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Yes, I had read your post and was going to reply to it, just wanted to first hear your reply to mine. I think, it is no use playing small amounts if you have time limits set or house edge incremented if you use a bot or otherwise try to increase your betting speed
I said in this thread before, but I'll say it again. Having a time limit is absolutely detrimental to a casino. If the point of giving the players an edge is to get more players to play, the amount of players they can get that way is far less than the amount lost because of a time limit. And the quality of players is a lot worse. What do I mean? Well, if you consider a gambling addict, do they really want to wait say an hour between bets? No, they want to bet again right away to win back their loss, or maybe they're on a winning streak and they're "hot". They're not gonna wait until their "luck changes". But you read just a part of my message. I didn't mean that those time limits should be firmly nailed down. Actually, I meant to say that the time limits (or rather time gaps between the bets) should ultimately determine the house edge. The faster you bet the higher edge you get... Perhaps, I should update the opening post to make this clear at the start (since people tend to repeat what has already been said) No I read your post. My point doesn't really change, people can just find ways around the time limit, or make a bot that plays right when the time is up. It won't really help bring in "real" gamblers, just people looking to make money off of the casino. They won't benefit from this. |
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deisik (OP)
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March 30, 2015, 04:20:41 PM |
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Yes, I had read your post and was going to reply to it, just wanted to first hear your reply to mine. I think, it is no use playing small amounts if you have time limits set or house edge incremented if you use a bot or otherwise try to increase your betting speed
I said in this thread before, but I'll say it again. Having a time limit is absolutely detrimental to a casino. If the point of giving the players an edge is to get more players to play, the amount of players they can get that way is far less than the amount lost because of a time limit. And the quality of players is a lot worse. What do I mean? Well, if you consider a gambling addict, do they really want to wait say an hour between bets? No, they want to bet again right away to win back their loss, or maybe they're on a winning streak and they're "hot". They're not gonna wait until their "luck changes". But you read just a part of my message. I didn't mean that those time limits should be firmly nailed down. Actually, I meant to say that the time limits (or rather time gaps between the bets) should ultimately determine the house edge. The faster you bet the higher edge you get... Perhaps, I should update the opening post to make this clear at the start (since people tend to repeat what has already been said) No I read your post. My point doesn't really change, people can just find ways around the time limit, or make a bot that plays right when the time is up. It won't really help bring in "real" gamblers, just people looking to make money off of the casino. They won't benefit from this. You've read but seem to have misunderstood my idea. I don't know how the house edge is actually implemented at dice sites (anyone care to explain?), but I see no problem in keeping track of the time passed since the last bet made by the user. Therefore it shouldn't be difficult to change the house edge appropriately at the moment the bet is executed... |
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XinXan
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March 30, 2015, 04:36:17 PM |
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Yes, I had read your post and was going to reply to it, just wanted to first hear your reply to mine. I think, it is no use playing small amounts if you have time limits set or house edge incremented if you use a bot or otherwise try to increase your betting speed
I said in this thread before, but I'll say it again. Having a time limit is absolutely detrimental to a casino. If the point of giving the players an edge is to get more players to play, the amount of players they can get that way is far less than the amount lost because of a time limit. And the quality of players is a lot worse. What do I mean? Well, if you consider a gambling addict, do they really want to wait say an hour between bets? No, they want to bet again right away to win back their loss, or maybe they're on a winning streak and they're "hot". They're not gonna wait until their "luck changes". But you read just a part of my message. I didn't mean that those time limits should be firmly nailed down. Actually, I meant to say that the time limits (or rather time gaps between the bets) should ultimately determine the house edge. The faster you bet the higher edge you get... Perhaps, I should update the opening post to make this clear at the start (since people tend to repeat what has already been said) No I read your post. My point doesn't really change, people can just find ways around the time limit, or make a bot that plays right when the time is up. It won't really help bring in "real" gamblers, just people looking to make money off of the casino. They won't benefit from this. You've read but seem to have misunderstood my idea. I don't know how the house edge is actually implemented at dice sites (anyone care to explain?), but I see no problem in keeping track of the time passed since the last bet made by the user. Therefore it shouldn't be difficult to change the house edge appropriately at the moment the bet is executed... Wowow hold on a second, you are saying that the casino would change the odds in between bets depending on when the last bet was made? Like 51% chance to win, you bet and wait 2 secs and the next bet now has 50.5% chance? That would be a weird but good idea for a casino xD, quick register the patent!! |
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deisik (OP)
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March 30, 2015, 05:16:05 PM |
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No I read your post. My point doesn't really change, people can just find ways around the time limit, or make a bot that plays right when the time is up. It won't really help bring in "real" gamblers, just people looking to make money off of the casino. They won't benefit from this.
You've read but seem to have misunderstood my idea. I don't know how the house edge is actually implemented at dice sites (anyone care to explain?), but I see no problem in keeping track of the time passed since the last bet made by the user. Therefore it shouldn't be difficult to change the house edge appropriately at the moment the bet is executed... Wowow hold on a second, you are saying that the casino would change the odds in between bets depending on when the last bet was made? Like 51% chance to win, you bet and wait 2 secs and the next bet now has 50.5% chance? That would be a weird but good idea for a casino xD, quick register the patent!! Yeah, you hit the nail right on the head. If someone decides to register this idea, the patent should thus be declared null and void by reason of my post... Prior art! |
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futureofbitcoin
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March 30, 2015, 05:23:30 PM |
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Yes, I had read your post and was going to reply to it, just wanted to first hear your reply to mine. I think, it is no use playing small amounts if you have time limits set or house edge incremented if you use a bot or otherwise try to increase your betting speed
I said in this thread before, but I'll say it again. Having a time limit is absolutely detrimental to a casino. If the point of giving the players an edge is to get more players to play, the amount of players they can get that way is far less than the amount lost because of a time limit. And the quality of players is a lot worse. What do I mean? Well, if you consider a gambling addict, do they really want to wait say an hour between bets? No, they want to bet again right away to win back their loss, or maybe they're on a winning streak and they're "hot". They're not gonna wait until their "luck changes". But you read just a part of my message. I didn't mean that those time limits should be firmly nailed down. Actually, I meant to say that the time limits (or rather time gaps between the bets) should ultimately determine the house edge. The faster you bet the higher edge you get... Perhaps, I should update the opening post to make this clear at the start (since people tend to repeat what has already been said) No I read your post. My point doesn't really change, people can just find ways around the time limit, or make a bot that plays right when the time is up. It won't really help bring in "real" gamblers, just people looking to make money off of the casino. They won't benefit from this. You've read but seem to have misunderstood my idea. I don't know how the house edge is actually implemented at dice sites (anyone care to explain?), but I see no problem in keeping track of the time passed since the last bet made by the user. Therefore it shouldn't be difficult to change the house edge appropriately at the moment the bet is executed... I didn't misunderstand anything. I'm saying you have no way of knowing that I'm the same user if I log on with a different mac/ip address. It's difficult to implement counters and very easy to bypass. Particularly when money is involved. You should stop nitpicking particular bits, and read my overarching idea. Then you might finally understand. |
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malzahar
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March 30, 2015, 05:36:04 PM |
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Wouldnt negative house edge still be a winning format anyways?
Since there are short falls for the player to eventually keep betting longer term.
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JaredStein
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March 30, 2015, 05:57:10 PM |
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Wouldnt negative house edge still be a winning format anyways?
Since there are short falls for the player to eventually keep betting longer term.
Yes but say someone had a auto bet on at .00001 and kept betting for 10 days straight, they would be in positive alot. |
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futureofbitcoin
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March 30, 2015, 06:20:25 PM |
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Wouldnt negative house edge still be a winning format anyways?
Since there are short falls for the player to eventually keep betting longer term.
Yes but say someone had a auto bet on at .00001 and kept betting for 10 days straight, they would be in positive alot. I'm glad someone understands. |
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MasterYii
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March 30, 2015, 06:22:34 PM |
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Its most likely fair then, if this is zero house edge, since the rolls can be all 12 winning streaks.
So in the end, you could be up depending the # of rolls.
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XinXan
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March 30, 2015, 06:26:48 PM |
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Wouldnt negative house edge still be a winning format anyways?
Since there are short falls for the player to eventually keep betting longer term.
Yes but say someone had a auto bet on at .00001 and kept betting for 10 days straight, they would be in positive alot. I'm glad someone understands. Well thats what was my initial idea too but then OP just came up with a bet limit thing so the casino wont let you bet fast enough. Still you can do it with friends or just use a ton of bots and you will eventually destroy the bankroll by yourself even if other people lose you would just keep winning over and over |
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Minnlo
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March 30, 2015, 06:38:38 PM |
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-snip
I don't know how the house edge is actually implemented at dice sites (anyone care to explain?)
-snip
It is very simple, the site just set your probability to win to make your EV always be (1- House edge %)*bet size. For example if you are playing a x2 bet in a 0.5% edge site, you will win the bet if the roll is under 49.75. (1-0.5% = 49.75%*2) But if you are playing in a 1% edge site, you will win the bet if the roll is under 49.5. (1-1% = 49.5%*2) |
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futureofbitcoin
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March 30, 2015, 07:17:40 PM |
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-snip
I don't know how the house edge is actually implemented at dice sites (anyone care to explain?)
-snip
It is very simple, the site just set your probability to win to make your EV always be (1- House edge %)*bet size. For example if you are playing a x2 bet in a 0.5% edge site, you will win the bet if the roll is under 49.75. (1-0.5% = 49.75%*2) But if you are playing in a 1% edge site, you will win the bet if the roll is under 49.5. (1-1% = 49.5%*2) I don't think that's what he was asking. I think he was asking how that's implemented. One simple way in pseudocode would be double player_bankroll;
double bet;
int x = RNG(1,100);
if (x > 51) {
player_bankroll = player_bankroll + bet;
} else {
player_bankroll = player_bankroll - bet;
} And I haven't touched this stuff in 2+ years (I wasn't very good to begin with) so if it's way off, don't blame me. RNG stands for random number generator, in this case from 1 to 100. |
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deisik (OP)
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March 30, 2015, 07:22:03 PM
Last edit: March 30, 2015, 07:38:59 PM by deisik |
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-snip
I don't know how the house edge is actually implemented at dice sites (anyone care to explain?)
-snip
It is very simple, the site just set your probability to win to make your EV always be (1- House edge %)*bet size. For example if you are playing a x2 bet in a 0.5% edge site, you will win the bet if the roll is under 49.75. (1-0.5% = 49.75%*2) But if you are playing in a 1% edge site, you will win the bet if the roll is under 49.5. (1-1% = 49.5%*2) WTF, somehow I expected a good deal of black magic going underneath there! Therefore it won't be difficult at all to calculate the house edge as a function of time that has passed since the last bet. Regarding bots playing from different IP addresses and things like that, this is exactly what many faucets are fighting with on a day-by-day basis... So, if you want your IP address banned and money taken, you're welcome! |
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futureofbitcoin
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March 30, 2015, 07:37:07 PM |
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-snip
I don't know how the house edge is actually implemented at dice sites (anyone care to explain?)
-snip
It is very simple, the site just set your probability to win to make your EV always be (1- House edge %)*bet size. For example if you are playing a x2 bet in a 0.5% edge site, you will win the bet if the roll is under 49.75. (1-0.5% = 49.75%*2) But if you are playing in a 1% edge site, you will win the bet if the roll is under 49.5. (1-1% = 49.5%*2) WTF, somehow I expected a good deal of black magic going underneath there! So it won't be difficult at all to calculate the house edge as a function of time that has passed since the last bet. Regarding bots playing from different IP addresses and things like that, this is exactly what many faucets are fighting with on a day-by-day basis... So, if you want your IP address banned and money taken, you're welcome! Then you can bet many people will be screaming SCAM at the casino and they'll go out of business just like that. |
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mordekaiser
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March 30, 2015, 08:38:07 PM |
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how would the casino supply constant payouts though, if it was a negative house edge?
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Phildo
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March 31, 2015, 01:14:12 AM |
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The house edge from all casino games comes from making sure the payout and the odds of winning don't match. In roulette, if you bet on red you have less than 50% of winning (1 or 2 green numbers) but they pay you 1-1, which would be fair if you had a 50% chance of winning.
Same thing with dice sites, you pick the chances of winning, and they pay you less than what would be the "fair" or break even amount if you win.
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psykachu
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March 31, 2015, 01:25:02 AM |
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lol, negative house edge has no sense for me
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adaseb
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March 31, 2015, 05:53:48 AM |
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Wouldnt negative house edge still be a winning format anyways?
Since there are short falls for the player to eventually keep betting longer term.
Yes I completely agree. The house edge could even be -5% for the casino and the casino will probably end up winning due to people being greedy, emotional, and fearful. |
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factor280
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March 31, 2015, 06:12:00 AM |
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I think negative house edge could be attractive to a lot of gamblers. A bit risky for the house... but could still be a profitable proposition based on player emotion/greed.
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