DASH Collapsing Monero UP

[iCEBREAKER]

Over the last month Monero has broken out over and held up at 0.003, while Darkcoin tested and failed to maintain 0.021.  

Both resistance points are roughly triple their respective coin's monthly low:



Monero's gains are based on a sustainable staircase pattern of rises to new highs followed by periods of consolidation, driven by excitement about the immanent DB and a blossoming ecosystem of value-adding services.



OTOH, Darkcoin only enjoyed a brief blow-off top because of an ill-conceived rebrand that succeeded only in driving off vertoe, one of their last three two core devs.

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[iCEBREAKER]

Preserved.

[hodlmybtc]

Stop with the countless useless XMR vs DRK threads.

There is already a 60+ page thread to discuss it.

[iCEBREAKER]

Stop with the countless useless XMR vs DRK threads.

There is already a 60+ page thread to discuss it.

That one is about technical/crypto/community comparison.

This thread is about economics and markets.

Maybe you should make a 'Are there too many XMR vs DRK threads?' thead.

And have a poll.   

[Febo]

Over the last month Monero has broken out over and held up at 0.003, while Darkcoin tested and failed to maintain 0.021. 

Over past 4 months Monero price more then tripled and also demand on Poloniex increased by 5 and supply decreased by over 3 times. I know since i did not not check it in past 4 months. So maybe i should go away from it for the next 4 months

[jabo38]

Preserved.

Reserved?

[GTO911]

I feel this is a useless hype thread, please try to contain your excitement

[e-coinomist]

Monero's gains are based on a sustainable staircase pattern of rises to new highs followed by periods of consolidation,
driven by excitement about the immanent DB and a blossoming ecosystem of value-adding services.

Made my day

DB ready, is it true?

[tifozi]

Preserved.

Reserved?

Mummified ?

[stonehedge]

Good luck Monero!  You only have to quintuple in value to catch up with Dash! 

[e-coinomist]

Good luck Monero!  You only have to quintuple in value to catch up with Dash! 

Argueably DASH presents a multitude of daily trade volume and some impressive array of trading sites and exchange pairings. You can flip through the list of 30 entries here http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/darkcoin/#markets
On Bitfinex there is a direct DASH/USD market, and additionally BTER offers with DASH/CNY a bridge into China (however Bter is flagged as beeing risky on my landmap).

[stonehedge]

Good luck Monero!  You only have to quintuple in value to catch up with Dash! 

Argueably DASH presents a multitude of daily trade volume and some impressive array of trading sites and exchange pairings. You can flip through the list of 30 entries here http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/darkcoin/#markets
On Bitfinex there is a direct DASH/USD market, and additionally BTER offers with DASH/CNY a bridge into China (however Bter is flagged as beeing risky on my landmap).

And DASH/EUR and DASH/GBP pairings at a couple of exchange based in London too.

I think daily volume for DASH has been hitting $250,000 recently...not big money but nice nonetheless.

[Gladimor]

Well one thing for certain, trading volume for XMR has exceeded that of DASH (900+ compared to 880+).

[GTO911]

I smell azz burning 

[iCEBREAKER]

Good luck Monero!  You only have to quintuple in value to catch up with Dash! 

Thanks stoney!

At this rate, we'll be neck-and-neck with you dastardly dashers very Soon^TM.   

[iCEBREAKER]

OH MY!  Dark-Coin collapsing on volume about equal to Monero UPPING!



This is beautiful.   

[From Above]

so this means something like dashcoin and munero are both intertwined coins projects?
maybe u guys should merge into one dashero or something and turn hate into a great love

[nzminer]

Monero is more private than DRK, requires no masternodes and actually works!
The DRK community had so many trolls spreading so much FUD on Monero and XC last year, but now things are coming back up again.

[iCEBREAKER]

XMR still upping.  Dark-Coin still collapsing under heavy volume:



DASH bagholders are dumping their DigitalTrash like it's garbage pickup day.

You know things are bad when you see the CEO of THE DARKCOIN FOUNDATION INC. say this:

Simply based on the lack of a proper driving force or incentive structure, the project has little chance of success in our eyes and I'll be unwinding my position over the next few weeks.

[iCEBREAKER]

Shorting Dash is fun and profitable.  Shorting Monero is stressful and dangerous.

[kazuki49]

Good riddance, they are now desperately harassing fluffypony on twitter for calling their scam out: https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544

[illodin]

Good riddance, they are now desperately harassing fluffypony on twitter for calling their scam out: https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544

Calling out someone for lying is now harassing? Do you know what a premine is?

[iCEBREAKER]

Good riddance, they are now desperately harassing fluffypony on twitter for calling their scam out: https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544

DashHoles get very angry and aggressive when you call out their scam.  They are intensely interested in their critics' personally identifiable information, and often allude to negative consequences for enemies of their cargo cult.

I wonder if they are the ones gmax reported making death threats, and that's why he's not clearing up the issue of who offered to pay him to use his name for marketing Dash's snake oil.

[iCEBREAKER]

Good riddance, they are now desperately harassing fluffypony on twitter for calling their scam out: https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544

Calling out someone for lying is now harassing? Do you know what a premine is?

You know you've gone off the reservation when you have to put in "this is not a threat, it just sounds like one" disclaimers in your clearly threatening posts.  EG:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1006273.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12057588#msg12057588

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12023555#msg12023555

As if a "this is not a threat it just sounds like one" disclaimer is going to impress a judge (or probation officer).  

[illodin]

Good riddance, they are now desperately harassing fluffypony on twitter for calling their scam out: https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544

Calling out someone for lying is now harassing? Do you know what a premine is?

You know you've gone off the reservation when you have to put in "this is not a thread, it just sounds like one" disclaimers in your clearly threatening posts.  EG:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1006273.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12057588#msg12057588

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12023555#msg12023555

As if a "this is not a threat it just sounds like one" disclaimer is going to impress a judge (or probation officer).   

What that has to do with lying about DASH having a premine?

[iCEBREAKER]

Good riddance, they are now desperately harassing fluffypony on twitter for calling their scam out: https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544

Calling out someone for lying is now harassing? Do you know what a premine is?

You know you've gone off the reservation when you have to put in "this is not a thread, it just sounds like one" disclaimers in your clearly threatening posts.

As if a "this is not a threat it just sounds like one" disclaimer is going to impress a judge (or probation officer).   

What that has to do with lying about DASH having a premine?

DASH clearly had a premine because the dev mined millions of coins before releasing the software to the public, in contradiction of his earlier statements.

Besides, calling someone a liar is completely different than saying "we know where you live, watch your back."

You DashHoles have done that more than once.  If Dash is funded by gamblers and mob lawyers, it shows here:

https://dashtalk.org/threads/kyle-hagan-is-no-longer-part-of-the-development-team.3225/#post-33461

Kyle needs to understand that many have invested their time and money in this technology and any threat to this investment will not be taken lightly nor will be ignored. A person who has a known location, known identity, young children and other responsibilities should act smarter and avoid making unwanted attention by getting drunk and talking shit. That's all I can say publicly about this issue and urge Kyle Hagan be smart about what he does and talks in the future.

And here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12057588#msg12057588

this is not a threat but a fact of life - screw over enough people and some of those people just might come looking for you - if you think you live in a country where you can't be touched, LOL - depends on how hard you fucked somebody over - it is what it is mate

And here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12057588#msg12057588

You are bold man: being known and identifiable in RL by the community and still harassing, and making such accusations...

[illodin]

Good riddance, they are now desperately harassing fluffypony on twitter for calling their scam out: https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544

Calling out someone for lying is now harassing? Do you know what a premine is?

You know you've gone off the reservation when you have to put in "this is not a thread, it just sounds like one" disclaimers in your clearly threatening posts.

As if a "this is not a threat it just sounds like one" disclaimer is going to impress a judge (or probation officer).   

What that has to do with lying about DASH having a premine?

DASH clearly had a premine because the dev mined millions of coins before releasing the software to the public, in contradiction of his earlier statements.

Coin was released, mining started. Not the other way around. Do you know what a premine is?

[iCEBREAKER]

Coin was released, mining started. Not the other way around. Do you know what a premine is?

The coin was released only to the dev's VMs.

"You want me to trust your assertion that you accidentally mined 2 million coins and didn't relaunch to validate your claim of a fair launch?" says Institutional Investor.

"But it was an accident!" says Evan.

"Get out of my office." says Institutional Investor.

Let's take a look at the first 5 h of Darkcoin DASH (XCoin at that time)...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4589219#msg4589219
Edufield said (after failed launch) that he will wait the next day to launch DRK (XCoin at that time) it is 11 pm.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4591407#msg4591407
Edufield disregard windows wallet and daemon and hurry up his launch, presumably to not have windows miners on board.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4592827#msg4592827
Edufield say he added four nodes for the launch at 4 am (5 hours later, despite his promise to wait). The 4 nodes from Edufield are 3 amazons AWS + another unknown (whois IP). Launch started at 3h54 am.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4593601#msg4593601
Edufield said the github version was not updated, nobody could compile and only Edufield was able to mine until that time. It is 5.09 am and Edufield instamined alone 1153 block at 500 DRK + 60 block at reward 277 = 593120 DRK for him alone in about 1 hour.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4593987#msg4593987
No windows wallet confirmed at 5h47 am, despite a user attempt to make one avaiable, that Edufield dismissed quickly.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4594096#msg4594096
Illodin, understand dev has instamined alot of coin.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4595573#msg4595573
From this list of nodes, at 8h34 am (4h40 after launch) there were 50 Amazon AWS node and 50 microsoft cloud computing instamining DRK (checked using IP whois service). This is 100/124 nodes using cloud computing to instamine DRK. We are at block 2870 and block reward is 500. From block 1153-1729 block reward is 277. After that it is 500 again hence 2294 block at 500 + 576 at 277 = 1306552 DRK (worth about 13M$ now) were instamined in less than 5 hour by Edufield and coworkers using about 100 cloud mining instances. Edufield himself instamined in not even 5 h from 600K to 1169K DRK ((1306K-600K)*100/124 + 600K) depending how many of the 100 cloud mining instance were its own. All this while having purposefully set the difficult ridiculously low and block reward 100 times what it is now.

From 6M$ - 13M$ in 5 h, Edufield did some lucrative work here!

Edufield is nominee for the Master Scammer 2014 award!

[nzminer]

Correct me if im wrong, but i always thought it was an instamine rather than a premine, still im annoyed i didnt mine them earlier or at least buy a few because i could have had fun while it lasted and dumped the whole lot in the beginning lol.

[illodin]

Coin was released, mining started. Not the other way around. Do you know what a premine is?

The coin was released only to the dev's VMs.

Where did you get that idea?

(the "investigations" you pasted don't prove that)

[illodin]

Correct me if im wrong, but i always thought it was an instamine rather than a premine, still im annoyed i didnt mine them earlier or at least buy a few because i could have had fun while it lasted and dumped the whole lot in the beginning lol.

Yea you could buy 10k batches for 0.25 BTC in the first weeks. Probably a reason why icebreaker is all butt-hurt for missing the train.

[iCEBREAKER]

Correct me if im wrong, but i always thought it was an instamine rather than a premine, still im annoyed i didnt mine them earlier or at least buy a few because i could have had fun while it lasted and dumped the whole lot in the beginning lol.

1) Dash's developer, Evan Duffield, released Dash before it's intended release date(Which means the instamine could also be partly counted as a premine)

Exactly.  The coins which were mined previous to the announced release date are obviously premined, whether or not they were included in the genesis block.

^this makes the most sense. If I hold an election and votes cast in the first hours are worth more than votes cast afterwords, the vote would always have an asterisk next to it in the history books if the election date was moved up in the middle of the night and/or only those with rare credentials or at the right location were able to vote.

[iCEBREAKER]

you could buy 10k batches for 0.25 BTC in the first weeks. Probably a reason why icebreaker is all butt-hurt for missing the trainwreck.

I don't want any Digital Trash, except to short it:

[illodin]

Correct me if im wrong, but i always thought it was an instamine rather than a premine, still im annoyed i didnt mine them earlier or at least buy a few because i could have had fun while it lasted and dumped the whole lot in the beginning lol.

1) Dash's developer, Evan Duffield, released Dash before it's intended release date(Which means the instamine could also be partly counted as a premine)

Exactly.  The coins which were mined previous to the announced release date are obviously premined, whether or not they were included in the genesis block.

^this makes the most sense. If I hold an election and votes cast in the first hours are worth more than votes cast afterwords, the vote would always have an asterisk next to it in the history books if the election date was moved up in the middle of the night and/or only those with rare credentials or at the right location were able to vote.

Uhm you can't just go and redefine well established terms whenever it serves your agenda. Just like you can't say that 2 layer design is good if you like the coin, and bad if you don't like the coin.

[PoS]

Coin was released, mining started. Not the other way around. Do you know what a premine is?

A intentional crippled coin was released, the few miners who actually where able to mine the crypto-technical nonsense algo where sent to bed after all went way-hey as planed. Once certain the last miners was sound asleep the dev fired up his VM's to premined 2 million coins and not wait as promised to have a fair re-launch.
Do you know what a premine is?

[rangedriver]

I think the collapse of Dash is a turning point in the way we all process projects and coins that aren't fairly conceived and that are heavily dependant on 'thy great leader'.

Hopefully this marks the last of a bad bunch to have a brief period in the limelight.

[iCEBREAKER]

Correct me if im wrong, but i always thought it was an instamine rather than a premine, still im annoyed i didnt mine them earlier or at least buy a few because i could have had fun while it lasted and dumped the whole lot in the beginning lol.

1) Dash's developer, Evan Duffield, released Dash before it's intended release date(Which means the instamine could also be partly counted as a premine)

Exactly.  The coins which were mined previous to the announced release date are obviously premined, whether or not they were included in the genesis block.

^this makes the most sense. If I hold an election and votes cast in the first hours are worth more than votes cast afterwords, the vote would always have an asterisk next to it in the history books if the election date was moved up in the middle of the night and/or only those with rare credentials or at the right location were able to vote.

Uhm you can't just go and redefine well established terms whenever it serves your agenda. Just like you can't say that 2 layer design is good if you like the coin, and bad if you don't like the coin.

You are the one trying to define "premine" so strictly it excludes Dash, just to sneak past CMC's shitcoin filter.

My logic is sound, as generalizethis and Prosperityforall agreed:

The coins which were mined previous to the announced release date are obviously premined

[canth]

Good riddance, they are now desperately harassing fluffypony on twitter for calling their scam out: https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544

Calling out someone for lying is now harassing? Do you know what a premine is?

You know you've gone off the reservation when you have to put in "this is not a thread, it just sounds like one" disclaimers in your clearly threatening posts.

As if a "this is not a threat it just sounds like one" disclaimer is going to impress a judge (or probation officer).   

What that has to do with lying about DASH having a premine?

DASH clearly had a premine because the dev mined millions of coins before releasing the software to the public, in contradiction of his earlier statements.

Coin was released, mining started. Not the other way around. Do you know what a premine is?

Dude...give it up. The explanations for the ridiculous insta/ninja/pre/insert-your-unoptimal-word/mine are a joke. Renaming it to dash hasn't covered up any of the gaping sores on this dead body. A year from now, your shit won't even make it to the first page of coinmarketcap.com

[smooth]

You know things are bad when you see the CEO of THE DARKCOIN FOUNDATION INC. say this:

Simply based on the lack of a proper driving force or incentive structure, the project has little chance of success in our eyes and I'll be unwinding my position over the next few weeks.

ROFL tabloid headlines FTW.

You know of course that he said that about a different coin

[smooth]

Good riddance, they are now desperately harassing fluffypony on twitter for calling their scam out: https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544

Calling out someone for lying is now harassing? Do you know what a premine is?

You know you've gone off the reservation when you have to put in "this is not a thread, it just sounds like one" disclaimers in your clearly threatening posts.

As if a "this is not a threat it just sounds like one" disclaimer is going to impress a judge (or probation officer).   

What that has to do with lying about DASH having a premine?

DASH clearly had a premine because the dev mined millions of coins before releasing the software to the public, in contradiction of his earlier statements.

Coin was released, mining started. Not the other way around. Do you know what a premine is?

If that's your best argument you should sell into the ongoing collapse before you lose it all.

[iCEBREAKER]

You know things are bad when you see the CEO of THE DARKCOIN FOUNDATION INC. say this:

Simply based on the lack of a proper driving force or incentive structure, the project has little chance of success in our eyes and I'll be unwinding my position over the next few weeks.

ROFL tabloid headlines FTW.

You know of course that he said that about a different coin

Heh.  You must be *so much* fun at parties, Captain Bringdown...   

[nzminer]

DASH is taking a CRASH! lol
Monero is looking like its in quite a good position right now...

[illodin]

The coins which were mined previous to the announced release date are obviously premined[/b]

Repeating your illogicalities don't make them any more valid. Don't try to redefine well established terms whenever it serves your agenda. Just like you can't say that 2 layer design is good if you hold like the coin, and bad if you don't hold like the coin.

[illodin]

Good riddance, they are now desperately harassing fluffypony on twitter for calling their scam out: https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544

Calling out someone for lying is now harassing? Do you know what a premine is?

You know you've gone off the reservation when you have to put in "this is not a thread, it just sounds like one" disclaimers in your clearly threatening posts.

As if a "this is not a threat it just sounds like one" disclaimer is going to impress a judge (or probation officer).   

What that has to do with lying about DASH having a premine?

DASH clearly had a premine because the dev mined millions of coins before releasing the software to the public, in contradiction of his earlier statements.

Coin was released, mining started. Not the other way around. Do you know what a premine is?

If that's your best argument you should sell into the ongoing collapse before you lose it all.

All this discussion started from whether DASH had a premine or not. Which it didn't (unless you're ready to redefine certain well established terms and their meanings). I'm not trying to argue anything else.

[generalizethis]

Good riddance, they are now desperately harassing fluffypony on twitter for calling their scam out: https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544

Calling out someone for lying is now harassing? Do you know what a premine is?

You know you've gone off the reservation when you have to put in "this is not a thread, it just sounds like one" disclaimers in your clearly threatening posts.

As if a "this is not a threat it just sounds like one" disclaimer is going to impress a judge (or probation officer).   

What that has to do with lying about DASH having a premine?

DASH clearly had a premine because the dev mined millions of coins before releasing the software to the public, in contradiction of his earlier statements.

Coin was released, mining started. Not the other way around. Do you know what a premine is?

If that's your best argument you should sell into the ongoing collapse before you lose it all.

All this discussion started from whether DASH had a premine or not. Which it didn't (unless you're ready to redefine certain well established terms and their meanings). I'm not trying to argue anything else.

Words change all the time, but niggling over whether dash was premined or fastmined without the knowledge of the community is like arguing over if Justin Beiber is terrible or mediocre--the result is the same--history will forget the argument.

[iCEBREAKER]

The coins which were mined previous to the announced release date are obviously premined[/b]

Repeating your illogicalities don't make them any more valid. Don't try to redefine well established terms whenever it serves your agenda. Just like you can't say that 2 layer design is good if you hold like the coin, and bad if you don't hold like the coin.

Did seriously just compare trusted 3rd party run Masternodes to trustless sidechains/Lightning?

That's the funniest thing I've heard since the news about Bitfinex dropping DASH.   

[camu6]

While Dash is getting booted from bitfinex because of low volume, XMR is having a  >700 BTC 24h volume. 

[illodin]

Good riddance, they are now desperately harassing fluffypony on twitter for calling their scam out: https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544

Calling out someone for lying is now harassing? Do you know what a premine is?

You know you've gone off the reservation when you have to put in "this is not a thread, it just sounds like one" disclaimers in your clearly threatening posts.

As if a "this is not a threat it just sounds like one" disclaimer is going to impress a judge (or probation officer).   

What that has to do with lying about DASH having a premine?

DASH clearly had a premine because the dev mined millions of coins before releasing the software to the public, in contradiction of his earlier statements.

Coin was released, mining started. Not the other way around. Do you know what a premine is?

If that's your best argument you should sell into the ongoing collapse before you lose it all.

All this discussion started from whether DASH had a premine or not. Which it didn't (unless you're ready to redefine certain well established terms and their meanings). I'm not trying to argue anything else.

Words change all the time, but niggling over whether dash was premined or fastmined without the knowledge of the community is like arguing over if Justin Beiber is terrible or mediocre--the result is the same--history will forget the argument.

You can call the launch ninjamine, fastmine, or instamine, and I won't complain as those terms are broad enough to be considered. There are terms you can already use, so why do you insist on using a specific non-fitting term then unless it's for your agenda?

[smooth]

Good riddance, they are now desperately harassing fluffypony on twitter for calling their scam out: https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544

Calling out someone for lying is now harassing? Do you know what a premine is?

You know you've gone off the reservation when you have to put in "this is not a thread, it just sounds like one" disclaimers in your clearly threatening posts.

As if a "this is not a threat it just sounds like one" disclaimer is going to impress a judge (or probation officer).   

What that has to do with lying about DASH having a premine?

DASH clearly had a premine because the dev mined millions of coins before releasing the software to the public, in contradiction of his earlier statements.

Coin was released, mining started. Not the other way around. Do you know what a premine is?

If that's your best argument you should sell into the ongoing collapse before you lose it all.

All this discussion started from whether DASH had a premine or not. Which it didn't (unless you're ready to redefine certain well established terms and their meanings). I'm not trying to argue anything else.

Words change all the time, but niggling over whether dash was premined or fastmined without the knowledge of the community is like arguing over if Justin Beiber is terrible or mediocre--the result is the same--history will forget the argument.

You can call the launch ninjamine, fastmine, or instamine, and I won't complain as those terms are broad enough to be considered. There are terms you can already use, so why do you insist on using a specific non-fitting term then unless it's for your agenda?

None of those words clearly describe launching -- with an extreme instamine, which makes the exact launch time rather important -- before the promised launch time. Maybe there isn't an established term for it.

[illodin]

The coins which were mined previous to the announced release date are obviously premined[/b]

Repeating your illogicalities don't make them any more valid. Don't try to redefine well established terms whenever it serves your agenda. Just like you can't say that 2 layer design is good if you hold like the coin, and bad if you don't hold like the coin.

Did seriously just compare trusted 3rd party run Masternodes to trustless sidechains/Lightning?

That's the funniest thing I've heard since the news about Bitfinex dropping DASH.   

It began with another trollero claiming 2 layer design sucks, and you backing him up, while simultaneously saying 2 layer design rulezz in another thread.

Another prime example of you making things up according to your agenda is claiming in that other thread that increasing a variable in the source code makes the program larger.

[smooth]

trollero

LOL, those retarded dash trolls who can't even come up with a wittier way to insult us than name calling are rotting your brain illodin. Get out now before you start talking about monetary properties and cryptographic bookkeeping systems.

[generalizethis]

Good riddance, they are now desperately harassing fluffypony on twitter for calling their scam out: https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544

Calling out someone for lying is now harassing? Do you know what a premine is?

You know you've gone off the reservation when you have to put in "this is not a thread, it just sounds like one" disclaimers in your clearly threatening posts.

As if a "this is not a threat it just sounds like one" disclaimer is going to impress a judge (or probation officer).   

What that has to do with lying about DASH having a premine?

DASH clearly had a premine because the dev mined millions of coins before releasing the software to the public, in contradiction of his earlier statements.

Coin was released, mining started. Not the other way around. Do you know what a premine is?

If that's your best argument you should sell into the ongoing collapse before you lose it all.

All this discussion started from whether DASH had a premine or not. Which it didn't (unless you're ready to redefine certain well established terms and their meanings). I'm not trying to argue anything else.

Words change all the time, but niggling over whether dash was premined or fastmined without the knowledge of the community is like arguing over if Justin Beiber is terrible or mediocre--the result is the same--history will forget the argument.

You can call the launch ninjamine, fastmine, or instamine, and I won't complain as those terms are broad enough to be considered. There are terms you can already use, so why do you insist on using a specific non-fitting term then unless it's for your agenda?

None of those words clearly describe launching -- with an extreme instamine, which makes the exact launch time rather important -- before the promised launch time. Maybe there isn't an established term for it.

How about we call it a dashmine?

[illodin]

trollero

LOL, those retarded dash trolls who can't even come up with a wittier way to insult us than name calling are rotting your brain illodin. Get out now before you start talking about monetary properties and cryptographic bookkeeping systems.

You are talking as if I had locked myself in one room unable of being in multiple rooms simultaneously.

Regarding "trollero", I reserve that term to only a few special individuals.

[canth]

trollero

LOL, those retarded dash trolls who can't even come up with a wittier way to insult us than name calling are rotting your brain illodin. Get out now before you start talking about monetary properties and cryptographic bookkeeping systems.

You are talking as if I had locked myself in one room unable of being in multiple rooms simultaneously.

Regarding "trollero", I reserve that term to only a few special individuals.

So how much dash did you dashmine in the first 48 hours? I hope you got a million or so - that would explain the attraction. Otherwise...

[Nxtblg]

you could buy 10k batches for 0.25 BTC in the first weeks. Probably a reason why icebreaker is all butt-hurt for missing the trainwreck.

I don't want any Digital Trash, except to short it:

So you're using Polo's margin feature? A while ago, I looked into the Margin feature to see if it would be worthwhile to lend. But the orderbooks for the margin-loan markets - all of them - showed only offers to lend but not bids from borrowers. All supply of loan capital; no demand for any. So, I figured at the time that the Margin loan market was a nothingburger.

Has that changed? Is there any "volume" in Polo's leanding market?

[Nxtblg]

Words change all the time, but niggling over whether dash was premined or fastmined without the knowledge of the community is like arguing over if Justin Beiber is terrible or mediocre--the result is the same--history will forget the argument.

Actually, it's more like arguing whether Facebook's IPO was deliberately botched by crookery or if it was accidentally botched through incompetence. Either way, the cloud it cast over Facebook stock was enough to drive FB from ~$40 to ~$25. I remember this because I was tempted to pick up a few shares around $25.

Given how FB has performed subsequently, do you think anyone cares about its "failed IPO?"

Posted to offer a glimpse of the wide wide world outside of this here echo chamber...

[smooth]

you could buy 10k batches for 0.25 BTC in the first weeks. Probably a reason why icebreaker is all butt-hurt for missing the trainwreck.

I don't want any Digital Trash, except to short it:

So you're using Polo's margin feature? A while ago, I looked into the Margin feature to see if it would be worthwhile to lend. But the orderbooks for the margin-loan markets - all of them - showed only offers to lend but not bids from borrowers. All supply of loan capital; no demand for any. So, I figured at the time that the Margin loan market was a nothingburger.

Has that changed? Is there any "volume" in Polo's leanding market?

I don't think their engine shows borrower bids under normal conditions. As soon as someone wants to short, their order is filled by a lender. Maybe that would change if there weren't ample coins available to lend.

[generalizethis]

Words change all the time, but niggling over whether dash was premined or fastmined without the knowledge of the community is like arguing over if Justin Beiber is terrible or mediocre--the result is the same--history will forget the argument.

Actually, it's more like arguing whether Facebook's IPO was deliberately botched by crookery or if it was accidentally botched through incompetence. Either way, the cloud it cast over Facebook stock was enough to drive FB from ~$40 to ~$25. I remember this because I was tempted to pick up a few shares around $25.

Given how FB has performed subsequently, do you think anyone cares about its "failed IPO?"

Posted to offer a glimpse of the wide wide world outside of this here echo chamber...

We don't know what happened to Facebook, but like Beiber, we know why dash sucks and are just waiting for the world to realize it. 

[Nxtblg]

you could buy 10k batches for 0.25 BTC in the first weeks. Probably a reason why icebreaker is all butt-hurt for missing the trainwreck.

I don't want any Digital Trash, except to short it:

So you're using Polo's margin feature? A while ago, I looked into the Margin feature to see if it would be worthwhile to lend. But the orderbooks for the margin-loan markets - all of them - showed only offers to lend but not bids from borrowers. All supply of loan capital; no demand for any. So, I figured at the time that the Margin loan market was a nothingburger.

Has that changed? Is there any "volume" in Polo's leanding market?

I don't think their engine shows borrower bids under normal conditions. As soon as someone wants to short, their order is filled by a lender. Maybe that would change if there weren't ample coins available to lend.

Thanks. As you prolly guessed, I was interested in entering the market as a lender. It would have given me an excuse to buy some Monero.

[iCEBREAKER]

Did seriously just compare trusted 3rd party run Masternodes to trustless sidechains/Lightning?

That's the funniest thing I've heard since the news about Bitfinex dropping DASH.   

It began with another trollero claiming 2 layer design sucks, and you backing him up, while simultaneously saying 2 layer design rulezz in another thread.

Another prime example of you making things up according to your agenda is claiming in that other thread that increasing a variable in the source code makes the program larger.

Dash's 2 layer design is nothing like sidechains/Lightning on Bitcoin.

It's a very simple distinction.  Dash uses trusted 3rd party masternodes (bad idea), while BTC's Layer 2 is trustless thanks to opcodes like CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY and CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY.

The market is too smart to ignore such an all-important difference in quality.  That's why you're getting #rekt:



Bam!  Right down the DashHole...   

[illodin]

Did seriously just compare trusted 3rd party run Masternodes to trustless sidechains/Lightning?

That's the funniest thing I've heard since the news about Bitfinex dropping DASH.   

It began with another trollero claiming 2 layer design sucks, and you backing him up, while simultaneously saying 2 layer design rulezz in another thread.

Another prime example of you making things up according to your agenda is claiming in that other thread that increasing a variable in the source code makes the program larger.

Dash's 2 layer design is nothing like sidechains/Lightning on Bitcoin.

It's a very simple distinction.  Dash uses trusted 3rd party masternodes (bad idea), while BTC's Layer 2 is trustless thanks to opcodes like CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY and CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY.

Who said they were the same? You can't even keep up with your own strawmen and lies.

[BlueYozakuraBTC]

Where are the monero faucets? 

[iCEBREAKER]

Where are the monero faucets? 

You can get free Monero by shorting Dash.  It's the best trade pair since long gold short miners.



DASH Collapsing  Monero UP...now more than ever!

[americanpegasus]

Waiting for the inevitable "Monero collapsing.  Monero up!" topic. 

[americanpegasus]

There's a few "parity parties" I'm waiting on.  I think Ethereum will come first, and Dash won't be far behind.  Litecoin will come next. 
 
Eventually we'll have a bitcoin parity party too.   

[HeroCat]

Dash is slightly more perspective than Monero, which have strong Monero fan network 

[razen489]

Jury is still out there
https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/dash
https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/monero

[aleix]

FUD vs. reality

Newcomers, do your own research.

[generalizethis]

FUD vs. reality

Newcomers, do your own research.

Even the sun shines on a dog's ass some days.

[qwizzie]

Some people think that the truth can be hidden with a little cover-up and decoration. But as time goes by, what is true is revealed,
and what is fake fades away.
- Ismail Haniyeh

Truth is that Dash is here to stay and will only grow stronger.

[aleix]

Monero people need to troll harder Dash to succeed, lame attempts like this lousy thread aren't working.

  

[generalizethis]

Some people think that the truth can be hidden with a little cover-up and decoration. But as time goes by, what is true is revealed,
and what is fake fades away.
- Ismail Haniyeh

Truth is that Dash is here to stay and will only grow stronger.

A faulty privacy model can't be a digital cash--you can't have fungibility without privacy, so your dreams of being a digital cash are delusional at best.

[smoothie]

What I think is funny is let Dash pump to the moon...while monero gets cheaper.

I would like to see dash go into the clouds and then deflated to hell. 

[smoothie]

Some people think that the truth can be hidden with a little cover-up and decoration. But as time goes by, what is true is revealed,
and what is fake fades away.
- Ismail Haniyeh

Truth is that Dash is here to stay and will only grow stronger.

Where have I heard that before?

Oh right 3.5 years ago Coinhunter/RealSolid and his crew had the same things to say about their SOILEDCOIN.

Do you have a crystal ball that allows you to know what the future holds? No. Just more hype.

[nzminer]

DASH is digital TRASH which in the end will ultimately CRASH

[iCEBREAKER]

You know the drill!



And if that's not bad enough (for DASH), total bids have plummeted to under 50 BTC.

Otoh was smart to dump early, dump often, and GTFO.

A couple dozen Madoffnodes being liquidated are all it would take to make DASH literally worthless.

No new money is coming into the DASH Ponzi, but the Dear Leader is printing+dumping them like crazy to pay for his "travel expenses" and "marketing."

[generalizethis]

wow, five in a row!

He must have Evan on ignore too; he missed the dash memo.

[iCEBREAKER]

wow, five in a row!

He must have Evan on ignore too; he missed the dash memo.

I like how he would rather tell everyone who he is ignoring than discuss the collapse of DASH's total bids to ~50 BTC.

[iCEBREAKER]

Monero people need to troll harder Dash to succeed, lame attempts like this lousy thread aren't working.

  

Speaking of people who need to troll harder because their lousy threads are lame...

How is your lousy "   Leave Darkcoin ALONE!  " troll thread doing? 

Did thermos make Butters delete every mean post about Dark-coin?  Is scam-shaming now against the rules?  Will the Dark-coin thread be declared a Safe Space?

Oh I see, it's done nothing but make the mods yawn, while providing an opportunity for you to show everyone Dark-coin is terrified of legitimate criticism.

[iCEBREAKER]

Gloarious!   

[skeet]

Gloarious!   

Luckily, I sold my stash of DASH a week ago then bought some Monero and ETH. 

[smoothie]

It was a planned instamine. And it wasn't mentioned before launch, so in my books, that's a scam. Please don't ignore the facts:
2013-12-29: http://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg03557.html
2 guys from Hawk Financial Group, Evan & Kyle, are asking on the Bitcoin Dev mailing list for "1 or 2 really good C++ programmer that is familiar with the bitcoin internals to help with a for-profit startup". They are planning to build a unique coin that is "not just a clone of the original Bitcoin code" but in stead "a merge-mined altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". They claim to have "detailed plans on how to implement it".


2014-01-18: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4596809#msg4596809
There were some issues at launch, so Evan said he would postpone the launch and would "definitely not" launch it in the next hours. But he did launch it a few hours later.


2014-01-19: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/block.dws?000007d91d1254d60e2dd1ae580383070a4ddffa4c64c2eeb4a2f9ecc0414343.htm
Xcoin was launched. This was the emission in the first 72 hours of the coins existence: https://i.gyazo.com/fef5818649a839bb091c29e8b3722b7e.png This was the emission of the first 100 days: https://i.gyazo.com/3acc6ea5d90db13e51d95dac0e4b8fa2.png
At the moment, there are about 6 million DASH in circulation. There would be 84 million Xcoins eventually. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4588082#msg4588082) Note that in the first hour, 500k Xcoins were mined. Due to the "quick fix" of the bug, not many people expected to launch a few hours after Evan said he would "definitely not" launch in the next hours.


2014-01-19: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4594074#msg4594074
Right after the launch, there were problems with the window binaries. Evan clearly was mining right from the start, as he offered 5000 Xcoin as a bounty for compiling the binaries.


2014-01-20: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4629218#msg4629218
After the emission of almost 2 million coins, Evan said that "now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones!". Up until this point, only the "X11 hashing algoritm" was a known feature. According to him, it was "time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do".


**2014-01-22//: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4654183#msg4654183
Evan releases his plans for XCoin. At this point, more than 2 million coins were mined.
Xcoin rebranded to Darkcoin and eventually to DASH later on.
Later on, some contradictions surfaced:
The emission schedule changed multiple times. The latest we heard is that the number of coins would be somewhere between 14 million and like 16 million DASH. (https://youtu.be/wIvcQIdSbIY?t=9m)
Evan said that this project was just a hobby he started while working on a full time job and coded Xcoin in a weekend. (https://youtu.be/wIvcQIdSbIY?t=9m17s)
Evan claims there were hundreds of miners if not thousands when Xcoin launched. (https://youtu.be/x5sNx7SMTP8?t=3m39s) Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1220064.msg12781520#msg12781520)


Conclusions:
Evan isn't acting alone, he had/has a team behind him right from the start. It wasn't a hobby. he had a plan to make a profit.
Evan had plans for his coin right from the start, but didn't release them until after the instamine
1.5 million coins were mined in the first 8 hours. Most of these coin ended up in his (and his friends) hands. It's very likely the 500k in the first hour were only mined by him with cloudhosting services.
He lowered the emission later on, to make his relative share of coins bigger.
How can this be all an accident (like Evan is always saying) and NOT be intentional?
Evan was looking for c++ devs for a "for profit startup" at the end of 2013 for the launch of an altcoin. How can you make a profit by launching an altcoin (and be sure to be able to pay your devs)? Answer: by premining and/or instamining. How he did it is pretty easy: * telling people the release would definitely not be in the next couple of hours and after that do launch it a few hours later * buggy windows binaries * a "code error" creating 500k coins in the first hour, >1.5 million in the first 8 hours.
=> DASH was clearly a planned premine/instamine.

[DrkLvr_]

Just watched the videos of Evan answering questions about the instamine at Bitcoin Wednesday... his body language is looking quite uncomfortable. How unfortunate for him that there will only be more and more scrutiny into his fraudulent instamine. Should have thought about that before scamming  

Props to the guy who showed up and asked the tough questions.. well done

[smoothie]

Just watched the videos of Evan answering questions about the instamine at Bitcoin Wednesday... his body language is looking quite uncomfortable. How unfortunate for him that there will only be more and more scrutiny into his fraudulent instamine. Should have thought about that before scamming  

Props to the guy who showed up and asked the tough questions.. well done

I came to the same conclusion he seemed very uncomfortable answering those questions.

[illodin]

After a very careful and thorough inspection of the said video footage a conclusion was made that he looked more like he was amused for finally seeing a real forum troll in real life.

[smoothie]

After a very careful and thorough inspection of the said video footage a conclusion was made that he looked more like he was amused for finally seeing a real forum troll in real life.

Based on your stance and how you carry yourself on this forum I can't take anything you say seriously.

Dash is no different than Solidcoin with CoinHunter/RealSolid as its developer.

Dash is essentially Solidcoin 2.0 and a much more successful Solidcoin version.

[obit33]

Hah,

this is funny, Evan admitting masternode-system sucks and is not anonymous while all his minions are defending it here on the forum...

And he is sure distribution of the coin is fine, because he asked... LOL

Here's the link for the Q&A btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5sNx7SMTP8
good luck to the Dash-holders, you're gonna need it... Evan's answers on the question about overtaking more than half of the masternodes is exremely weak I think... He argues it's difficult to attack it like that because one would drive up the price too much, thus admitting an attack is possible, albeit difficult... but possible nonetheless... This would be a major concern to me as an investor...

best regards,

[illodin]

He argues it's difficult to attack it like that because one would drive up the price too much, thus admitting an attack is possible, albeit difficult... but possible nonetheless... This would be a major concern to me as an investor...

Attack is always possible against everything if you have infinite resources and motivation. Not admitting that would be delusional and should be concerning to investors.

[generalizethis]

He argues it's difficult to attack it like that because one would drive up the price too much, thus admitting an attack is possible, albeit difficult... but possible nonetheless... This would be a major concern to me as an investor...

Attack is always possible against everything if you have infinite resources and motivation. Not admitting that would be delusional and should be concerning to investors.

But it's made even easier when you cram algos together like X11:

"If any one of the hashes in the chain of 11 hashes has a lower entropy then the entire chain does. Say you found this vulnerability and didn't announce it. Instead you could use it to amplify your hashrate. With that you could take unfair levels of mining rewards, or potentially launch double-spend attacks.

Fixing it after the fact also probably means the inability to unwind the damage already done if it had gone on a long time undetected.
So 11 hashes is 11 times more likely to have a vulnerability than 1 hash." Anonymint

And from noted cryptographers:

"The Sum Can Be Weaker Than Each Part"

Gaëtan Leurent and Lei Wang

"Abstract: In this paper we study the security of summing the outputs of two independent hash functions, in an effort to increase the security of the resulting design, or to hedge against the failure of one of the hash functions. The exclusive-or (XOR) combiner H1(M)+H2(M) is one of the two most classical combiners, together with the concatenation combiner H1(M)||H2(M). While the security of the concatenation of two hash functions is well understood since Joux's seminal work on multicollisions, the security of the sum of two hash functions has been much less studied.

The XOR combiner is well known as a good PRF and MAC combiner, and is used in practice in TLS versions 1.0 and 1.1. In a hash function setting, Hoch and Shamir have shown that if the compression functions are modeled as random oracles, or even weak random oracles (i.e. they can easily be inverted -- in particular H1 and H2 offer no security), H1+H2 is indifferentiable from a random oracle up to the birthday bound.

In this work, we focus on the preimage resistance of the sum of two narrow-pipe n-bit hash functions, following the Merkle-Damgård or HAIFA structure (the internal state size and the output size are both n bits). We show a rather surprising result: the sum of two such hash functions, e.g. SHA-512+Whirlpool, can never provide n-bit security for preimage resistance. More precisely, we present a generic preimage attack with a complexity of O(2^5n/6). While it is already known that the XOR combiner is not preserving for preimage resistance (i.e. there might be some instantiations where the hash functions are secure but the sum is not), our result is much stronger: for any narrow-pipe functions, the sum is not preimage resistant.

Besides, we also provide concrete preimage attacks on the XOR combiner (and the concatenation combiner) when one or both of the compression functions are weak; this complements Hoch and Shamir's proof by showing its tightness for preimage resistance.

Of independent interests, one of our main technical contributions is a novel structure to control simultaneously the behavior of independent hash computations which share the same input message. We hope that breaking the pairwise relationship between their internal states will have applications in related settings."

https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/070

https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/070.pdf

[DrkLvr_]

After a very careful and thorough inspection of the said video footage a conclusion was made that he looked more like he was amused for finally seeing a real forum troll in real life.

Watch it again. He looks like a weasel who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.. trying desperately to brush it off and failing miserably.  I really wonder what would have happened if the session moderator had not stepped in at that point, defusing a very tense and awkward moment for Evan, to reiterate how criticism was a good thing and welcomed.

I can't imagine anyone involved with DASH was pleased coming back from that meeting. In typical fashion they spun it as a huge success here on the forums  

Maybe the Dash bagholders will be interested in sponsering some acting classes for him so he can be more convincing in Miami

[illodin]

After a very careful and thorough inspection of the said video footage a conclusion was made that he looked more like he was amused for finally seeing a real forum troll in real life.

Watch it again. He looks like a weasel who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.. trying desperately to brush it off and failing miserably.

What if I told you he actually knew the troll would be there, and was simply amused about it actually happening?

What I find funny is that the troll was sitting there in the conference listening to the presentation about Evolution where the anonymity is on the protocol level, and then proceeds to ask about NSA and masternodes without realizing his carefully planned FUD just became obsolete 10 minutes ago. Painfully awkward.

I really wonder what would have happened if the session moderator had not stepped in at that point, defusing a very tense and awkward moment for Evan, to reiterate how criticism was a good thing and welcomed.

Actually it looks like the troll walked away by himself without the moderator stepping in, but please spin it the way you want if that helps you sleep at night.

"But maybe you had like hundreds of miners..."

"No, sorry, didn't happen."

Walks away...

[obit33]

If he knew 'the troll' would be there he should have taken more time to prepare his answers... They are weak, with lots of open ends and speculation on his behalf...

• Masternodes: no problem, no one has enough money to do it...
• Instamine: no problem, i asked people and the distributionw as fair, because I say so

Both of the answers are extremely weak, especially if one's trustworthiness is already questionable...

@Illodin: I understand you are invested in this coin, but you've lost your critical thinking on it... Everyone that watches the same Q&A can objectively state that Evan didn't come out well, especially not if he knew 'the troll' would be there and he would have to answer these questions. If that's the only reasoning Evan can come up with, it's a bit pathetic...

Good luck on you though,
best regards

[illodin]

@Illodin: I understand you are invested in this coin

For the record, I may have had some Dash in the past but I accidentally deleted my wallets. All of them. Shit happens.

[obit33]

@Illodin: I understand you are invested in this coin

For the record, I may have had some Dash in the past but I accidentally deleted my wallets. All of them. Shit happens.

Ah, that can happen, I feel for you... But for some comfort, these wallets would have become worthless anyway 

[DaveyJones]

@Illodin: I understand you are invested in this coin

For the record, I may have had some Dash in the past but I accidentally deleted my wallets. All of them. Shit happens.

If there only were cryptocurrencies that have mnemonic seeds to restore deleted wallets...

[generalizethis]

@Illodin: I understand you are invested in this coin

For the record, I may have had some Dash in the past but I accidentally deleted my wallets. All of them. Shit happens.

If there only were cryptocurrencies that have mnemonic seeds to restore deleted wallets...

And ones that had protocol level privacy already...

[DrkLvr_]

@Illodin: I understand you are invested in this coin

For the record, I may have had some Dash in the past but I accidentally deleted my wallets. All of them. Shit happens.

If there only were cryptocurrencies that have mnemonic seeds to restore deleted wallets...

[smoothie]

He argues it's difficult to attack it like that because one would drive up the price too much, thus admitting an attack is possible, albeit difficult... but possible nonetheless... This would be a major concern to me as an investor...

Attack is always possible against everything if you have infinite resources and motivation. Not admitting that would be delusional and should be concerning to investors.

But it's made even easier when you cram algos together like X11:

"If any one of the hashes in the chain of 11 hashes has a lower entropy then the entire chain does. Say you found this vulnerability and didn't announce it. Instead you could use it to amplify your hashrate. With that you could take unfair levels of mining rewards, or potentially launch double-spend attacks.

Fixing it after the fact also probably means the inability to unwind the damage already done if it had gone on a long time undetected.
So 11 hashes is 11 times more likely to have a vulnerability than 1 hash." Anonymint

And from noted cryptographers:

"The Sum Can Be Weaker Than Each Part"

Gaëtan Leurent and Lei Wang

"Abstract: In this paper we study the security of summing the outputs of two independent hash functions, in an effort to increase the security of the resulting design, or to hedge against the failure of one of the hash functions. The exclusive-or (XOR) combiner H1(M)+H2(M) is one of the two most classical combiners, together with the concatenation combiner H1(M)||H2(M). While the security of the concatenation of two hash functions is well understood since Joux's seminal work on multicollisions, the security of the sum of two hash functions has been much less studied.

The XOR combiner is well known as a good PRF and MAC combiner, and is used in practice in TLS versions 1.0 and 1.1. In a hash function setting, Hoch and Shamir have shown that if the compression functions are modeled as random oracles, or even weak random oracles (i.e. they can easily be inverted -- in particular H1 and H2 offer no security), H1+H2 is indifferentiable from a random oracle up to the birthday bound.

In this work, we focus on the preimage resistance of the sum of two narrow-pipe n-bit hash functions, following the Merkle-Damgård or HAIFA structure (the internal state size and the output size are both n bits). We show a rather surprising result: the sum of two such hash functions, e.g. SHA-512+Whirlpool, can never provide n-bit security for preimage resistance. More precisely, we present a generic preimage attack with a complexity of O(2^5n/6). While it is already known that the XOR combiner is not preserving for preimage resistance (i.e. there might be some instantiations where the hash functions are secure but the sum is not), our result is much stronger: for any narrow-pipe functions, the sum is not preimage resistant.

Besides, we also provide concrete preimage attacks on the XOR combiner (and the concatenation combiner) when one or both of the compression functions are weak; this complements Hoch and Shamir's proof by showing its tightness for preimage resistance.

Of independent interests, one of our main technical contributions is a novel structure to control simultaneously the behavior of independent hash computations which share the same input message. We hope that breaking the pairwise relationship between their internal states will have applications in related settings."

https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/070

https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/070.pdf

And it is funny how Evan sold X11 as this new "more secure" method of hashing not knowing that it is 11 times more insecure than just using scrypt etc.

It just goes to show how uninformed/ignorant Evan is on what he is working on when releasing code/software for Dash/Dark/whatever.

[illodin]

He argues it's difficult to attack it like that because one would drive up the price too much, thus admitting an attack is possible, albeit difficult... but possible nonetheless... This would be a major concern to me as an investor...

Looks like also that aspect of the FUD has just been obsoleted:

Basically, something called masternode input age based quorum layering. Quorums are created using the age of the masternodes, 25% of the quorums are more than 1.5 years old, the next 25% is more than 1 year old, the next 25% is more than 6 months old, then the final 25% is any masternode that is newer than that. It guarantees, you can't control a quorum by just buying coins from an exchange to make new masternodes, there will always be masternodes that are really, really old.

[DrkLvr_]

For a guy who deleted his wallets illodin sure spends a lot of time defending a fraud instamine shitcoin 

Are you paid in Dash or Bitcoin for your shill service?

[illodin]

For a guy who deleted his wallets illodin sure spends a lot of time defending a fraud instamine shitcoin 

Are you paid in Dash or Bitcoin for your shill service?

So when your argument gets debunked you begin with the personal attacks? 

[DrkLvr_]

How is it debunked? Because Evan made a post on a forum? 

[LucyLovesCrypto]

He argues it's difficult to attack it like that because one would drive up the price too much, thus admitting an attack is possible, albeit difficult... but possible nonetheless... This would be a major concern to me as an investor...

Looks like also that aspect of the FUD has just been obsoleted:

Basically, something called masternode input age based quorum layering. Quorums are created using the age of the masternodes, 25% of the quorums are more than 1.5 years old, the next 25% is more than 1 year old, the next 25% is more than 6 months old, then the final 25% is any masternode that is newer than that. It guarantees, you can't control a quorum by just buying coins from an exchange to make new masternodes, there will always be masternodes that are really, really old.

Maybe people are worried about the old masternodes being used by nefarious characters. After all Evan Instamine & Co own a large percentage of them and they are as shady as they come. Evan & Co are also publicly identifiable so anyone who can gain influence Evan immediately gains control over a large percentage of all old masternodes.

Who is worried about new buyers misbehaving? New buyers are the victims of this HYIP.

[Minotaur26]

He argues it's difficult to attack it like that because one would drive up the price too much, thus admitting an attack is possible, albeit difficult... but possible nonetheless... This would be a major concern to me as an investor...

Looks like also that aspect of the FUD has just been obsoleted:

Basically, something called masternode input age based quorum layering. Quorums are created using the age of the masternodes, 25% of the quorums are more than 1.5 years old, the next 25% is more than 1 year old, the next 25% is more than 6 months old, then the final 25% is any masternode that is newer than that. It guarantees, you can't control a quorum by just buying coins from an exchange to make new masternodes, there will always be masternodes that are really, really old.

Maybe people are worried about the old masternodes being used by nefarious characters. After all Evan Instamine & Co own a large percentage of them and they are as shady as they come. Evan & Co are also publicly identifiable so anyone who can gain influence Evan immediately gains control over a large percentage of all old masternodes.

Who is worried about new buyers misbehaving? New buyers are the victims of this HYIP.

I dont think you have taken the time to understand how subquorums and the proposed tech in that post works. Quorums will be formed by deterministically selecting a portion of the quorum from different age ranges, that means old masternodes dont have more influence either. No one does. It is a well thought out solution.

Also you should not call people you dont know shady.

[smoothie]

He argues it's difficult to attack it like that because one would drive up the price too much, thus admitting an attack is possible, albeit difficult... but possible nonetheless... This would be a major concern to me as an investor...

Looks like also that aspect of the FUD has just been obsoleted:

Basically, something called masternode input age based quorum layering. Quorums are created using the age of the masternodes, 25% of the quorums are more than 1.5 years old, the next 25% is more than 1 year old, the next 25% is more than 6 months old, then the final 25% is any masternode that is newer than that. It guarantees, you can't control a quorum by just buying coins from an exchange to make new masternodes, there will always be masternodes that are really, really old.

Maybe people are worried about the old masternodes being used by nefarious characters. After all Evan Instamine & Co own a large percentage of them and they are as shady as they come. Evan & Co are also publicly identifiable so anyone who can gain influence Evan immediately gains control over a large percentage of all old masternodes.

Who is worried about new buyers misbehaving? New buyers are the victims of this HYIP.

I dont think you have taken the time to understand how subquorums and the proposed tech in that post works. Quorums will be formed by deterministically selecting a portion of the quorum from different age ranges, that means old masternodes dont have more influence either. No one does. It is a well thought out solution.

Also you should not call people you dont know shady.

Knowing someone is not a prerequisite for determining if they are shady or not.

It takes only the surface level to determine that.

Let's not make up standards that do not exist and use them as an absolute statement
Thanks
 

[DrkLvr_]

Speaking of shady.. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1220204.0

Hopefully that guy didn't listen to Minotaur26 and his terrible advice to buy DASH at 0.012.

How does it feel to be directly responsible for an almost 50% loss Minotaur?

[illodin]

Speaking of shady.. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1220204.0

Hopefully that guy didn't listen to Minotaur26 and his terrible advice to buy DASH at 0.012.

How does it feel to be directly responsible for an almost 50% loss Minotaur?

Do you really want people to go and find all posts from people foaming from the mouth BUYYRGH MOAAANERROOOOARGH while all it's done from the early OTC days is lose value?

Also, looks like back then DASH was $2.76 a piece, and today it's $2.50 so where is the 50% loss? It's not Minotaur's fault Bitcoin decided to rocket up.

[DrkLvr_]

Speaking of shady.. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1220204.0

Hopefully that guy didn't listen to Minotaur26 and his terrible advice to buy DASH at 0.012.

How does it feel to be directly responsible for an almost 50% loss Minotaur?

Do you really want people to go and find all posts from people foaming from the mouth BUYYRGH MOAAANERROOOOARGH while all it's done from the early OTC days is lose value?

Sure, find a post where a Monero Core team member blatantly makes investment advice like Minotaur26 has done.

Even if you do miraculously find one (i doubt it) DASH will still be the only shitcoin whose developer advertises that he's buying on exchanges while simultaneously selling OTC. 

[illodin]

developer advertises that he's buying on exchanges while simultaneously selling OTC. 

1. Prove it.
2. Is trading forbidden if you're a developer?


Also perhaps you missed this one:

Also, looks like back then DASH was $2.76 a piece, and today it's $2.50 so where is the 50% loss? It's not Minotaur's fault Bitcoin decided to rocket up.

[DrkLvr_]

Prove it? It's pretty self explanatory. Read the thread again, slower if you have to, as many times as it takes for you to understand.

Yeah, i did miss it because you edited your post. This might be news to you but this is a Bitcoin forum, not a FIAT forum. He lost close to 50% of his BTC by investing in a shitcoin. Now you're going to blame the BTC rise? Haven't you been marketing DASH as a "direct competitor" to Bitcoin.. so shouldn't it be gaining value against the 'dinosaur' BTC (as you Dashers like to say) ?

Seems Minotaur is very selective when it comes to responding to threads he doesn't like. Good thing he has paid shills speaking for him.

[illodin]

Prove it? It's pretty self explanatory. Read the thread again, slower if you have to, as many times as it takes for you to understand.

If you can't prove it just say it.

Also you forgot to address the second part, is trading forbidden if you're a developer?

He lost close to 50% of his BTC by investing in a shitcoin.

If you sell your stock today with the same price you bought them, you're even. If the stock doubles the next day, it doesn't mean you lost money. You're still even. I know this is hard to understand as people are still complaining DASH being a scam because a lot of coins were mined fast and sold cheaply in the beginning and they for some reason didn't mine or buy, so they feel they lost and thus were scammed when the price went up instead of down like some other coins and they missed the profits.

Good thing has his paid shills speaking for him.

I am a paid shill? Prove it.

[DrkLvr_]

I hope they're paying you well. Meanwhile Minotaur slinks back into the shadows without saying a word.

[generalizethis]

Prove it? It's pretty self explanatory. Read the thread again, slower if you have to, as many times as it takes for you to understand.

If you can't prove it just say it.

Also you forgot to address the second part, is trading forbidden if you're a developer?

He lost close to 50% of his BTC by investing in a shitcoin.

If you sell your stock today with the same price you bought them, you're even. If the stock doubles the next day, it doesn't mean you lost money. You're still even. I know this is hard to understand as people are still complaining DASH being a scam because a lot of coins were mined fast and sold cheaply in the beginning and they for some reason didn't mine or buy, so they feel they lost and thus were scammed when the price went up instead of down like some other coins and they missed the profits.

Good thing has his paid shills speaking for him.

I am a paid shill? Prove it.

For a guy who claims to have lost his wallets and therefore has no current holdings in dash, you are doing a lot of prove it talk.

You lost your wallets? Prove it. Because the tone and amount of post you do defending dash makes it seem like you are still holding a lot of dash.

[smoothie]

Prove it? It's pretty self explanatory. Read the thread again, slower if you have to, as many times as it takes for you to understand.

Yeah, i did miss it because you edited your post. This might be news to you but this is a Bitcoin forum, not a FIAT forum. He lost close to 50% of his BTC by investing in a shitcoin. Now you're going to blame the BTC rise? Haven't you been marketing DASH as a "direct competitor" to Bitcoin.. so shouldn't it be gaining value against the 'dinosaur' BTC (as you Dashers like to say) ?

Seems Minotaur is very selective when it comes to responding to threads he doesn't like. Good thing he has paid shills speaking for him.

it should be noted that Dash began its descent from 0.011BTC/DASH long before bitcoin started its price rise.

Dash supporters spinning things as much as they can at every opportunity.

Please continue it is humorous to me.

[illodin]

I hope they're paying you well. Meanwhile Minotaur slinks back into the shadows without saying a word.

No you don't. What you hope is DASH to go away so your Monero bags could go to m0000n.

[illodin]

I am a paid shill? Prove it.

For a guy who claims to have lost his wallets and therefore has no current holdings in dash, you are doing a lot of prove it talk.

You lost your wallets? Prove it. Because the tone and amount of post you do defending dash makes it seem like you are still holding a lot of dash.

And this coming from a guy who claims to troll DASH only for altruistic reasons himself. I guess the same applies to you:

What you hope is DASH to go away so your Monero bags could go to m0000n.

[generalizethis]

I am a paid shill? Prove it.

For a guy who claims to have lost his wallets and therefore has no current holdings in dash, you are doing a lot of prove it talk.

You lost your wallets? Prove it. Because the tone and amount of post you do defending dash makes it seem like you are still holding a lot of dash.

And this coming from a guy who claims to troll DASH only for altruistic reasons himself. I guess the same applies to you:

What you hope is DASH to go away so your Monero bags could go to m0000n.

I hold monero (as well as aeon) and never claimed my reasons for criticizing dash were wholly altruistic. But if the the criticism fits, you wear it whether it is coming from a saint or a sinner.

Now how about that proof of losing your wallets? Also, how would dash's market cap equal a moon shot--a moonshot is billions beyond where Bitcoin currently is. So we should be criticizing Bitcoin for its lack of fungibility in moneroland (which we do) and digital fiat for its lack of privacy (which everyone does). Criticism are either valid, invalid or opinion and dash's instamine is valid, x11's weakness as an algo is valid, and darksend's second rate privacy is valid as attested by Evan himself (finally).

[btcxyzzz]

People are righteously affraid because Ewan can decide anytime to get out and become ultra-rich. That instamine "glitch" is costing and gonna cost Dash in the future, by now, because of the best fundamentals among other coins, it should've replaced Litecoin, but it's not happening and the big question is if it will. Thing is, and maybe it sounds insane, but if Ewan destroyed most of his stash, that would launch Dash to like 100-200x the price now. Maybe a smart move to do - that would end this "instamine" drama once and forever.

[smoothie]

<lots of fluff and no substance>

<cheerleading>

Where is the Evolution white paper and where is its peer review?

If you have no good answer to that then it just goes to show how uninformed you folks are.

If you are an investor, it is likely that you don't understand the fundamentals from a developers point of view hence why you would overlook what Charles has said.

 

[Minotaur26]

People are righteously affraid because Ewan can decide anytime to get out and become ultra-rich. That instamine "glitch" is costing and gonna cost Dash in the future, by now, because of the best fundamentals among other coins, it should've replaced Litecoin, but it's not happening and the big question is if it will. Thing is, and maybe it sounds insane, but if Ewan destroyed most of his stash, that would launch Dash to like 100-200x the price now. Maybe a smart move to do - that would end this "instamine" drama once and forever.

The problem with your idea is Evan does not have a huge stash to destroy. There were a lot of coins mined by whoever was there mining they did not go to him in particular, just a portion. The largest holders are all investors that bought in exchanges.

[generalizethis]

profound...

Hey - don't overstretch yourself.

There's a long day ahead  

Maybe you can start your day with answering these straight forward questions:

--If the instamine doesn't matter to potential investors, why does your ANN say, "Dash has no premine and was fairly and transparently launched" The difference between an instamine to someone trying to avoid a premine is similar to the difference of someone trying to avoid simple carbs, but thinking that the manufacturer includes high fructose corn syrup when they list the product as sugar-free. It's greasy advertising at best, and a bait and switch at worst.

--Why do you use x11 as an algo when experts (actual crytographers) agree that every algo you add weakens the whole?

--Why should we trust Evan to get privacy at the protocol level correct, when he either botched the launch or lied?

--Why is there no peer review of Evan's plans for evolution? My guess is he wants to keep moving the target before his ineptitude is realized by the seemingly cultish dash community.

 

[onemorexmr]

People are righteously affraid because Ewan can decide anytime to get out and become ultra-rich. That instamine "glitch" is costing and gonna cost Dash in the future, by now, because of the best fundamentals among other coins, it should've replaced Litecoin, but it's not happening and the big question is if it will. Thing is, and maybe it sounds insane, but if Ewan destroyed most of his stash, that would launch Dash to like 100-200x the price now. Maybe a smart move to do - that would end this "instamine" drama once and forever.

The problem with your idea is Evan does not have a huge stash to destroy. There were a lot of coins mined by whoever was there mining they did not go to him in particular, just a portion. The largest holders are all investors that bought in exchanges.

please provide proof!

i dont believe that for a second... i was there in the first minutes of xcoin and saw the chaos.
it was not easy (nearly impossible) to mine it.
i know that he mined it and had thousands of coins shortly after launch.

[illodin]

i know that he mined it and had thousands of coins shortly after launch.

Everyone who mined had thousands of coins shortly after launch.

And everyone who bothered paying 0.1 BTC for them in the first weeks also got thousands of coins.

[generalizethis]

--Why do you use x11 as an algo when experts (actual crytographers) agree that every algo you add weakens the whole?

If a weakness is found in one of the algos it can simply be removed, enter X10.

Wrong. courtesy of anonymint/tptb_need_war:


"If any one of the hashes in the chain of 11 hashes has a lower entropy then the entire chain does. Say you found this vulnerability and didn't announce it. Instead you could use it to amplify your hashrate. With that you could take unfair levels of mining rewards, or potentially launch double-spend attacks.

Fixing it after the fact also probably means the inability to unwind the damage already done if it had gone on a long time undetected.

So 11 hashes is 11 times more likely to have a vulnerability than 1 hash."

[onemorexmr]

i know that he mined it and had thousands of coins shortly after launch.

Everyone who mined had thousands of coins shortly after launch.

And everyone who bothered paying 0.1 BTC for them in the first weeks also got thousands of coins.

i only know that he has thousands. he may have more...
the instamine was very huge.

but i see: you have no proof that evan hasnt much coins ;-)

[smoothie]

i know that he mined it and had thousands of coins shortly after launch.

Everyone who mined had thousands of coins shortly after launch.

And everyone who bothered paying 0.1 BTC for them in the first weeks also got thousands of coins.

i only know that he has thousands. he may have more...
the instamine was very huge.

but i see: you have no proof that evan hasnt much coins ;-)

Dealing in facts has not been their strong point for some time.

Saying things like "Evan doesn't have lots of Dash"

and

"If you want to know about Evolution go read up about it".....with no link to white paper nor peer review....just vaporware and claims based on what evan has SAID, not on what evan has DONE.

[generalizethis]

In self-moderated threads, Deleted posts are usually the most useful ones.

And so are the questions that go ignored.  

profound...

Hey - don't overstretch yourself.

There's a long day ahead  

Maybe you can start your day with answering these straight forward questions:

--If the instamine doesn't matter to potential investors, why does your ANN say, "Dash has no premine and was fairly and transparently launched" The difference between an instamine to someone trying to avoid a premine is similar to the difference of someone trying to avoid simple carbs, but thinking that the manufacturer includes high fructose corn syrup when they list the product as sugar-free. It's greasy advertising at best, and a bait and switch at worst.

--Why do you use x11 as an algo when experts (actual crytographers) agree that every algo you add weakens the whole?

--Why should we trust Evan to get privacy at the protocol level correct, when he either botched the launch or lied?

--Why is there no peer review of Evan's plans for evolution? My guess is he wants to keep moving the target before his ineptitude is realized by the seemingly cultish dash community.

 

[DrkLvr_]

100% pure bullshit.

Still waiting Minotaur. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1220204

How is it that you can sell coins OTC while Evan advertises that he's buying on exchanges? Did you contact designerusa to apologize and reimburse him for the terrible trading advice you gave him? Are you even licensed to give trading advice? 

[DrkLvr_]

i know that he mined it and had thousands of coins shortly after launch.

Everyone who mined had thousands of coins shortly after launch.

And everyone who bothered paying 0.1 BTC for them in the first weeks also got thousands of coins.

i only know that he has thousands. he may have more...
the instamine was very huge.

but i see: you have no proof that evan hasnt much coins ;-)

try hundreds of thousands. remember that 500,000 DASH were mined in the first 1 hour alone. 1.5 million in the first 8 hours. The vast majority of that was "Evan and friends"

[iCEBREAKER]

the questions that go ignored.  

--Why do you use x11 as an algo when experts (actual crytographers) agree that every algo you add weakens the whole?

--Why should we trust Evan to get privacy at the protocol level correct, when he either botched the launch or lied?

--Why is there no peer review of Evan's plans for evolution?
 

Will the whitepaper(s) provide guidance on these important, yet heretofore unanswered, questions?

[smoothie]

People are righteously affraid because Ewan can decide anytime to get out and become ultra-rich. That instamine "glitch" is costing and gonna cost Dash in the future, by now, because of the best fundamentals among other coins, it should've replaced Litecoin, but it's not happening and the big question is if it will. Thing is, and maybe it sounds insane, but if Ewan destroyed most of his stash, that would launch Dash to like 100-200x the price now. Maybe a smart move to do - that would end this "instamine" drama once and forever.

The problem with your idea is Evan does not have a huge stash to destroy. There were a lot of coins mined by whoever was there mining they did not go to him in particular, just a portion. The largest holders are all investors that bought in exchanges.

LOL @ THIS:

[luigi1111]

I am a paid shill? Prove it.

For a guy who claims to have lost his wallets and therefore has no current holdings in dash, you are doing a lot of prove it talk.

You lost your wallets? Prove it. Because the tone and amount of post you do defending dash makes it seem like you are still holding a lot of dash.

And this coming from a guy who claims to troll DASH only for altruistic reasons himself. I guess the same applies to you:

What you hope is DASH to go away so your Monero bags could go to m0000n.

I hold monero (as well as aeon) and never claimed my reasons for criticizing dash were wholly altruistic. But if the the criticism fits, you wear it whether it is coming from a saint or a sinner.

Now how about that proof of losing your wallets? Also, how would dash's market cap equal a moon shot--a moonshot is billions beyond where Bitcoin currently is. So we should be criticizing Bitcoin for its lack of fungibility in moneroland (which we do) and digital fiat for its lack of privacy (which everyone does). Criticism are either valid, invalid or opinion and dash's instamine is valid, x11's weakness as an algo is valid, and darksend's second rate privacy is valid as attested by Evan himself (finally).

It's not possible to prove the loss of something digital. Aside from that, that looks like pretty classic trolling; he didn't really lose his wallet(s), guys.

[gnargnar]

So much trolling going on, as always
But regarding the thread title, the charts speak :
DASH is starting to go up and up, while monero not sure where it's going.
Expecting dash back to 0.008++ by the weekend.

[smoothie]

So much trolling going on, as always
But regarding the thread title, the charts speak :
DASH is starting to go up and up, while monero not sure where it's going.
Expecting dash to 0.008++ by the weekend.

It takes a keen eye to sift through all the shit being thrown by the dash-peeps and people who are calling out their shady actions.

Lots of facts have been presented from one side and the other side likes to just ignore the facts and tough questions and then sling shit at those tho ask the questions.

Childish tactics.

[connexus]

Dash and Monero are down right now. Maybe we should blame Bitcoin for the price slump.

[illodin]

LOL @ THIS:

https://i.imgur.com/uoKRgd6.png

Looks like back then DASH was $2.76 a piece, and today it's down 15% from that. I've seen worse. Actually if he had sold a few weeks after he would've gotten 15% profits! If you hold any asset long enough it's likely at some point it's going to be lower than you bought.

On the other hand, I just checked coinmarketcap, and it looks like Monero has been in descent its whole existence $2.50 => $0.42.

[DrkLvr_]

LOL @ THIS:

https://i.imgur.com/uoKRgd6.png

tireless defending

Where are you getting the $2.50 figure for Monero?

[DrkLvr_]

LOL @ THIS:

https://i.imgur.com/uoKRgd6.png

Looks like back then DASH was $2.76 a piece, and today it's down 15% from that. I've seen worse. Actually if he had sold a few weeks after he would've gotten 15% profits! If you hold any asset long enough it's likely at some point it's going to be lower than you bought.

On the other hand, I just checked coinmarketcap, and it looks like Monero has been in descent its whole existence $2.50 => $0.42.

By the way spinmaster illodin, the scandalous part isn't just that the price is lower than it was before. It's that a DASH core team member Minotaur26 is blatently promoting unlicensed securities (his own shitcoin), and dispensing trading/investment advice. Conflict of interest much?  

I hope Minotaur seeks legal counsel if he hasn't already.

[illodin]

By the way spinmaster illodin, the scandalous part isn't just that the price is lower than it was before. It's that a DASH core team member Minotaur26 is blatently promoting unlicensed securities (his own shitcoin), and dispensing trading/investment advice. Conflict of interest much?  

What a scandal indeed, never seen before behaviour! Did you arrive here yesterday?

Btw you don't want to throw rocks when living in a glass house.

I hope

What you hope is DASH to go away so your Monero bags could go to m0000n.

[DrkLvr_]

It has been seen before.. on countless other pump and dump shitcoins. Thanks for confirming DASH is no better.

Still waiting on where you got that $2.50 figure for Monero. Seems you just make shit up then ignore whatever inconvenient questions arise.

[illodin]

Still waiting on where you got that $2.50 figure for Monero. Seems you just make shit up then ignore whatever inconvenient questions arise.

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/monero/#charts

[DrkLvr_]

Monero was launched before coinmarketcap began to track it (as i'm sure you know, but they don't call you spinmaster illodin for nothing)

I bought Monero at 85k satoshi's, others bought a lot lower than that... once again you make a shit argument in a failed attempt to defend your shit coin.

[illodin]

Monero was launched before coinmarketcap began to track it (as i'm sure you know, but they don't call you spinmaster illodin for nothing)

I bought Monero at 85k satoshi's, others bought a lot lower than that... once again you make a shit argument in a failed attempt to defend your shit coin.

Well I just figured to refer a publicly recorded history of Monero price in the public markets. If you want to make up your own version of the history then by all means do so, but also allow me to seek for the independent publicly verifiable information in turn.

[DrkLvr_]

Oh yes, illodin the fact-seeker. Because a price of $2.50 right from the genesis block is a more plausible scenario to you? 

In any case, this is all besides the point. The price of an asset has little to do with how credible it is. Bitcoin fell from $30 to $2.. must be a giant scam. So what's your point exactly? That the price of Monero somehow excuses unethical actions (and possibly criminal.. depending on Minotaur's jurisdiction) by the DASH Core team?

[illodin]

Oh yes, illodin the fact-seeker. Because a price of $2.50 right from the genesis block is a more plausible scenario to you? 

In any case, this is all besides the point. The price of an asset has little to do with how credible it is. Bitcoin fell from $30 to $2.. must be a giant scam. So what's your point exactly? That the price of Monero somehow excuses unethical actions (and possibly criminal.. depending on Minotaur's jurisdiction) by the DASH Core team?

I think when the publicly available markets open i.e. the market finds the valuation, that is a good starting point.

My point is actually on topic here, which is that Monero is not "UP", but instead it is DOWN ever since the beginning of the recorded history of its public markets.

[DrkLvr_]

Sure, well while we're scraping the bottom of the barrel, the price of Monero is actually UP from zero. But it's nice to see you're focusing on the important points ill "i deleted my wallets but still spend 90% of my time defending a shitcoin on bitcointalk" odin 

[DrkLvr_]

LOL @ THIS:

Minotaur26 whenever he's reminded of the above post:

[iCEBREAKER]

People are righteously affraid because Ewan can decide anytime to get out and become ultra-rich. That instamine "glitch" is costing and gonna cost Dash in the future, by now, because of the best fundamentals among other coins, it should've replaced Litecoin, but it's not happening and the big question is if it will. Thing is, and maybe it sounds insane, but if Ewan destroyed most of his stash, that would launch Dash to like 100-200x the price now. Maybe a smart move to do - that would end this "instamine" drama once and forever.

The problem with your idea is Evan does not have a huge stash to destroy. There were a lot of coins mined by whoever was there mining they did not go to him in particular, just a portion. The largest holders are all investors that bought in exchanges.

LOL @ THIS:

June 2: Dark-coin @ 0.0124 BTC
Today:  Dark-coin @ 0.0071 BTC

Gain/Loss: -57%

[smoothie]

LOL @ THIS:

https://i.imgur.com/uoKRgd6.png

Looks like back then DASH was $2.76 a piece, and today it's down 15% from that. I've seen worse. Actually if he had sold a few weeks after he would've gotten 15% profits! If you hold any asset long enough it's likely at some point it's going to be lower than you bought.

On the other hand, I just checked coinmarketcap, and it looks like Monero has been in descent its whole existence $2.50 => $0.42.

I love how you left out the part where Dash actually went over $20 per dark/xcoin/dash/whatever and has been FALLING EVER SINCE.

  It's no wonder people see you as a "spinner"...you spin things to make them appear one way when they are in fact not the same.

You took Monero's entire price existence (most of it) and used that to compare with Darkcoin/Dash.


Dash is then down probably 90% from its high and monero is not even close to 90% in fiat terms if you want to use that valuation mechanism.

Please spin harder.

[smooth]

A huge portion of the fiat price drops are due to Bitcoin and the whole universe dropping with speculative money either evaporating altogether due to large BTC (and to a lesser extent LTC) holdings being worth less, or just leaving the sector as people go chase after big gains in real estate or tech stocks or whatever else is "hot" now.

I don't really see how either coin does well when compared with early 2014. I'd call it a tie by double default (both having done terribly).

[LucyLovesCrypto]

Another reason why those who know what they are talking about choose Monero over DASH:
https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3s085o/why_the_altcoin_takeover_scenario_has_become_a/cwt2prf

Monero is anonymous and DASH is not.

Many cryptography experts have said good things about Monero. Good luck naming one who has said anything positive about DASH cryptography.

DASH is snake oil sold to the uneducated. Nothing more

[iCEBREAKER]

Another reason why those who know what they are talking about choose Monero over DASH:
https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3s085o/why_the_altcoin_takeover_scenario_has_become_a/cwt2prf

Monero is anonymous and DASH is not.

Many cryptography experts have said good things about Monero. Good luck naming one who has said anything positive about DASH cryptography.

DASH is snake oil sold to the uneducated. Nothing more

Monero is fungible, DASH is not.

[illodin]

LOL @ THIS:

https://i.imgur.com/uoKRgd6.png

Looks like back then DASH was $2.76 a piece, and today it's down 15% from that. I've seen worse. Actually if he had sold a few weeks after he would've gotten 15% profits! If you hold any asset long enough it's likely at some point it's going to be lower than you bought.

On the other hand, I just checked coinmarketcap, and it looks like Monero has been in descent its whole existence $2.50 => $0.42.

I love how you left out the part where Dash actually went over $20 per dark/xcoin/dash/whatever and has been FALLING EVER SINCE.

  It's no wonder people see you as a "spinner"...you spin things to make them appear one way when they are in fact not the same.

You took Monero's entire price existence (most of it) and used that to compare with Darkcoin/Dash.


Dash is then down probably 90% from its high and monero is not even close to 90% in fiat terms if you want to use that valuation mechanism.

Please spin harder.

I simply commented on the timespan for DASH that you referred to in your "LOL @ THIS" post which should've been clear even to you unless you don't even read what you quote (or try to OMG spin things?).

And as with Monero, I didn't even take its ATH but the beginning of documented public market trade history instead, although we can inspect the ATH as well if you like. If you find recommendations of buying/selling Monero then we can compare how those have fared but until then examining the whole public market history seemed the most neutral.

[aleix]

 

[DrkLvr_]

LOL @ THIS:

https://i.imgur.com/uoKRgd6.png

Looks like back then DASH was $2.76 a piece, and today it's down 15% from that. I've seen worse. Actually if he had sold a few weeks after he would've gotten 15% profits! If you hold any asset long enough it's likely at some point it's going to be lower than you bought.

On the other hand, I just checked coinmarketcap, and it looks like Monero has been in descent its whole existence $2.50 => $0.42.

I love how you left out the part where Dash actually went over $20 per dark/xcoin/dash/whatever and has been FALLING EVER SINCE.

  It's no wonder people see you as a "spinner"...you spin things to make them appear one way when they are in fact not the same.

You took Monero's entire price existence (most of it) and used that to compare with Darkcoin/Dash.


Dash is then down probably 90% from its high and monero is not even close to 90% in fiat terms if you want to use that valuation mechanism.

Please spin harder.

I simply commented on the timespan for DASH that you referred to in your "LOL @ THIS" post which should've been clear even to you unless you don't even read what you quote (or try to OMG spin things?).

And as with Monero, I didn't even take its ATH but the beginning of documented public market trade history instead, although we can inspect the ATH as well if you like. If you find recommendations of buying/selling Monero then we can compare how those have fared but until then examining the whole public market history seemed the most neutral.

No you didn't - you took the time period discussed for DASH (June 2015) and for Monero's timespan you used since it was listed on coinmarketcap (May 2014). You must be getting dizzy from all that spinning. Go ahead and compare them from equal timeframes, and also from ATH. (Not that it matters anyway, DASH is a huge scam regardless of either coin's price.)

Aleix, not really sure what you're trying to say with your screenshot. Are you saying DASH is legitimate because it's currently priced higher than other shitcoins? Keep in mind Bernie Madoff siphoned 65 Billion from investors over 25 years before the fraud was exposed and it all came tumbling down. For Evan, the fraud has already been exposed.. just a waiting game now.

[aleix]

Aleix, not really sure what you're trying to say with your screenshot.

Just answering the title of the thread (one of the dumbest threads of Bitcointalk BTW). You should stay on topic IMO.

Dedicated to Icetroller, our most beloved pet troll.

[illodin]

Aleix, not really sure what you're trying to say with your screenshot. Are you saying DASH is legitimate because it's currently priced higher than other shitcoins? Keep in mind Bernie Madoff siphoned 65 Billion from investors over 25 years before the fraud was exposed and it all came tumbling down. For Evan, the fraud has already been exposed.. just a waiting game now.

Are you stupid or just pretending to be one? Thread topic is "DASH Collapsing Monero UP" and his screenshot says "Monero Collapsing EVERYTHING ELSE UP".

That's it. He's not saying anything about any Bernie Madoffs or Evans who are off topic in this thread anyway.

[DrkLvr_]

Aleix, not really sure what you're trying to say with your screenshot. Are you saying DASH is legitimate because it's currently priced higher than other shitcoins? Keep in mind Bernie Madoff siphoned 65 Billion from investors over 25 years before the fraud was exposed and it all came tumbling down. For Evan, the fraud has already been exposed.. just a waiting game now.

Are you stupid or just pretending to be one? Thread topic is "DASH Collapsing Monero UP" and his screenshot says "Monero Collapsing EVERYTHING ELSE UP".



That's it. He's not saying anything about any Bernie Madoffs or Evans who are off topic in this thread anyway.

Spin spin spin spin

Hey stupid idiot, you getting mad? If it's off-topic the thread creator can delete my posts.

Conveniently you "forgot" to respond to this:

No you didn't - you took the time period discussed for DASH (June 2015) and for Monero's timespan you used since it was listed on coinmarketcap (May 2014). You must be getting dizzy from all that spinning. Go ahead and compare them from equal timeframes, and also from ATH. (Not that it matters anyway, DASH is a huge scam regardless of either coin's price.

[illodin]

Hey stupid idiot, you getting mad? If it's off-topic the thread creator can delete my posts.

Conveniently you "forgot" to respond to this:

No you didn't - you took the time period discussed for DASH (June 2015) and for Monero's timespan you used since it was listed on coinmarketcap (May 2014). You must be getting dizzy from all that spinning. Go ahead and compare them from equal timeframes, and also from ATH. (Not that it matters anyway, DASH is a huge scam regardless of either coin's price.

Looks like it's rather you who's steaming and spinning things. You're starting to look like a 5th grader. And why would I respond to nonsensical demands of comparing all kinds of things just because I posted a couple of facts. If you're so interested in them do your own research and publish your findings here. Or go present them to your momma I'm sure she's more interested than the people here.

And so far it seems like the thread creator has only been deleting objective on-topic posts that don't fit the agenda he's driving so I doubt he's gonna delete yours.  

[XERES]

if i may be so 'noobish' but i never really understood what drove moneros price, its not anonymous and i dont think it can be mined so i am curious a to what is unique about it. clearly something is because its been around for a long time

[DaveyJones]

if i may be so 'noobish' but i never really understood what drove moneros price, its not anonymous and i dont think it can be mined so i am curious a to what is unique about it. clearly something is because its been around for a long time

How is it not anon and how it cannot be mined ? o.O

[XERES]

if i may be so 'noobish' but i never really understood what drove moneros price, its not anonymous and i dont think it can be mined so i am curious a to what is unique about it. clearly something is because its been around for a long time

How is it not anon and how it cannot be mined ? o.O

from my limited research i couldnt find any info on those specs, by anonymity i mean the kind that shadow cash or dash offers

[aleix]

if i may be so 'noobish' but i never really understood what drove moneros price, its not anonymous and i dont think it can be mined so i am curious a to what is unique about it. clearly something is because its been around for a long time

How is it not anon and how it cannot be mined ? o.O

from my limited research i couldnt find any info on those specs, by anonymity i mean the kind that shadow cash or dash offers

You can find info about Monero here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0
https://forum.getmonero.org
https://getmonero.org

[DrkLvr_]

Hey stupid idiot, you getting mad? If it's off-topic the thread creator can delete my posts.

Conveniently you "forgot" to respond to this:

No you didn't - you took the time period discussed for DASH (June 2015) and for Monero's timespan you used since it was listed on coinmarketcap (May 2014). You must be getting dizzy from all that spinning. Go ahead and compare them from equal timeframes, and also from ATH. (Not that it matters anyway, DASH is a huge scam regardless of either coin's price.

Looks like it's rather you who's steaming and spinning things. You're starting to look like a 5th grader. And why would I respond to nonsensical demands of comparing all kinds of things just because I posted a couple of facts. If you're so interested in them do your own research and publish your findings here. Or go present them to your momma I'm sure she's more interested than the people here.

And so far it seems like the thread creator has only been deleting objective on-topic posts that don't fit the agenda he's driving so I doubt he's gonna delete yours.  

Once again you're trying to spin it back on me without answering. Do you even realize you're doing it or has it become second nature to you?

I simply commented on the timespan for DASH that you referred to in your "LOL @ THIS" post which should've been clear even to you unless you don't even read what you quote (or try to OMG spin things?).

And as with Monero, I didn't even take its ATH but the beginning of documented public market trade history instead, although we can inspect the ATH as well if you like. If you find recommendations of buying/selling Monero then we can compare how those have fared but until then examining the whole public market history seemed the most neutral.

Like I said in my previous message, you took the time period discussed for DASH (June 2015) and for Monero's timespan you used since it was listed on coinmarketcap (May 2014) in an attempt to spin the argument in your favor.  When you're called out on this you call it "nonsensical demands" and make 'yo momma' jokes.

Keep spinning illospin. Harder. Faster!

[generalizethis]

Keep spinning illospin. Harder. Faster!

Eventually dash (and Evan's team of evasive sycophants) will go down the drain where it belongs; shitty tech is shitty tech is shitty tech.

[aleix]

Can you guys please stay on topic?

Today we have amazing pictures of CoinmarketCap to show. You have like dozens of threads to argue against each other.

I know Icetroller will love that one:



+11.15%
-6,26%

lovely  

[generalizethis]

Can you guys please stay on topic?

Today we have amazing pictures of CoinmarketCap to show. You have like dozens of threads to argue against each other.

I know Icetroller will love that one:



+11.15%
-6,26%

lovely  

And both are priced about the same as they were a week ago, and week before that, and a week before that.... (yawn)

I know it is good to distract from the shitty tech when the coin gains a few cents (aleix's favorite move that he only gets to do once a week or so), but let's not lose sight that for a coin to get to the billions (and billions) past Bitcoin for a moonshot, it will be investigated by the best techs in the world in order to past muster with wall street, so a shitty launch with a shitty algo with shitty fungibility isn't going to fly and Evan's behind closed door upgrades aren't going to pass the smell test for a VC who's dealt with real genius's who can stand the grind of real peer review by professionals who aren't paid to pander to second rate technology. So yeah let's declare victory based on one good day that got you back to your average price--and you wonder why people call you dashtards.

[aleix]

I did not create this thread. In fact (and I said it before) I think this thread is really dumb.

This thread was created by your fellow comrade Icebreaker, who is bumping it (you can check the history of it) every time Monero is doing well.

So yes, I enjoying myself bumping it a little with some nice pictures I can take by myself. Don't worry, no more posts today  

You Monero people have created dozens of threads about DASH (Its really amazing how you Monero people care so much about DASH. And you don't own a single one!). You can continue there.

[DrkLvr_]

I did not create this thread. In fact (and I said it before) I think this thread is really dumb.

This thread was created by your fellow comrade Icebreaker, who is bumping it (you can check the history of it) every time Monero is doing well.

So yes, I enjoying myself bumping it a little with some nice pictures I can take by myself. Don't worry, no more posts today  

You Monero people have created dozens of threads about DASH (Its really amazing how you Monero people care so much about DASH. And you don't own a single one!). You can continue there.

Actually it's not just "you Monero people" that care. Everyone that's interested in cryptocurrencies cares when there's a blatant scam being run in our ecosystem.  DASH is a such a well-known scam at this point it needs 24/7 Dash Defenders like aleix and illodin to post in threads which you think are "really dumb" - thanks for confirming you have an agenda otherwise you wouldn't be posting here.

[aleix]

I think Icebreaker is a troll, but he is brave enough to post with his own account (legendary, no less) and say the shit he wants.

You guys who use sockpuppets and post like frenzy all around, preserving you main accounts to be "honorable" in your commmunities... You are disgusting.

Post with your main account, don't hide behind that lousy name! (otherwise I will not answer you, sorry)

[DrkLvr_]

I think Icebreaker is a troll, but he is brave enough to post with his own account (legendary, no less) and say the shit he wants.

You guys who use sockpuppets and post like frenzy all around, preserving you main accounts to be "honorable" in your commmunities... You are disgusting.

Post with your main account, don't hide behind that lousy name! (otherwise I will not answer you, sorry)

Frankly your opinion means less than zero to me. The content of each post stands on its own merits, regardless of who is posting it.

Don't worry, no more posts today  

So much for that! 

[toknormal]

Frankly your opinion means less than zero to me.

"Negative meaning" ?

Now there's an interesting concept. And here's me thinking you were just recycling the same 3 phrases with every post using a collision-free lexical hash algo for making them appear original. (I might have to read all your posts again to look for the hidden depth now    )

echo chamber

Watch out - if you use the word "scam" any more you might give yourself spooneritus and start writing "spam" instead at which point you'd be in danger of becoming entertaining.

A legendary sketch springs to mind. Someone needs to do a version of that with iCEBREAKER, DrkLvr_ and generalizethis rattling around in their troll-can doing their little anti-dash raindance  

Alas, I digress having amused myself for the evening.

In the meantime, don't worry cos I won't be hanging around too long either - iCEBREAKER will be passing through here on nightwatch shortly and this post will self destruct in 5...4...3...  

[generalizethis]

Frankly your opinion means less than zero to me.

"Negative meaning" ?

Now there's an interesting concept. And here's me thinking you were just recycling the same 3 phrases with every post using a collision-free lexical hash algo for making them appear original. (I might have to read all your posts again to look for the hidden depth now    )

echo chamber

Watch out - if you use the word "scam" any more you might give yourself spooneritus and start writing "spam" instead at which point you'd be in danger of becoming entertaining.

A legendary sketch springs to mind. Someone needs to do a version of that with iCEBREAKER, DrkLvr_ and generalizethis rattling around in their troll-can doing their little anti-dash raindance  

Alas, I digress having amused myself for the evening.

In the meantime, don't worry cos I won't be hanging around too long either since iCEBREAKER will be passing through here on nightwatch shortly and this post will self destruct in 5...4...3...  

Why don't you go back to your echo chamber and preach your inane theory of money you pretentious economist wannabee? 

[toknormal]

Why don't you go back to your echo chamber and preach your inane theory of money

Sorry - I didn't mean to interrupt your raindance, it's just that you seem to be having problems ever generating any rain and it's been over a year now so I thought I might relieve the boredom.

As you say though - I should really stick to my "inane theories of money" and let you guys post the "serious stuff"  

[smoothie]

if i may be so 'noobish' but i never really understood what drove moneros price, its not anonymous and i dont think it can be mined so i am curious a to what is unique about it. clearly something is because its been around for a long time

How is it not anon and how it cannot be mined ? o.O

from my limited research i couldnt find any info on those specs, by anonymity i mean the kind that shadow cash or dash offers

Dev presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEVm1dMn5Ks

Cryptonote whitepaper: https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

General info: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0

Research Papers: https://lab.getmonero.org

[DrkLvr_]

Dash Defender #3. Do you work in shifts or is it more of a free for all?

Don't worry, a year is nothing. Your scam is already on life support and would be dead already without the support of single whale who has so much DASH shitcoin he can't afford to let it fall much past his average buy price. Maybe his 500+ masternodes help with the loss, but he's eroding the already thin buy support. Looks to me like he will take a bath on his gamble on this shitcoin.

It's unbelievable that anyone really thinks a fraud instame shitcoin will be accepted, let alone successful  

[DrkLvr_]

When all else fails you, just respond to selective quotes and make unrelated comments such as attacking a person's vocabulary. Typical Dash Defender in action.

[DrkLvr_]

Dash Defense double team in action!

Toknormal now that you're here, maybe you can finally answer obit33's question on this thread that you disappeared from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1220204

It seems inconvenient questions about the DASH scam are quite an effective Dashtard repellent.


toknormal when he's asked why the DASH team need to buy on exchanges when they're already selling OTC:

[generalizethis]

Dash Defense double team in action!

Toknormal now that you're here, maybe you can finally answer obit33's question on this thread that you disappeared from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1220204

It seems inconvenient questions about the DASH scam are quite an effective Dashtard repellent.


toknormal when he's asked why the DASH team need to buy on exchanges when they're already selling OTC:

Don't forget Evan when someone points out the inherent weakness when you mash 11 algorithms together. Did he miss that class when he was taking "Create your own cryptocurrency 101." If they didn't teach it, he should get his $9.95 back.

[DrkLvr_]

Lol, and yet you couldn't be bothered to respond over a week ago

and you STILL haven't responded. Downplay it a little more.

[smoothie]

Lol, and yet you couldn't be bothered to respond over a week ago

and you STILL haven't responded. Downplay it a little more.

It begs the question "why wont they answer" when asked a question and it falls on deaf ears and/or ignored.

[iCEBREAKER]

Why is Evan buying Dash on the open market while selling Dash Over The Counter??

There is no good explanation for such an action, especially when we take into account the fact Evan was also hyping Dash with faulty TA ("zomg triple bull signal") and pumping ("zomg I'm buying") with this right arm, while his left arm (Dash "marketing") dumped.

[toknormal]

Lol, and yet you couldn't be bothered to respond over a week ago

Hey I'm the investor here, not you - judging by your posts - so it's me that gets to ask the questions thanks.

I appreciate your concern but your straw men are getting mowed down with every month that passes so they're not something I'm going to lose a lot of sleep over  

[DrkLvr_]

Lol, and yet you couldn't be bothered to respond over a week ago

Hey I'm the investor here, not you - judging by your posts - so it's me that gets to ask the questions thanks.

I appreciate your concern but your straw men are getting mowed down with every month that passes so they're not something I'm going to lose a lot of sleep over  

Lol!


For reference, here is the question toknormal is refusing to answer:

Please take a few minutes and read the original post. Hint: It's not about the instamine.

Ah, you branched out ? Congratulations - have a biscuit.

Yeah, there was already a bigass scamtree, now it has a bigass scambranch too, I suspect it might grow scamleaves and even have some scambabies too the way things are going... now please, explain to me cuz I'm obviously to retarded to understand: Why is Evan buying Dash on the open market while selling Dash Over The Counter??

Thanks in advance, oh enlightened wise one!

Could be a great question for Evan and the team in Miami.

[smoothie]

Lol, and yet you couldn't be bothered to respond over a week ago

Hey I'm the investor here, not you - judging by your posts - so it's me that gets to ask the questions thanks.

I appreciate your concern but your straw men are getting mowed down with every month that passes so they're not something I'm going to lose a lot of sleep over  

Lol!


For reference, here is the question toknormal is refusing to answer:

Please take a few minutes and read the original post. Hint: It's not about the instamine.

Ah, you branched out ? Congratulations - have a biscuit.

Yeah, there was already a bigass scamtree, now it has a bigass scambranch too, I suspect it might grow scamleaves and even have some scambabies too the way things are going... now please, explain to me cuz I'm obviously to retarded to understand: Why is Evan buying Dash on the open market while selling Dash Over The Counter??

Thanks in advance, oh enlightened wise one!

Could be a great question for Evan and the team in Miami.

lol being an "investor" is not a really good reason to avoid the question...

but whatever toots his horn I guess. 

[obit33]

Lol, and yet you couldn't be bothered to respond over a week ago

Hey I'm the investor here

euh, no you're not...
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/investing.asp

Especially the 2nd sentence is important...

You're an (immoral) gambler, not an investor... You know you're putting money in a shitcoin, with a shitlaunch, with shittechnology, hoping for some more pumping with some marketing-trickery...
otherwise you would have a straight answer for that simple question, but you don't cuz there isn't...

You know your so called investment is actually a bag of hot air, but you believe that there are still greater fools out there, who will buy that bag at a higher price... which I understand, there are a lot of fools out there who are easily tricked by empty promises and shiny apps but really without real merit to the cryptoworld...


best regards,

[toknormal]

greater fools

Sounds to me like you're the one with the heavy bags - whatever's in them.

A project with a rough launch survived and became successful. Live with it 

[DrkLvr_]

greater fools

Sounds to me like you're the one with the heavy bags - whatever's in them.

A project with a rough launch survived and became successful. Live with it 

Lol and he continues to evade

[obit33]

greater fools

Sounds to me like you're the one with the heavy bags - whatever's in them.

A project with a rough launch survived and became successful. Live with it 

Thanks for your concerns about the weight of my bags, it's much appreciated... I'm very pleased with what's in them, and the weight of the substance is quite stable, unlike some other bags, that still have some imaginary weight, but the substance left long time ago or was never there to begin with...


anywayz, I know you know you're bullshitting, I know you know the coin you're supposedly defending by not answering the right questions is actually not worth defending at all... so good luck at keeping up appearances I guess, but I'm out, it's a waste of time

best regards,

[HeroCat]

Dash is more popular that Monero  Dash users are very active people in altcoin world 

[generalizethis]

Dash is more popular that Monero  Dash users are very active people in altcoin world 

At one time the back street boys were more popular than Nirvana--Monero's enterprise level GUI will be its Smells Like Teen Spirit moment. Remember, people entrenched in the music scene knew who Cobain and company were long before the teenagers of America got their musical tastes upgraded--so enjoy it while you can dashtards, because better, much better, will be here before you know it and everyone will see how easy it is to get quality privacy (and fungibility) without rewarding a few instaminers who are only good at overhyping second rate technology.

[Minotaur26]

Why is Evan buying Dash on the open market while selling Dash Over The Counter??

There is no good explanation for such an action, especially when we take into account the fact Evan was also hyping Dash with faulty TA ("zomg triple bull signal") and pumping ("zomg I'm buying") with this right arm, while his left arm (Dash "marketing") dumped.

To be honest I understand most of your criticisms they are often not true or manipulated but I get them, they normally refer to a current weakness that is being worked on like the reference node. You were right on criticizing the reference node as the dev team also understood it was part of the plan to remove it until they were successful. It is the same with any coin being actively develop. You are right on criticizing I made a bad call on the market as the BTC pump made the BTC ratio go down, it happens, although I would argue in dollar terms we have been pretty stable.

But I really dont understand the OTC criticism, it just makes no sense. Evan is free to buy coins on the market as much as he wants.  We have an OTC program to sponsor activities from the budget system that are specific to the things that get approved like going to a conference or financing the electrum client, Evan has nothing to do with that and he does not handle that.

I dont understand what you are trying to imply, he got around 30BTC worth of Dash from the markets and I got around 5K USD around the same time. So what? Sometimes we just want coins as we are still accumulating.  He also helps sponsor activities separate from that as do many other supporters and team members. I really dont get what you are trying to imply as our OTC program is part of the sponsoring of official activities and the coins that are sold are only those approved from the budget system for a specific purpose so sometimes there are just no coins available to sell. Evan can personally buy as many coins as he wants, one thing has nothing to do with the other.

[iCEBREAKER]

Why is Evan buying Dash on the open market while selling Dash Over The Counter??

There is no good explanation for such an action, especially when we take into account the fact Evan was also hyping Dash with faulty TA ("zomg triple bull signal") and pumping ("zomg I'm buying") with this right arm, while his left arm (Dash "marketing") dumped.

To be honest I understand most of your criticisms they are often not true or manipulated but I get them, they normally refer to a current weakness that is being worked on like the reference node. You were right on criticizing the reference node as the dev team also understood it was part of the plan to remove it until they were successful. It is the same with any coin being actively develop. You are right on criticizing I made a bad call on the market as the BTC pump made the BTC ratio go down, it happens, although I would argue in dollar terms we have been pretty stable.

But I really dont understand the OTC criticism, it just makes no sense. Evan is free to buy coins on the market as much as he wants.  We have an OTC program to sponsor activities from the budget system that are specific to the things that get approved like going to a conference or financing the electrum client, Evan has nothing to do with that and he does not handle that.

I dont understand what you are trying to imply, he got around 30BTC worth of Dash from the markets and I got around 5K USD around the same time. So what? Sometimes we just want coins as we are still accumulating.  He also helps sponsor activities separate from that as do many other supporters and team members. I really dont get what you are trying to imply as our OTC program is part of the sponsoring of official activities and the coins that are sold are only those approved from the budget system for a specific purpose so sometimes there are just no coins available to sell. Evan can personally buy as many coins as he wants, one thing has nothing to do with the other.

The problem isn't Evan personally buying "as many coins as he wants."

The problem is Evan using his Official Dash Account to publicly announce that intention, along with his unsolicited financial advice, to hype and pump the public markets while simultaneously dumping in private OTC sales.

It looks shady as all hell.  But if you can't see what coblee and everyone else outside the DashHole cult sees as wrong/shady as hell about the instamine, it's no wonder you don't see a problem with market/bagholder manipulation either.

[DrkLvr_]

Why is Evan buying Dash on the open market while selling Dash Over The Counter??

There is no good explanation for such an action, especially when we take into account the fact Evan was also hyping Dash with faulty TA ("zomg triple bull signal") and pumping ("zomg I'm buying") with this right arm, while his left arm (Dash "marketing") dumped.

To be honest I understand most of your criticisms they are often not true or manipulated but I get them, they normally refer to a current weakness that is being worked on like the reference node. You were right on criticizing the reference node as the dev team also understood it was part of the plan to remove it until they were successful. It is the same with any coin being actively develop. You are right on criticizing I made a bad call on the market as the BTC pump made the BTC ratio go down, it happens, although I would argue in dollar terms we have been pretty stable.

But I really dont understand the OTC criticism, it just makes no sense. Evan is free to buy coins on the market as much as he wants.  We have an OTC program to sponsor activities from the budget system that are specific to the things that get approved like going to a conference or financing the electrum client, Evan has nothing to do with that and he does not handle that.

I dont understand what you are trying to imply, he got around 30BTC worth of Dash from the markets and I got around 5K USD around the same time. So what? Sometimes we just want coins as we are still accumulating.  He also helps sponsor activities separate from that as do many other supporters and team members. I really dont get what you are trying to imply as our OTC program is part of the sponsoring of official activities and the coins that are sold are only those approved from the budget system for a specific purpose so sometimes there are just no coins available to sell. Evan can personally buy as many coins as he wants, one thing has nothing to do with the other.

Minotaur doesn't understand  

He doesn't understand that it's more evidence of fraud from the DASH team (as if more was even needed). Nice try attempting to brush it off.. it took you almost 1 month to say you don't understand what the big deal is? Did you finally consult your attorneys and they advised you playing dumb was your best course of action?

Don't worry, some people understand exactly what Darkcoin is all about. Deliberate instamine fraud, continuous lies,  deception and changes to benefit the fraudulent instaminers/developers, and a core team that hype their shitcoin while selling OTC.

[DrkLvr_]

eduffield and Minotaur have been doing a great job of spending bagholder funds.. it will make no difference in the end since Darkcoin is just a dead-end scam coin with no real users

Poor illospin  

[illodin]

Poor illospin  

What is funny about this is that I probably would have way more MONERO than you if I hadn't accidentally deleted all my wallets.

[DrkLvr_]

eduffield and Minotaur have been doing a great job of spending bagholder funds.. it will make no difference in the end since Darkcoin is just a dead-end scam coin with no real users

Poor illospin  

What is funny about this is that I probably would have way more MONERO than you if I hadn't accidentally deleted all my wallets.

Maybe so, and that matters because......
  
Do you always go around bragging about how much more money you have than someone else? It might help if you were more concerned about keeping proper backups than comparing yourself with others. Just a thought.

Poor illospin, he's so insecure  

[illodin]

Poor illospin  

What is funny about this is that I probably would have way more MONERO than you if I hadn't accidentally deleted all my wallets.

Maybe so, and that matters because......
  
Do you always go around bragging about how much more money you have than someone else? It might help if you were more concerned about keeping proper backups than comparing yourself with others. Just a thought.

Poor illospin, he sounds so insecure  

I thought it mattered a lot to you given it's you who started with the "poor" thing in the first place, no?

[DrkLvr_]

Not really, i used it more as an expression. For example: "illospin is morally poor for supporting scam coins"

[generalizethis]

Poor illospin  

What is funny about this is that I probably would have way more MONERO than you if I hadn't accidentally deleted all my wallets.

Maybe so, and that matters because......
  
Do you always go around bragging about how much more money you have than someone else? It might help if you were more concerned about keeping proper backups than comparing yourself with others. Just a thought.

Poor illospin, he sounds so insecure  

I thought it mattered a lot to you given it's you who started with the "poor" thing in the first place, no?

He means poor in the sympathy context not the wealth context. It's pretty standard use and the misreading makes me wonder if you'll think "pretty standard" means "beautiful common" or "above average looking average."

[illodin]

Poor illospin  

What is funny about this is that I probably would have way more MONERO than you if I hadn't accidentally deleted all my wallets.

Maybe so, and that matters because......
  
Do you always go around bragging about how much more money you have than someone else? It might help if you were more concerned about keeping proper backups than comparing yourself with others. Just a thought.

Poor illospin, he sounds so insecure  

I thought it mattered a lot to you given it's you who started with the "poor" thing in the first place, no?

He means poor in the sympathy context not the wealth context. It's pretty standard use and the misreading makes me wonder if you'll think "pretty standard" means "beautiful common" or "above average looking average."

I thought strawmen and misunderstanding on purpose were highly valued conduct in Monero threads.

Unless it's you eating dem apples I suppose.

[generalizethis]

Poor illospin  

What is funny about this is that I probably would have way more MONERO than you if I hadn't accidentally deleted all my wallets.

Maybe so, and that matters because......
  
Do you always go around bragging about how much more money you have than someone else? It might help if you were more concerned about keeping proper backups than comparing yourself with others. Just a thought.

Poor illospin, he sounds so insecure  

I thought it mattered a lot to you given it's you who started with the "poor" thing in the first place, no?

He means poor in the sympathy context not the wealth context. It's pretty standard use and the misreading makes me wonder if you'll think "pretty standard" means "beautiful common" or "above average looking average."

I thought strawmen and misunderstanding on purpose were highly valued conduct in Monero threads.

Unless it's you eating dem apples I suppose.

When technical arguments are brought up, dashtards tend to scatter. You're the only one, except for Evan, who has bothered defending X11, but still when it's explained that you failed to grasp that a rollback and elimination of a algorithm won't always work--you get crickets....

Shame that your whole investment centers around an algorithm that has a pretty glaring hole in its design--but that doesn't matter to you, because you lost all your wallets and you're defending this poorly designed coin out of the goodness of your heart, right? 

[illodin]

Poor illospin  

What is funny about this is that I probably would have way more MONERO than you if I hadn't accidentally deleted all my wallets.

Maybe so, and that matters because......
  
Do you always go around bragging about how much more money you have than someone else? It might help if you were more concerned about keeping proper backups than comparing yourself with others. Just a thought.

Poor illospin, he sounds so insecure  

I thought it mattered a lot to you given it's you who started with the "poor" thing in the first place, no?

He means poor in the sympathy context not the wealth context. It's pretty standard use and the misreading makes me wonder if you'll think "pretty standard" means "beautiful common" or "above average looking average."

I thought strawmen and misunderstanding on purpose were highly valued conduct in Monero threads.

Unless it's you eating dem apples I suppose.

When technical arguments are brought up, dashtards tend to scatter. You're the only one, except for Evan, who has bothered defending X11, but still when it's explained that you failed to grasp that a rollback and elimination of a algorithm won't always work--you get crickets....

Shame that your whole investment centers around an algorithm that has a pretty glaring hole in its design--but that doesn't matter to you, because you lost all your wallets and you're defending this poorly designed coin out of the goodness of your heart, right? 

I think I've said X11 or any of its algorithms can be changed at any time, it's not like Monero that has this "social contract" anchor tied around its neck preventing it making any sort of meaningful changes all the way until the bitter end.

X11 has had its use which was to make creating GPU and ASIC miners harder and slower process. It was a good decision at the time compared to some other algorithm which already had optimized miners for the devs but were launched with deliberately crippled miners for the public.

[DrkLvr_]

He means poor in the sympathy context not the wealth context. It's pretty standard use and the misreading makes me wonder if you'll think "pretty standard" means "beautiful common" or "above average looking average."

illospin is well aware, he just has to keep spinning. Spin it illodin.. harder better faster stronger!

[DrkLvr_]

Why is Evan buying Dash on the open market while selling Dash Over The Counter??

There is no good explanation for such an action, especially when we take into account the fact Evan was also hyping Dash with faulty TA ("zomg triple bull signal") and pumping ("zomg I'm buying") with this right arm, while his left arm (Dash "marketing") dumped.

To be honest I understand most of your criticisms they are often not true or manipulated but I get them, they normally refer to a current weakness that is being worked on like the reference node. You were right on criticizing the reference node as the dev team also understood it was part of the plan to remove it until they were successful. It is the same with any coin being actively develop. You are right on criticizing I made a bad call on the market as the BTC pump made the BTC ratio go down, it happens, although I would argue in dollar terms we have been pretty stable.

But I really dont understand the OTC criticism, it just makes no sense. Evan is free to buy coins on the market as much as he wants.  We have an OTC program to sponsor activities from the budget system that are specific to the things that get approved like going to a conference or financing the electrum client, Evan has nothing to do with that and he does not handle that.

I dont understand what you are trying to imply, he got around 30BTC worth of Dash from the markets and I got around 5K USD around the same time. So what? Sometimes we just want coins as we are still accumulating.  He also helps sponsor activities separate from that as do many other supporters and team members. I really dont get what you are trying to imply as our OTC program is part of the sponsoring of official activities and the coins that are sold are only those approved from the budget system for a specific purpose so sometimes there are just no coins available to sell. Evan can personally buy as many coins as he wants, one thing has nothing to do with the other.

Minotaur doesn't understand  

He doesn't understand that it's more evidence of fraud from the DASH team (as if more was even needed). Nice try attempting to brush it off.. it took you almost 1 month to say you don't understand what the big deal is? Did you finally consult your attorneys and they advised you playing dumb was your best course of action?

Don't worry, some people understand exactly what Darkcoin is all about. Deliberate instamine fraud, continuous lies,  deception and changes to benefit the fraudulent instaminers/developers, and a core team that hype their shitcoin while selling OTC.

Please Minotaur26, let us know if there's anything we can do to help you understand 

[generalizethis]

When technical arguments are brought up, dashtards tend to scatter. You're the only one, except for Evan, who has bothered defending X11, but still when it's explained that you failed to grasp that a rollback and elimination of a algorithm won't always work--you get crickets....

Shame that your whole investment centers around an algorithm that has a pretty glaring hole in its design--but that doesn't matter to you, because you lost all your wallets and you're defending this poorly designed coin out of the goodness of your heart, right? 

I think I've said X11 or any of its algorithms can be changed at any time, it's not like Monero that has this "social contract" anchor tied around its neck preventing it making any sort of meaningful changes all the way until the bitter end.

X11 has had its use which was to make creating GPU and ASIC miners harder and slower process. It was a good decision at the time compared to some other algorithm which already had optimized miners for the devs but were launched with deliberately crippled miners for the public.

And as Anonymint/tptb_need_war pointed out, it could already be broken and rolling it back or changing it won't undo the damage done:

If any one of the hashes in the chain of 11 hashes has a lower entropy then the entire chain does. Say you found this vulnerability and didn't announce it. Instead you could use it to amplify your hashrate. With that you could take unfair levels of mining rewards, or potentially launch double-spend attacks.

Fixing it after the fact also probably means the inability to unwind the damage already done if it had gone on a long time undetected.

So 11 hashes is 11 times more likely to have a vulnerability than 1 hash.

So would Evan just relaunch as another coin? Or maybe he plans to abuse this weakness and give himself another big payday? Maybe he could even award you back the coins you lost. How many was that? On how many wallets? And you just lost them all at once? Seems like Evan isn't the only one with a diminished capacity to think ahead.

[razen489]

Don't see how DASH https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/dash is collapsing compare to Monero

[illodin]

And as Anonymint/tptb_need_war pointed out, it could already be broken and rolling it back or changing it won't undo the damage done:

Yes, any coin's hashing algorithm could be currently "broken".

If any one of the hashes in the chain of 11 hashes has a lower entropy then the entire chain does. Say you found this vulnerability and didn't announce it. Instead you could use it to amplify your hashrate. With that you could take unfair levels of mining rewards, or potentially launch double-spend attacks.

Fixing it after the fact also probably means the inability to unwind the damage already done if it had gone on a long time undetected.

So 11 hashes is 11 times more likely to have a vulnerability than 1 hash.

I openly admit to being too stupid to understand what it means that something is 11 times more likely than something else. Could you perhaps please explain?

[generalizethis]

And as Anonymint/tptb_need_war pointed out, it could already be broken and rolling it back or changing it won't undo the damage done:

Yes, any coin's hashing algorithm could be currently "broken".

If any one of the hashes in the chain of 11 hashes has a lower entropy then the entire chain does. Say you found this vulnerability and didn't announce it. Instead you could use it to amplify your hashrate. With that you could take unfair levels of mining rewards, or potentially launch double-spend attacks.

Fixing it after the fact also probably means the inability to unwind the damage already done if it had gone on a long time undetected.

So 11 hashes is 11 times more likely to have a vulnerability than 1 hash.

I openly admit to being too stupid to understand what it means that something is 11 times more likely than something else. Could you perhaps please explain?

He says it in pretty clear language. If you find a vulnerability in one hash, you can abuse it, so it only follows that having 11 hashes gives you 11 hashes which can be exploited, therefore 11 times the risk. So your earlier statement that any hashing algorithm in a coin can be broken (some are more secure than others and much more so) is a faulty comparison because the more hashes the more vulnerability exist and rolling them back and deleting one is not a solution if the attack has gone on for too long. If you wan't a more detailed explanation, you can ask tptb_need_war as this explanation is meant for easy consumption for someone like myself.

[illodin]

The less scrutiny an algorithm has been under the more risk for vulnerability existing.

11 times whatever likelihood is still less likely than the 100% certainty of launching with an intentionally crippled miner. Unless you believe 11 times 10% risk is 110% risk for example.

[generalizethis]

The less scrutiny an algorithm has been under the more risk for vulnerability existing.

11 times whatever likelihood is still less likely than the 100% certainty of launching with an intentionally crippled miner. Unless you believe 11 times 10% risk is 110% risk for example.

Why are you trying to distract from the issue? The crippled miner issue was fixed quickly in Monero and with little effects, whereas the instamine 100% happened to the tune of 30% of current emissions and the algorithm issue is current and on going, and far as I know, has no plans of being changed.

[DaveyJones]

The less scrutiny an algorithm has been under the more risk for vulnerability existing.

11 times whatever likelihood is still less likely than the 100% certainty of launching with an intentionally crippled miner. Unless you believe 11 times 10% risk is 110% risk for example.

Why are you trying to distract from the issue? The crippled miner issue was fixed quickly in Monero and with little effects, whereas the instamine 100% happened to the tune of 30% of current emissions and the algorithm issue is current and on going, and far as I know, has no plans of being changed.

illodin is just proving how naive he is ... i mean he was the guy Evan lied too about the launch time ( "can i go to sleep and will there be an ETA for launch" Evan : "yup... oh wait nvm it is launched" ... and he is still not mad lol... and defends it even though he said he lost his wallet....

[ArticMine]

The less scrutiny an algorithm has been under the more risk for vulnerability existing.

11 times whatever likelihood is still less likely than the 100% certainty of launching with an intentionally crippled miner. Unless you believe 11 times 10% risk is 110% risk for example.

Why are you trying to distract from the issue? The crippled miner issue was fixed quickly in Monero and with little effects, whereas the instamine 100% happened to the tune of 30% of current emissions and the algorithm issue is current and on going, and far as I know, has no plans of being changed.

... but what is far more important than the instamine, is that the multiple algorithm issue remains as a vulnerability in Dash.

Edit: The instamine issue in Dash has been beaten to death and distracts from some significant technical and economic weaknesses and regulatory risks in Dash that are far more serious.

[nutildah]

Shouldn't this thread have been titled "Icebreaker is a Hardcore Monero Shill?"

It would have made much more sense.

[ArticMine]

Shouldn't this thread have been titled "Icebreaker is a Hardcore Monero Shill?"

It would have made much more sense.

Maybe if we focused on the technical, economic and regulatory strengths and weaknesses of both coins rather than this endless bashing of personalities we could have a somewhat civilized debate.

[smooth]

X11 has had its use which was to make creating GPU and ASIC miners harder and slower process. It was a good decision at the time compared to some other algorithm which already had optimized miners for the devs but were launched with deliberately crippled miners for the public.

X11 was launched crippled. The hashing library used was and is very unoptimized, and there was zero basis for believing it would be GPU resistant at all. The algorithm was in fact very GPU-friendly (all of the hash functions were already known to be easy to compile on a GPU) and Evan even stated this shortly after launch. Yet there was no optimized CPU miner or GPU miner at launch. Private GPU miners were rumored to be on the network (probably correctly so) within weeks.

[nutildah]

Shouldn't this thread have been titled "Icebreaker is a Hardcore Monero Shill?"

It would have made much more sense.

Maybe if we focused on the technical, economic and regulatory strengths and weaknesses of both coins rather than this endless bashing of personalities we could have a somewhat civilized debate.

Just stating the facts, ma'am.

[ArticMine]

...

Just stating the facts, ma'am.

"Facts" that are irrelevant to the debate.

[generalizethis]

...

Just stating the facts, ma'am.

"Facts" that are irrelevant to the debate.

I know, its the core principle by which the Maneurians spread their feces, ahem, gospel.

If Manuero was based on technical premise alone, it wouldn't even be discussed here.

Its just the same handful of desperate retards that have decided to use their precious hours on planet earth trying to swindle their fellow man 24/7.

So what are the technical weaknesses of Monero, nutilduh?

We've discussed the weaknesses of dash: the algorithm(s), the instamine, darksend, the fallacy of decentralized goverance where a few probably hold an inordinate amount of coins thanks to an instamine and the lowering of emissions shortly thereafter (I may have missed one or two).

[ArticMine]

...

So what are the technical weaknesses of Monero, nutilduh?

We've discussed the weaknesses of dash: the algorithm(s), the instamine, darksend, the fallacy of decentralized goverance where a few probably hold an inordinate amount of coins thanks to an instamine and the lowering of emissions shortly thereafter (I may have missed one or two).

... or economic or regulatory for that matter?

[smoothie]

The less scrutiny an algorithm has been under the more risk for vulnerability existing.

11 times whatever likelihood is still less likely than the 100% certainty of launching with an intentionally crippled miner. Unless you believe 11 times 10% risk is 110% risk for example.

Why are you trying to distract from the issue? The crippled miner issue was fixed quickly in Monero and with little effects, whereas the instamine 100% happened to the tune of 30% of current emissions and the algorithm issue is current and on going, and far as I know, has no plans of being changed.

Typical, ....

Wants to distract from the huge pink elephant in the room of the dash-ers

[iCEBREAKER]

The market reaction to Dash's Evolusham speaks for itself:



The so-called "whitepapers" are actually content-free, buzz-word heavy marketing brochures.

[smoothie]

The market reaction to Dash's Evolusham speaks for itself:



The so-called "whitepapers" are actually content-free, buzz-word heavy marketing brochures.

Gotta make dem sales!

That's what Dash is...a sales pitch.

[iCEBREAKER]

Worst Idea Ever: Darkcoin to Dashcoin re-brand



2nd Worst Idea Ever: Evolusham



DarkDash 

Evolusham 

[iCEBREAKER]

So much having a "very basic working" Evolusham prototype in Miami!

This design is quite expansive and will take 3-5 years to fully development to the specifications of the documentation. We plan to release a very simple prototype version of this software in late 2016 or early 2017 at the latest.

https://archive.is/20151206043222/https://www.dash.org/evolution/

The Evan's Gate cultists are very quiet at the moment, with only a few whimpers of disappointment and despair emanating from their compound:


https://archive.is/20151206043730/https://dashtalk.org/threads/dash-to-speak-and-exhibit-at-the-3rd-latin-american-bitcoin-conference-mexico.6505/page-3%23post-75771

We can add this to the growing list of Madoffield's red flags and broken promises!

[iCEBREAKER]

Thanks to TBTB_need_Anonymint for tearing Evan Maddoffield a new asshole!

IX requires 6 of 10 signatures to create a transaction lock.

Which is exactly what I wrote it must do, and exactly what I wrote when I surmised that your white paper was implying the highly jammable design of 10-of-10.

But as I pointed out in the correct math (which is clear you still haven't grasped), even 6-of-10 can be jammed 62% of the time (and multiply spent the other 38% of the time) given a 50% attack on the masternodes (i.e. the 50% attack on masternodes can attack 100% of the InstantX transactions). Even at 10% attack on masternodes, then every 666th UTXO can be jammed and roughly every 10,000th UTXO can be multiply spent. So if there are 66,600 UXTO, then a 10% attack on the masternodes (i.e. controlling 10% of the masternodes) roughly can jam 100 of the available UXTO and double-spend (actually multiply spend, i.e. unlimited lies can be announced by masternodes) 7 of them.

These sort of flaws are amateurish. You are in over your head. You are a programmer and some sort of finance person and a reasonably good marketer mining the gullible speculators (but not to actual users of currency), but you are not capable enough on the block chain theory.

This entire argument is based on an invalid premise! So your jamming attack doesn't work...

Nope. My entire argument is you apparently still don't know how to do basic probability math.

Will you attempt to copy my design and order Dash's masternode announcements? Then will you try to copy my design and merge all the orphans? If not, you will still have attack flaws in your design. Will you replace the deposit for controlling a masternodes with a nomination by PoW, so as to avoid the flaw of externalities that can finance the purchase of masternodes, e.g. shorting the coin.

Well even if you do manage to copy my design, you still can't fix the fact that attacking masternodes is a one-time cost and not sublinear (ongoing cost) as per attacking a correctly designed PoW coin (which is the point that has been made by myself, monsterer, and smooth). And thus Dash is a proof-of-stake security model, not a proof-of-work. Thus it can be undermined by for example combining shorting with attacking masternodes. And you won't get all the small details correct, because you simply don't have enough smart people helping you, because apparently the smart people don't want to work on your closed source during development (and very well documented allegations: fraud) coin. I would never work on your coin, because you have no usership. It is all marketing to speculators to mine the speculators. What is the point? We are supposed to be creating crypto to change the world and entice millions or billions of users. But that has never been your marketing plan. You've always been mining the speculators instead.

And also I do believe the SEC will be coming after you eventually for very clearly running an unregistered illegal investment security (and you come from the finance world so you know very well that you are skirting the securities law). Hope you've paid off the regulators with the $million you mined from the gullible speculators in crypto. Personally I don't see how it has been worth it. The $million you've perhaps pocketed will never sustain you to be rich for the rest of your life, and you will constantly have hanging over your head the threat of SEC action at any time in the future. That is criminal liability in exchange for $million. Not worth it. You are nearing the end of the road for your run.

When I originally assisted you on some of the errors in your original design which caused you to invent masternodes, I viewed you as a nice guy who was trying to develop something. When all these allegations of fraud and premine crap came out, I was very shamed that I had let you get away with promoting Dash. I always knew that Dash was a barely literate design (come on do you really want me to explain how your new anonymity design will be just as flawed as the current on in Dash!), but I didn't want to interfere because I am not the altcoin police (unlike smooth who sometimes tries to act like a sheriff). But really I have to tell you frankly, that I am ashamed that you have mined the speculators and not proposed any real impact for mass usership. And now you have the audacity to go pumping up this Evolution design as some great innovation and fooling more gullible speculators. I mean if you hadn't of done the fraud thing, I would probably not be hitting you so hard now. Again I don't go around harping on the fraud thing, because I am not the altcoin police. But pleeeaaaseee do not try to argue that you are capable on block chain theory tech. You are not.

I don't want to help you because you are doing evil in terms of the goals we as a community are trying to reach. You are siphoning away money from the community and not putting it towards actual innovation (both marketing and technical) that could really help us deal with the problem of a State gone amok. Help us to reach the ideals of crypto. Instead you are just mining the speculators and they seem to believe you are technically capable. You are capable enough to produce code, and you are capable enough to correct mistakes that are pointed out to you. But you are not capable enough to get the really smart people to work with you on ongoing basis, because you are not going in the correct direction in terms of the purpose of why we are here supporting crypto in the first place, which is to get millions of users to use crypto and to better the world (while also making money from increased adoption, not from mining from each other i.e. extracting money from each other in zero-sum game on this forum).

Maybe if you mea culpa on the premine crap and work towards bettering the world instead fooling (ahem marketing to the) the speculators, then maybe I would feel like helping you. But any way, I am moving forward on trying to move the crypto world forward in the direction it needs to be going. Maybe you should help me! I helped you before and you made a lot of money from me standing aside and not criticizing Dash in the early days. Maybe now it is time for you to pay back to the community.

And most definitely you can't duplicate my marketing plan directly to millions of users.

This is the end of the road for Dash.

It will be evident some weeks from now that Dash has no future.

Edit: I will look at your source code links when I have time. I need to head out the door to do errands. If I discover that any of my points are incorrect, I will mea culpa. Again I don't hate you, but I feel I must be frank about the technology because we really need innovation that help us reach the goals of crypto and not just half-assed tech from guys who design schemes to siphon off the capital of crypto into their pockets. And again I have studied the SEC regulations and all these marketing to speculators is clearly a violation of the Howey test for being an unregistered illegal investment security. It doesn't matter how you've obfuscated it by pretending the masternodes are in control, the Supreme Court has consistently said that the test overlooks any attempts to obfuscate the economic reality of the situation. Then on top of that is the evidence of deception with the premine and the advertised money supply protocol being altered ex post facto, etc.

And afaik you are a USA citizen, so thus you incur the maximum culpability.

Evan Madoffield 

DASH

[smoothie]

...

Just stating the facts, ma'am.

"Facts" that are irrelevant to the debate.

I know, its the core principle by which the Maneurians spread their feces, ahem, gospel.

If Manuero was based on technical premise alone, it wouldn't even be discussed here.

Its just the same handful of desperate retards that have decided to use their precious hours on planet earth trying to swindle their fellow man 24/7.

So what are the technical weaknesses of Monero, nutilduh?

We've discussed the weaknesses of dash: the algorithm(s), the instamine, darksend, the fallacy of decentralized goverance where a few probably hold an inordinate amount of coins thanks to an instamine and the lowering of emissions shortly thereafter (I may have missed one or two).

Over a month and Nutilda hasn't retorted but ran away.  


typical bullshit around here.

[Nxtblg]

And again I have studied the SEC regulations and all these marketing to speculators is clearly a violation of the Howey test for being an unregistered illegal investment security.

Okay, I'm going to step in at this point. For the record, I don't own any DASH and I never have: not even in the days when it was Darkcoin. I've also been an interested but apathetic spectator when it comes to this Hatfield-McCoy feud between the DASHers and the Moneroites. Further for the record, I do own a tiny haunch of AEON. Pecuniary-wise, I'd have to be counted as a very minor 'McCoy', but my AEON holdings are worth less than a tank of gasoline.

A-mint has brought up the Howey test before, and I thank him for it. We need people like him to do so, even if (in this case) I think he's misguided. It's clear that he zeroed in on an issue that gets to the heart of what open-source means.  

First of all, for everyone, here are the four criteria of the Howey Test from this source (which jibes with Wikipedia):

An investment contract under the Howey Test was defined as follows:

1. an investment of money due to
2. an expectation of profits arising from
3. a common enterprise
4. which depends solely on the efforts of a promoter or third party

What this meant for J. Howey, and for all real estate investors in the future, was that anytime you're searching for investors, no matter if the investor goes on the deed or has a mortgage, if the investor is relying on you to make their profits you are considered to be selling a security. The Howey Test set the standard for securities laws in raising money for real estate investments.

Now, the paragraph below the list is a common-sensical way of summing it up for the real-estate-investment community. But for a cryptocurrency, it's misplaced and it's important to know why.

I can certainly see the SEC hauling in a cryptocurrency dev team on Howey-Test grounds by good ol' reasoning-by-analogy. But if they do - unless the cryptocurrency has clearly been designed to be a security and nothing more - I'd fight like hell in any public venue that would have me. And the grounds I'd be fighting on pertain to #4: "which depends solely on the efforts of a promoter or third party."

"which depends solely on the efforts of a promoter or third party." That solely flat-out contradicts the open-source nature of cryptocurrency - not in the sense of the underlying tech, but in the sense of the open-source nature of a cryptocurrency's ecosystem and value growth. In order for a grass-roots cryptocurrency to grow in value, there have to be independent actors building value by layering services on top of the crypto. It could be something as rinky-dinky as someone offering to sell his Etsyeque creations for a cryptocurrency, but even rinkity-dinkity actions like that cohere to the open-source ecosystem vision. Even if they add zero demand for the cryptocurrency, they're priceless in terms of effort. Why? because they're living examples of the open-source nature of ecosystem growth.

The Supreme Court decided the way it did because J. Howey & Co. actively discouraged independent efforts in their promotional materials. Put another way, J. Howey & Co. actively encouraged the buyers of their orange-grove lots to sit on their behinds and leave the profit-gathering to J. Howey et. al. as managers. With respect to the typical cryptocurrency, that part of the test is either inapplicable or the diametrical opposite. Which dev team would not be delighted if a business-savvy independent built a viable business using the dev team's cryptocurrency? This is the equivalent of J. Howey asking the buyers of his land to manage the orange groves independently and share any orange-growing tricks they come up with. Had he done that, I don't see how he could have lost his case.

If the SEC wins a Howey-Test case against a cryptocurrency, it will have succeeded in ramming a spike through the brain of the entire altcoin space. After a decision like that, us altcoineers will be essentially condemned to being the Phineas Gages of fintech: running around in a short-term way playing with our digitized answer to penny stocks. The dream of building a new economy through independent efforts will have been squished to death by that iron spike.

Let me give an example of how different the altcoin ecosystem is from the regular business world. Some time ago, I walked to a Home Depot outlet early in the morning to take photos of the goods they had on their shelves. I came across their Internet affiliate program and got the idea that I could use their shelf-stock as underlying data to build a better Website and/or app: it would have paid for itself by affiliate sales. This endeavour started off well - I hit it off with at least one member of the floor staff - until I bumped into a rule-enforcing kind of gal employee who told me that I was not allowed to take pictures of the stock because I wasn't an employee. I was actually surprised, surprised enough to look at her blankly before explaining that I was collaborating with Home Depot. I was only taking pictures so as to take quickie "notes" on what their stock was, for the purpose of driving more folks to spend money on Home Depot's goods. That chivvying moved her not at all; she replied that she had asked the store manager and he had backed her up. "Company policy." She did say I could write Home Depot's corporate office to ask for special permission. So I did, and I never got back a reply.

This little experience of mine shows how profoundly different the space 'round here is from the regular listed-company world. I've been so long in this space, hearing "corporate policy means you can't do such-and-such" actually baffled me for a moment. "Whut? I'm tryin' ta help ya out here."

Had Home Depot had a cryptocurrencyesque management, the store manager would have clapped me on the back and encouraged me! Even if that idea of mine sunk into the netherworld of unpopular affiliate Sites, whose nether is legion, he still would have given me props for trying.

Okay: I know that very few people do take matters into their own hands with respect to building ecosystems. We're all creatures of habit, even us altcoineers, so naturally we've all fallen into the habit of seeing and treating an altcoin as if it were a penny stock: a vehicle which first you plop your money into and then sit on your duff waiting for a capital gain. I'm like that myself; I really am. I admit it.

But habits can be broken, albeit slowly. Getting over them, hard as it is to do, is much, much easier than it is to break a mandate from a regulatory agency designed to monitor stocks & bonds exerting its authority over something new and profoundly, if subtly, different than the instruments which that agency was designed to oversee.

That's why - even if the SEC landed on a questionable cryptocurrency using the Howey Test as its theory - I'd fight it like hell in the "court of public opinion" unless it were a Paycoin-like scam - one where the dev make a promise that was supposed to be made good from his own funds - or a Ponzi scheme where the dev claimed a backing that wasn't there. Both of these cases are so obviously similar to penny-stock crookery, the SEC can do what it pleases with those jokers as far as I'm concerned. I'd just stand up if they went after a real cryptocurrency, even a questionable one, whose value-growth depends upon independent action even if incentivized. That type of crackdown would crush the independent-action value-growth track of cryptocurrency's unique "open-source ecosystem" growth.

Granted, it's a hard vision for even us folks to pick up and assimilate. It took me a long time for my old speculator's habits to erode to the point where I could "see" the ecosystem vision. But the point is, there's no regulation or mandate that forbids me from not only "seeing" it but also pitching in. If the SEC wins one of those against-the-crypto-vision cases, there will be.

Like many of my posts here, this is prolly half-baked: with respect to semantic content, I'm not a good self-editor. But I hope it's baked enough to get this very important point across: The open-source nature of cryptocurrency ecosystems means that a cryptocurrency is not a listed company. Treating it so in law would fatally cripple its "brain."

In closing, to A-mint, I want to say: "I disagree with what you said, but I'm damn glad you said it!" This overhanging issue needs to be tackled before we-all get snarled up into trouble.

----------

EDIT: X-posted here for the benefit of americanpegasus.     

[ArticMine]

...

Very well put. The primary regulatory risk for a crypro currency in the United States comes from FinCEN when that crypto currecny does not meet the definition of:

c. De-Centralized Virtual Currencies

A final type of convertible virtual currency activity involves a de-centralized convertible virtual currency (1) that has no central repository and no single administrator, and (2) that persons may obtain by their own computing or manufacturing effort.

as per the FinCEN guidance https://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html. It does not come from the SEC.

Strict POW coins where the emission is only generated by mining such as Bitcoin, Dogecoin, Litecoin, Monero etc., likely fall into the de-centralized convertible virtual currency category. Anything with a pre-mine or distribution by a centralized source will likely fall in to the centralized convertible virtual currency category and would require registration as an MSB.

As for Dash the key question in my mind is: Do the Masternode operators have to register as MSBs? This is far from clear since in many ways Dash straddles between the centralized and de-centralized convertible virtual currency categories. The status of Dash here is far from clear and would likely require getting a ruling from FinCEN.

[bigrcanada]

Holy shit ICEBREAKER... Really?  

I get rideing on another currencies coat tails seems like a great marketing idea,  though it hasn't seemed to help thus far.  I would suggest instead marketing your currency by being transparent who the individuals are behind your currency and create a marketing/development budget to get the word out.

The amount of energy you guys spend on focusing on us is certainly flattering, but not productive for your currency.   

Like they say... The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[Rotator]

Why we have here such antagonizam between Dash and Monero?
Can we see some cooperation in future? 

[Gillette]

Eternal war between dash and xmr

[iCEBREAKER]

looks like we are holding at 0.012 and something

Or not...

...and for my next trick, I'll be pumping Dash.

You pumped Dash into the ground.  Good job!

[arbitrage]

I don't need to choose dash or moreno bought coins are good and have very strong communities. .
I have both of them right now and will sell on high..and again.
Just create some kind of alliance and promote together like ANON GROUP.

[HeroCat]

Monero is better than Dash, Dashcoin is not enough developed I think 

[iCEBREAKER]

Holy shit ICEBREAKER... Really?  

[smooth]

Evidence that Evan dumped 50K?

[iCEBREAKER]

Evidence that Evan dumped 50K?

Inferred from the fact of his instamine and timing of his Evolution hype cycle.

[HeroCat]

Well, I also think, that Monero is better than DASH  DASH transaction network can have some problems or may be it is not yet developed 

[nzminer]

After learning that all my mined monero coins are practically unspendable because the pool paid me out in small amounts says alot about monero!

Its total crap if they cant design it to work with small amounts properly, never had this issue with BTC, NXT< NEM etc.


DASH is still an instamined scam though.

[smooth]

After learning that all my mined monero coins are practically unspendable because the pool paid me out in small amounts says alot about monero!

Its total crap if they cant design it to work with small amounts properly, never had this issue with BTC, NXT< NEM etc.

That problem was fixed almost two years ago.

It sucks that your coins got stuck in that manner but that's not an issue with the coin today.

[nzminer]

After learning that all my mined monero coins are practically unspendable because the pool paid me out in small amounts says alot about monero!

Its total crap if they cant design it to work with small amounts properly, never had this issue with BTC, NXT< NEM etc.

That problem was fixed almost two years ago.

It sucks that your coins got stuck in that manner but that's not an issue with the coin today.

Thats good to know its been fixed, i was only told that the pools stopped making micro transactions to miners as a workaround.

[TechorMarketing]

The timing of this DASH dump is peculiar with all the marketing activities currently happening in Miami.

Any feedback from people in attendance? Did the audience buy into the "DASH Evolution" vision or seem to reject it?

[iCEBREAKER]

The timing of this DASH dump is peculiar with all the marketing activities currently happening in Miami.

Any feedback from people in attendance? Did the audience buy into the "DASH Evolution" vision or seem to reject it?

Here's the only feedback that matters:

Looks like the instamine beneficiaries took full advantage of the Evolution pump, just like the rebrand hype-and-crash cycle.

And/or the market is rejecting Evolution because it's just a roadmap.  People were expecting a unique new technology, not a heap of vaporware including lousy 'let's make yet another Sia/Storg/Maidsafe.'

DASH isn't well funded enough to do any of the Evolution projects well enough to beat specialized/well-funded competition in each category, yet alone do all of them.

Evolution is unicorns stacked on unicorns, all the way down.

It's easy for Evan to fool his largely self-deluding cheerleader and cultist bagholders.

Fooling the market for any extended period of time is a different story.

There will reversions to quality technological innovation, such as

https://github.com/ShenNoether/MiniNero/tree/master/brief (Ring Confidential Transactions).

[iCEBREAKER]

DASH

Last Price
0.00972061

24hr Change
-12.43%

24hr High
0.01201897
24Hr Low
0.00972009


DASH CRASH right through 0.01 floor like it wasn't even there.

The market is screaming "we hate this Evolution roadmap of vaporware BS."

DASH must inflate by creating more coins to dump and pay for 1.5 years of EVOLUSHAM development and marketing BS like soda machine.

But the more Evan's MegaBlocks print and dump, the lower the price goes, so the more he must print/dump.

It's a vicious cycle.  Result: hyperinflation, DASH #R3KT.

DASH   

[BitcoinNational]

iCEBREAKER / Smooth / Riepietialian
we get it

come back with something spectacular
[you've got the base code / anon / not-ASIC]

Do something with it.  

You have lost the market capital battle (for now) ... regroup ... rethink ... hell you got some resources and capital ... don't waste it on whining ... just document the facts ... and move on!

[iCEBREAKER]

At some point, even the True Believers of the Evan's Gate cult have to put down the Kool-aid and come out of the compound.

That point was almost two weeks ago!

There are entire, fully funded projects solely working on distributed storage. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on social networking type applications. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on API building.

Given that background, any self respecting investor is going to conclude that Dash has bitten off more than it can chew trying to do all this to a high technical standard with only 1 or 2 core developers. They will wonder where the efficiency gain is in development (i.e. what is it that those projects are doing that Dash doesn't need to do).

Dash 

[CoinEnthusiast]

At some point, even the True Believers of the Evan's Gate cult have to put down the Kool-aid and come out of the compound.

That point was almost two weeks ago!

There are entire, fully funded projects solely working on distributed storage. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on social networking type applications. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on API building.

Given that background, any self respecting investor is going to conclude that Dash has bitten off more than it can chew trying to do all this to a high technical standard with only 1 or 2 core developers. They will wonder where the efficiency gain is in development (i.e. what is it that those projects are doing that Dash doesn't need to do).

Dash 

Sooooo, how many site accept Monero as a currency?(not counting a real physical monero coin) Can you buy it at all with fiat outside using another coin? Some simple questions. Easy to find answers for Dash. Hell even the Dash site looks better. Maybe find another coin to compete with. Lets face it. Dash  has many unique features not seen in other coins, but monero was taken from an experimental coin(that should have never been used as a base) and took how long to even get a decent-ish wallet going? I don't intend by any means to start a troll war but I really do have to question who is drinking the kool-aid...

Edit: Just realized this had been going on for almost a year. Good predictions though.

[generalizethis]

At some point, even the True Believers of the Evan's Gate cult have to put down the Kool-aid and come out of the compound.

That point was almost two weeks ago!

There are entire, fully funded projects solely working on distributed storage. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on social networking type applications. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on API building.

Given that background, any self respecting investor is going to conclude that Dash has bitten off more than it can chew trying to do all this to a high technical standard with only 1 or 2 core developers. They will wonder where the efficiency gain is in development (i.e. what is it that those projects are doing that Dash doesn't need to do).

Dash 

Sooooo, how many site accept Monero as a currency?(not counting a real physical monero coin) Can you buy it at all with fiat outside using another coin? Some simple questions. Easy to find answers for Dash. Hell even the Dash site looks better. Maybe find another coin to compete with. Lets face it. Dash  has many unique features not seen in other coins, but monero was taken from an experimental coin(that should have never been used as a base) and took how long to even get a decent-ish wallet going? I don't intend by any means to start a troll war but I really do have to question who is drinking the kool-aid...

Soooooo, how long does it take to mix using darksend? How many peer reviews has evolution had? Are there any plans to fix (replace) X11?

[CoinEnthusiast]

At some point, even the True Believers of the Evan's Gate cult have to put down the Kool-aid and come out of the compound.

That point was almost two weeks ago!

There are entire, fully funded projects solely working on distributed storage. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on social networking type applications. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on API building.

Given that background, any self respecting investor is going to conclude that Dash has bitten off more than it can chew trying to do all this to a high technical standard with only 1 or 2 core developers. They will wonder where the efficiency gain is in development (i.e. what is it that those projects are doing that Dash doesn't need to do).

Dash 

Sooooo, how many site accept Monero as a currency?(not counting a real physical monero coin) Can you buy it at all with fiat outside using another coin? Some simple questions. Easy to find answers for Dash. Hell even the Dash site looks better. Maybe find another coin to compete with. Lets face it. Dash  has many unique features not seen in other coins, but monero was taken from an experimental coin(that should have never been used as a base) and took how long to even get a decent-ish wallet going? I don't intend by any means to start a troll war but I really do have to question who is drinking the kool-aid...

Soooooo, how long does it take to mix using darksend? How many peer reviews has evolution had? Are there any plans to fix (replace) X11?

Really? You're gonna mention some bugs as an argument against higher adoption rate and more feasibility as a currency? I can go out today and buy products and services with Dash. What can Monero do? Oh right, buy me a physical Monero coin. Awesome, gonna get right on that one. But hey maybe i'll believe the year old hype that Dash is going to die tomorrow and buy Monero with it ok? Thanks for the great advice.

[generalizethis]

At some point, even the True Believers of the Evan's Gate cult have to put down the Kool-aid and come out of the compound.

That point was almost two weeks ago!

There are entire, fully funded projects solely working on distributed storage. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on social networking type applications. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on API building.

Given that background, any self respecting investor is going to conclude that Dash has bitten off more than it can chew trying to do all this to a high technical standard with only 1 or 2 core developers. They will wonder where the efficiency gain is in development (i.e. what is it that those projects are doing that Dash doesn't need to do).

Dash  

Sooooo, how many site accept Monero as a currency?(not counting a real physical monero coin) Can you buy it at all with fiat outside using another coin? Some simple questions. Easy to find answers for Dash. Hell even the Dash site looks better. Maybe find another coin to compete with. Lets face it. Dash  has many unique features not seen in other coins, but monero was taken from an experimental coin(that should have never been used as a base) and took how long to even get a decent-ish wallet going? I don't intend by any means to start a troll war but I really do have to question who is drinking the kool-aid...

Soooooo, how long does it take to mix using darksend? How many peer reviews has evolution had? Are there any plans to fix (replace) X11?

Really? You're gonna mention some bugs as an argument against higher adoption rate and more feasibility as a currency? I can go out today and buy products and services with Dash. What can Monero do? Oh right, buy me a physical Monero coin. Awesome, gonna get right on that one. But hey maybe i'll believe the year old hype that Dash is going to die tomorrow and buy Monero with it ok? Thanks for the great advice.

X11 is more than a bug, but go on in your imaginary world of Dash mass acceptance. Last time I checked, I couldn't buy a happy meal with Dash. No one's there yet, so maybe I'll stick with a coin that doesn't take twenty hours to mix or have an algo with a fatal flaw--IE can't get there.

[CoinEnthusiast]

At some point, even the True Believers of the Evan's Gate cult have to put down the Kool-aid and come out of the compound.

That point was almost two weeks ago!

There are entire, fully funded projects solely working on distributed storage. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on social networking type applications. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on API building.

Given that background, any self respecting investor is going to conclude that Dash has bitten off more than it can chew trying to do all this to a high technical standard with only 1 or 2 core developers. They will wonder where the efficiency gain is in development (i.e. what is it that those projects are doing that Dash doesn't need to do).

Dash  

Sooooo, how many site accept Monero as a currency?(not counting a real physical monero coin) Can you buy it at all with fiat outside using another coin? Some simple questions. Easy to find answers for Dash. Hell even the Dash site looks better. Maybe find another coin to compete with. Lets face it. Dash  has many unique features not seen in other coins, but monero was taken from an experimental coin(that should have never been used as a base) and took how long to even get a decent-ish wallet going? I don't intend by any means to start a troll war but I really do have to question who is drinking the kool-aid...

Soooooo, how long does it take to mix using darksend? How many peer reviews has evolution had? Are there any plans to fix (replace) X11?

Really? You're gonna mention some bugs as an argument against higher adoption rate and more feasibility as a currency? I can go out today and buy products and services with Dash. What can Monero do? Oh right, buy me a physical Monero coin. Awesome, gonna get right on that one. But hey maybe i'll believe the year old hype that Dash is going to die tomorrow and buy Monero with it ok? Thanks for the great advice.

X11 is more than a bug, but go on in your imaginary world of Dash mass acceptance. Last time I checked, I couldn't buy a happy meal with Dash. No one's there yet, so maybe I'll stick with a coin that doesn't take twenty hours to mix or have an algo with a fatal flaw--IE can't get there.

In the time it took for that witty comment Dash has been used in good and services purchases. Monero has moved from one lucky persons hands to a sucker. I don't think I really need to justify this trolling anymore do I? Good game though. According to the monero lovers predictions Dash died a year ago. Sucks to be me.

[generalizethis]

At some point, even the True Believers of the Evan's Gate cult have to put down the Kool-aid and come out of the compound.

That point was almost two weeks ago!

There are entire, fully funded projects solely working on distributed storage. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on social networking type applications. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on API building.

Given that background, any self respecting investor is going to conclude that Dash has bitten off more than it can chew trying to do all this to a high technical standard with only 1 or 2 core developers. They will wonder where the efficiency gain is in development (i.e. what is it that those projects are doing that Dash doesn't need to do).

Dash  

Sooooo, how many site accept Monero as a currency?(not counting a real physical monero coin) Can you buy it at all with fiat outside using another coin? Some simple questions. Easy to find answers for Dash. Hell even the Dash site looks better. Maybe find another coin to compete with. Lets face it. Dash  has many unique features not seen in other coins, but monero was taken from an experimental coin(that should have never been used as a base) and took how long to even get a decent-ish wallet going? I don't intend by any means to start a troll war but I really do have to question who is drinking the kool-aid...

Soooooo, how long does it take to mix using darksend? How many peer reviews has evolution had? Are there any plans to fix (replace) X11?

Really? You're gonna mention some bugs as an argument against higher adoption rate and more feasibility as a currency? I can go out today and buy products and services with Dash. What can Monero do? Oh right, buy me a physical Monero coin. Awesome, gonna get right on that one. But hey maybe i'll believe the year old hype that Dash is going to die tomorrow and buy Monero with it ok? Thanks for the great advice.

X11 is more than a bug, but go on in your imaginary world of Dash mass acceptance. Last time I checked, I couldn't buy a happy meal with Dash. No one's there yet, so maybe I'll stick with a coin that doesn't take twenty hours to mix or have an algo with a fatal flaw--IE can't get there.

In the time it took for that witty comment Dash has been used in good and services purchases. Monero has moved from one lucky persons hands to a sucker. I don't think I really need to justify this trolling anymore do I? Good game though. According to the monero lovers predictions Dash died a year ago. Sucks to be me.

I'm guessing you are scared that the dash price can't stay above the .01 line, but I can buy plenty of things with Monero (like Peter Todd does) thanks to xmr.to and shapeshift and I can do so instantly and privately, unlike you die hard dashers who would rather pre-mix coins with a twenty plus hour mix in time than admit darksend is useless for the average person. I'm glad the Monero developers are making the tech work as advertised before marketing and official GUIs--rather than overpromising and under delivering like dash.

[TechorMarketing]

More proof of the brilliance from the DASH lead developer:

Anyone know where I could get historical price data for our market? I'm looking for an export of "open,close,high,low,price,volume", preferably in CSV

This question is even more ironic when combined with this:

I'm seeing all sorts of stuff happening in the charts all at once, which is a great sign when you see a bunch of bullish formations at once. This is how I used to day trade for my firm back in the day. The general idea here is you go from the shortest time period, then you walk out to the longest. If you see bullish or bearish signals in all of the charts at once, it's quite meaningful. Here's what I'm seeing:

On the really short term chart, there's a triple top:



Moving averages are crossing as we speak, so momentum is changing from negative to positive:


If you step out a bit, It looks like we're going to cross in a couple days, for a much more meaningful MA


If we break above 0.011, I believe this was a false breakdown


When trading, there's also a couple other things to consider:
- The order book on the buy side, which is quite nice.
- Then there's the fundamental side for the trade (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GACaNvBlwc, The budget system and governance system? Plus everything we're about to do)
 
Away, that was fun.... back to coding

technical analysis from a dev who cannot even figure out how to access historical price data.

LOL

REKT!

[CoinEnthusiast]

At some point, even the True Believers of the Evan's Gate cult have to put down the Kool-aid and come out of the compound.

That point was almost two weeks ago!

There are entire, fully funded projects solely working on distributed storage. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on social networking type applications. Then there are entire, fully funded projects working on API building.

Given that background, any self respecting investor is going to conclude that Dash has bitten off more than it can chew trying to do all this to a high technical standard with only 1 or 2 core developers. They will wonder where the efficiency gain is in development (i.e. what is it that those projects are doing that Dash doesn't need to do).

Dash  

Sooooo, how many site accept Monero as a currency?(not counting a real physical monero coin) Can you buy it at all with fiat outside using another coin? Some simple questions. Easy to find answers for Dash. Hell even the Dash site looks better. Maybe find another coin to compete with. Lets face it. Dash  has many unique features not seen in other coins, but monero was taken from an experimental coin(that should have never been used as a base) and took how long to even get a decent-ish wallet going? I don't intend by any means to start a troll war but I really do have to question who is drinking the kool-aid...

Soooooo, how long does it take to mix using darksend? How many peer reviews has evolution had? Are there any plans to fix (replace) X11?

Really? You're gonna mention some bugs as an argument against higher adoption rate and more feasibility as a currency? I can go out today and buy products and services with Dash. What can Monero do? Oh right, buy me a physical Monero coin. Awesome, gonna get right on that one. But hey maybe i'll believe the year old hype that Dash is going to die tomorrow and buy Monero with it ok? Thanks for the great advice.

X11 is more than a bug, but go on in your imaginary world of Dash mass acceptance. Last time I checked, I couldn't buy a happy meal with Dash. No one's there yet, so maybe I'll stick with a coin that doesn't take twenty hours to mix or have an algo with a fatal flaw--IE can't get there.

In the time it took for that witty comment Dash has been used in good and services purchases. Monero has moved from one lucky persons hands to a sucker. I don't think I really need to justify this trolling anymore do I? Good game though. According to the monero lovers predictions Dash died a year ago. Sucks to be me.

I'm guessing you are scared that the dash price can't stay above the .01 line, but I can buy plenty of things with Monero (like Peter Todd does) thanks to xmr.to and shapeshift and I can do so instantly and privately, unlike you die hard dashers who would rather pre-mix coins with a twenty plus hour mix in time than admit darksend is useless for the average person. I'm glad the Monero developers are making the tech work as advertised before marketing and official GUIs--rather than overpromising and under delivering like dash.

You Monero trolls are as bad as the BTC doomsayers. I bought Dash a month ago at 0.085 but oh no it's dying!! Save me! Provide some relevant arguments and perhaps we can have in intellectual conversation if it's not too challenging. By the logic you use with Monero comparing it to Dash. If I use the same thought process Dash and BTC should have both been dead a long time ago. Guess the Euro, USD and the rest of the world currencies are gone too right? I've purchased BTC at 700 and 200. It's still there and still a currency. Currencies can best be judged by their feasibility of a number of factors. The first and foremost is ability to exchange for goods and services. The base of this thing called capitalism. Monero is more like a science experiement gone horribly wrong but noone has been kind enough to put the deranged beast out of it's misery.

Now if you want to have a decent conversation feel free to send me a PM. I'd rather not see my post count going up by getting into a troll war with people over invested interests. It's pointless and makes the whole crypto community look bad as a whole and I'm already ashamed with the part I have had in this already.

[canth]

When he wants privacy, Peter Todd knows how to determine whether to use Monero or snake oil.

Posted yesterday in bitcoincore slack channel.

[iCEBREAKER]

As Dash fails in the struggle to keep its head above water at 0.01 BTC, Monero heads to the moon on record volume.

Of all XMR pairs, Dash is down the most.




This is Gentlemen.

[americanpegasus]

Guys, the most Gentlemen thing of 2016 just happened. 
 
Monero just surpassed Dash on CoinGecko.  We just became the #6 global cryptocurrency! 
 

[electronicash]

seem like XMR is proving itself to be better than any other coins.
I've move some of my coins to monero as well, hope i can gain thru this and hope its value won't depreciates much.

[Palider]

seem like XMR is proving itself to be better than any other coins.
I've move some of my coins to monero as well, hope i can gain thru this and hope its value won't depreciates much.

I am not sure if Monero is better than other coins. They are just complimentary. They each have unique characteristics.

[electronicash]

seem like XMR is proving itself to be better than any other coins.
I've move some of my coins to monero as well, hope i can gain thru this and hope its value won't depreciates much.

I am not sure if Monero is better than other coins. They are just complimentary. They each have unique characteristics.

they said monero is untraceable which and has no issue about blocksize - whatever that means lol. still they are getting much attention these days people talked about them more often.

[dEBRUYNE]

seem like XMR is proving itself to be better than any other coins.
I've move some of my coins to monero as well, hope i can gain thru this and hope its value won't depreciates much.

I am not sure if Monero is better than other coins. They are just complimentary. They each have unique characteristics.

they said monero is untraceable which and has no issue about blocksize - whatever that means lol. still they are getting much attention these days people talked about them more often.

Monero has an adaptive blocksize limit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/45b8qn/my_journey_to_finding_monero_and_some_questions/czwlcdb

There doesn't need to be a debate to which the limit should be raised, because it raises/scales automatically.

[Herp]

The devs running this coin should go to jail for defrauding investors, fooling them into buying into an orchestrated pump.

They've paid some Poloniex day traders few k to fool around with the coin.

From a coin with a shitty daily volume of 20-30k/day USD few weeks ago it grew to 800k volume. Give me a break.

[canth]

The devs running this coin should go to jail for defrauding investors, fooling them into buying into an orchestrated pump.

They've paid some Poloniex day traders few k to fool around with the coin.

From a coin with a shitty daily volume of 20-30k/day USD few weeks ago it grew to 800k volume. Give me a break.

So, prior to today, what have you been doing with this account, Herp? Last post before jumping on the losing side of arguments was on Neo & Bee back in 2014. Maybe you should go back to the rock you lived under for the last 2 years.

Oh and thanks for the insight, asshole. Real helpful here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=529946.msg6026369#msg6026369

42    Economy / Securities / Re: Neo & Bee talk (spam free thread)   on: April 01, 2014, 07:59:45 PM
@uhoh

We've heard from Danny on Monday. Let's give it few more days at least for more updates. Danny is working to come before us with something concrete, like a resolution and a plan to move things forward. He said as much in his Monday statement. Let's give the guy a breather and a few days to work things out.

We can be passive and moan about it, give more ammo to competitor paid shills, fall into their traps or try to be proactive and help out as much as we can. I'm personally not much of a fan of the lazy distant type of investor, who sits on his ass waiting for the paycheck to come. We can all get involved to help Neo grow, each one of us can contribute to the efforts. If not by actually promoting it and helping out in a direct way, we should at least keep our emo fits and tantrums in check.

Be sure that if Danny doesn't come forward with specific statements, he has good reasons for it and many of these are in the best interest of shareholders. I can mention a few in PMs if you want.

[generalizethis]

The devs running this coin should go to jail for defrauding investors, fooling them into buying into an orchestrated pump.

They've paid some Poloniex day traders few k to fool around with the coin.

From a coin with a shitty daily volume of 20-30k/day USD few weeks ago it grew to 800k volume. Give me a break.

Peter Todd's tweet and Shen breaking SDC's anonymity had something to do with that--though those things are verifiable, whereas your claim is only verifiable by your bias--my bias says that some of that volume is dashers leaving a sinking ship.

[Herp]

The devs running this coin should go to jail for defrauding investors, fooling them into buying into an orchestrated pump.

They've paid some Poloniex day traders few k to fool around with the coin.

From a coin with a shitty daily volume of 20-30k/day USD few weeks ago it grew to 800k volume. Give me a break.

BS

Oh please. Dash price hold steady on constant volume. This turd has been pumped out of existence and will come crushing down like a rock.

[iCEBREAKER]

[lulzy conspiracy theories]

From a coin with a shitty daily volume of 20-30k/day USD few weeks ago it grew to 800k volume. Give me a break.

So, prior to today, what have you been doing with this account, Herp? Last post before jumping on the losing side of arguments was on Neo & Bee back in 2014. Maybe you should go back to the rock you lived under for the last 2 years.

Oh and thanks for the insight, asshole. Real helpful here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=529946.msg6026369#msg6026369

42    Economy / Securities / Re: Neo & Bee talk (spam free thread)   on: April 01, 2014, 07:59:45 PM
@uhoh

We've heard from Danny on Monday. Let's give it few more days at least for more updates. Danny is working to come before us with something concrete, like a resolution and a plan to move things forward. He said as much in his Monday statement. Let's give the guy a breather and a few days to work things out.

We can be passive and moan about it, give more ammo to competitor paid shills, fall into their traps or try to be proactive and help out as much as we can. I'm personally not much of a fan of the lazy distant type of investor, who sits on his ass waiting for the paycheck to come. We can all get involved to help Neo grow, each one of us can contribute to the efforts. If not by actually promoting it and helping out in a direct way, we should at least keep our emo fits and tantrums in check.

Be sure that if Danny doesn't come forward with specific statements, he has good reasons for it and many of these are in the best interest of shareholders. I can mention a few in PMs if you want.

Dash collapsing, Monero UP.  Herp #REKT.

[smoothie]

seem like XMR is proving itself to be better than any other coins.
I've move some of my coins to monero as well, hope i can gain thru this and hope its value won't depreciates much.

Not to rain on your parade but this approach I disagree with.

If you are only buying XMR to "profit" then it is the wrong reason to buy them (in my opinion).

[smoothie]

[lulzy conspiracy theories]

From a coin with a shitty daily volume of 20-30k/day USD few weeks ago it grew to 800k volume. Give me a break.

So, prior to today, what have you been doing with this account, Herp? Last post before jumping on the losing side of arguments was on Neo & Bee back in 2014. Maybe you should go back to the rock you lived under for the last 2 years.

Oh and thanks for the insight, asshole. Real helpful here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=529946.msg6026369#msg6026369

42    Economy / Securities / Re: Neo & Bee talk (spam free thread)   on: April 01, 2014, 07:59:45 PM
@uhoh

We've heard from Danny on Monday. Let's give it few more days at least for more updates. Danny is working to come before us with something concrete, like a resolution and a plan to move things forward. He said as much in his Monday statement. Let's give the guy a breather and a few days to work things out.

We can be passive and moan about it, give more ammo to competitor paid shills, fall into their traps or try to be proactive and help out as much as we can. I'm personally not much of a fan of the lazy distant type of investor, who sits on his ass waiting for the paycheck to come. We can all get involved to help Neo grow, each one of us can contribute to the efforts. If not by actually promoting it and helping out in a direct way, we should at least keep our emo fits and tantrums in check.

Be sure that if Danny doesn't come forward with specific statements, he has good reasons for it and many of these are in the best interest of shareholders. I can mention a few in PMs if you want.

Dash collapsing, Monero UP.  Herp #REKT.

Noteworthy is the amount of volume traded as well. Dash is pumped up with a lot less volume (a sign of an instamined piece of sh*t).

[toknormal]

Noteworthy is the amount of volume traded as well. Dash is pumped up with a lot less volume (a sign of an instamined piece of sh*t).

Last Dash Revaluation: December/January

3 Day volume around Dec 28th = 2750 BTC
3 Day volume around Jan 25th = 5250 BTC

Total: ~8 BTC

Last XMR Revaluation: February

3 Day volume around Feb 14 = 4368
3 Day volume around Feb 11 = 3160

Total: ~7.5k BTC

Dash is based on a monetary model which implements anonymity in plain sight, consistent with the centuries old publicly identifiable concept of cash. It does not implement a flawed credit model of money which relies upon obfuscation technology that may or may not allow your entire blockchain to be sprung open with a can opener at any time depending on whether it happens to have a dev that knows their a*ss from their elbow.

[canth]

<snip>

Dash is based on a monetary model which implements anonymity in plain sight, consistent with the centuries old publicly identifiable concept of cash. It does not implement a flawed credit model of money which relies upon obfuscation technology that may or may not allow your entire blockchain to be sprung open with a can opener at any time depending on whether it happens to have a dev that knows their a*ss from their elbow.

Oh really. Is this dev with the ass-elbow PhD the one that managed to 'accidentally' release Dark Cash's instamine feature? Which one is it? Incompetence or deception?

And you clearly don't understand how ring signatures or Monero work. Try again, please - there's no credit involved.

[TechorMarketing]

Noteworthy is the amount of volume traded as well. Dash is pumped up with a lot less volume (a sign of an instamined piece of sh*t).

Last Dash Revaluation: December/January

3 Day volume around Dec 28th = 2750 BTC
3 Day volume around Jan 25th = 5250 BTC

Total: ~10k BTC

Is addition really that difficult? What grade are you in? My niece in 1st grade knows how to add 2750 and 5250. Would you like to hire her as a math tutor? Since she likes math I am sure she would prefer to be paid in Monero.

[toknormal]

Is addition really that difficult? What grade are you in? My niece in 1st grade knows how to add 2750 and 5250.

LoL. Touché. Corrected thanks 

And you clearly don't understand how ring signatures or Monero work. Try again, please - there's no credit involved.

Indeed. There's no credit involved which is my whole point.

[canth]

Is addition really that difficult? What grade are you in? My niece in 1st grade knows how to add 2750 and 5250.

LoL. Touché. Corrected thanks 

And you clearly don't understand how ring signatures or Monero work. Try again, please - there's no credit involved.

Indeed. There's no credit involved which is my whole point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgz5-8chSlk

[CoinEnthusiast]

I'm seeing a few exchanges mirroring this. wasn't hard to find.

XMR/BTC   0.001551 ↓   -16.17 %
DASH/BTC   0.008049 ↑   -9.35 %

See the arrows there? One is going back up, other is continuing down.

Dash €2.9968
High: 3.42921005
Low: 2.78909078

Monero ... _ wait, there's nothing for fiat. odd.. Funny how prices go down when BTC goes up isnt it? Monero is dropping more though by your logic that means it's dead right? Why would you guys continue to argue over your personal and vested interests?

[generalizethis]

I'm seeing a few exchanges mirroring this. wasn't hard to find.

XMR/BTC   0.001551 ↓   -16.17 %
DASH/BTC   0.008049 ↑   -9.35 %

See the arrows there? One is going back up, other is continuing down.

Dash €2.9968
High: 3.42921005
Low: 2.78909078

Monero ... _ wait, there's nothing for fiat. odd.. Funny how prices go down when BTC goes up isnt it? Monero is dropping more though by your logic that means it's dead right? Why would you guys continue to argue over your personal and vested interests?

I have XMR @ .0018 on Polo and on coinmarketcap? Now, I see what you did, you cherry picked from BTER's low volume of 0.03%

[CoinEnthusiast]

I'm seeing a few exchanges mirroring this. wasn't hard to find.

XMR/BTC   0.001551 ↓   -16.17 %
DASH/BTC   0.008049 ↑   -9.35 %

See the arrows there? One is going back up, other is continuing down.

Dash €2.9968
High: 3.42921005
Low: 2.78909078

Monero ... _ wait, there's nothing for fiat. odd.. Funny how prices go down when BTC goes up isnt it? Monero is dropping more though by your logic that means it's dead right? Why would you guys continue to argue over your personal and vested interests?

I have XMR @ .0018 on Polo and on coinmarketcap? Now, I see what you did, you cherry picked from BTER's low volume of 0.03%

Was easy to do. Google gave it as the first result. Not the only one like that. The ones you mention look like a bubble is going to burst. Looks like BTC did before it dropped below 1200. Good warning to sell now. I'm guessing you did or are trying to ride the wave a little more before you do. Risky game. Regardless, when you can actually do something with it other than trade, maybe i'll come back you and tell you that your coin has some actual value.

[generalizethis]

I'm seeing a few exchanges mirroring this. wasn't hard to find.

XMR/BTC   0.001551 ↓   -16.17 %
DASH/BTC   0.008049 ↑   -9.35 %

See the arrows there? One is going back up, other is continuing down.

Dash €2.9968
High: 3.42921005
Low: 2.78909078

Monero ... _ wait, there's nothing for fiat. odd.. Funny how prices go down when BTC goes up isnt it? Monero is dropping more though by your logic that means it's dead right? Why would you guys continue to argue over your personal and vested interests?

I have XMR @ .0018 on Polo and on coinmarketcap? Now, I see what you did, you cherry picked from BTER's low volume of 0.03%

Was easy to do. Google gave it as the first result. Not the only one like that. The ones you mention look like a bubble is going to burst. Looks like BTC did before it dropped below 1200. Good warning to sell now. I'm guessing you did or are trying to ride the wave a little more before you do. Risky game. Regardless, when you can actually do something with it other than trade, maybe i'll come back you and tell you that your coin has some actual value.

First off, you said a few exchanges had that price--I only found one, and it was the one with the lowest volume. So either you are confused what "a few" means or you are intentionally being deceptive--IE, you are lying. Secondly, if you go through my post history, you'll see that I'm a long time XMR supporter and "riding the wave," is an incorrect supposition on your part. But good luck in your trading.

[shanem]

Both coins are collapsing but at least Monero is up more than 70% from its low. It looks like DASH pump is over since January and it will continue its downtrend back to 0.006 again.

[iCEBREAKER]

XPOST because DashHoles love to go crying to the Mods and getting 100% on-topic posts removed:

Seems like we have a downwards breakout... I hope that 130 BTC support at 0.006 is not a "subtle" hint from whales on where it is going.

Looks like this wall is pulled , ideas?

Let's make a soda machine.  Oh wait, that was already done.

How about coffee mugs?  Hmm, tried that too.

Well I'm stumped.

Only ~30 Masternodes worth of Dash between Here and Zero.

Remember when you guys believed the price was going to stay above 0.01?  Aww, sweet memories!

How is Monero doing, champ?

Here is the XMR/DASH price chart from the last 100 days:

[americanpegasus]

Short Dash, long Monero.    
  
The Dash bubble will burst sooner rather than later and it will be the peasants left holding the bag.  You'll know the early adopters are hard cashing out to move to Monero once some long and thick red candles start plaguing the Dash charts.  
  
Like in Agar.io, we will quickly assimilate the wealth in that universe and continue onward.  Unlike Agar.io, there are substantial rewards for those who defect first vs. Continue to cooperate with a technically inferior system.  
  
Come on over, Dash supporters.  You will be welcomed with open arms.

[smooth]

Short Dash, long Monero.    
  
The Dash bubble will burst sooner rather than later

Hard to say. "The markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent."

[boolberry]

Short Dash, long Monero.    
  
The Dash bubble will burst sooner rather than later

Hard to say. "The markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent."

I agree that XMR has infinitely superior long term prospects than DASH, but I cannot recommend shorting the the reason Smooth stated. Timing and desperation are difficult to predict. Even if DASH fails long term a desperate but wealthy bagholder could place a huge buy order at any time and potentially force margin calls on many people who are selling short.

Experienced traders are free to make their own decisions, but I have never shorted DASH and would never recommend anyone else do something I am not prepared to do myself. I believe DASH will fail but the risks from shorting remain great.

[americanpegasus]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that anyone should actually go short on Dash. 
 
That would be very irresponsible as who knows what short-term hype can be drummed up.  As well, just like the previous two said - a whale can move the price however they want at the moment.

[iCEBREAKER]

Another day, another 1000BTC of market cap leaking from Dash into Monero.

Of all the coins people want to GTFO of today, in preference of Monero, none can top Dash.

It's a good thing Dash spends its Otoh-controlled budget on soda machines and overpriced marketing instead of market-rate bug bounties, otherwise the Bad Crypto of Darksend and InstantX would already be broken.

[Palider]

Another day, another 1000BTC of market cap leaking from Dash into Monero.

Of all the coins people want to GTFO of today, in preference of Monero, none can top Dash.

It's a good thing Dash spends its Otoh-controlled budget on soda machines and overpriced marketing instead of market-rate bug bounties, otherwise the Bad Crypto of Darksend and InstantX would already be broken.

I do not care too much about money moving away from one coin to another. If the Monero price is low, I will buy some.

[americanpegasus]

I'm really looking forward to the inevitable "Ethereum collapsing Monero UP" topic.  Shall we say.... when it crashes below $8?  And Monero goes above $2?

[lolikop]

I'm really looking forward to the inevitable "Ethereum collapsing Monero UP" topic.  Shall we say.... when it crashes below $8?  And Monero goes above $2?

Soonero

[languagehasmeaning]

Soonero

Soonero

I like that word!

[canth]

I'm really looking forward to the inevitable "Ethereum collapsing Monero UP" topic.  Shall we say.... when it crashes below $8?  And Monero goes above $2?

Soonero

Careful. I think Butterfly Labs has the exclusive trademark on that word.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Love it.  I haven't been following dash that long but I was surprised to see the first chart there. It's like 0.013 as I write this or something.   Hasn't exactly collapsed but it's lower. 

[iCEBREAKER]

Today is not a good day to be a DashHole.   

First, their attempt to surpass Maid as the #1 scam in crypto failed.  Dash's market cap was higher than Maid for like an hour, then went right back down to number two.

Then they tried to blame "Monero shills" for their instamined coin's crappy performance.

Too bad it was vertoe (ex-Darkcoin core dev, not affiliated with Monero), Peter Todd, and Greg Maxwell (BTC core devs, also not affiliated with Monero) who provided the most potent ammunition to use against the Evan's Gate cargo cult.

No wonder they are so enraged.  Just look at the amount of Epic Butthurt in this post.

To be fair and accurate, Peter Todd and Greg Maxwell (who provided some of the most devastating anti-Dash "FUD") are BTC core devs, not "shills."

To be actually fair and accurate, Eduardo, Hashfast-Scammer, deCastro using PITA Turd and Faggory MaxSell to push your pathetic shitcoin agenda is beyond ridiculous because we can instantly prove beyond any reasonable doubt that those dingleberries are both BUTTHURT beyond compare because DASH robbed them from their opportunities to brag and shine about shitty/flawed ideas they had.

Here's the evidence:

Greg Maxwell hates Dash because:

<gmaxwell> I already have a port of the bytecoin signature system to bitcoind... so I assume someone will do that.
<gmaxwell> (I'm not releasing it right now because all releasing it will do is cause a bunch of additional silly altcoins... created by people who couldn't even do the couple hours of work.
<gmaxwell> )

Clearly referring to (back then) DarkCoin and its superior CoinJoin implementation by Evan Duffield. Maxwell is shaking his fist like an angry old man because Evan took his imperfect and flawed idea (CoinJoin) and improved it in such a way to be actually useful for anonymous transactions (DarkSend). Saying he won't release source code in an open source project to avoid "silly altcoins" is the lamest excuse imaginable to hide his anger and fear that someone might take his idea. Silly child, he is really.

Peter Turd, the Hairy Potter faced villain of Bitcoin blocked me on Twitter (LOL) because I thanked him for his double spend attack on Coinbase because it was perfect marketing towards DASH's InstantX technology.
InstantX makes his retarded Replace-By-Fee rip-off scheme completely obsolete and that angers the shit out of him. That is why he called Dash snake oil without ever providing a single technical argument as to why.

As you can see, iCERAPER, your two toilet-seat icons here are the ones who are devastated. Not Dash.

Let's also not forget that these twats are among those choking Bitcoin to death by preventing a blocksize increase through manipulation, tyranny and censorship.

As for Dash being "respectable," vertoe debunked that self-serving community delusion when she quit being a Dash core dev.

HAHAHAHAHA! Vertoe? Still? The ridiculed CACHECOIN SCAMMER everyone despises? Are you in love with "her" because "she" is another scammer, like you?

If only we could somehow capture the astronomical amounts of poutrage in Macro's post, it would supply the world with unlimited energy!   

And here is the cherry on top.   

[iCEBREAKER]

Now that Lightning is being tested on Segnet4, there is no future for Dash's silly attempt to scale Layer 1 using Masternodes (especially when InstantX lacks the malleability fixes segwit provides).

Exmo   
Dash   

[Febo]

From last 2 posts is lovely seen there are daily mined like 4 times more Moneros then Dash. Monero emission decreased drastically in last 2 years. But I wonder exactly when it will get even.

Is funny the price is also 1:4

Generally all alts went up lately including Dash. But Monero doubled that since was way undervalued at beginning of the year.

[iCEBREAKER]

What a terrible week for poor D-ASH.

Every day Bitcoin enjoys advances in development as it finishes Layer 1 and prepares to start building Layer 2.

Meanwhile, D-ASH stagnates, with no plans to add modern features like SEGWIT, Lightning, RBF, CLTV/CSV, and sidechains.

In this state of decay, D-ASH will never be able to match the next wave of crypto magic, such as MAST.

The bizarre thing is how Evan's Gate cargo cult members struggle to rationalize D-ASH's technological dead end.

They know SEGWIT will enable Schnorr signatures, which are crucial for scaling blockchains using CoinJoin/Shuffle.

But when pressed, they pretend to be pleased with D-ASH's commitment to stay stuck in 2014-era Bitcoin technology.

Dash can't support sidechains or Lightning

I think thats the whole point.

Monero now has (at least) 7 types of gorgeous physical coins available.

Cryptonic makes unfunded silver, silver plated, and copper ones.

Lealana (smoothie) makes funded silver rounds in three different color schemes.

luigi1111 made his out of pure gold.

Too bad Finite By Design got so horribly fucked over by Evan Duffield, when F*D's physical Darkcoins became obsolete the instant THE DARKCOIN FOUNDATION INC. decided to try escaping their shady past using a sudden rebrand/pivot to D-ASH.

[iamnotback]

Meanwhile, D-ASH stagnates, with no plans to add modern features like SEGWIT, Lightning, RBF, CLTV/CSV, and sidechains.

In this state of decay, D-ASH will never be able to match the next wave of crypto magic, such as MAST.

They know SEGWIT will enable Schnorr signatures, which are crucial for scaling blockchains using CoinJoin/Shuffle.

Blockstream's tech is not very good:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg15121943#msg15121943

They are just leading us toward centralization and enslavement:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1505252.msg15144755#msg15144755

[iCEBREAKER]

Monero is gaining fresh GUI and RingCT code.  Dash is losing Armory wallet support.

Still "No Comment" from Duffield about if Dash will ever support versionbits, CLTV/CSV, SEGWIT, MAST, RBF, sidechains, Lightning/payment channels, etc.

We should start counting how many BIPs Dash has fallen behind...   


The predictable market reaction:

[iCEBREAKER]

[Raja_MBZ]

Monero could be the next target of GPU miners, after ethereum. GPU miners may turn to Monero after the difficulty of ethereum goes out of control of graphic cards resulting in more expensive electric bills than the mined ethereum. That'd definitely boost the cost of this coin even more.

[Febo]

Monero could be the next target of GPU miners, after ethereum. GPU miners may turn to Monero after the difficulty of ethereum goes out of control of graphic cards resulting in more expensive electric bills than the mined ethereum. That'd definitely boost the cost of this coin even more.

Not only GPU but also CPU miners.

[smooth]

Monero could be the next target of GPU miners, after ethereum. GPU miners may turn to Monero after the difficulty of ethereum goes out of control of graphic cards resulting in more expensive electric bills than the mined ethereum. That'd definitely boost the cost of this coin even more.

Not only GPU but also CPU miners.

Well, it is a nice balance that it can be mined with both, and has been since shortly after launch when GPU miners became available. Recently there has probably been relatively little GPU mining because Ethereum mining has captured most of the GPUs. In the future maybe they will come back. 

[iCEBREAKER]

The trend is clear:



Monero will continue to gain market cap as Dash hemorrhages value.

Dash's best days are far in the past, in the Darkcoin age.

Having no plans to add competitive new scaling features like MAST, RBF/CPFP, CSV/CLTV, SEGWIT, sidechains, and Lightning, Dash will stagnate as Bitcoin and Monero advance.

Monero's future is very bright, as it stands to gain from an official GUI, multisig, i2p, 0MQ, and (the Holy Grail of e-cash privacy) RingCT.  

[TechorMarketing]

Code:

The GUI is currently functional for sending and receiving, some stuff like advanced options have to be finished but if you guys want you can already try and compile it from ilya´s github.

Source

[raphma]

Code:

The GUI is currently functional for sending and receiving, some stuff like advanced options have to be finished but if you guys want you can already try and compile it from ilya´s github.

Source

sounds like a good opportunity 
lets buy a few and see if it will go up.

[X7]

Over the last month Monero has broken out over and held up at 0.003, while Darkcoin tested and failed to maintain 0.021.  

Both resistance points are roughly triple their respective coin's monthly low:



Monero's gains are based on a sustainable staircase pattern of rises to new highs followed by periods of consolidation, driven by excitement about the immanent DB and a blossoming ecosystem of value-adding services.



OTOH, Darkcoin only enjoyed a brief blow-off top because of an ill-conceived rebrand that succeeded only in driving off vertoe, one of their last three two core devs.

Oh look , a guy with a Monero sig is bashing DRK while promoting Monero - shocked.

[iCEBREAKER]

Over the last month Monero has broken out over and held up at 0.003, while Darkcoin tested and failed to maintain 0.021.  

Oh look , a guy with a Monero sig is bashing DRK while promoting Monero - shocked.

Thanks for reminding me of that post!

Over one year later, XMR is again at 0.003 BTC, while Dash-coin has suffered tremendous setbacks and can barely maintain 0.01.

That's what happens when Dash gives up on trying to keep apace with the latest Bitcoin tech, such as RBF, CPFP, CLTV/CSV, and SEGWIT.   

Monero is approaching 50% of Dash's market cap.  Months ago, I told you this diffusion would intensify.   

And we don't yet even have our GUI, nor killer features like RingCT and Kovri.

Listen to what the market (not just "a guy with a Monero sig is bashing DRK while promoting Monero") is telling you.

The market is screaming in support of the "DASH Collapsing Monero UP" investment thesis.

I told you this back in March of last year.  And you try to hold that against me?  Who are you trying to fool?   

[TechorMarketing]

Over the last month Monero has broken out over and held up at 0.003, while Darkcoin tested and failed to maintain 0.021.

Oh look , a guy with a Monero sig is bashing DRK while promoting Monero - shocked.

Thanks for reminding me of that post!

Over one year later, XMR is again at 0.003 BTC, while Dash-coin has suffered tremendous setbacks and can barely maintain 0.01.

That's what happens when Dash gives up on trying to keep apace with the latest Bitcoin tech, such as RBF, CPFP, CLTV/CSV, and SEGWIT.  

Monero is approaching 50% of Dash's market cap.  Months ago, I told you this diffusion would intensify.  

And we don't yet even have our GUI, nor killer features like RingCT and Kovri.

Listen to what the market (not just "a guy with a Monero sig is bashing DRK while promoting Monero") is telling you.

The market is screaming in support of the "DASH Collapsing Monero UP" investment thesis.

I told you this back in March of last year.  And you try to hold that against me?  Who are you trying to fool?  

DASH leaders don't let the facts (that DASH continues to lose ground in BTC terms) get in their way. Instead they move the goalposts by choosing to track valuation in fiat terms instead of BTC:

Comparing the DASH value to one year ago, we see a similar gain. There has been a 113.06% price increased compared to July 14th 2015.

http://dashpaymagazine.com/index.php/2016/07/14/dash-increased-value-past-year/

[iCEBREAKER]

Over the last month Monero has broken out over and held up at 0.003, while Darkcoin tested and failed to maintain 0.021.

Oh look , a guy with a Monero sig is bashing DRK while promoting Monero - shocked.

Thanks for reminding me of that post!

Over one year later, XMR is again at 0.003 BTC, while Dash-coin has suffered tremendous setbacks and can barely maintain 0.01.

That's what happens when Dash gives up on trying to keep apace with the latest Bitcoin tech, such as RBF, CPFP, CLTV/CSV, and SEGWIT.  

Monero is approaching 50% of Dash's market cap.  Months ago, I told you this diffusion would intensify.  

And we don't yet even have our GUI, nor killer features like RingCT and Kovri.

Listen to what the market (not just "a guy with a Monero sig is bashing DRK while promoting Monero") is telling you.

The market is screaming in support of the "DASH Collapsing Monero UP" investment thesis.

I told you this back in March of last year.  And you try to hold that against me?  Who are you trying to fool?  

DASH leaders don't let the facts (that DASH continues to lose ground in BTC terms) get in their way. Instead they move the goalposts by choosing to track valuation in fiat terms instead of BTC:

Comparing the DASH value to one year ago, we see a similar gain. There has been a 113.06% price increased compared to July 14th 2015.

http://dashpaymagazine.com/index.php/2016/07/14/dash-increased-value-past-year/

Many silver/gold mining stocks (EG Hecla) have posted >100% annual gains.  Why invest in a risky scam like Dash when they can't beat a 100+ year old company's (with real assets) ROI?

[iCEBREAKER]

Monero is enjoying a surge based on the good news trifecta of

- DNM Oasis implementing XMR "soon"

- RingCT reaching privacy Holy Grail

- Official GUI very very very "soon"

- Great Success at StackExchange

Meanwhile, Dash can't even come close to achieving StackEx listing, and its price is floundering after yet another Otoh-based pump and dump.

 

[nzminer]

Monero is enjoying a surge based on the good news trifecta of

- DNM Oasis implementing XMR "soon"

- RingCT reaching privacy Holy Grail

- Official GUI very very very "soon"

- Great Success at StackExchange

Meanwhile, Dash can't even come close to achieving StackEx listing, and its price is floundering after yet another Otoh-based pump and dump.

 

Dash had its recent pump because of a mobile phone app, will be interesting to see where it settles.

[harry nabin]

Febo is absolutely right. i am agree with u 

[harry nabin]

nice balance it can be mined with both. GPU, CPU

[Febo]

Seems there are still some cheap XMR coins left at 0.006BTC.

[ethereumhunter]

this is the time for XMR to get pump, and many people was predict that it will be in 0.006 and its happen in just a few hours and now in polo, i see the rate is 0.008 wow i think the market is give me more profit 

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Go Dash!  I just bought some on yobit for the first time in a long time, but they're saying withdrawal for Dash is temporarily turned off.  Is that because of the forking thing?  Has that been resolved?   I'm not even going to try to talk to yobit.

[iCEBREAKER]

Go Dash!  I just bought some on yobit for the first time in a long time, but they're saying withdrawal for Dash is temporarily turned off.  Is that because of the forking thing?  Has that been resolved?   I'm not even going to try to talk to yobit.

Dash's forking risk increases to the point of certainty as Derpfield piles on additional layers of untested homespun convoluted crap crypto.

Your situation with Yobit is hilarious and I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.   

Dash's market cap is tending towards zero as Monero goes hyperbolic.

It's irresponsible to trust 3rd parties like Masternodes; no DNM that isn't a honey pot will let their users compromise themselves and others using Dash's fake/slow "snakeoil" (per Peter Todd) privacy.

When XMR passes Dash's market cap perhaps a few of the less Kool-Aidy members of the cargo cult will see the light and dump their Masternodes while their worth >nothing.

[nzminer]

Sounds like recent Monero pump is due to darknet markets adding it?

[bitebits]

Sounds like recent Monero pump is due to darknet markets adding it?

Because of it's fundamentals around true financial privacy, yes Monero is being adopted by the DNM's.

[iCEBREAKER]

Sounds like recent Monero pump is due to darknet markets adding it?

Because of it's fundamentals around true financial privacy, yes Monero is being adopted by the DNM's.

Is it true?^®

[rangedriver]

Thanks BasilPop. I'll be sure to check that out.

[rangedriver]

[iCEBREAKER]

Thanks BasilPop. I'll be sure to check that out.

Hmm, good idea!

[letsplayagame]

Checkmate

[smoothie]

Dash Marketcap DESTROYED.

Where is this going to settle is the question.

[swisswatch]

Damn, XMR market cap is bigger than dash now, it is the new no.1 anonymous coin. Congratulations dude, you are rich now.  

ATH 0.0144

[nzminer]

LOL, epic monero pump, wish i mined it for longer.
Ironic thing is that all my mined monero is useless because of all the micro payments made to me in the pool

BTW... The volume is now nearly $47 million!

[infofront]

Dash Marketcap DESTROYED.

Where is this going to settle is the question.

I'm guessing around #30-40 on coinmarketcap by the end of the year.

Now that it's been collectively realized that DASH is not anonymous, and really serves no purpose whatsoever (other than benefiting the insta-miners), it will collapse like the thousands of shitcoins before it have.

[iCEBREAKER]

Remember this was a few days ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/4xqsth/eat_our_dust/

I'm laughing so hard right know, cant even type 

That thread is comedy gold.

suck it xmr. you had the chance to get on the train. too late trollero

Sounds like our old scammer friend TheDashGuy went all in on Steem tokens.

Let's start a Sour Grapes Archive for all the salty, butthurt posts by DashHoles, divided into before and after XMR>DASH market cap.   

I am not touching XMR due to trolls, wile developers and lack of gui wallet. 

Also, its backed up by known scammers, not touching anything scammers are involved in.   

Dont care for darkmarkets, dont care for current market cap, really dont.   

[Febo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FHeXrY65V4&feature=youtu.be

From times when 0.5 XMR was only $0.25

[iCEBREAKER]

Sounds like our old scammer friend TheDashGuy went all in on Steem tokens.

I really hope he doesn't still have those 300 XMR he scammed.

Nope, he sold them for Dash, back when Dash were expensive.   

[iCEBREAKER]

More DashHoles quoted for hilarity.

Monero is insecure as fuck and has to permanently attack Dash because of that as it lacks any of the revolutionary and mind-blowing features Dash has pioneered. Monero is a one-trick pony with zero features of their own. Any CryptoNote-clone has the same technology Monero offers while Dash has a self-funding model, instantly confirmed double-spend proof transactions, governance by blockchain, incentivized full nodes and tons of other new features which are being developed right now. The current price explosion in Dash (13 Dollars right now) is well deserved and only the beginning of mass adoption. Something Trollero will forever only dream of.

Ironically, "mass adoption" and "price explosion" of Monero began shortly after this post was made.  A Trollero dream come true!   

These "Monero sux0rz! Buy DASH instead Because Marketcap" posts are comedy gold.

Dash has a lot more going for it than just anonymity. We have Instantsend, a governance system, a treasury to fund development and expansion etc. If none of those things matter to you then I guess you should switch to a coin with less than half our market cap.

Dash is the superior technology and the markets irrefutably reflect that -> http://coinmarketcap.com/

[one week later]

-> http://coinmarketcap.com

Monero +78%  $111,000,000
Dash -12%  $78,000,000

 

[smoothie]

More DashHoles quoted for hilarity.

Monero is insecure as fuck and has to permanently attack Dash because of that as it lacks any of the revolutionary and mind-blowing features Dash has pioneered. Monero is a one-trick pony with zero features of their own. Any CryptoNote-clone has the same technology Monero offers while Dash has a self-funding model, instantly confirmed double-spend proof transactions, governance by blockchain, incentivized full nodes and tons of other new features which are being developed right now. The current price explosion in Dash (13 Dollars right now) is well deserved and only the beginning of mass adoption. Something Trollero will forever only dream of.

Ironically, "mass adoption" and "price explosion" of Monero began shortly after this post was made.  A Trollero dream come true!   

These "Monero sux0rz! Buy DASH instead Because Marketcap" posts are comedy gold.

Dash has a lot more going for it than just anonymity. We have Instantsend, a governance system, a treasury to fund development and expansion etc. If none of those things matter to you then I guess you should switch to a coin with less than half our market cap.

Dash is the superior technology and the markets irrefutably reflect that -> http://coinmarketcap.com/

[one week later]

-> http://coinmarketcap.com

Monero +78%  $111,000,000
Dash -12%  $78,000,000

 

The ignorance of some of the dash supporters is actually quite funny.

I do hope that they can be humble and realize their errors and admit they were wrong instead of baselessly attacking monero.

[nzminer]

Monero is the clear winner for anon crypto.

And if you want an alternative to DASH with fair distribution and better features, check out DARK SILK.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1601099

[GreekBitcoin]

Monero is the clear winner for anon crypto.

And if you want an alternative to DASH with fair distribution and better features, check out DARK SILK.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1601099

But why on Earth would anyone want an alternative to DASH?

[iCEBREAKER]

Monero is the clear winner for anon crypto.

And if you want an alternative to DASH with fair distribution and better features, check out DARK SILK.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1601099

But why on Earth would anyone want an alternative to DASH?

Some people are interested in Dash's PoS/PoW hybrid model, Masternodes, etc. but disagree with the instamining, centralization, etc.

Learn more at http://www.dashclassic.org/

The Original Vision of Darkcoin.


Fair Launch.  No Instamine.  No Foundation.

Darkcoin began with a grand vision of anonymous transactions, infinite scalability, and decentralized governance.  Unfortunately that vision has been lost, due to the Instamine fiasco, centralized Foundation, and autocratic Dash rebranding.


Now Dash Classic is here to restore the glorious original intent of Darkcoin, updated for the modern world with all of the good things Old Dash has to offer, and without the undesirable baggage that causes many to call Old Dash a scam.

[Gahs]

[one week later]

-> http://coinmarketcap.com

Monero +78%  $111,000,000
Dash -12%  $78,000,000

 

It's funny the kind of changes that can occur within a week. Which makes me wonder if it were not possible that Dash would gain a market cap of $120M in two weeks. Funny things happen in the crypto world.

[bobmarley650]

XMR- 250.000.000 $ Market Cap.
Dash- 0.01 BTC

That's my prediction.

[TrueCryptonaire]

XMR- 250.000.000 $ Market Cap.
Dash- 0.01 BTC

That's my prediction.

I can easily see Monero being worth ~ 10 000 usd/XMR and bitcoins being traded against Monero with the rate of 0.02 XMR/BTC.
Dark coin I do not see future anymore. Only one anon coin should survive IMO. Being it XMR or DRK. Looks like it is going to be XMR.

[vokain]

This is a pair trade if I've ever seen one 

[iCEBREAKER]

[iCEBREAKER]

This is a pair trade if I've ever seen one 

Good call!

I can't believe we just passed Litecoin's market cap.   

[lsqgoddess]

This is a pair trade if I've ever seen one 

Good call!

I can't believe we just passed Litecoin's market cap.   

1   Bitcoin Bitcoin   $9,106,541,695   $574.65   15,846,972 BTC   $119,053,000   0.46%   sparkline
2   Ethereum Ethereum   $997,970,978   $11.94   83,608,068 ETH   $11,317,700   -1.56%   sparkline
3   Ripple Ripple   $210,202,139   $0.005952   35,316,813,001 XRP *   $615,121   -0.29%   sparkline
4   Litecoin Litecoin   $180,738,814   $3.81   47,392,979 LTC   $1,334,610   -0.04%   sparkline
5   Monero Monero   $173,131,539   $13.52   12,806,250 XMR   $53,529,800   61.68%   sparkline

Why your monero ranking is 3rd? My monero is ranking on 5th.

[Febo]

Why your monero ranking is 3rd? My monero is ranking on 5th.

He cut off none mineable coin Ripple. And Litecoin got back ahead of Monero. Litecoin will go back behind Monero market cap and stay there forever.

For ripple is easy, since is not mineable they can just print few billions of ripple and their market cap raise. You cant compare market cap of BTC and XMR with Ripple.

[smoothie]

Now that monero has surpassed Dash in marketcap and price...what do those who support dash say now?

At one point it was "lack of gui" is why monero is priced lower. Now what?

The justification sometimes surprises me.

Is it now that monero is "too private"?

#movingtarget

[Qartersa]

XMR- 250.000.000 $ Market Cap.
Dash- 0.01 BTC

That's my prediction.

I can easily see Monero being worth ~ 10 000 usd/XMR and bitcoins being traded against Monero with the rate of 0.02 XMR/BTC.
Dark coin I do not see future anymore. Only one anon coin should survive IMO. Being it XMR or DRK. Looks like it is going to be XMR.

If that is the case, then most active users of the Monero threads will be rich. I think they own a few Monero at least.

[bbc.reporter]

Now that monero has surpassed Dash in marketcap and price...what do those who support dash say now?

At one point it was "lack of gui" is why monero is priced lower. Now what?

The justification sometimes surprises me.

Is it now that monero is "too private"?

#movingtarget

There is the argument arising that the view key feature of Monero could be a liability. I am curious if you are caught by the authorities, can a court order force you to use it and show your XMR transactions? If it can why not get rid of thr view key feature? What is the reason why it is there?

[smoothie]

Now that monero has surpassed Dash in marketcap and price...what do those who support dash say now?

At one point it was "lack of gui" is why monero is priced lower. Now what?

The justification sometimes surprises me.

Is it now that monero is "too private"?

#movingtarget

There is the argument arising that the view key feature of Monero could be a liability. I am curious if you are caught by the authorities, can a court order force you to use it and show your XMR transactions? If it can why not get rid of thr view key feature? What is the reason why it is there?

Anything can be a liability.

The purpose of the viewkey feature is to allow the user to decide if they want to be transparent to whomever they choose to be transparent about their transactions. It empowers users to choose who gets to see their transactions or not, despite a court order. The freedom of choice whether it is "illegal" or "against the law".

Not all laws are just in our world...but i digress...

Shouldn't one be willing to work with authorities assuming there is good reason to?

"Caught"? Caught doing what?...assuming there is no illegal activities going on or no reason to believe that a user is using it for illegal/nefarious reasons, why would they need to prove their transactions other than a general audit?

[nzminer]

monero is the most private, block size is not an issue and blockchain pruning would work well for an anon currency anyway!

Only thing i dont like about monero is the transaction size, most of my mined stuff is worthless because of the micro payments made to me by the pool.

[smoothie]

monero is the most private, block size is not an issue and blockchain pruning would work well for an anon currency anyway!

Only thing i dont like about monero is the transaction size, most of my mined stuff is worthless because of the micro payments made to me by the pool.

I would imagine the micro payments have nothing to do with monero, but simply the pool software/settings/payment policy.

[nzminer]

monero is the most private, block size is not an issue and blockchain pruning would work well for an anon currency anyway!

Only thing i dont like about monero is the transaction size, most of my mined stuff is worthless because of the micro payments made to me by the pool.

I would imagine the micro payments have nothing to do with monero, but simply the pool software/settings/payment policy.

Yeah but why should the small transactions cost so much to make?

My total of Monero in my wallet is almost worthless because the fees to consolidate the small payments into full coins is almost worth the monero itself.

Now with bitcoin, if i had tons of micro payments made to my wallet, i dont have to do that at all, my wallet sees it joined together.

[smooth]

monero is the most private, block size is not an issue and blockchain pruning would work well for an anon currency anyway!

Only thing i dont like about monero is the transaction size, most of my mined stuff is worthless because of the micro payments made to me by the pool.

I would imagine the micro payments have nothing to do with monero, but simply the pool software/settings/payment policy.

Yeah but why should the small transactions cost so much to make?

My total of Monero in my wallet is almost worthless because the fees to consolidate the small payments into full coins is almost worth the monero itself.

Now with bitcoin, if i had tons of micro payments made to my wallet, i dont have to do that at all, my wallet sees it joined together.

Bitcoin works the exact same way. When you receive many small payments, the transactions to spend it are much larger and cost more.

[iCEBREAKER]

monero is the most private, block size is not an issue and blockchain pruning would work well for an anon currency anyway!

Only thing i dont like about monero is the transaction size, most of my mined stuff is worthless because of the micro payments made to me by the pool.

I would imagine the micro payments have nothing to do with monero, but simply the pool software/settings/payment policy.

Yeah but why should the small transactions cost so much to make?

My total of Monero in my wallet is almost worthless because the fees to consolidate the small payments into full coins is almost worth the monero itself.

Now with bitcoin, if i had tons of micro payments made to my wallet, i dont have to do that at all, my wallet sees it joined together.

Is the fee still too high with mixin=0?  You could sweep the dust together with that, then resend the combined total with a higher setting.

The issue is extra overhead costs incurred by the privacy provided by Cryptonote protocol's larger transaction footprint.

Moving Satoshis is relatively cheap and some miners consolidate dust to help the network.

Joining Tacoshis is harder because of the higher required fee relative to the size of the small inputs.

As its currently fairly unprunable UXTO set grows without bound, Monero cannot subsidize low/zero fee tx and must discourage on-chain micro-tx, until payment channels are available.

Perhaps some day we'll have an IntelliHashing Smart Wallet which will solo mine the blocks required to move around otherwise uneconomical amounts of XMR.  

[iCEBREAKER]

iCEBREAKER, smooths and Monero vindicated, great time. 

[bbc.reporter]

Any idea when Dash will be out of the top 10? I believe their development team have lost focus and now cannot catch up with Monero. They also shifted their strategy and want to become a legitimate payment platform. But how can they compete with the giant bitcoin?

[nzminer]

monero is the most private, block size is not an issue and blockchain pruning would work well for an anon currency anyway!

Only thing i dont like about monero is the transaction size, most of my mined stuff is worthless because of the micro payments made to me by the pool.

I would imagine the micro payments have nothing to do with monero, but simply the pool software/settings/payment policy.

Yeah but why should the small transactions cost so much to make?

My total of Monero in my wallet is almost worthless because the fees to consolidate the small payments into full coins is almost worth the monero itself.

Now with bitcoin, if i had tons of micro payments made to my wallet, i dont have to do that at all, my wallet sees it joined together.

Is the fee still too high with mixin=0?  You could sweep the dust together with that, then resend the combined total with a higher setting.

The issue is extra overhead costs incurred by the privacy provided by Cryptonote protocol's larger transaction footprint.

Moving Satoshis is relatively cheap and some miners consolidate dust to help the network.

Joining Tacoshis is harder because of the higher required fee relative to the size of the small inputs.

As its currently fairly unprunable UXTO set grows without bound, Monero cannot subsidize low/zero fee tx and must discourage on-chain micro-tx, until payment channels are available.

Perhaps some day we'll have an IntelliHashing Smart Wallet which will solo mine the blocks required to move around otherwise uneconomical amounts of XMR.  

Yes with mixin 0 it was still high, about 80% of my monero is the fee.
Anyway, im pretty sure they will find a solution for those affected when the price skyrockets further.

I know there are others with far more monero than me that were affected.

I did not know (as did many pool operators) at the time, hence it took some a while to make larger payouts to miners instead of trickle amounts.

[nzminer]

Any idea when Dash will be out of the top 10? I believe their development team have lost focus and now cannot catch up with Monero. They also shifted their strategy and want to become a legitimate payment platform. But how can they compete with the giant bitcoin?

No Idea, but DASH has far more functionality than BTC.

The Instamine will always show its ugly head from time to time and will be a hard thing for DASH to ever permanently brush away.

I think that its flawed however to think that its an advantage to be based on BTC code and even incorporate their updates into their wallet.
The whole "compatibility" thing is just a way to attract those who are into Bitcoin to look at a "quality" altcoin perhaps?

Either way, any blockchain technology can be made mainstream and used as a payment processor etc.

Always better to think outside the square and use fresh code.

[iCEBREAKER]

Any idea when Dash will be out of the top 10? I believe their development team have lost focus and now cannot catch up with Monero. They also shifted their strategy and want to become a legitimate payment platform. But how can they compete with the giant bitcoin?

No Idea, but DASH has far more functionality than BTC.

The Instamine will always show its ugly head from time to time and will be a hard thing for DASH to ever permanently brush away.

I think that its flawed however to think that its an advantage to be based on BTC code and even incorporate their updates into their wallet.
The whole "compatibility" thing is just a way to attract those who are into Bitcoin to look at a "quality" altcoin perhaps?

Either way, any blockchain technology can be made mainstream and used as a payment processor etc.

Always better to think outside the square and use fresh code.

Because of the network effect, DASH has far less functionality than BTC.

One example of this is the difference in mixing times and efficacy.  BTC mixing is faster and more effective than Dash's, due to the much larger number of participating individuals.

Bitcoin has critical mass.  Dash does not.

Dash doesn't even have a legal opinion on whether or not Masternodes are illegal unregistered HYIP securites.

Dash is also afraid to put up a bug bounty.  Say what you will about ShadowCash, but at least they embraced the known best practice of rewarding people for looking at their code/crypto.

DashHoles don't want to know if their money-laundering HYIP is illegal.

DashHoles don't want to know if there are massive flaws in their code and roll-your-own crypto.

That is not "far more functionality."  That is just cargo cult bullshit.   

[Azael]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_effect

"The common analogy is with the rolling of a small ball of snow down a snow-covered hillside. As it rolls the ball will pick up more snow, gaining more mass and surface area, and picking up even more snow and momentum as it rolls along."

I don't see any problems with XMR taking the same trip ETH did. Posting a prediction that in less than two months from today the market cap of Monero will be more than 1BN.

[nzminer]

Any idea when Dash will be out of the top 10? I believe their development team have lost focus and now cannot catch up with Monero. They also shifted their strategy and want to become a legitimate payment platform. But how can they compete with the giant bitcoin?

No Idea, but DASH has far more functionality than BTC.

The Instamine will always show its ugly head from time to time and will be a hard thing for DASH to ever permanently brush away.

I think that its flawed however to think that its an advantage to be based on BTC code and even incorporate their updates into their wallet.
The whole "compatibility" thing is just a way to attract those who are into Bitcoin to look at a "quality" altcoin perhaps?

Either way, any blockchain technology can be made mainstream and used as a payment processor etc.

Always better to think outside the square and use fresh code.

Because of the network effect, DASH has far less functionality than BTC.

One example of this is the difference in mixing times and efficacy.  BTC mixing is faster and more effective than Dash's, due to the much larger number of participating individuals.

Bitcoin has critical mass.  Dash does not.

Dash doesn't even have a legal opinion on whether or not Masternodes are illegal unregistered HYIP securites.

Dash is also afraid to put up a bug bounty.  Say what you will about ShadowCash, but at least they embraced the known best practice of rewarding people for looking at their code/crypto.

DashHoles don't want to know if their money-laundering HYIP is illegal.

DashHoles don't want to know if there are massive flaws in their code and roll-your-own crypto.

That is not "far more functionality."  That is just cargo cult bullshit.   

Yes those are very good points you have made

[Palider]

Any idea when Dash will be out of the top 10? I believe their development team have lost focus and now cannot catch up with Monero. They also shifted their strategy and want to become a legitimate payment platform. But how can they compete with the giant bitcoin?

No Idea, but DASH has far more functionality than BTC.

The Instamine will always show its ugly head from time to time and will be a hard thing for DASH to ever permanently brush away.

I think that its flawed however to think that its an advantage to be based on BTC code and even incorporate their updates into their wallet.
The whole "compatibility" thing is just a way to attract those who are into Bitcoin to look at a "quality" altcoin perhaps?

Either way, any blockchain technology can be made mainstream and used as a payment processor etc.

Always better to think outside the square and use fresh code.

The Dash got strong development team. One owner owns quite a lot of Dash, so he wants to see it succeed.

[Febo]

Any idea when Dash will be out of the top 10? I believe their development team have lost focus and now cannot catch up with Monero. They also shifted their strategy and want to become a legitimate payment platform. But how can they compete with the giant bitcoin?

No Idea, but DASH has far more functionality than BTC.

The Instamine will always show its ugly head from time to time and will be a hard thing for DASH to ever permanently brush away.

I think that its flawed however to think that its an advantage to be based on BTC code and even incorporate their updates into their wallet.
The whole "compatibility" thing is just a way to attract those who are into Bitcoin to look at a "quality" altcoin perhaps?

Either way, any blockchain technology can be made mainstream and used as a payment processor etc.

Always better to think outside the square and use fresh code.

The Dash got strong development team. One owner owns quite a lot of Dash, so he wants to see it succeed.

Yes but he also then owns masternodes, so he also owns the anonymity in DASH.

[bbc.reporter]

I have a question. Can the master nodes also be viewed as an internal mixer of Dash coins? Or is the function something more? I have always been curious about this.

[iCEBREAKER]

Hmm, it appears Evan's Gate cultists are reporting my posts warning of the fraud their community pushes on gullible noobs.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted.

it seems my dash buddies have left bitcointalk 

anyway when dash price plummets and then realize they need bitcoin users again to fuel their shitcoin. they will come back here 

I love reading the tragicomic "Budget Proposal" threads at Dashtalk.   

Yes, yes good DashHoles; bicker over the Free Shit which Evan Scamfield's magical printing press drops from the heavens, as is proper for and expected from a cargo cult.

They make it clear nobody has any idea WTF Dash is supposed to be or trying to do.  Soda machines?  Over-entitled grifter buses?  LOOL!!!

As Dash flounders, such desperate flailing intensifies.  At least we no longer have to endure toknormal and tante making shit up to justify their clueless 'Hurr-durr Dash privacy is better than Monero's Because Muh Reasons!' blathering.

Fiat gateways?  LOL, so Evan can cash out his Instamine directly to USD without messing with BTC?  Oh sure, that'll be popular with bagholders.

Liquidity incentives, so Dash's hilariously atrocious multi-day mixing times will be less obvious to naive noobs?  OK, that'll pass easily.

TheDashGuy's DigitalTrash marketing scam?  Nope.  Only a liar and thief like TDG could bridge the animosity between the XMR and Dash communities, bringing them together to condemn his (mutually offending) assclown antics.

It's remarkable that BigR, after engaging for many months, decided to Ignore me around the time Monero's market cap exceeded Dash's.  I'm sure that's just a coincidence and no butthurt was involved...   

Too bad whining to the mods can't help Dash.  Now that Monero has RingCT and a GUI, it's pretty much over for that instamined shitcoin.

[andyste]

monero new rising beutiful coin
good community is big ,good volume transaction is high
i think can batle with ethereum and litecoin to second placed cypto coin under bitcoin

[iCEBREAKER]

monero new rising beutiful coin
good community is big ,good volume transaction is high
i think can batle with ethereum and litecoin to second placed cypto coin under bitcoin

Monero just passed Dash again.

I love it when that happens and savor each occasion, as we never know when it may be the last one!   

[nzminer]

When Dark Silk comes online, it will replace DASH's position.

Its going to be far more secure and make it alot more fair for those wanting a masternode. 

[Palider]

When Dark Silk comes online, it will replace DASH's position.

Its going to be far more secure and make it alot more fair for those wanting a masternode. 

How about the ZCash? That is also an anonymous coin and could be used in the dark net in the future.

[Febo]

When Dark Silk comes online, it will replace DASH's position.

Its going to be far more secure and make it alot more fair for those wanting a masternode. 

How about the ZCash? That is also an anonymous coin and could be used in the dark net in the future.

ZCash dont have masternodes as Dark Silk and DASH. Not sure if you read at all what you quoted.

[Fragbait]

Monero should start go UP Soon and DASH should start COLLAPSING Soon. Anytime now. I think.

[Fragbait]

Monero market cap falls below 100M. Where's the dev?

[RobinHoodster]

The fight for the no. 1 privacy coin is intriguing. Monero vs Dash. it would be very funny if a new coin like shadowcash would take off with he price.  Having said that both monero and dash are good coin and I hold them both.

[smoothie]

Monero market cap falls below 100M. Where's the dev?

Don't worry the dev will get on it soon to raise the marketcap.

He needs to write some code to accomplish this.

[ArticMine]

The fight for the no. 1 privacy coin is intriguing. Monero vs Dash. it would be very funny if a new coin like shadowcash would take off with he price.  Having said that both monero and dash are good coin and I hold them both.

Dash is partnering with a blockchain analytics company. Here are some links:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1634185.0
https://btcmanager.com/news/business/dash-partners-with-coinfirm-to-become-amlkyc-compliant/
https://btcmanager.com/news/coinfirm-delivers-regulatory-solutions-will-it-take-hold/
https://www.coinfirm.io/

I am posting this with no further comment.

Edit: Sample report from Coinfirm.io: https://www.coinfirm.io/bitcoin/aml/17Qn3TPZJ3MrpSg6qKaxZvqFCqiB99mKKE

Either Dash has done a radical u-turn here or something is really wrong. One possibility is Coinfirm is infringing on the Dash trademark by claiming a partnership that does not exist. In any case the kind of blockchain "analytics" that Coinfirm.io claims to do is for the most part useless from an AML/KNC perspective but can be very damaging to the fungibility, privacy and anonymity of legitimate crypto currency users that are engaged in perfectly legal activities. Kind of like testing US currency for say cocaine and then accusing the holder of said currency of drug trafficking etc.

I am very strong believer in innocent until proven guilty, so I have nothing but contempt for this kind of blockchain "analysis".  

[iCEBREAKER]

The fight for the no. 1 privacy coin is intriguing. Monero vs Dash. it would be very funny if a new coin like shadowcash would take off with he price.  Having said that both monero and dash are good coin and I hold them both.

Dash is partnering with a blockchain analytics company. Here are some links:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1634185.0
https://btcmanager.com/news/business/dash-partners-with-coinfirm-to-become-amlkyc-compliant/
https://btcmanager.com/news/coinfirm-delivers-regulatory-solutions-will-it-take-hold/
https://www.coinfirm.io/

I am posting this with no further comment.

Edit: Sample report from Coinfirm.io: https://www.coinfirm.io/bitcoin/aml/17Qn3TPZJ3MrpSg6qKaxZvqFCqiB99mKKE

Either Dash has done a radical u-turn here or something is really wrong. One possibility is Coinfirm is infringing on the Dash trademark by claiming a partnership that does not exist. In any case the kind of blockchain "analytics" that Coinfirm.io claims to do is for the most part useless from an AML/KNC perspective but can be very damaging to the fungibility, privacy and anonymity of legitimate crypto currency users that are engaged in perfectly legal activities. Kind of like testing US currency for say cocaine and then accusing the holder of said currency of drug trafficking etc.

I am very strong believer in innocent until proven guilty, so I have nothing but contempt for this kind of blockchain "analysis".  

LOL, who is going to break the bad news to the DickPillMill.com guys?   

I would imagine their customers might tend to desire privacy for their potentially embarrassing impotence remedies.

[ArticMine]

Ok here is a post confirming this partnership from the Dash side on Dash.org https://www.dash.org/news/dash-adds-full-support-for-amlkyc-compliance-with-coinfirm/

[iCEBREAKER]

Wow, Dash is really getting trashed these days, while Monero's future looks so bright I have to wear sunglasses.

If anyone is wondering why, here is a great explanation from a recovering Evan's Gate cultist:

I sold all my Dash. Here is why and my view on the state of Dash

The three killer features of Dash have issues:

1) Governance - This was an important idea and could have been very interesting. However, this governance model is unproven and thus far the results are lacking. It has been little more a grants system. The few large projects done with it have all been failures (PR, website design, ATM integration).

2) Fungibility / anonymity - Dash anonymity is severely flawed. People can just mix bitcoin if they want Dash-level anonymity. For people who want real anonymity they can use Monero, which is already has more network than Dash.

There is no market room for a transparent coin. The reason is because people who want public transactions can already use Fiat money. In fact, using a credit card they have protection in the case of not receiving goods, so there is negative incentive to use a crypto. For people who need to transact in a crypto and who also do not care about priivacy, they already have bitcoin.

3) InstantSend - This is a great feature, but other coins essentially have this feature due to lower block confirmation times or they outright have or are adding this feature. Dash has not gained from this feature nor will it because it has failed to gain network size before others implement the feature.

What about Evolution?

Evolution looks like an interesting concept. However, the development timeline is too far out. Look at how long 12.1 has taken to develop. It is far overdue according to timeline. The official Evolution timeline is about 18 months I believe. If that is the official timeline you have to imagine the actual timeline will be far longer. Let's say 2.5 years.

By that point I am not sure Dash will have any relevancy given the fast paced development of other coins.

The evolution white paper still has left the area blank that addresses better privacy / fungibility / anonymity. That is concerning.

Ouch.

[TechorMarketing]

As of today 1 DASH masternode (1000 DASH) can still be traded 1000 XMR.

Prediction:

After this month, there will never be another chance to exchange 1000 DASH for 1000 XMR. Quote me and laugh all you want. My reasoning is supported by recent GitHub activity of both DASH and XMR.

Can't read code? Join the next Monero developer meeting on IRC to hear the latest updates. Here are the logs from the last meeting.

[TechorMarketing]

Over the last month Monero has broken out over and held up at 0.003, while Darkcoin tested and failed to maintain 0.021.  

Since you started this thread, XMR has more than tripled in value which DASH has fallen nearly 50%. This trend is likely to continue based on:

1. Larger and more active XMR development team
2. Faster growth of XMR usage and trading volume
3. Extremely strong and always improving XMR protocol level privacy (as a default) based on sound cryptography

[Febo]

As of today 1 DASH masternode (1000 DASH) can still be traded 1000 XMR.

Prediction:

After this month, there will never be another chance to exchange 1000 DASH for 1000 XMR. Quote me and laugh all you want. My reasoning is supported by recent GitHub activity of both DASH and XMR.

Can't read code? Join the next Monero developer meeting on IRC to hear the latest updates. Here are the logs from the last meeting.

One month from now Mr.Fluffypony Chief Steward of Monero will be on vacations. So you think that will help the price?

[iCEBREAKER]

As of today 1 DASH masternode (1000 DASH) can still be traded 1000 XMR.

Prediction:

After this month, there will never be another chance to exchange 1000 DASH for 1000 XMR. Quote me and laugh all you want. My reasoning is supported by recent GitHub activity of both DASH and XMR.

Can't read code? Join the next Monero developer meeting on IRC to hear the latest updates. Here are the logs from the last meeting.

One month from now Mr.Fluffypony Chief Steward of Monero will be on vacations. So you think that will help the price?

As part of his vacation, Fluffy will be representing Monero at very high profile places/events like Coinbase, Bitcoin Wednesday, NABC, Satoshi Roundtable, etc.  That will help the price.

One month from now Monero should have RingCT and an Official GUI.  That will also help the price.

Meanwhile, the ancient BTC fork now called "Dash" grows increasingly obsolete as Bitcoin adds new features like RBF, segwit, Lightning, Rootstock, sidechains, MAST, etc.

The 18 month trend of Dash's market cap leaking into Monero's will continue and may even accelerate.

[electronicash]

Dash i think will have its hard time now that there are somehow bunch of competitors offering the same features today. The rest are now investing to cheaper and has better technology and with the rise of komodo platform, dash may even not move up compare to eth.

[just_Alice]

Just now went on Yobit to see how the XMR doing last several days and found out that there is no Monero there. How is it posible? There are like 200 different coins there and no Monero?

Anyway, although XMR has dropped 50% in the last 3 months I think we can say it's rising steadily with time, excluding the beginning of September bulb when it went over 0.02. Actually now it is still in the stage of recovering from that bulb.

[Febo]

Just now went on Yobit to see how the XMR doing last several days and found out that there is no Monero there. How is it posible? There are like 200 different coins there and no Monero?

Anyway, although XMR has dropped 50% in the last 3 months I think we can say it's rising steadily with time, excluding the beginning of September bulb when it went over 0.02. Actually now it is still in the stage of recovering from that bulb.

Taking 3 month period is quite unfair, so as would be taking 4 month period.  3-4 months ago Monero had incredible growth.

Last 2 months Monero did well compared to all other coins, so as it did in 2016.

[TechorMarketing]

https://www.dash.org/

when can they fix it?

The website has been down for days and still no word from Evan Duffield. The masternode network paid him for the domain name so why does he control it? DId masternode owners get duffed?

Someone more responsible needs to be in charge of the domain registration

[sui_generis]

https://www.dash.org/

when can they fix it?

The website has been down for days and still no word from Evan Duffield. The masternode network paid him for the domain name so why does he control it? DId masternode owners get duffed?

Someone more responsible needs to be in charge of the domain registration

He's too busy enjoying his premine earnings

[TechorMarketing]

https://www.dash.org/
when can they fix it?

DId masternode owners get duffed?

Wow. Didn't realize you signed a Service Level Agreement with 99.999% uptime.

Come on dude they're working on it.

The fact that Evan duffed up again is not the point. Masternode owners paid for the domain

The three sponsors will request funding for this from Dash’s decentralized budget system over a period of four months at the coin’s price at the time of the purchase, $2.42.  This will work out to 2,100 DASH per month over the four month period.

This was paid off many months ago. If the budget system is going to keep any credibility the dash.org domain needs to be transfered to the community that paid for it. Getting duffed by Evan is bad enough. Voting for a budget and paying over 20k for the privilege is even worse.

[iCEBREAKER]

Monero is more private than DRK, requires no masternodes and actually works!
The DRK community had so many trolls spreading so much FUD on Monero and XC last year, but now things are coming back up again.

This.  Is.  Gentlemen.

[TechorMarketing]

Monero is more private than DRK, requires no masternodes and actually works!
The DRK community had so many trolls spreading so much FUD on Monero and XC last year, but now things are coming back up again.

This.  Is.  Gentlemen.

It is still not too late to convert 1 masternode into 1000 XMR. With Jaxx (first privacy option since DASH private send and ZEC "z" addresses are not supported by Jaxx while Monero is private by default) coming soon and RingCT activating early next month a 1/1 exchange might not be an option much longer

[thepo1m]

I still don't understand why all these noise of my father's farm is bigger than yours. Both are in thesame market space and are offering thesame service, it think they should be worry about the new kid in the street Zcash because if one of the Darkmarket adopt it, it is going to give both Dash and Monero a good run for their money

[smooth]

Just now went on Yobit to see how the XMR doing last several days and found out that there is no Monero there. How is it posible? There are like 200 different coins there and no Monero?

Most of those 200 coins are Bitcoin forks that require little to no coding to add to an exchange. Yobit apparently want to focus on adding many easy-to-support coins rather than the few such as Monero that actually generate large trading volumes.

[N-rG]

It is still not too late to convert 1 masternode into 1000 XMR. With Jaxx (first privacy option since DASH private send and ZEC "z" addresses are not supported by Jaxx while Monero is private by default) coming soon and RingCT activating early next month a 1/1 exchange might not be an option much longer

A bit cheap attempt to convince DASH users to buy XMR.

I think that most people who are able to invest 1000 coins for DASH are smart enough to see the pro/cons of XMR/DASH. I predict that next year DASH will have already at least 20% less masternodes.

[TechorMarketing]

It is still not too late to convert 1 masternode into 1000 XMR. With Jaxx (first privacy option since DASH private send and ZEC "z" addresses are not supported by Jaxx while Monero is private by default) coming soon and RingCT activating early next month a 1/1 exchange might not be an option much longer

A bit cheap attempt to convince DASH users to buy XMR.

I think that most people who are able to invest 1000 coins for DASH are smart enough to see the pro/cons of XMR/DASH. I predict that next year DASH will have already at least 20% less masternodes.

You are right that everyone had the choice to make their own choice. DASH is really good at certain things such as the use of graphics in marketing materials and taking pictures of trees. The tree below is beautiful I mean that sincerely.

Happy holidays (which ever you might celebrate) and happy new year everyone!

[bbc.reporter]

Dash is being manipulated in Poloniex to hold its current price versus bitcoin by buying up Dash/USDT. The volume of Dash/USDT is so low that it is easy to do this. Evan and his cohorts will never give up because they have already invested so much in Dash.

[iCEBREAKER]

It is still not too late to convert 1 masternode into 1000 XMR.

It's too late now.  Can't wait for Jaxx and RingCT soon^tm.

[iCEBREAKER]

Chances of Dash getting on Kraken and Coinbase at all-time lows.

Dash 

[Raja_MBZ]

Actually, both the crypto's are now at their deserving values in my opinion. Dash should not be valued more than 0.016 BTC and Monero should not be valued more than 0.014 BTC.

If any of these two is valued more, it'd be simply overpricing.

[iCEBREAKER]

Actually, both the crypto's are now at their deserving values in my opinion. Dash should not be valued more than 0.016 BTC and Monero should not be valued more than 0.014 BTC.

If any of these two is valued more, it'd be simply overpricing.

Sounds like 2011, when everyone "knew" Bitcoin valued at more than $50 would be grossly overpriced.   

Try driving by looking down the road instead of using the rearview mirror.

https://www.wired.com/2017/01/monero-drug-dealers-cryptocurrency-choice-fire/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/5q2lzp/rmonero_10_of_rbitcoin/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/5q528n/john_mcafee_believes_monero_will_overtake_bitcoin/

Do you see where this trend is going?

Hint: XMR isn't staying at a measly 0.014 BTC for much longer.

Pro Tip: fill your bags before Jaxx and Coinbase make XMR usable for the 99.9% of the population not comfortable with a command line interface.

Don't be like the people now being mocked in the follow up to the legendary "$0.25 Monero? What are you waiting for?" thread.

As emission decreases, strong hands will hold their increasingly irreplaceable coins ever tighter.

Shapeshift/Silkroad X acceptance is coming Soon, as are the DB and GUI.

MM88 is correct, this is the XMR buying opportunity of a lifetime.

Monero is pump and dump. No noticeable features except for HYPE.

Well Monero was definitely almost free, and I supported it a lot when it was almost 90 cents. I knew it had a lot of potential...

...but unfortunately, didn't purchase much at that price for myself!

[iCEBREAKER]

This is from today.  Despite the much-hyped launch of a "major upgrade" for Dash, the exchange rate is still looking like a dismal situation for the Evan's Gate cult.



Here's what you need to know about Dash's so-called "upgrade."

1. Dash removed RBF (replace by fee), an important innovation inherited from Bitcoin that allows users to replace a stuck tx's uncompetitive fee with a higher one.

2. No stakeholders voted to remove RBF.  It was done at the discretion of Evan Duffield without any input from the Masternode's governance theater.

3. 12.1 breaks compatibility with IPv6, another very usefule feature inherited from Bitcoin that's important for keeping the network diffuse and diverse.

4. 12.1 kicks 140 Masternodes off the network because they are using IPv6.

5. These 140 Masternodes didn't get to vote on removing IPv6.  Evan Duffield decided for them, because he is Dash's Dictator For Life.  So much for 'governance by blockchain.'

6. NOBODY CARES, basically.  For a supposedly "major upgrade" not many people noticed or commented.  Compare the response to Dash's latest version with the response to Monero's:

[iCEBREAKER]

Why was this video not posted here yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrKU0Ymta-U  

Oh my, what an unforgivable oversight!

Deepest apologies m'lud.  

[smoothie]

it looks like the DASH community is imploding: https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@thedashguy/warning-why-i-don-t-trust-the-price-of-dash-nor-the-community-be-careful-folks-invest-wisely-diversify

Is that not the same user that went around the XMR threads and reddit asking for donations then to throw it back in people's faces who donated to him?

[iCEBREAKER]

it looks like the DASH community is imploding: https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@thedashguy/warning-why-i-don-t-trust-the-price-of-dash-nor-the-community-be-careful-folks-invest-wisely-diversify

Is that not the same user that went around the XMR threads and reddit asking for donations then to throw it back in people's faces who donated to him?

LOL that guy is always drama.  Bet he feels stupid for selling the 250 XMR the nice Monero community gave him as a welcome present.

At least he's teachable.  We should send him some XMR tips for his take down of the Dash scam!   

[Warning] Why I don't trust the price of Dash, nor the community. Be careful folks. Invest wisely. Diversify.


1. Dash is centrally controlled. This is a fact.

Dash used to be one of my favorite parts of the internet, since discovering Bitcoin. I spent weeks upon weeks reading up on Dash, after years of learning about Bitcoin and it's faults, Dash (Drk) at the time seemed like a logical next step forward, so I dove head first into Dash for a little over a year and spent a majority of my time working alongside the community to dream up cool projects, spread the word about Dash and so on, once I started asking the hard questions about the core team being accountable, the slander slowly began to build. Before you knew it, I was known as the town troll for "asking too many questions" and was sidelined as much as possible, simply for being critical of the teams decisions and asking them to act in the best interests of Dash, they did not. They are making loads of cash while controlling the "governance system" with large amounts of Masternodes and upvoting their own backdoor deals with companies that are friends of friends and so on . Any sort of critical thinking is not welcome in the Dash ecosystem and you will be sidelined due to it. So be careful. They are acting in their own interests, not in the interest of cryptocurrency. Hence the echo chamber being so powerful.


2. Dash is under researched, overhyped. It's all marketing.

InstandSend is the ONLY good thing Dash has going for it (and its completely wasted), governance is completely and purposely flawed as to enable control for the core team of no only the funds, but the mechanisms that drive the governance system too. You'd be surprised to find out most of the important things sucks as forking and what not are handled by Evan and Evan only, there is no consensus mechanism to force anyone in core to do anything, thus they do as they please and remain largely unchecked in doing so.

Darksend is a gimmick, sure maybe it can't be cracked super easily, but the use of it is a complete joke, not to mention Dash recently teamed up with Coinfirm to track all Dash purchases in the network, sound a little backwards to you? It did to me to. They also have lawyered up using blockchain taxed funds, spent quite a pretty penny (hundreds of thousands) on their own little side projects such as Lamassu ATM integration which still has yet to come to fruition and so on. The point being, Dash is nothing but a big echo chamber, be careful believing anything that comes from that community, they lure you in with false hopes of a better world of crypto currency just to break your heart when you find out they really just want to start their own crypto bankster project for their own selfish needs, that is not what I signed up for.

The Dash I understood when I started reading the docs and listening to Evans videos was a new form of "digital cash" for the people, controlled by the people. The Dash I found was just another wanna be get rich quick scheme covered in all the right hopes and promises. Be weary folks, a REAL digital cash will arrive one day, it might be called Bitcoin, it might be #Monero, hell it might even be #Litecoin if they go privacy first, but one thing I do know is it will not be Dash, until the entire core team is gone and the community controls Dash.


3. The Dash community is disingenuous. The "governance system' is flawed. The Core team controls majority of Masternodes.

Everyone in the Dash community who is left minus a few brave and stubborn souls (achem Camosoul, GrandMaster & Solarminer) is part of the problem, they are all lazy crypto currency supporters who are just here to make a quick buck, the idea of changing the financial landscape forever has been lost to them. When I started with Bitcoin in 2011, the only thing I could ever think was how revolutionary Bitcoin really was and what good it could bring to our planet. Little did I know it was an unfinished product, Dash seemed to fill the gap temporarily, but after spending almost a year devoted to Dash, I quickly learned it was all a sham and some good marketing points. The governance system being the best part of Dash, until you realize Evan owns 400+ Masternodes, Daniel easily owns 200+, Otoh owns 400+, and so on... Well when you only have 3-4k nodes in the entire community and things only need 10% nodes to vote to pass, and the whales started out with Masternodes costing 1% of what they cost now, you can see how the community can quickly end up in the control of 'bad whales'.

Point being, the governance system is a joke, its as much of a governance system as a bankster scam aimed at making you feel like you are winning, while they are winning 1,000 more than you. How are those crumbs tasting fellas?


4. Darkcoin was a far superior coin to Dash, yet here we are. Why you ask?

Darkcoin was the basis for what Dash became, but Darkcoin was also MUCH more ahead of its time, back then Evan wasn't coding for revenue, he was coding to create an idea, that idea was a sort of 'digital cash' based on Bitcoin. Within a year or 2 his vision slowly changed into creating "Paypal 2.0" (and yes thats a quote rom him and multiple core team members, not my words). And that is where I call BS, they say anything they can to get some coverage and don't give a single damn about delivering the proper product. The Dash team will NEVER deliver a true digital cash, because that is not their end goal. Darkcoin was on the right track, but Dash is a completely different direction, hell Dash is actively running away from privacy as it is anyways... look at coinfirm...


5. Evan Duffield lacks a spine and a moral compass to do the right thing with Dash. Ryan "Babygiraffe" Taylor & Daniel Diaz are wanna-be failed banksters with a selfish end game that influence Evan heavily.

As I stated already Evan Duffield was on the right track with Darkcoin back in the day, but slowly over time he seemed to have morphed his vision of what digital cash should be from being an open sourced, community controlled, instant, private digital asset toooooo controlling your money, controlling the governance mechanism to ring as much money out of the project before it collapses on itself, getting their own office space paid for by the blockchain, paying themselves large sums of money and so on... doesn't seem right when there are villages all around the world dying for access to a worldwide economy now does it?

Ryan Taylor is an ex bankster with a selfish end game. This guy came around to Dash shortly after myself, was cool at first while he worked his way into the core team, but once things became a little more heated he quickly buckled down onto his knees and stopping trying to fight for the idea of a better Dash and became a leach himself. They hired him for help with finance, and ever since he's been the biggest figure in the Dash community besides Amanda in the public realm, you wonder why don't you? He's in it for himself, not for Dash, not for crypto currencies. He just wants his former bankster glory back.

Daniel Diaz is a complete half assed wanna sneaky snake like scammer. He's been around Evan since the beginning and he's the one that I attribute to ruining Evan's moral compass. He's the one who envisioned this crappy "paypal 2.0" idea and tried shoving it down the communities throat with deceit, lies and made up stories. He's the one who put his neck out there and said "WERE GETTING ON LAMASSU ATM'S!!" almost a year ago, and $100,000 later and countless excuses, there are still 0 Lamassu ATM's in the world... He's the reason the "governance" in Dahs is broken, because he has poisoned the well and turned Dash into a leeches paradise.


6. It's either 1 huge scheme or they really lack a higher purpose.

I could never really figure out which one it was, but after a few months of reflecting back on this I feel like it was a mix of both. People like Daniel and Ryan are scheming/leeching while people like Udjin (the best dev easily) and Evan are simply following the herd. I feel as if Dash was capable of being 1000x the product it is today if they would have embraced more decentralization, more worldwide change and more of a community focused mindset, then Dash could become the first truly decentralized economy, basically a skynet if you will. But the core team doesn't see it that way, they just see a big ol piggy bank when they see Dash, it's quite sad honestly. Hopefully someone clones the entire damn project and does it the right way, that'd be the best altcoin IMO. Either way, still not really sure whether it's one huge team scam or they just don't see the greater good they could be doing, or maybe they don't care? Who knows.  All I know is echo chambers never did a lick of good in the past and they damn sure won't start now.


7. The Dash core team is power hungry. The Dash community is blind.

As has been touched on earlier in this post, the Dash team has lost it's way. Dash could have been a world wide economy, the governance system could be used to employ ANYONE in the world, and yet they are sitting here hiring random companies that thier friends just happen to run to do stupid things like try and get ATM's set up everywhere, which is so backwards it makes no sense. Dash has InstandSend, people have smart phones. What the hell are they doing dropping $100,000+ dollars on ATM's you ask? Kickbacks I say, kickbacks. And the sad part of this is when you start pointing these types of things out to people in the community, the core team starts pinning you as a troll and what not just to run you off. This has happened countless times since the times of Darkcoin and I hope people will chime in and help people realize this isn't just a big old ranting post.


8. Dash COULD have been so much better, but greed killed it before it even got started.

Bitcoin was mean't to change the world, but has fallen short thus far. Dash came sooo close to filling the gap, but human greed seemed to have ruined any cryptopunk or libertarian ideology. People in charge of Dash think libertarians are stupid and childish (another quote), and that just never made sense to me.. Bitcoin was supposed to a libertarians dream come true, so when did this goal change? I'm still here waiting for the world to change, but in order to get there we'd have to have a fully decentralized or atleast distributed system that is fair for everyone, and provides everyone the same access to community funds in order to start creating a more economic model of crypto currency that can perform a proper digital asset with all the appropriate features such as speed, privacy, control and worldwide scalability. So far all the coins are falling short in one way or another and one day I think someone will hit the nail on the head and we'll either see that tech baked into Bitcoin, or some random coin take off overnight... not sure which yet. The main flaw of the Dash project seems to be greed, and lack of a moral compass.


9. Dash is basically a huge echo chamber supporting its own weight due to the Masternode system, it's nowhere close to being "digital cash' as it's marketed.

The biggest problem I found in this community and the same one that is true of most pyramid schemes is there is a massive echo chamber effect, everyone who sings the praises of Dash is a wonderful community member and is always talked to with respect and what not, but the second you start questioning things and making people feel as if they are being held to a standard, people will quickly turn around and happily tell you to leave because thinking is hard and people don't like things to be hard. I honestly think the people that are going to lose the most money when the core team decides to dump is going to be those exact users, which is sort of sad when you think about it. Sounds alot like a pyramid scheme to me, anyone? Lol oh and they even added a rating system which auto censors posts that get 4+ troll ratings, which they use VERYYYYY often to hide the complaints about them to the general public.


10. Dash is NOT Digital Cash, Dash is wanna be PayPal 2020, does any actually like PayPal? Thought so.

I've had repeated conversations with the core team in the past and various community members who blindly support them and I've asked them which they would prefer, digital cash or Paypal 2.0, and to my surprise the only ones who actually support the whole Paypal idea are the people in charge (core team) and their blind followers, because who wouldn't want to be the next billion dollar company? I mean I get it, but what happened to changing the world and doing it the right way?

Besides we all know PayPal is going to crush Dash in the long run, they are a billion dollar company getting put in a corner, I wouldn't be surprised if they already had eyes on Bitcoin & Dash and the recent acquisition of TIO which will give them access too hundreds of thousands of kiosks world wide, so much for that Lamassu Deal eh Daniel?


Good luck with your investments, always keep your eyes wide open, you never know when the floor is going to fall out from beneath you. And yes this is all true, and no I'm not trolling, just thought with all this Dash hype we could have a dose of reality.

Best wishes folks.

-Jake

[N-rG]

I am pro Monero but your comparison is so wrong. You cannot compare a sticky with >1 Month to a topic 15hours old

[iCEBREAKER]

I am pro Monero but your comparison is so wrong. You cannot compare a sticky with >1 Month to a topic 15hours old

The Monero thread has many more responses in any given time frame.

One month later, Dash's 12.1 thread still only has 15 messages (compare to Monero's 61).

https://www.reddit.com/r/dashpay/comments/5sdhiw/dash_version_121_release/

[TrueCryptonaire]

Perhaps someone could attack on Dark coin so that there will be a dump... 

[Blazed]

I am pro Monero but your comparison is so wrong. You cannot compare a sticky with >1 Month to a topic 15hours old

The Monero thread has many more responses in any given time frame.

One month later, Dash's 12.1 thread still only has 15 messages (compare to Monero's 61).

https://www.reddit.com/r/dashpay/comments/5sdhiw/dash_version_121_release/

They are too busy enjoying all that profit to reply to a thread. Looks like Dash is the king of the anons these days.

[TrueCryptonaire]

We want cheaper Dark coins!!!!   

[iCEBREAKER]

Looks like Dash is the king of the anons shitcoin scams these days.

FTFY. 

The Darkcoin days are long gone.  Dash is now more about joining forces with Coinfirm and less about anonymity/privacy/fungibility.

[TrueCryptonaire]

I think we should do something temporarily to their marketing scheme so that the price will not pump and it becomes more affordable for average Joes... What do you think?  

[bitwolf]

The Monero thread has many more responses in any given time frame.

One month later, Dash's 12.1 thread still only has 15 messages (compare to Monero's 61).

https://www.reddit.com/r/dashpay/comments/5sdhiw/dash_version_121_release/

Dash is so anon that only the masternodes, A. Johnson and qwizzie who is on duty 24/7 deleting "bad" posts about their coin are interested in the coin. Damn, they win !!!

P.S.Sry,  I forgot the local retard Spoetnik. Now their team is full.

[Febo]

I think we should do something temporarily to their marketing scheme so that the price will not pump and it becomes more affordable for average Joes... What do you think?  

Who are you guys?

You, Spoetnik, ceti and Evan?  Why would you guys want to ruin your marketing scheme? It brings you bread on your table.

[TrueCryptonaire]

I think we should do something temporarily to their marketing scheme so that the price will not pump and it becomes more affordable for average Joes... What do you think?  

Who are you guys?

You, Spoetnik, ceti and Evan?  Why would you guys want to ruin your marketing scheme? It brings you bread on your table.

Because it is better that Dark coin is cheap so that we can afford to buy some before they pump it next time even higher. 

[Ayers]

I think we should do something temporarily to their marketing scheme so that the price will not pump and it becomes more affordable for average Joes... What do you think?  

Who are you guys?

You, Spoetnik, ceti and Evan?  Why would you guys want to ruin your marketing scheme? It brings you bread on your table.

Because it is better that Dark coin is cheap so that we can afford to buy some before they pump it next time even higher. 

what if these price is cheap and dark coin is going to 0.1? better to buy know and don't regret later, because i was thinking like you when the past week dash was still at 0.03 now it's double, really regretting not buying more damn

[traderethereum]

I think we should do something temporarily to their marketing scheme so that the price will not pump and it becomes more affordable for average Joes... What do you think?  

Who are you guys?

You, Spoetnik, ceti and Evan?  Why would you guys want to ruin your marketing scheme? It brings you bread on your table.

Because it is better that Dark coin is cheap so that we can afford to buy some before they pump it next time even higher. 

what if these price is cheap and dark coin is going to 0.1? better to buy know and don't regret later, because i was thinking like you when the past week dash was still at 0.03 now it's double, really regretting not buying more damn

i think before we buy dark coin, we need to learn something about the trend or the buy and sell position in the market so we can make right decision and we can take profit. the price of dark is now too high, maybe we need to wait for a while so we can see the price is getting down and if this is getting down, make sure that you are ready to buy dark coin.

[TrueCryptonaire]

I think we should do something temporarily to their marketing scheme so that the price will not pump and it becomes more affordable for average Joes... What do you think?  

Who are you guys?

You, Spoetnik, ceti and Evan?  Why would you guys want to ruin your marketing scheme? It brings you bread on your table.

Because it is better that Dark coin is cheap so that we can afford to buy some before they pump it next time even higher. 

what if these price is cheap and dark coin is going to 0.1? better to buy know and don't regret later, because i was thinking like you when the past week dash was still at 0.03 now it's double, really regretting not buying more damn

i think before we buy dark coin, we need to learn something about the trend or the buy and sell position in the market so we can make right decision and we can take profit. the price of dark is now too high, maybe we need to wait for a while so we can see the price is getting down and if this is getting down, make sure that you are ready to buy dark coin.

Exactly this.
Waiting now is the key to make money with Dark coin, if the trolls are successful they can bring Dark coin to the bottom faster and we can enter when the sentiment is hostile.

[N-rG]

https://www.facebook.com/DashPay/

https://www.facebook.com/monerocurrency/

DASH has about ~5 times more users than Monero has

[rangedriver]

https://www.facebook.com/DashPay/

https://www.facebook.com/monerocurrency/

DASH has about ~5 times more users than Monero has

Actually it's well understood that the Monero community is about 4-5 times bigger than Dash when all of the community metrics are added together. This is a weakness that Dash has well understood for many years and is the reason so much money is plumbed into Dash's PR designed to give the impression of having a social base similar to that of Monero.

By metrics I'm principally talking about IRC, Reddit, combined forum and BCT stats, all of which have specific relevance in respect of number of users online at any point in time..... and all of which greatly eclipse Dash.

In the old days Monero was bigger than Dash by about 2.5 times. These days, it's around 5.8 on average. The only reason Dash has seen an upsurge in online users of late is because of the sustained pump attempt.

The actual social fundamentals are pretty clear however. Where Monero has a successful tripartite community comprising cryptographers, political activists and speculators, the Dash community in its core is basically just a skeleton position of speculators. There is no credible cryptographic component in Dash, nor is there a credible political component, nor is there even a voluntary or industrial ethos.

It's worth remembering also that Facebook in particular is an iconic antagonist to many people in the scene, which is why you wouldn't expect to see significant Facebook / Monero unity.

[N-rG]

Its a myth that money is moving from one to another alt coin. Dont expect XMR climbing while DASH will crash.

Monero has in my eyes still a marketing problem. I said that already month before. But it will have therefor organic growth which is good. i know already people who have real world usage of XMR anonymity (no drugs, more political things)

In my eyes, DASH is super artificial in rising. No fundamentals. But ride the wave. I am already out and very happy that I didnt lose any money with some shorts lately (i even made profit )

The lending rates are still super expensive. Buy anyway, IF Dash will go to 250 i'll short it significantly (if lending rates are lower)

Otherwise i just ignore it. It is too fishy for me atm. I prefer ETH shorts atm. Super cheap and even more a bubble like dash (for me)

[iCEBREAKER]

Ok let me tell ya what I think is going to happen.

What sharks are going to buy / exchange for this DASH scam coins ? You guessed it -> BTC / ETH / XMR -> that is why all crypto are going UP right now.

You got that one right.

Digital trash being dumped.  Good crypto being pumped.



Anyone got a cap of today's maximum carnage?   

[iCEBREAKER]

Death cross for Dash, made and now confirmed under heavy volume:



The market is rejecting the instamined "snake oil" scamcoin.

Good night DigitaltrASH.   

[iCEBREAKER]

As I predicted, Dash's decline continues as Litecoin activates segwit & Lightning.

[iCEBREAKER]

Remember when I told the DashHoles their market cap would flow into XMR at ever accelerating rates, but they preferred to recite Cargo Cult doctrine rather than listen to facts and logic?   






 

[iCEBREAKER]

Look at the posts on this page.  Do you see the trend, where Dash keeps falling to new lows against Monero?

Where is the Evolution whitepaper?  Where is Dash's segwit roadmap?  Are DashHoles really stupid enough to believe their vaporware is better than Lightning on Litecoin?

It's adorable to watch the Evan's Gate cult get worked up over their horribly slow 2.5 minute blocks while Monero has 2 min blocks, not to mention that ETC and DGB have 15 second blocks.   

[iCEBREAKER]

Look at the posts on this page.  Do you see the trend, where Dash keeps falling to new lows against Monero?

Where is the Evolution whitepaper?  Where is Dash's segwit roadmap?  Are DashHoles really stupid enough to believe their vaporware is better than Lightning on Litecoin?

It's adorable to watch the Evan's Gate cult get worked up over their horribly slow 2.5 minute blocks while Monero has 2 min blocks, not to mention that ETC and DGB have 15 second blocks.   

Update:

Still no Evolution whitepaper.  Still no accurate Dash roadmap.  Evolution is now at least 1 year behind its original schedule.  Still no segwit on Dash, thus zero chance of Lightning.

Due to stunning incompetence and overall neglect, Dash block times have only now been discovered to be 2.625 mintues rather than the 2.5 minutes advertised.  DashHoles have no idea why.

The market is punishing Dash for funding multiple ATM/debit scams, stupid shit like Acrobatics Man and rain panchos, and incompetent devs who can't publish more than one DIP every two years.

Monero is starting to fire on all cylinders.  Multisig and fee-reducing range proofs are now on testnet.  Mobile wallets are popping up everywhere and marketplace adoption is increasing.

Here is the result; expect Dash's downward trend to continue and accelerate as it has now broken through the long-term support at 2.4 XMR/DASH.



#REKT

Dash 

[iCEBREAKER]

Update:

Dash fees are 5 times higher than Bitcoin's (50 cents to $1 vs 10 to 20 cents).

Still no Evolution whitepaper.  Still no accurate Dash roadmap.  Evolution is now at least 1 year 2 years behind its original schedule.  Still no segwit on Dash, thus zero chance of Lightning.

Even worse for Dash is that Amanda B Johnson has quit her paidshill role and pivoting to focusing on the wider world of non-instamined crypto.

That's why Dash's long term resistance vs XMR is collapsing to new multi-year lows:

Evan better call Otoh so his big, rich pump group whale buddies can save it with another bailout! 

Dash

[iCEBREAKER]

Update:

With the release of Bitcoin Core v16, Dash is now 4 major releases behind the state-of-the-art market leader in cryptocurrency.  Dash will never be able to catch up with Bitcoin Core, much less surpass them.  That's what happens when a project prioritizes marketing over technology.

Dash's tx fees are 7x higher than BCash's.  So Dash also failed in its goal to live up to the 'digital cash' branding it spent a ton of money and time promoting to uninterested nocoiners.

That's why Amanda quit her increasingly futile job as a Dash PaidShill InfoBabe, after waiting several years for some kind of concrete progress in Evolution development but only having her hopes and dreams dashed over and over again.

Now we see Dash testing critical YTD support levels at 2:1 XMR.  Once that psychologically important round number floor is breached, expect the stampede of Masternode owners rushing for the exists to get very ugly and bloody.

[iCEBREAKER]

Now we see Dash testing critical YTD support levels at 2:1 XMR.  Once that psychologically important round number floor is breached, expect the stampede of Masternode owners rushing for the exists to get very ugly and bloody.

      



#TheFluffening *intensifies*

[fia_naila]

These token is always compete each other from 2014 and always giving their community good return. Both coin also have a good developer anf good community behind them. I dont think these coin going to die. Both is good coin and for everyone who want to invest. Put you money on both coin not only one of them.

[iCEBREAKER]

Look at the posts on this page.  Do you see the trend, where Dash keeps falling to new lows against Monero?

Where is the Evolution whitepaper?  Where is Dash's segwit roadmap?  Are DashHoles really stupid enough to believe their vaporware is better than Lightning on Litecoin?

Dash testing critical YTD support levels at 2:1 XMR.  Once that psychologically important round number floor is breached, expect the stampede of Masternode owners rushing for the exists to get very ugly and bloody.

As was foretold, so shall it be:

40+ masternodes being liquidated via shapeshift
https://www.reddit.com/r/DashUncensored/comments/8rvw8q/40_masternodes_being_liquidated_via_shapeshift/



Anyone so foolish as to be long Dash has gotten their teeth broken.  Don't listen to pumper shills like qwizzie.  Look at the terrible fundamentals of Dash, then divest and short accordingly.

There is only so much support for Dash at 1.8.  When those bids are gone, it's a free fall down to zero.

[nutildah]

Anyone so foolish as to be long Dash has gotten their teeth broken.  Don't listen to pumper shills like qwizzie.  Look at the terrible fundamentals of Dash, then divest and short accordingly.

There is only so much support for Dash at 1.8.  When those bids are gone, it's a free fall down to zero.

Actually I've made higher percentage profits on Dash than any other coin. How's that "collapse" working out for you? 

I don't understand the point of your crusade. Monero has completely fallen to the wayside compared to Dash.

And this comment will be deleted in 3... 2... 1...

[iCEBREAKER]

There is only so much support for Dash at 1.8.  When those bids are gone, it's a free fall down to zero.

6 days later, we find the old support at 1.8 is the new resistance:




Looking at the daily candle, we find a beautiful "Long Upper Shadow" red hammer, poised to smash Dash down to new lows vs Monero:




Where is Dash's roadmap?  Where is the supposed ETA for the ETA for the roadmap update that was supposed to announced by the end of June?

Where is Evan Duffield?  Has be abandoned Dash entirely?

If nobody fills Evan's thought leadership role, Dash will continue to crash vs coins like Monero, which are run by real cypherpunks who actually write and ship working code.

Firing Chuck Williams is a good sign Dash Inc is going to stop the endless bike-shedding of Evolution's UI, but it's not enough to stop the downward trend.  More heads need to roll, starting at the top with Ryan Taylor.

[iCEBREAKER]

And It Was Written

There is only so much support for Dash at 1.8.  When those bids are gone, it's a free fall down to zero.

Looking at the daily candle, we find a beautiful "Long Upper Shadow" red hammer, poised to smash Dash down to new lows vs Monero:

Where is Dash's roadmap?  Where is the supposed ETA for the ETA for the roadmap update that was supposed to announced by the end of June?

Where is Evan Duffield?  Has be abandoned Dash entirely?

If nobody fills Evan's thought leadership role, Dash will continue to crash vs coins like Monero, which are run by real cypherpunks who actually write and ship working code.

Firing Chuck Williams is a good sign Dash Inc is going to stop the endless bike-shedding of Evolution's UI, but it's not enough to stop the downward trend.  More heads need to roll, starting at the top with Ryan Taylor.

As predicted, Dash continue to bleed out under the incompetent reign of Ryan Taylor and his for-profit Dash Corp Group Inc entity.

Sad to see the DashHoles so angry they are lashing out at the critics who warned them this would happen, but were ignored or called "trolls" as thanks for their insights.

Dash 

[iCEBREAKER]

xpost:

There is only so much support for Dash at 1.8.  When those bids are gone, it's a free fall down to zero.

If nobody fills Evan's thought leadership role, Dash will continue to crash vs coins like Monero, which are run by real cypherpunks who actually write and ship working code.

Firing Chuck Williams is a good sign Dash Inc is going to stop the endless bike-shedding of Evolution's UI, but it's not enough to stop the downward trend.  More heads need to roll, starting at the top with Ryan Taylor.

As predicted, Dash continue to bleed out under the incompetent reign of Ryan Taylor and his for-profit Dash Corp Group Inc entity.

Sad to see the DashHoles so angry they are lashing out at the critics who warned them this would happen, but were ignored or called "trolls" as thanks for their insights.

Dash 

Another new low for Dash versus XMR.  The market looked at the pixelated screengrab Dash calls a roadmap and had a good laugh because there is no way Evolution is really going to ship this year.

Bitmain/Antpool is currently holding the Dash network hostage and will not let it activate the upgrade to v12.3, so getting v12.4 *and* v13 out and activated before 2019 is just more wishful thinking from the DashHole cargo cult.

Most bearish of all is the refusal to demote Ryan Taylor for his years of incompetent leadership, during which Dash lost its #3 position and fell all the way down to #15.

The MNOs have sunk such huge sums into their Masternodes they succumb to the temptation to protect the very incompetent managers and devs who have created the mess that caused Evolution to be years overdue.

https://www.dashcentral.org/p/demote-ryan-taylor-to-an-advisory-role

If ^this^ doesn't pass, expect fresh new lows, perhaps even 1:1 Dash:XMR or lower! 

[iCEBREAKER]

Today Dash is being treated like the shitcoin that it is. 




But this is only an extension of a very long trend for Dash collapsing vs Monero.

[Hueristic]

You gotta give it credit though, its a slow, albeit inevitable death.

[newb4now]

You gotta give it credit though, its a slow, albeit inevitable death.

Its funny to see the "news" coming from a failing centralized (high level of "masternode" control from instamine beneficiaries) blockchain whose only innovation is cutting/pasting features from Bitcoin (PrivateSend from CoinJoin, Chainlocks from Checkpoints etc, etc) and rebranding them

https://www.coindesk.com/despite-ceo-claims-dash-isnt-really-the-most-used-crypto-in-venezuela

The inevitable death is nearing. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

current DASH/XMR ratio is 1.16 and falling

[Febo]

You gotta give it credit though, its a slow, albeit inevitable death.

Its funny to see the "news" coming from a failing centralized (high level of "masternode" control from instamine beneficiaries) blockchain whose only innovation is cutting/pasting features from Bitcoin (PrivateSend from CoinJoin, Chainlocks from Checkpoints etc, etc) and rebranding them

https://www.coindesk.com/despite-ceo-claims-dash-isnt-really-the-most-used-crypto-in-venezuela

The inevitable death is nearing. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

current DASH/XMR ratio is 1.16 and falling

Only DASH that is used in Venezuela is the one they wash their laundry with. It seemed to me that was wide known. No need for silly articles about it. 

[Hueristic]

You gotta give it credit though, its a slow, albeit inevitable death.

Its funny to see the "news" coming from a failing centralized (high level of "masternode" control from instamine beneficiaries) blockchain whose only innovation is cutting/pasting features from Bitcoin (PrivateSend from CoinJoin, Chainlocks from Checkpoints etc, etc) and rebranding them

https://www.coindesk.com/despite-ceo-claims-dash-isnt-really-the-most-used-crypto-in-venezuela

The inevitable death is nearing. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

current DASH/XMR ratio is 1.16 and falling

https://www.investing.com/crypto/dash/dash-xmr

Inevitable.

[leea-1334]

Actually,,, I always thought it was quite disappointing to see Dash being valued so much higher than Monero when everybody who uses the coin knows the huge difference between them. And a bit disappointing for me to see until today Dash is still valued higher than Monero.

But,,, we see Monero staying strong without shilling and Dash no matter how much is promoted is falling. This is the proof;)

[Hueristic]

Actually,,, I always thought it was quite disappointing to see Dash being valued so much higher than Monero when everybody who uses the coin knows the huge difference between them. And a bit disappointing for me to see until today Dash is still valued higher than Monero.

But,,, we see Monero staying strong without shilling and Dash no matter how much is promoted is falling. This is the proof;)

They had the massive ninja mine to throw around to P&D the coin up and that is the only reason they succeeded for so long. they had to liquidate 500 Masternodes for the pump a few years ago that skyrocketed them.

[newb4now]

Today Dash is being treated like the shitcoin that it is. 




But this is only an extension of a very long trend for Dash collapsing vs Monero.

DASH/XMR ratio is now at 1.1. The direction remains clear.

Another metric I find interesting is the relative activity of r/dashpay compared to r/dashuncensored.  Heavy handed moderation of the former subreddit is gradually causing those asking critical questions to the later.

[qwizzie]

Enjoy this DASH/XMR pair while it last, Poloniex is delisting it because of low volume. Truth is this pair died ages ago, i'm not sure why people
keep referring to it.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/crypto-exchange-poloniex-to-delist-23-trading-pairs-due-to-low-volume

Must feel like taking away a toy from a baby for all these Monero trolls in here, i just hope they dont end up all crying  

By the way, the uncensored Dash Reddit thread is not actually a Dash thread at all, its just a fud thread created by
a fanatic Monero troll named dnale0r.

dnale0r is the one and only real life troll i actually know (he tried to disrupt a Dash presentation once in The Netherlands in 2015 which i attended, we all got
a pretty good laugh out of it ). dnale0r is the sole reason why you never want to become a full troll, everrr.

iCEBREAKER (OP of this thread) : i hope you are not still mad on rango for delisting all your Dash masternodes on Dash Central ? All that manual voting on all
your Dash masternodes must have sucked. Also i assume you are over that polling proposal about having Ryan Taylor step down in his role of CEO over
Dash Core Group ? Miscalculated the Dash masternode support for your polling proposal there slightly huh    

As they say : Carry on
 

[codecaffeinecode]

Enjoy this DASH/XMR pair while it last, Poloniex is delisting it because of low volume. Truth is this pair died ages ago, i'm not sure why people
keep referring to it.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/crypto-exchange-poloniex-to-delist-23-trading-pairs-due-to-low-volume

Must feel like taking away a toy from a baby for all these Monero trolls in here, i just hope they dont end up all crying  

By the way, the uncensored Dash Reddit thread is not actually a Dash thread at all, its just a fud thread created by
a fanatic Monero troll named dnale0r.

dnale0r is the one and only real life troll i actually know (he tried to disrupt a Dash presentation once in The Netherlands in 2015 which i attended, we all got a pretty good laugh out of it ).  
dnale0r is the sole reason why you never want to become a full troll, everrr.

iCEBREAKER (OP of this thread) : i hope you are not still mad on rango for delisting all your Dash masternodes on Dash Central ? All that manual voting on all your Dash masternodes must have sucked.
Also i assume you are over that polling proposal about having Ryan Taylor step down in his role of CEO over Dash Core Group ? Miscalculated the Dash masternode support for your polling proposal
there slightly huh    

As they say : Carry on
 

The "trolls" you mention are actually some of the most important people that DASH community members should be listening to. Escape your echo chamber and you will realize that the people most harmful to DASH are actually "leaders" such as Basilpop
 on r/dashpay that regularly ban topics with constructive criticism that has the potential to make DASH stronger. r/dashuncensored mods dnale0r and dashcrypto are saints in comparison and welcome free speech.

DASH is not perfect. Neither is XMR.  The difference is that Monero welcomes constructive criticism (see skepticism Sunday topic on r/Monero. The DASH commmunity instead stunts its growth with labeling tough questions as trolling and uses heavy censorship. You just provided an example of this censorship (of ICEBREAKER. someone vastly more knowledgeable than you)
>iCEBREAKER (OP of this thread) : i hope you are not still mad on rango for delisting all your Dash masternodes on Dash Central

You can continue to call people trolls and see Monero become more valuable compared to DASH.  Eventually you will run out of uneducated users to scam with exaggerated claims about the DASH network and HYIP masternode potential (without giving credit to the project from which DASH and most of its features were forked).

Or you can learn from those you call "trolls" and make an effort to improve DASH with regard to existing privacy, centralization and security weaknesses.

Based on the last 5 years, Im guessing that DASH "community members" (largely directed by masternode owners and moderation of dissenting opinion on key communication platforms) will continue to lose ground to competitors with communities that are more humble. selfless, educated and hard working.

[leea-1334]

Wow I had no idea this level of trollery existed between Dash and Monero. I know a lot of Monero people see Dash in not very positive tones as a rival coin but I had no idea there was this level of rivalry!

I am a Monero guy, simply for first mover and having places to use it. I honestly cannot say much else for why I choose it. May the best coin be the best, that is all.

[qwizzie]

Wow I had no idea this level of trollery existed between Dash and Monero. I know a lot of Monero people see Dash in not very positive tones as a rival coin but I had no idea there was this level of rivalry!

I am a Monero guy, simply for first mover and having places to use it. I honestly cannot say much else for why I choose it. May the best coin be the best, that is all.

Its not just some rivalry, some members from the Monero community seem to really hate Dash to the extend that they are willing to do almost anything or say almost
anything to put Dash in a bad spotlight. That includes creating Reddit threads like https://www.reddit.com/r/DashUncensored/ and then later try to pass it off as a
genuine uncensored place for Dash fans to post, when it fact its nothing more then a Dash hate thread. Or claiming Dash was premined, when it was not
(Dash has an instamine history, not a premine history).

This whole DASH Collapsing  Monero UP thread is way beyond any rivalry and is also an example of a Dash hate thread. I have nothing against Monero as cryptocurrency,
but some members of its community (not you of course) are really showing their true nature in threads like these.

Can you imagine the hate someone must feel for Dash, that such person feel pressured to buy into Dash, setup Dash masternodes and then try (and fail) to influence
Dash governance model through his masternodes ? and then hypocritically continue to post negative posts about Dash in this thread and other threads ?
(i'm talking about iCEBREAKER here).

iCEBREAKER and dnale0r are just prime examples of trolls that went full troll in a not very pleasant way. One tried to influence Dash from within and failed,
the other tried to influence Dash reputation in real life and failed.

[LucyLovesCrypto]

Monero market cap is now almost twice that of DASH
https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/marketcap-dash-xmr.html

DASH/XMR ratio = 1.046

There is still time for DASH holders to jump ship before the ratio declines further and DASH slowly becomes obsolete.

"Evolution" user names wont help. Its merely a rip off of the openalias system Monero implemented years ago
https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/openalias

What happened to iCEBREAKER anyway? I miss reading his posts.

[qwizzie]

Must kinda suck for these monero trolls to have this moderated thread with an OP that used to delete any
pro Dash posts, only to have this OP go AWOL... making it effectively a non-moderated thread.

Remember my previous post about certain members of the Monero community saying or doing almost anything
to put Dash in a bad spotlight ?

See post above, where Dash Evolution (a fundamental update of Dash, in the making some 4 years now, not released yet on testnet
and only possible because of Dash two-tiered network consisting of miners & masternodes), is somehow codewise related to Monero 

Trying to discredit a project development that you dont fully understand or comprehend is never a very smart thing to do.
It makes you look like an amateur, someone to not take serious, someone to put on ignore (which i just did).

[qwizzie]

Dash Partners with IQ CashNow Adding 1,000+ New Dash-Accepting Merchants



Dash has partnered with cryptocurrency ATM and merchant solution provider IQ CashNow, adding an additional over 1,000 Dash-accepting merchants as well
as integration into over 250 additional ATMs, growing Dash merchant adoption significantly.

Read more - https://dashnews.org/dash-partners-with-iq-cashnow-adding-1000-new-dash-accepting-merchants/

Credits : NibiruHybrid
Source : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg52368807#msg52368807

Dash UP with regards to Dash integration and expansion, i wonder what this will do to the (longterm) Dash price, lets speculate  
-qwiz

[qwizzie]

Dash UP with regards to number of active masternodes, approaching new ATH
Monero DOWN with regards to full nodes (from well over 2000 to 1576 acc MoneroHash .. ouch)



Dash Circulating Supply stats

Dash Circulating Supply (acc coinmarketcap)     :  9.024.651 Dash
Dash Current Combined Masternode Collateral* : -4.966.000 Dash
* 4966 active masternodes x 1000 Dash
 
Actual Dash Circulating Supply available for circulation on exchanges / markets :  4.058.651 Dash

Rising demand versus restricted supply (specially in comparison with other cryptoprojects),
i wonder what this will do to the (longterm) Dash price, lets speculate  

[FaucetKING]

I do believe that Monero is going big. I do remember when it was on 1 usd price range and i totally believed that it was going to be big and it did.
For the future, monero needs more expand and more peoples awareness. The price issues are no sense.  I believe that monero will even reach 1000 usd price range in the upcoming 5 years

[qwizzie]

Dash UP with regards to number of transactions, but to be honest i think Dash has always been UP like that.
And with regards to that huge spike in Dash transactions, dont worry it was just a little (but very successfull) stress test.



I'm starting to really really like this thread, i guess i will be posting a lot in here. Specially with all the Dash developments going on and how each
single one of them gives direct cause to Dash price speculation  

Dont worry Icey, i will keep your speculation thread alive ... you can count on me.

To be honest, i'm already bored with this thread 

[Hueristic]

Dash Partners with IQ CashNow Adding 1,000+ New Dash-Accepting Merchants

LOL, https://www.iqcashnow.com/?lang=en works for Monero as well. Duh

[qwizzie]

Dash Partners with IQ CashNow Adding 1,000+ New Dash-Accepting Merchants

LOL, https://www.iqcashnow.com/?lang=en works for Monero as well. Duh

My mistake, i did not see Monero's logo down there. I was only noticing Dash logo up there next to Litecoin.
Now we (Dash) just need to switch places with Litecoin and we should be on the right spot.

On a sidenote : is there an update on Monero's security vulnerabilities ?  Is there still one Monero security vulnerability up and running (as in not fixed) ?

Link : https://finance.yahoo.com/news/monero-patches-security-vulnerabilities-worst-190344413.html

Monero has revealed nine security vulnerabilities, two of which were assessed as “critical.” Eight of the bugs have already been fixed,
The Next Web's Hard Fork writes.

I'm just curious as i never got a confirmation that the last one got fixed too, actually i got no information about that last one whatsoever......

Most of the vulnerabilities seem to have been fixed in June as the reports coincide with the release of Monero version 0.14.1.0 in June.
One, still mostly classified at the moment, awaits a fix.

Interesting, for Monero's sake i hope people are not exploiting the hack out of that security vulnerability. Could be difficult to notice i guess,
with Monero's closed blockchain and all. Article was from 2 months ago by the way and refers to v0.14.1.0 as latest Monero update......

[Hueristic]

Fud about vulnerabilities that were found by Monero paid Audit and were patched with no damage to the chain.

The concerned troll aye? Nope Monero blockchain is not to be trusted, sell now. Maybe you should use Zcash I hear you cannot tell how many coins were created with their minting bug. I understand how Dashes Ninja mine wouldn't matter to you since you are in on the masternode scam.

[qwizzie]

Fud about vulnerabilities that were found by Monero paid Audit and were patched with no damage to the chain.

The concerned troll aye? Nope Monero blockchain is not to be trusted, sell now. Maybe you should use Zcash I hear you cannot tell how many coins were created with their minting bug. I understand how Dashes Ninja mine wouldn't matter to you since you are in on the masternode scam.

Lets make my question more understandable : are all Monero's security vulnerabilities fixed by now or not ?

Most of the vulnerabilities seem to have been fixed in June as the reports coincide with the release of Monero version 0.14.1.0 in June.
One, still mostly classified at the moment, awaits a fix.

a simple yes or no would be enough...... thank you.

Edit : on the off chance that the answer is no, can you please explain why its taking more then three months to issue a hotfix for a security vulnerability ?

[consideritdone]

DASH just surged today by 10% https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/dash

[qwizzie]

Fud about vulnerabilities that were found by Monero paid Audit and were patched with no damage to the chain.

The concerned troll aye? Nope Monero blockchain is not to be trusted, sell now. Maybe you should use Zcash I hear you cannot tell how many coins were created with their minting bug. I understand how Dashes Ninja mine wouldn't matter to you since you are in on the masternode scam.

Lets make my question more understandable : are all Monero's security vulnerabilities fixed by now or not ?

Most of the vulnerabilities seem to have been fixed in June as the reports coincide with the release of Monero version 0.14.1.0 in June.
One, still mostly classified at the moment, awaits a fix.

a simple yes or no would be enough...... thank you.

Edit : on the off chance that the answer is no, can you please explain why its taking more then two months to issue a hotfix for a security vulnerability ?

I just checked Monero's github (https://github.com/monero-project/monero/releases) and latest version is indeed still v.0.14.1.0
Which means i dont need an answer to my question if the classified security vulnerability has been fixed or not.
Clearly it has not.

Security vulnerabilities are like ticking timebombs, just waiting to explode. Because so much time has passed by without Monero Core Developers
actually fixing this last remaining security vulnerability and the fact that it became public knowledge awhile back that Monero has a not-yet-fixed
security vulnerability the chance of active exploitation becomes higher the more time passes. At this point chances are that this security vulnerability
is getting actively exploited in its closed blockchain (closed blockchain in this case means this exploit is invisible to the general public).

At this point i would start asking questions to the Monero developers about this security vulnerability :

* is it fixable ? Or is the security vulnerability of such nature that its beyond the technical capabilities of the Monero Core Developers ?
* why keep it classified for this long ? keeping something classified this long smells like a cover-up
* why is there no feedback about this specific security vulnerability ? a simple status-update from time to time to its community ?

To conclude, cryptoprojects are evaluated on their ability to fix bugs and security vulnerabilities in a timely manner. Those cryptoprojects
that fail in that regard are making it much harder for themselfes on topics like integration and expansion.

[Hueristic]

They all look resolved to me.

https://hackerone.com/monero/hacktivity?order_direction=DESC&order_field=popular&filter=type%3Aall


Hey why don't you link me dashes masternode code audits?

[qwizzie]

They all look resolved to me.

https://hackerone.com/monero/hacktivity?order_direction=DESC&order_field=popular&filter=type%3Aall

This particular security vulnerability has been labeled :

* mostly classified (which in this case means zero details)
* not fixed with v.0.14.1.0

Since Monero is still on v0.14.1.0 (three months later), this classified security vulnerability is definetely not yet fixed.
I'm not even sure in which category this particular classified security vulnerability falls, is it one of those two critical security vulnerabilities that the article mentions ?

Link : https://finance.yahoo.com/news/monero-patches-security-vulnerabilities-worst-190344413.html

Monero has revealed nine security vulnerabilities, two of which were assessed as “critical.” Eight of the bugs have already been fixed

Most of the vulnerabilities seem to have been fixed in June as the reports coincide with the release of Monero version 0.14.1.0 in June.
One, still mostly classified at the moment, awaits a fix.

I'm surprised a Monero classified security vulnerability can linger on this long (three months), without anyone from Monero's community raising any questions about it.

[mathgal23]

Its hard to have a technical argument with someone that quotes news articles instead of code. See the Hackerone and or GitHub sources that show the issues being resolved:

https://hackerone.com/monero/hacktivity?order_direction=DESC&order_field=popular&filter=type%3Aall
https://github.com/monero-project/monero/commit/1d5e8f461de0a04891e5e18b0f50e9cf2cf534e1

Qwizzie obviously cant read code, or he would be asking DASH devs to open source ALL DASH evolution work and decentralize central points of failure such as the DASH Spork system

https://github.com/dashpay/dash/blob/master/src/spork.h

They all look resolved to me.

https://hackerone.com/monero/hacktivity?order_direction=DESC&order_field=popular&filter=type%3Aall

This particular security vulnerability has been labeled :

* mostly classified (which in this case means zero details)
* not fixed with v.0.14.1.0

Since Monero is still on v0.14.1.0 (three months later), this classified security vulnerability is definetely not yet fixed.
I'm not even sure in which category this particular classified security vulnerability falls, is it one of those two critical security vulnerabilities that the article mentions ?

Link : https://finance.yahoo.com/news/monero-patches-security-vulnerabilities-worst-190344413.html

Monero has revealed nine security vulnerabilities, two of which were assessed as “critical.” Eight of the bugs have already been fixed

Most of the vulnerabilities seem to have been fixed in June as the reports coincide with the release of Monero version 0.14.1.0 in June.
One, still mostly classified at the moment, awaits a fix.

I'm surprised a Monero classified security vulnerability can linger on this long (three months), without anyone from Monero's community raising any questions about it.

[qwizzie]

Its hard to have a technical argument with someone that quotes news articles instead of code. See the Hackerone and or GitHub sources that show the issues being resolved:

https://hackerone.com/monero/hacktivity?order_direction=DESC&order_field=popular&filter=type%3Aall
https://github.com/monero-project/monero/commit/1d5e8f461de0a04891e5e18b0f50e9cf2cf534e1

I'm not talking about the issues that have been resolved with the june update (v0.14.1.0), i'm talking
about the issue that did not get resolved in that update (the last remaining security vulnerability that got
classified and not included into the june update)

There is zero information about this security vulnerability and since Monero is still at v0.14.1.0
(some three months now) this security vulnerability (whatever it is) cant have been resolved
as updates go through github (which is still at v0.14.1.0)

Also think about the meaning of classifying a security vulnerability, this basicly means no public information will be released
about this specific security vulnerability untill it gets resolved, which means it will not be on any public lists or github as to not
give any hackers insight into that security vulnerability. I'm mostly surprised that this one has been classified for three months
now with no end in sight.

Maybe its wise to first gather more information from the Monero Core Developers about this last remaining classified
security vulnerability, so that it can be identified in a future update as indeed having been resolved.
Reading that this vulnerability is mostly classified (not completely classified), there should be some details available that can be shared
with the public for identification purpose (without giving hackers any usefull information).

Edit : i think i found a reference to this classified not-yet-resolved security vulnerability

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/07/04/monero-cryptocurrency-security-flaw-bug-hackerone-disclosure-hack/


Reference : keejef (the one with the blanked out description, due to its classified status i assume).
Closed does not mean resolved, as you can see with the other security vulnerabilities that indeed got resolved and disclosed (the other eight).

As the article mentions only two of the nine security vulnerabilities were of critical status, it does not seem this classified one
is of critical status (two others are according above picture). Which means the classified one could range from low to high status.

To conclude, a quotation from referenced article :

The bulk of these bugs was submitted roughly four months ago. Eight vulnerabilities have since been patched,
while one remains almost entirely undisclosed. The reports appear to be timed to coincide with the release of
Monero version 0.14.1.0 in June.

Update : i did some further digging and it looks like the classified security vulnerability from keejef has only recentely (28 days ago)
been properly disclosed and merged with Monero's github master. Since it was only an update to the readme.md it does not require a new
software version, which explains why the Monero master on github is still at v0.14.1.0

Whether this disclosure through an update in the readme.md is enough to inform the Monero users about this specific high severity labeled
security vulnerability, i will leave for the readers to decide.

https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/5701

readme.md

### Blockchain-based
Certain blockchain "features" can be considered "bugs" if misused correctly. Consequently, please consider the following:

- When receiving monero, be aware that it may be locked for an arbitrary time if the sender elected to, preventing you from spending that
  monero until the lock time expires. You may want to hold off acting upon such a transaction until the unlock time lapses. To get a sense of
  that time, you can consider the remaining blocktime until unlock as seen in the `show_transfers` command.

That is if the keejef reference on above picture (the one thats blanked out), actually refers to : https://hackerone.com/reports/417515

It is just weird to see that Monero users can put a timelock on their transactions and thereby totally screw the receiver, by making that
transaction effectively unspendable. I can see two types of attack situations : used against exchanges, used against unaware Monero users.

The way that this security vulnerability got resolved is by pointing the responsebility directly towards the users and exchanges instead of
changing how the timelock of transactions is handled in the Monero code. Time will tell if that is the right approach.

[Hueristic]

No, that was disclosed 2 more like 11 months ago, it was reopened and resolved 2 months ago. I can see how this stuff can become confusing.

monero
Locked_Transfer functional burning

    By keejef to Monero
    Resolved
    High

disclosed 2 months ago

And was resolved.

This will also affect all Cryptonote coins with locked_transfer and exchanges that use show_transfers

https://hackerone.com/reports/417515

Initially it was almost a year ago reported and not deemed a bug, here is fp's comment on it.

fluffypony posted a comment.
Oct 3rd (11 months ago)

Hi - I'll type something up and send it to the mailing list; the locktime stuff is pretty well-known as it affects Bitcoin-based cryptocurrencies as well. A key difference is that with Bitcoin the locktime doesn't let it enter a block until that height, whereas with Monero it goes into a block but can't be redeemed to that height. In both instances they are valid transactions that can be used to socially engineer someone if they're not paying attention.

Your probably confused as it got reopened so it could be marked as patched as another code change covered it as well.

    Referencing https://hackerone.com/reports/592094
    Referencing https://hackerone.com/reports/417515

anonimal closed the report and changed the status to Resolved.
Jul 3rd (2 months ago)

Hi again @keejef, this report has been more appropriately resolved in https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/5701. Thank you for the friendly report.

So your chasing ghosts.


But keep trying, i'm sure you are scaring some N00bs into buying your premined scamcoin Dash.

[qwizzie]

So your chasing ghosts.

Am i chasing ghosts though ? And has it actually been resolved ? keejef's comment was first marked as "Informative" but essentially not a bug.
Then it was deemed as valuable enough information that needed to be put in a readme.md on Github, which was merged into
Monero's master 29 days ago. Merging something into a readme.md on Github is of course not the same as actually putting out a
code fix to this locktime vulnerability. It just means that you hope people read that readme.md and behave correctly and hope that exchanges
pay attention to the email that was sent to them (i call this shifting responsebility to users and exchanges), it however does nothing against
that locktime vulnerability.

Let me repeat that locktime vulnerability according Monero's own readme.md on Github :

### Blockchain-based
Certain blockchain "features" can be considered "bugs" if misused correctly. Consequently, please consider the following:

- When receiving monero, be aware that it may be locked for an arbitrary time if the sender elected to, preventing you from spending that
  monero until the lock time expires. You may want to hold off acting upon such a transaction until the unlock time lapses. To get a sense of
  that time, you can consider the remaining blocktime until unlock as seen in the `show_transfers` command.

The problem with this is that every single Monero transaction needs to be thoroughly checked on suspicious locktime activity by its
receivers, which directly undermines Monero's trustless transaction capability. Why not remove/change this locktime or put a hardcap on it ?
(to be automatically unlocked after x number of blocks). Or change it to how Bitcoin handles it ?

A key difference is that with Bitcoin the locktime doesn't let it enter a block until that height, whereas with Monero it goes into a
block but can't be redeemed to that height.

 
On second thought maybe its better that Monero keeps this vulnerability in its code, makes it that much more easy for competing
cryptoprojects to point this out... yeah, lets forget about this whole thing.

There is indeed really no need to change anything, i'm sure users will all read that readme.md on Github and behave perfectly correct
and exchanges will ofcourse be more then happy to check each and every Monero transaction on this locktime vulnerability.

Sorry for the off topic route here, i promise from now on it will all be about price, price and price.

[Hueristic]

So your chasing ghosts.

Am i chasing ghosts though ? And has it actually been resolved ? keejef's comment was first marked as "Informative" but essentially not a bug.
Then it was deemed as valuable enough information that needed to be put in a readme.md on Github, which was merged into
Monero's master 29 days ago. Merging something into a readme.md on Github is of course not the same as actually putting out a
code fix to this locktime vulnerability. It just means that you hope people read that readme.md and behave correctly and hope that exchanges
pay attention to the email that was sent to them (i call this shifting responsebility to users and exchanges), it however does nothing against
that locktime vulnerability.

Let me repeat that locktime vulnerability according Monero's own readme.md on Github :

### Blockchain-based
Certain blockchain "features" can be considered "bugs" if misused correctly. Consequently, please consider the following:

- When receiving monero, be aware that it may be locked for an arbitrary time if the sender elected to, preventing you from spending that
  monero until the lock time expires. You may want to hold off acting upon such a transaction until the unlock time lapses. To get a sense of
  that time, you can consider the remaining blocktime until unlock as seen in the `show_transfers` command.

The problem with this is that every single Monero transaction needs to be thoroughly checked on suspicious locktime activity by its
receivers, which directly undermines Monero's trustless transaction capability. Why not remove/change this locktime or put a hardcap on it ?
(to be automatically unlocked after x number of blocks). Or change it to how Bitcoin handles it ?

A key difference is that with Bitcoin the locktime doesn't let it enter a block until that height, whereas with Monero it goes into a
block but can't be redeemed to that height.

 
On second thought maybe its better that Monero keeps this vulnerability in its code, makes it that much more easy for competing
cryptoprojects to point this out... yeah, lets forget about this whole thing.

There is indeed really no need to change anything, i'm sure users will all read that readme.md on Github and behave perfectly correct
and exchanges will ofcourse be more then happy to check each and every Monero transaction on this locktime vulnerability.

Sorry for the off topic route here, i promise from now on it will all be about price, price and price.

Obviously your reading comprehension is not your strong point so I will ELI5 it for you..

Bug reported not deemed worthy of patch due to not actually being a bug.

Patch for something else comes out that changes code so the original complaint of "locktime vulnerability" is no longer even possible for Morons to be effected.

Team reactivates initial report in order to close it and marked as fixed for informative purposes.

I know that is tough for you to grasp as Dash doesn't even bother with code reviews or documenting attack vectors but this is what a serious project does. Mayne Evan should take notes.


The amusing thing about this is the retarded shills like you trying to use this as if it's a conspiracy when it is absolutely non-existant as far as a bug and never was.

You really should stop as your just embarrassing yourself.

[qwizzie]

As promised lets forget about Monero's official Github readme.md, the one that specifically warns users how a certain blockchain "feature''  can be abused
as a bug if misused correctly (most hackers have a tendency to misuse things correctly by the way) for now and just focus on the price.

I made two 1W Poloniex charts, one for Dash and one for Monero. Poloniex is not mainly used
anymore by both cryptocurrencies, but has due to its early listing of both coins a longer history, which benefits longterm charts.  

Dash



Both the MACD and the RSI look promising, i suspect a new longterm uptrend is forming right now. Also notice how the MACD seems
to be showing weaker sell pressure over time.

Monero



Both the MACD and the RSI are showing bearish signs and i suspect a testing of the 0.0068 price range is not far off.
If that support breaks, there will be another huge downward correction. Which will bring the price more in line with its pre-pump 2017 position.

Here is a brainstormer : what if the whales intention is to bring all altcoins back to their pre-pump 2017 position, how would coinmarketcap then look like ?
And remember Dash already is at pre-pump 2017 position right now, as it was hit first and hardest.

[Hueristic]

And remember Dash already is at pre-pump 2017 position right now, as it was hit first and hardest.

Thats because that artificial pump was started with the liquidation of 500 masternodes and that shit is just not sustainable. But I'm sure the whale that did that got his pound of flesh from the mindless morons that don't research and thought it was organic growth. lol

Either way with institutional investment all alts are in a long winter but My money is on Monero holding the best and recovering first when the dust settles and when.



And Darkcoin as well. Lol

[qwizzie]

Is it me or is the Dash price wayyy UP lately ?  
I guess it pays to have a good reputation with regards to code development (no lingering security vulnerabilities
that intentionally remain not-fixed like with Monero), integrations and having a very active growing global community.
Makes integration with large exchanges, merchants and forming strategic partnerships that much more easy.

I wonder what the activation of the Dash pairs (Dash/USD and Dash/BTC) on Coinbase Pro on tuesday will further
do to its price. Now if i could only find a nice picture of a kangeroo eating popcorn..

And with regards to loosing 500 masternodes explaining the price decline, Dash is currently at 4963 active masternodes
and has an ATH of 4969, so i'm not sure where you got that data. Maybe that drop in number can be explained as
the result of updating our masternode network to the deterministic masternodes network, but that of course does
not mean 500 masternodes were sold. They just needed to update either their hardware or their software.
 
Its so easy to make wild accussations these days on the internet  

[rodel caling]

Is it me or is the Dash price wayyy UP lately ?  
I guess it pays to have a good reputation with regards to code development (no lingering security vulnerabilities
that intentionally remain not-fixed like with Monero), integrations and having a very active growing global community.
Makes integration with large exchanges, merchants and forming strategic partnerships that much more easy.

I wonder what the activation of the Dash pairs (Dash/USD and Dash/BTC) on Coinbase Pro on monday will further
do to its price. Now if i could only find a nice picture of a kangeroo eating popcorn..

Good news for DASH it's proven nothing steady the whells are circle sometimes we need to accept price up and down depends on the demands of each coins in the market but of course with the help of the team devs that is one of the reason coins will potentially to growth.

[qwizzie]

Is it me or is the Dash price wayyy UP lately ?  
I guess it pays to have a good reputation with regards to code development (no lingering security vulnerabilities
that intentionally remain not-fixed like with Monero), integrations and having a very active growing global community.
Makes integration with large exchanges, merchants and forming strategic partnerships that much more easy.

I wonder what the activation of the Dash pairs (Dash/USD and Dash/BTC) on Coinbase Pro on tuesday will further
do to its price. Now if i could only find a nice picture of a kangeroo eating popcorn..

And with regards to loosing 500 masternodes explaining the price decline, Dash is currently at 4963 active masternodes
and has an ATH of 4969, so i'm not sure where you got that data. Maybe that drop in number can be explained as
the result of updating our masternode network to the deterministic masternodes network, but that of course does
not mean 500 masternodes were sold. They just needed to update either their hardware or their software.
 
Its so easy to make wild accussations these days on the internet  

Good news for DASH it's proven nothing steady the whells are circle sometimes we need to accept price up and down depends on the demands of each coins in the market but of course with the help of the team devs that is one of the reason coins will potentially to growth.

Yep, i agree with you there buddy. Having a capable core development group / devs is a key factor.

[qwizzie]

One would think that after noticing this thread has no longer a Monero-controlled narrative, Monero 'fans' would find it in their own interest to stop bumping this thread with easily detectable and easily disprovable anti-Dash fud. Specially in a time that Dash is getting UP on a daily basis, with regards to price and integrations.

I guess some of them have not reached that insight yet.  

[Febo]

Is it me or is the Dash price wayyy UP lately ?  

One would think that after noticing this thread has no longer a Monero-controlled narrative, Monero 'fans' would find it in their own interest to stop bumping this thread with easily detectable and easily disprovable anti-Dash fud. Specially in a time that Dash is getting UP on a daily basis, with regards to price and integrations.

To me it seems that market is totally same as the title of this thread

 Man is fun to chit chat with people that imagine things and see them totally differently then everyone else. But not over 5 years. Then it gets boring. Trust me no one wants to argue with you or few minded like you. Just read what you wrote. "Monero-controlled narrative"   There is no one beside you and your friends that believes that a Crypto currency Monero so a code or mathematics is controlling DASH price and makes it worth less and less daily. Conversations ends totally pointless. Constant provocations and then crying when calling you out. Never accept the reality.  While on other hand no one really care about just another Bitcoin clone. There are 10000 of them.

[qwizzie]

Is it me or is the Dash price wayyy UP lately ?  

Just read what you wrote. "Monero-controlled narrative"  There is no one beside you and your friends that believes that a Crypto currency
Monero so a code or mathematics is controlling DASH price and makes it worth less and less daily.

Of course i dont believe that and i never posted anything that even remotely resembles that. When i mentioned the "Monero-controlled narrative"
i ment of course iCEBREAKER's history of deleting any pro Dash post in here. Nothing more and nothing less. I thought that was pretty obvious.
This means posts got pretty one-sided in this thread, untill he disappeared. Next time pls drink some coffee before commenting Febo, thanks.

Wow, look at all that Dash traded volume  

Lets compare Dash with Monero on a few key factors :

Dash UP :

- Higher Price
- Higher Volume
- Higher number of Transactions
- Higher number of Integrations
- Higher Project Development
- Higher Reputation
- Higher Hash Rate / Higher Network Strength
- Higher Protection against 51% attacks
- Higher Speed of its transactions / Higher Protection against double spending of its transactions


Monero UP :

- Higher Marketcap
- Higher number of Not-Fixed High Severity Security Vulnerabilities (Monero locktime issue, only addressed in a readme.md on Github and an email to exchanges)
- Higher number of Botnets / Malware / Hard forks (to prevent ASIC miners, while at the same time there is a growing realisation among even Monero developers
  that this is most likely unstoppable in the long term)
- Higher Supply issued (Monero 76,6% / Dash 51,36%) while both coins were pretty much launched around the same time (Dash a little bit earlier then Monero i think)

Also having Dash added to Coinbase Pro hardly indicates a collapsing of Dash (sorry Icey). Anyone thinking that Dash is about to collapse will be in for
a really brutal shock soon.  

Keep the bumps coming guys, this is great. Also i want to thank iCEBREAKER for changing this moderated thread into a non-moderated thread by his absence.
Us Dash fans really appreciate it.  👍

To conclude i want to congratz Monero with its transition from a trustless network (trustless means no need to place any trust into it) to a trusted network
(trusted in this case means Monero users have to trust their transactions are not locktime manipulated by the sender).
You dont see  cryptoprojects changing from trustless to trusted that often (its pretty rare actually).

[LucyLovesCrypto]

Lets hope the scammer down, competent development up trend continues in 2020!
DASH collapsing:

"Evolution" years behind

Evan jumping ship and shuttering "DASH Labs"

CEO Ryan discussing changing emission schedule and block rewards while ignoring the small number of DASH "devs" that have skills other than copy, paste and rebrand

Monero up:

RandomPoW a massive success increasing decentralization and bricking Bitmain (the same company that broke DASH's "ASIC resistance" and centralized DASH mining)

More volunteer devs joining the ecosystem with growing awareness at DEFCON, C3 and among Arch Linux users:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/cqegma/monero_village_defcon_2019_report/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/efuoxq/monero_at_the_36c3_chaos_communication_congress/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/eap47a/monero_is_now_available_in_the_arch_repositories/

[qwizzie]

Monero UP :

* Hacked official Monero website, including installed coin-stealing malware. No explanation has been given about this hack. Most likely inside job.

Link : https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/11/official-monero-website-is-hacked-to-deliver-currency-stealing-malware/

* Not-fixed high vulnerability Monero time-lock issue, an exploit where senders can timelock their transactions so receivers can not spend that transaction.

Link : https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/README.md



I am just glad Dash is not UP with those kind of security issues.




Maybe this is a good time to look at the number of transactions of both Dash and Monero network-wide and see who is UP there :



oh my  

[codecaffeinecode]

Do you think a fork would a DASH fork be helpful or harmful in stopping the collapse of DASH relative to its peers?

I would welcome a fork. I don't think the idea deserves the hysterical response given by some on here. The days of fork fear meaning doomsday for a project should be past us now. Bitcoin hasn't suffered as many feared, it has had numerous forks by now.


Everyone must acknowledge Ryan's proposal has a real (not imagined) risk that it could be wrong. I am sure Ryan himself would admit this possibility even if he thinks it remote
  

In the event of a fork

Ryans idea of altering block rewards can be tested in BOTH directions, sliding the scale towards more proof of work and in the 'main' fork more proof of stake as per the current proposal
ALL dash investors would receive both types of Dash. You lose nothing.
ALL masternode owners get to run masternodes on both forks. You gain masternodes
ALL dash investors get a chance to 'vote' by exchanging  one type for the other if they wish
THE market can decide where the value flows
Valuable information learned about crypto/masternode economics
Lots of publicity.

[codecaffeinecode]

DASH has performed better than most Proof of Stake coins over the years. Is moving slowly in that direction by reducing payments to the miners that secure the DASH network a mistake?  I understand the desire to stop the bleeding in terms of market value, but the truth is many other projects have done worse than DASH. Is making some masternode owners happy with a pay raise really worth the long term risk to network security? Chainlocks are not bulletproof as the recent stress test proved:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DashUncensored/comments/fjugrp/dashs_chainlocks_and_instantsend_were_just_taken/

So far Dash is managing to stay in the proof of work category of coins (although not holding a high enough ranking as it should have), this is quite remarkable considering how economically Dash already has large proof of stake component. We are just about getting away with it at the moment. But if we move further towards proof of stake, how long until we are valued as proof of stake ?

https://www.tradingview.com/x/9Slus40n/

[mathgal23]

I dont think the mining supply redistribution is aimed at improving long term sustainability. In my opinion it is more possible that Ryan Taylor and other DCG insiders are using this and promises of "DASH Platform (Evolution rebrand) soon" as an attempt to pump the price once more before selling their coins and quitting (to avoid being fired for years of poor performance after Evan Duffield left).

If you follow the DASH forums, it appears that community members have given up competing with Monero (privacy by default) long ago.  Currently the DASH community worried about other opt in (and rarely used) privacy projects like Zcash passing them in the MC rankings.  Decred with technically superior governance model will likely pass DASH in the MC rankings at some point.  As blockchain users become better educated, marketing based on feature copying/re-branding from DASH loses its appeal.  The pace of the DASH network collapse will only increase if the recent DCG proposal to reallocate rewards away from miners is successful.

[qwizzie]

Reddit DashUncensored is a Monero-initiated Reddit troll thread, designed to troll Dash.
It has been created by dnale0r ((https://www.reddit.com/user/dnale0r/), who is not only a known Monero fanatic but also a known troll. I know the troll part of him not only by this forum but also because
i met him once at the Bitcoin conference in 2015 in The Netherlands, where he was trying discredit Dash during a Dash presentation. Which means he is both a forum troll and a troll out there in the real world.  

Be aware of people referencing Reddit DashUncensored and be aware of the tone of discussions taking place there.
It is just a Reddit thread that Monero community members like to use to discredit Dash.
You will find few facts there, just a whole lot of Monero-driven opinions about Dash.