France plane crash: No survivors expected [Condolences to the families]

[(oYo)]

Responding to the developments, Mr Driessens said: ‘Looking back, I slowly start to be angry. I don’t understand how a serious company can let a depressed man pilot a plane.

How was the airline to know the pilot was depressed?

There is no central database to store that information.  Even if it was required to disclose the info to the current employer, a person could just switch jobs and be anonymous again.

Should we set up a registry?  How would that clash with privacy rights?  Depression is a pretty private issue.

I've been depressed in my life.  I would be horrified if an entire forum found out about that, so I keep it a secret.

I don't think you'd need to go that far; I imagine some form of regular psychological assessment of the flight crew, mandated by the company, would go a long way in helping to determine if they were fit to fly. Now, this wouldn't work in every scenario, of course, as there is a limit to what those tests can do; but it might be better than just expecting them to self-report, which often doesn't seem to happen, perhaps out of fear of losing the job, financial problems, and so on.

Pilots have to undergo regular (annual) medical testing, but these are just physical examinations and do not include a psychological assessments.

I feel that you are not really depressed but if you do. Why would you go as far as avoiding talking about it and keeping it secret? Closing in with your depression is nothing good, you should be seeking help and not running away from solution. I would rather know if someone I know or have contact with is under effect of depression...

The possibility of losing your job (and just the stigma) is a real deterrent.

[Spendulus]

....
Might work, but you'll still need someone to operate the system. Who would that be? The pilot? The flight attendants?
Where would the button be? If we put it outside the cockpit a rogue passenger could eject everyone. If inside, it would make it easier for the pilot to kill everyone without crashing the plane. He'd just have to push it somewhere over the Arctic Ocean and they'd be all dead of hypothermia within an hour.

The solution to this new wave of maniacal use of the heavy locked door to the cockpit is to simply mandate that it be unlocked.

Then any crazy or religious-crazy pilot or copilot would have to deal with the passengers not being inclined to participate with the crazy.

Crazy passengers would have to deal with the other passengers.

Majority would rule.

[Joshuar]

Damn, it seems like there's been a lot or air disasters recently. Has there been any comment on the cause of it?

<snip>

There was only 1 other plane crash this year, which still makes planes very safe and reliable. Just think about it, most airports in the world have over 10 takeoffs every hour and out of these thousands of planes in air every day we have maybe one crash every 2 months. I read a lot about plane crashes and most are due to human error.

Just like cars, plane travel will become a lot safer when humans are taken out of the equation and only used for emergencies (mechanical problems).

Exactly, human error is the cause for most of the accidents found in automobiles and aircrafts.

[jaysabi]

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm

This site is full of air accident stats. Number of accidents and fatalities have both been trending down, even though the number of flights increases year over year. 2014 was an outlier year in terms of number of fatalities.

[Transisto]

Always fun to listen to these guys,,, always good analysis of major events.

https://www.noagendaplayer.com/listen/707/12-58

On the Germanwing Crash

[bitcollins85]

It's happened before see SilkAir 185 and Pacific 773

[saturn643]

Guess they'll have to start doing better background checks on Pilots, as well as mental health checks, etc. Scary. Poor people on board must have known as the other Pilot was banging on the cockpit door.

[godlyitems]

is it the plane crash because the pilot suicide ?
bcos in my country that news said the pilot suicide and something.

[bitgeek]

is it the plane crash because the pilot suicide ?
bcos in my country that news said the pilot suicide and something.

Yes, they just published the tapes from the cockpit. The captain went to the bathroom and the co-pilot closed the door and started to descend. The captain couldn't get in and started to hit the door and shout from the outside, but the other guy never answered. Apparently he had problems with his eyes and could lose the licence, so it seems the whole thing was planned.
I can understand he wanted to die, but why not rent a plane and crash it yourself? Why would you kill so many innocent people? Such people should be brought back to life and then slowly killed again.

[Bizmark13]

So what are the odds of this not being a murder-suicide now? While the evidence gathered so far certainly points towards the co-pilot being the one at fault, could there be any other reasons that might explain why he was unresponsive and why he flew his plane into the ground?

Could it be possible that the co-pilot suffered a stroke or brain aneurysm which left him in a delusional state as he tried to land the plane? If so, then perhaps he mistook the captain for an intruder. Or perhaps he fell unconscious at the controls? Perhaps there was some sort of breach in the cockpit's windshield (e.g. a leak which would not have been detectable by the voice recorder) which caused a decompression incident in the cockpit which caused loss of consciousness and shut the cockpit door firmly closed?

[Spendulus]

So what are the odds of this not being a murder-suicide now? While the evidence gathered so far certainly points towards the co-pilot being the one at fault, could there be any other reasons that might explain why he was unresponsive and why he flew his plane into the ground?

Could it be possible that the co-pilot suffered a stroke or brain aneurysm which left him in a delusional state as he tried to land the plane? If so, then perhaps he mistook the captain for an intruder. Or perhaps he fell unconscious at the controls? Perhaps there was some sort of breach in the cockpit's windshield (e.g. a leak which would not have been detectable by the voice recorder) which caused a decompression incident in the cockpit which caused loss of consciousness and shut the cockpit door firmly closed?

A decompression in the cockpit would have blown the door open, not closed it more firmly.  Pilots usually have oxygen masks that auto inflate above 25,000 feet, since there is no time at those altitudes to grab a mask and put it on, should decompression occur.

"as he tried to land..."

There was no attempt to land this plane, it was deliberately crashed from 38,000 feet.

[Buffer Overflow]

Could it be possible that the co-pilot suffered a stroke or brain aneurysm which left him in a delusional state as he tried to land the plane? If so, then perhaps he mistook the captain for an intruder. Or perhaps he fell unconscious at the controls? Perhaps there was some sort of breach in the cockpit's windshield (e.g. a leak which would not have been detectable by the voice recorder) which caused a decompression incident in the cockpit which caused loss of consciousness and shut the cockpit door firmly closed?

The cockpit voice recorder heard the faint breathing of the co-pilot as the plane descended. It would of certainly heard a broken window.

Edit: Disturbingly the co-pilot's breathing was completely calm and relaxed!

[Nemo1024]

Have the Flight Data Recorder been recovered yet. Last I read, only its empty shell was found with no content.

Also, not all seems to be as streamlined with the suicide theory as it first seems:

Hacked: Did You Really Think Cockpit Door Was Locked?
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/03/27/350535/

and

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/03/27/neo-trailing-isis-to-tel-aviv/

[Bizmark13]

A decompression in the cockpit would have blown the door open, not closed it more firmly.  Pilots usually have oxygen masks that auto inflate above 25,000 feet, since there is no time at those altitudes to grab a mask and put it on, should decompression occur.

If there is a decompression, wouldn't the air pressure in the cabin compartment be greater than the air pressure in the cockpit? And since air tends to expand outwards, wouldn't that cause the cockpit door to slam shut (assuming that the cockpit door doesn't open into the cockpit).

EDIT: Nevermind. Looks like the door actually opens into the cockpit:

The cockpit voice recorder heard the faint breathing of the co-pilot as the plane descended. It would of certainly heard a broken window.

This is probably true.

[Vod]

All of this "was the copilot alive" could have been solved with video in the cockpit.

Unlike many other vehicles operating with heightened safety concerns, airline cockpits don't come with video surveillance. The reason, in part, is that airline pilots and their unions have argued vigorously against what they see as an invasion of privacy  that would not improve aviation safety.

How can you expect to have privacy when you are in charge of 150+ people's lives?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-27/why-the-final-moments-inside-the-germanwings-cockpit-are-heard-and-not-seen

[Agestorzrxx]

Lessons need to learnt from this horrific tragedy. There should be 3 people in the cockpit (all pilots) if one leaves the cockpit there is another in place at all times. Depression can happen to anyone at anytime- some recover quicker and for others it take years - more tests to be done more regularly for pilots who have already suffer from depression. This may or may not stop this from happening again but safeguards need to be in place. Focus need to be on safety than profits too.

[bitgeek]

Always fun to listen to these guys,,, always good analysis of major events.

https://www.noagendaplayer.com/listen/707/12-58

On the Germanwing Crash

I listened to the whole thing. It's actually an interesting point of view.
For those who didn't listen to the program, they pointed out that everything a pilot does is calculated by the computer and then if it agrees with the pilot it allows the plane to perform a maneuver.
There were cases when the computer decided to decrease altitude by itself, so it's possible the plane was going down by itself and the pilot couldn't just leave his seat to open the door as he was struggling with the controls.

Cockpit cameras are probably coming, it's just a matter of time.

[roadbits]

Why did the airlines not require their pilot's doctors to notify the airline if the pilot is unfit to fly?

[stonehedge]

Two things

- 2014 was actually the safest year on record for commercial flying if you exclude the shooting down of the plane over the Ukraine.  I know lots of civilians died but for the purposes of airline safety statistics, acts of war are generally excluded.

- It is grossly offensive to suggest that depression was the reason this plane was crashed and those people murdered.  It shows a misunderstanding of what depression is.  Whatever the reason is that the co-pilot crashed that plane, it wasn't simply because he had been treated for depression .  It could even have been a failure by his GP to taper his depression medication appropriately.  There is also a non-depression health related issue that will be reported in the coming days which may have been a contributing factor to his state of mind.

Suicide is never a rational act.  Attempting to rationalise it by using depression as a cause is at least partially misleading and the mass media (at least in the UK) has been shameful in its reporting.  

[u9y42]

Why did the airlines not require their pilot's doctors to notify the airline if the pilot is unfit to fly?

As previously mentioned, the periodical medical tests pilots go through don't usually include psychological assessment - and those that do include it, never do so in great detail.

Always fun to listen to these guys,,, always good analysis of major events.

https://www.noagendaplayer.com/listen/707/12-58

On the Germanwing Crash

I listened to the whole thing. It's actually an interesting point of view.
For those who didn't listen to the program, they pointed out that everything a pilot does is calculated by the computer and then if it agrees with the pilot it allows the plane to perform a maneuver.
There were cases when the computer decided to decrease altitude by itself, so it's possible the plane was going down by itself and the pilot couldn't just leave his seat to open the door as he was struggling with the controls.

Cockpit cameras are probably coming, it's just a matter of time.

I haven't listened to the program, but going by your description alone, it seems unlikely that was the case; the pilot was apparently calm enough to breathe normally, yet he completely failed to respond to those outside who were trying to open the door - then add to that the time this whole thing lasted, and the pilot's experience.