Protect yourself against Civil Asset Forfeiture

[D05GTO]

That's right!   They can seize your bank accounts, cars, house but can't take Bitcoins.  So the bank account is safe.

Now, I was reading an article that was put out recently and that goes hand and hand with the company 21 "Internet of Things".  You know that they will have some kind of smart hardware.

From the article
"Or maybe you're the physical goods type. Maybe you want your assets piled high and wide. In that case, what if the steering wheel of your Tesla wouldn't unlock unless the driver enters a private key? What if the electricity in your smarthouse wouldn't turn on without it?

This is the promise of smart property: physical goods equipped with computer chips which only offer full accessibility with the owner's private key."

Just something to think about.

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[Cult]

There will always be the possibility for a 'reset', this will not be adopted without such possibility, people cannot lost a private key and have their car, phone, fridge, computer, etc, completely unusable.

[HI-TEC99]

There will always be the possibility for a 'reset', this will not be adopted without such possibility, people cannot lost a private key and have their car, phone, fridge, computer, etc, completely unusable.

That's what annoys me about those biometric safes, they always have a backup method to open them using a key. If someone steals your key all the biometric security features are useless, your valuables will still get stolen. You're probably right, if they locked things with bitcoin keys they would always include a backup method of unlocking them using a real physical key.

[Cult]

There will always be the possibility for a 'reset', this will not be adopted without such possibility, people cannot lost a private key and have their car, phone, fridge, computer, etc, completely unusable.

That's what annoys me about those biometric safes, they always have a backup method to open them using a key. If someone steals your key all the biometric security features are useless, your valuables will still get stolen. You're probably right, if they locked things with bitcoin keys they would always include a backup method of unlocking them using a real physical key.

Although, it can be made hard enough to prevent common theft...

[BitcoinChica]

Crazy stuff. But I think over time taking a USB stick won't be too much to ask when it comes to police and once that .dat is found...

[jaysabi]

That's right!   They can seize your bank accounts, cars, house but can't take Bitcoins.  

Didn't they take Silk Road owner's bitcoins? Seems if they are determined to take your stuff, they will.

[Chef Ramsay]

Sen. Rand Paul on opposing Loretta Lynch nomination and civil asset forfeiture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdzFci2UrRg

[Bizmark13]

That's right!   They can seize your bank accounts, cars, house but can't take Bitcoins.  So the bank account is safe.

Now, I was reading an article that was put out recently and that goes hand and hand with the company 21 "Internet of Things".  You know that they will have some kind of smart hardware.

From the article
"Or maybe you're the physical goods type. Maybe you want your assets piled high and wide. In that case, what if the steering wheel of your Tesla wouldn't unlock unless the driver enters a private key? What if the electricity in your smarthouse wouldn't turn on without it?

This is the promise of smart property: physical goods equipped with computer chips which only offer full accessibility with the owner's private key."

Just something to think about.

Wouldn't it be easy to circumvent the security mechanism though? If a steering wheel is locked using a chip or the electricity in a smart house is controlled by a chip, it would be pretty trivial to simply yank it out and replace it with another one.

Most computers these days come with a security chip that can prevent access to anyone who doesn't provide the right password. It's usually possible to reset the password by physically de-soldering this chip from the motherboard and replacing it with a new one. A door that only opens when you provide the correct password is another example of a physical good that restricts access via application of cryptographic principles. In such a case, someone without a password could simply smash the door down.

[freequant]

The only way to protect yourself against the moral setback that comes with seizure of your property is not to protect your property (you can't) but to protect your mind (you can) by abandonning materialism. If you don't care about property, you won't bother seeking property, won't attach to property emotionally, and will therefore be safe from all and every attacks of that seek to wrong you at a materialistic level.

[jennings]

That's right!   They can seize your bank accounts, cars, house but can't take Bitcoins.  So the bank account is safe.

Now, I was reading an article that was put out recently and that goes hand and hand with the company 21 "Internet of Things".  You know that they will have some kind of smart hardware.

From the article
"Or maybe you're the physical goods type. Maybe you want your assets piled high and wide. In that case, what if the steering wheel of your Tesla wouldn't unlock unless the driver enters a private key? What if the electricity in your smarthouse wouldn't turn on without it?

This is the promise of smart property: physical goods equipped with computer chips which only offer full accessibility with the owner's private key."

Just something to think about.

Cant the gov just remove the "smart lock" and replace it?!?! 

[jaysabi]

The only way to protect yourself against the moral setback that comes with seizure of your property is not to protect your property (you can't) but to protect your mind (you can) by abandonning materialism. If you don't care about property, you won't bother seeking property, won't attach to property emotionally, and will therefore be safe from all and every attacks of that seek to wrong you at a materialistic level.

This logic can be extended to anything. The only way to protect yourself against being unjustly imprisoned is to abandon your attachment to your freedom. Doesn't that seem silly?

[jaysabi]

Sen. Rand Paul on opposing Loretta Lynch nomination and civil asset forfeiture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdzFci2UrRg

My husband BurtW and I have recently learned all about civil forfeiture and Bitcoins the hard way.  I've started a related thread at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1005634.0  

The feds will get your Bitcoins no matter what you do unless you are willing to spend time in a federal prison.  We have to end civil forfeiture.

Institute for Justice (http://www.ij.org/) has been filing, and winning, lawsuits all over the country related to civil forfeiture. It's a great organization.

[countryfree]

The solution is to spread your assets among several countries, without anyone knowing what you own on the other side of the border. This what I'm doing, as are all my friends and all my clients.

[Beliathon]

The solution is to spread your assets among several countries, without anyone knowing what you own on the other side of the border.

Sounds like a solution available only to the wealthiest ten percent or so.

What assets? My computer? My rolling papers? We the many have no assets. That's the problem.

Spreading your assets across borders won't help you when the many of every nation finally wake up and claim their fair share.

[coinits]

Microsoft accepts BTC - http://www.gizmag.com/microsoft-accepts-bitcoin/35209/

Sir Richard Branson of Virgin is invested in BTC. One of his employees, Beth Moses, is chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation - http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-foundation-standardise-bitcoin-symbol-code-next-year/

Winklevoss Twins - Bitcoin ETF Files to Sell 1 Million Shares (Nasdaq: COIN) - http://www.coindesk.com/winklevoss-twins-plan-regulated-us-bitcoin-exchange/

New York Stock Exchange invests $75 million into a Bitcoin startup called Coinbase - http://www.pymnts.com/news/2015/nyse-usaa-and-bbva-make-75m-coinbase-investment/#.VSOs4uHGGmw

I would ask the Feds if you need a license to exchange US Dollars for Canadian Dollars. Exchanging US Dollars for Bitcoin is the same principle. It is exchanging one form of currency for another. You do not need a license for that.

Investment is a ruse! I can 'invest' in US Dollars too. Do I need a license for that?

Hey Feds reading this. You are on the losing side. Your own fucking handlers are selling it in auction. Did they have a license? https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=US+Marshal+Service+sells+bitcoins

Wake the fuck up and come to the light before the truth revolution tosses you into the scrap heap of irrelevance.

[aurel57]

The solution is to spread your assets among several countries, without anyone knowing what you own on the other side of the border. This what I'm doing, as are all my friends and all my clients.

The problem is the US dollar is the world reserve capital of the world.. (For now that is) .... But the U.S. government has already made other counties banks do things in their country and if they don't follow the U.S.'s wishes then the U.S. Banking will no longer let them do business with them. Most other banks (and governments) have caved to this pressure. But now with what we seeing going on in China and with the U.S. financial problems we may very well see the world reserve money change from the dollar. At that point I will be glad that I have diversified and with BTC being part of that.

[dmwardjr]

The solution is to spread your assets among several countries, without anyone knowing what you own on the other side of the border.

Sounds like a solution available only to the wealthiest ten percent or so.

What assets? My computer? My rolling papers? We the many have no assets. That's the problem.

Spreading your assets across borders won't help you when the many of every nation finally wake up and claim their fair share.

You progressive, covetous twit!!!!  Take your "spread the wealth" covetous ass to another forum!!!

[BurtW]

Good news today:

http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/10/breaking-new-mexico-gov-abolishes-civil-asset-forfeiture-bill/

One down, 49 more to go.

[BurtW]

EVEN BETTER NEWS!

The Department of Justice announced this week that it’s suspending a controversial program that allows local police departments to keep a large portion of assets seized from citizens under federal law and funnel it into their own coffers.
 
The “equitable-sharing” program gives police the option of prosecuting asset forfeiture cases under federal instead of state law. Federal forfeiture policies are more permissive than many state policies, allowing police to keep up to 80 percent of assets they seize – even if the people they took from are never charged with a crime.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/justice-department-ends-key-civil-forfeiture-program

http://www.redstate.com/2015/12/27/civil-asset-forfeiture-congress/

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/12/28/1464215/-In-big-news-Very-significant-part-of-the-civil-forfeiture-program-is-shutting-down?detail=email

[franky1]

glad im not in america. 80%!! damn that is just thieving.. no wonder police love doing road checks and random stops..

did you get ALL your funds back, or just 20% and have you learned to not have private keys in places a search warrant can get access to..

EG not in plaintext format on paper. but using another form of storage involving your brain.. thus you can use your right to silence to not tell them how to decode the ciphered paper wallet

[BurtW]

glad im not in america. 80%!! damn that is just thieving.. no wonder police love doing road checks and random stops..

did you get ALL your funds back, or just 20% and have you learned to not have private keys in places a search warrant can get access to..

EG not in plaintext format on paper. but using another form of storage involving your brain.. thus you can use your right to silence to not tell them how to decode the ciphered paper wallet

All criminal charges against me and all the civil cases against all the property they seized were dropped in exchange for a "donation" of $40,000 cash and $40,000 in Bitcoins to the Federal civil asset forfeiture slush fund.

The Bitcoins taken from me by Homeland Security (plus some dust given to Homeland Security by the Bitcoin community) are still just sitting here:

https://blockchain.info/address/1Eu38i1DkRAPAJhSqbseVroJDpMRfJbAx3

The ending of equitable sharing is great news for the country in general and a step in the right direction but bad for me personally.

Under the nefarious equitable sharing program my local Sheriff's department was slated to receive up to 80% of the funds taken from me once my Bitcoins were auctioned off.

I had hoped to argue that since my family was the only victim in the case the local sheriff should return to me his share of the take in the theft of my property as victim compensation.  That might have lead to the return of up to 80% of the funds taken from me.  However, now that the equitable sharing program has been terminated I would have to argue the victim angle directly with Homeland Security and the Federal Justice Department.

More expensive and much less likely to work.

Yes, this is just a step in the right direction but it is a very big step.

It will not end the practice of civil asset forfeiture but it will stop local and state law enforcement from helping the feds steal in those states (like Colorado where I live) where civil asset forfeiture is not legal by state law.

[bryant.coleman]

The solution is to spread your assets among several countries, without anyone knowing what you own on the other side of the border. This what I'm doing, as are all my friends and all my clients.

Spreading your assets in a large number of countries or territories invites additional risks. In case you are under incarceration / house arrest in a particular country, then it becomes impossible to bring back the money stashed abroad in a reasonable time frame. Also, you have to worry about the legal formalities in so many jurisdictions.

[Raize]

Here's a link directly to the PDF that was sent out to law enforcement:
http://www.theiacp.org/portals/0/documents/pdfs/RescissionImpactonEqutiableSharing122115.pdf

You can confirm the link is legit using the links Burt added above. I'd recommend one do that for any PDF that is directly linked off this forum.

I am a bit confused though, because it sounds like they would have rather have kept this program going, which is a bit disturbing. Don't they realize this is basically no different than highway robbery in a lot of cases? I thought we had gov't in order to stop highway robbery, not perpetuate it?

[franky1]

so they have the 186btc seized... and ontop of that, are they wanting $40k cash and approx 93btc as a bribe as a separate payment??..

or are they classing that 186btc as the $40k $40k(btc) bribe?

time i double check my coins are stored in a location not linked to my name so no search warrant can compromise them..

and just leave 3btc to my name..

[BurtW]

so they have the 186btc seized... and ontop of that, are they wanting $40k cash and approx 93btc as a bribe as a separate payment??..

or are they classing that 186btc as the $40k $40k(btc) bribe?

time i double check my coins are stored in a location not linked to my name so no search warrant can compromise them..

and just leave 3btc to my name..

The 186 BTC sitting here:

https://blockchain.info/address/1Eu38i1DkRAPAJhSqbseVroJDpMRfJbAx3

were worth about $40,000 at the time they kept them (about $220 per BTC at that time).  In addition to keeping this 186 BTC they also kept $40,000 USD that they had seized.  They returned everything else: all my personal computers, my wife's computers, all my corporate computers, all the memory cards they took from our cameras, the cell phone they seized, all the corporate financial paperwork and receipts, etc. and dropped all criminal charges against me and all civil cases against all the seized property.

They even returned my copy of the United States Constitution that they had seized and placed into evidence!

[Syke]

They even returned my copy of the United States Constitution that they had seized and placed into evidence!

Of course they returned that, they consider it to be worthless.

[jbreher]

EVEN BETTER NEWS!

The Department of Justice announced this week that it’s suspending a controversial program that allows local police departments to keep a large portion of assets seized from citizens under federal law and funnel it into their own coffers.
 
The “equitable-sharing” program gives police the option of prosecuting asset forfeiture cases under federal instead of state law. Federal forfeiture policies are more permissive than many state policies, allowing police to keep up to 80 percent of assets they seize – even if the people they took from are never charged with a crime.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/justice-department-ends-key-civil-forfeiture-program

http://www.redstate.com/2015/12/27/civil-asset-forfeiture-congress/

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/12/28/1464215/-In-big-news-Very-significant-part-of-the-civil-forfeiture-program-is-shutting-down?detail=email

This is good news indeed. However, not a time to rest on our laurels. The reason this program was cut was that congress voted to defund it. There was not underlying legislation that made it clear that such actions would no longer be legal, it is just that the money for running the program was abated. If the underlying law is not changed, then it is almost inevitable that a future rebudgeting will restore these funds, and the program will be reinstated.

eta: As if to underscore my point, the doc that Raize linked contains this gem:

By deferring equitable sharing payments now, we preserve our ability to resume equitable sharing payments at a later date should the budget picture improve.

As an aside, I revel in the doublespeak of "equitable sharing" being used to identify this brand of legalistic theft.

Also eta: I did not realize you were working on a plan to be identified as the only victim in this case, and the doctrine of victim compensation being employed to regain some portion of your assets. I hope that the door has not slammed shut on this matter.

[BurtW]

I did not realize you were working on a plan to be identified as the only victim in this case, and the doctrine of victim compensation being employed to regain some portion of your assets.

Just another of our many longer term ideas.  I really want to confront the Sheriff at some point.  I would like to ask him exactly how much the Boulder County Sheriff's department spent supporting the many undercover Bitcoin buy/sell operations in the Homeland Security "operation Avalanche" against Bitcoin traders.

And then follow up with how much he got, or hoped to get, and now since equitable sharing has been suspended he will no longer get back from the Feds for the hundreds of wasted man-hours supporting their failed operation.

Was it worth it Mr. Pelle?

I bet he will think more than twice before supporting any future Homeland Security wild goose chases - especially since he now knows there is no chance of getting any funds from any federal asset forfeitures from any such operations.