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Author Topic: Time to bust a myth. Paper wallets are less secure than normal encrypted wallets  (Read 12196 times)
inBitweTrust
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April 07, 2015, 08:50:59 AM
 #101

How about a "Idiot's guide to create secure Cold storage" ?

https://bitcoinarmory.com/tutorials/armory-advanced-features/offline-wallets/
https://bitcoinarmory.com/tutorials/armory-advanced-features/fragmented-backups/
https://bitcoinarmory.com/tutorials/armory-advanced-features/lockbox/create-lockbox/

... but more guides and different options are always welcomed.

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April 07, 2015, 10:00:08 AM
 #102

the point in the end should be to secure your desktop/laptop/device, it does not matter much which is less secure(and you are comparing a way where the wallet is encrypted and a way where it isn't...)

i did not even encrypted my wallet, and i never lost any btc due to thieves, because i have a secure desktop in primis, which is the most important thing

one thing you can do is dual boot(on separate hard disk, and remove the power from the Hdd with bitcoin everytime you boot with the other, this is secure at 100%, non-hackable)
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April 07, 2015, 03:08:00 PM
 #103

Screw a printer burn them to a CD.
inBitweTrust
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April 07, 2015, 03:31:34 PM
 #104

Screw a printer burn them to a CD.


Factory burned cd's and dvds are a completely different process than ones you burn at home.

Home burned CDs and DVDs are notoriously flaky and damage very easy. I lost huge amounts of data in the past because expensive archival quality dvds didn't last more than 1 year, let alone any cheap discs(which may be DOA or fail shortly after). It is a huge gamble with those items that depends upon the batch , brand, humidity and other environmental factors, ect...

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June 09, 2015, 08:08:30 PM
 #105

Why in the shits of shits of shits are you reconnecting the Harddrive you created it on back to the net.

F
A
I
L

on an epic level.. epic beyond epic.

The harddrive used to create the wallet from bitaddress.org should never EVER EVER EVER touch the web again after you have encrypted the paper wallet.


EVER NEVER EVER EVER EVER AGAIN! EVER AGAIN.


So do continue with the assumption the harddrive which was used to encrypt the paper wallet using bitaddress.org will never touch the web again.

How does one break the encryption?
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June 09, 2015, 08:09:52 PM
 #106

Screw a printer burn them to a CD.


Factory burned cd's and dvds are a completely different process than ones you burn at home.

Home burned CDs and DVDs are notoriously flaky and damage very easy. I lost huge amounts of data in the past because expensive archival quality dvds didn't last more than 1 year, let alone any cheap discs(which may be DOA or fail shortly after). It is a huge gamble with those items that depends upon the batch , brand, humidity and other environmental factors, ect...


I have them on 10 CD's.. 10 jump drives.. an external harddrive.. physically printed.

Encrypted with a +20 char pass..

Harddrive that was used to create them no longer exists and NEVER touched the web once.
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June 09, 2015, 08:24:24 PM
 #107

I have never had a problem with a paper wallet. Why is this fear-mongering starting now? I even created them on live pc. Maybe I am just lucky... idk...

no.
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June 09, 2015, 08:26:51 PM
 #108

I have never had a problem with a paper wallet. Why is this fear-mongering starting now? I even created them on live pc. Maybe I am just lucky... idk...

WHOA WHOA WHOA..

That is a bad plan man..

You haven't had an issue until BTC EXPLODES in value and you find out that is EXACTLY what the hackers were waiting for boom it's gone...

I would be very nervious about my bitcoins if they were created on a harddrive that was connected to the web at the time or ever reconnected to the web..


One thing is certian the gov has your private keys 100%, do you trust the NSA?
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June 10, 2015, 06:37:09 AM
 #109

One thing is certian the gov has your private keys 100%, do you trust the NSA?

Could you please justify this statement? Do you have an explanation on how/why or maybe a link to a research paper?
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June 10, 2015, 07:15:42 AM
 #110

One thing is certian the gov has your private keys 100%, do you trust the NSA?
I don't. I know they have even more that what it was revealed by that guy...

no.
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June 10, 2015, 07:47:02 AM
 #111

This is an interesting thread. Even though I was never really praising paper wallets as the ultimate method, I have been recommending it.
I've only tried this method once myself and it was really an inconvenience for me. OP thank you.
I'm pretty sure that in the future we are going to have better software for this as currently everything is still fresh.

I would recommend installing VMware on a HDD and encrypt and keep your wallet there. Just keep it disconnected if you're storing a lot of Bitcoins.


One thing is certian the gov has your private keys 100%, do you trust the NSA?
Could you please justify this statement? Do you have an explanation on how/why or maybe a link to a research paper?
No. He's saying that it is certain that the government has your private keys.
He's talking nonsense.

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June 10, 2015, 12:01:52 PM
 #112

As long as the wallet remains offline it will remain safe. So I don't think it should be a qstn of paper wallet or not.

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June 10, 2015, 12:32:40 PM
 #113

As long as the wallet remains offline it will remain safe. So I don't think it should be a qstn of paper wallet or not.
Have you even read anything that was written in the original post?
It seems like you have not.

If someone busts inside your house they'll see you have Bitcoins if they find the paperwallet, but on the other hand with an encrypted hidden file inside a USB they would never figure out that you are a owner of Bitcoins. This is a plus against paper wallets.
It doesn't have to be hidden nor on a USB. If you have a encrypted wallet on your PC with a good password it will be useless to them.

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June 10, 2015, 01:51:22 PM
 #114

How do I know..

Sweet mother of god have you guys ever read a news paper?


I find it quite hilarious everyone goes on about security yet slacks on security measures.. THEN long be hold once a week "HELP ALL MY COINS ARE GONE"..

Why are you being lazy on security........ I hear The Bank Of America will take care of security for you if you are to lazy.
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June 10, 2015, 04:56:22 PM
 #115

How do I know..
Sweet mother of god have you guys ever read a news paper?


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June 10, 2015, 05:08:56 PM
 #116

If someone busts inside your house they'll see you have Bitcoins if they find the paperwallet, but on the other hand with an encrypted hidden file inside a USB they would never figure out that you are a owner of Bitcoins. This is a plus against paper wallets.

Most dumb ass thieves/robbers wouldn't have a clue what bitcoin is let alone know how to put a private key into an online wallet to swipe the paper one.
When somebody robs a house they normally look for cash, electronics etc, I doubt they'll be looking inside an old book or a filing cabinet for a piece of paper with a combination of random numbers and letters on.


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spazzdla
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June 10, 2015, 05:27:16 PM
 #117

How do I know..
Sweet mother of god have you guys ever read a news paper?



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June 10, 2015, 06:38:04 PM
 #118

How does an air-gapped machine contract malware?  It can sign transactions with zero Internet (or LAN for that matter) connectivity. Additionally, M of N paper wallets mitigate physical theft.

OP has missed the entire point of a paper wallet. 
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June 10, 2015, 07:45:59 PM
 #119

I have never had a problem with a paper wallet. Why is this fear-mongering starting now? I even created them on live pc. Maybe I am just lucky... idk...
The first post in this thread actually did a pretty good job of explaining why paper wallets are more susceptible to theft/loss. Both are going to be fairly secure while more can go wrong with paper wallets, primarily physical theft of the paper wallet.

The to;dr version is that both encrypted wallets and paper wallets have certain vulnerabilities. Encrypted wallets have a subset of vulnerabilities and paper wallets have the same subset of vulnerabilities and then a greater subset of vulnerabilities.

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June 11, 2015, 04:27:46 PM
 #120

How does an air-gapped machine contract malware?  It can sign transactions with zero Internet (or LAN for that matter) connectivity. Additionally, M of N paper wallets mitigate physical theft.

OP has missed the entire point of a paper wallet. 

Many ways. Read up on Stuxnet. The most likely scenario would be via USB sticks when you are transferring files (which many people do with airgapped machines even though it's a big no-no), but you could also be infected if your airgapped PC's OS or other software was tampered with in some way when you were installing it, such as malware on the computer you burned the boot CD/USB tampering with the image. These are pretty advanced attacks, but they are certainly not so difficult to execute and not unheard of and thy will probably happen to some Bitcoiners eventually so people should be aware of them so that they can defend themselves if they deem it necessary.

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