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Author Topic: Where to go?  (Read 5559 times)
speeder
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May 27, 2011, 12:33:20 PM
 #1

I want to leave Brazil, for somewhere else better.

But I have no idea of where to go...

My issue is not even paying taxes, I do not mind paying taxes when they are properly used, my issue is:

First, Brazil as republic is a failure (the best times in Brazil were during Monarchy, and during Dictatorships, all "republic" times had major cheating to get people in office)
Second, Brazil taxes go nowhere at all, and you have to pay your taxes AND pay your private services (ie: health, security, or even road construction is paid privately)
Third, Brazil government is kinda resilent, guns are de facto banned, any small protest is quickly quashed with police force (the last one was about marijuana legalization, it ended with cops attacking even bystanders and reporters), and the population is so individualistic that they actually do not care to revolt or protest in massive numbers.
Fourth, I dislike brazillian people (if you are in the internet for long, you will notice why).
Fifth, Brazil is too dangerous, when it is a dictatorship, people "disappear", and when not in dictatorship, crime rate skyrocket.




So, someone know a nice place to move in and become citizen? (thus, it must be a place where becoming a citizen is pratical...)

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May 27, 2011, 01:12:51 PM
 #2

The moon.

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speeder
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May 27, 2011, 02:28:29 PM
 #3

The moon does not fall into the category "nice"

You know, it kinda lacks... air.

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May 27, 2011, 02:50:47 PM
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I too want to leave (from the USA though), I've been thinking about one of the northern European countries. Yes, it's socialized for the most part, but they are also nice places to live and seem to have weathered the recent economic shitstorm fairly well (I'm thinking Sweden in particular).
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May 27, 2011, 03:15:14 PM
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I too want to leave (from the USA though), I've been thinking about one of the northern European countries. Yes, it's socialized for the most part, but they are also nice places to live and seem to have weathered the recent economic shitstorm fairly well (I'm thinking Sweden in particular).

Some people kinda invited me to go to Finland.

But I am yet to figure how hard is to change citizenship, and how much they welcome mediterran caucasians (my predominant ethny)

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May 27, 2011, 03:27:32 PM
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The moon does not fall into the category "nice"

You know, it kinda lacks... air.

air is overrated.

There is a common pattern with countries getting wealthier: They get tighter and tighter with immigration, xenophobia spreads in the culture, taxes and government spending are on the rise, its people stray away from politics and the meaning of liberty is gradually lost on them.

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But I am yet to figure how hard is to change citizenship, and how much they welcome mediterran caucasians (my predominant ethny)
Finland has been going full xenophobic lately.

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May 27, 2011, 04:30:00 PM
 #7

Uruguay and Chile both seem like nice places to live.

Use my Trade Hill referral code: TH-R11519

Check out bitcoinity.org and Ripple.

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mewantsbitcoins
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May 27, 2011, 04:36:13 PM
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I think time is quickly approaching to finally chip in and buy an Island  Grin
speeder
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May 27, 2011, 04:37:48 PM
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Sometimes I wish I was born viking :/

Nordic culture is so much more nicer (except for maybe the excessive xenophobia bit). Or japanese culture, or some other cultures.


Brazil culture only matter short-term gains, and mostly material gains, people do not care about honor, justice, honesty... If they can screw you, it is 70% of chance that they will screw you.

If you compare folk music of Brazil and most european countries, you get:

Brazil most popular rock bands theme: Sex. Europe: Dragons, heroes, etc...
Brazil most popular folk music: Betrayed men, and sex. Europe: Virtues and past history
Brazil most popular dance hall music: Only drums, talk solely about sex, money and crime (praising it... and stuff like rape, murder, etc...). Europe: Bleeding edge music, always pushing instruments forward.
Brazil most popular erudite music: Clone of European erudite music.


:/

In fact, several of the best brazillian musical groups, are brazillian only in the sense that the members were born here, because most of them are popular in other countries (usually europe or japan, some in the US), and after a time they switch to sing in other languages than portuguese (usually english, sometimes german, swedish, japanese, french...) as their non-Brazil popularity rise.


But the worst part of being born in Brazil, is being a nationless individual (using the classical sense for the word nation), whites hate me because I have black nose, blacks hate me because I am white, and my culture is alien to everyone around me, leading to a sort of cultural isolation, yet everywhere else in the world I suspect I will be alien too, thus making the entire world alien, no place to call home.

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May 27, 2011, 04:46:26 PM
 #10

I think time is quickly approaching to finally chip in and buy an Island  Grin
...and get aced by Tonga.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Minerva

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May 27, 2011, 05:03:29 PM
 #11

Italy blew up a island nation too.

But getting ass-kicked by Tonga is...

Like losing Eurovision to some unknown country, maybe, azerbaijan.

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May 27, 2011, 05:29:04 PM
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(the best times in Brazil were during Monarchy, and during Dictatorships,

You mean the best times were when most of the population was enslaved (monarchy), or when government authoritarianism and central planning would make the current socialistic government look like a libertarian dream?

Geez man, not that things are nice now, but they were way worse on those times.

Now, about your question, I don't know if I can answer it, since I don't know you well enough. I don't think you really want to go to northern Europe... it's frozen!! But less cold parts of Europe may be interesting if you want to run away from the violence. I live on the south of France, and the winter here is not that harsh. Ordinary violence barely exists, and when something happens, is normally a theft done hidden, never a quick kidnapping as standard in Brazil.

Now, if you want to make money, probably Europe is not the best shot. How far are you willing to go? Have you looked Singapore? Their government is somehow authoritarian on behavior standards, but not as much as Dubai for instance, and in Singapore the economy is impressive. I read somewhere that 16% of its population are dollar-millionaires.

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May 27, 2011, 05:42:19 PM
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You sound like a liberal.

You should realize that your urge to flee your country is likely caused by a genetic defect that predisposes you to novelty-seeking behavior.

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speeder
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May 27, 2011, 07:01:05 PM
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(the best times in Brazil were during Monarchy, and during Dictatorships,

You mean the best times were when most of the population was enslaved (monarchy), or when government authoritarianism and central planning would make the current socialistic government look like a libertarian dream?

Geez man, not that things are nice now, but they were way worse on those times.

Now, about your question, I don't know if I can answer it, since I don't know you well enough. I don't think you really want to go to northern Europe... it's frozen!! But less cold parts of Europe may be interesting if you want to run away from the violence. I live on the south of France, and the winter here is not that harsh. Ordinary violence barely exists, and when something happens, is normally a theft done hidden, never a quick kidnapping as standard in Brazil.

Now, if you want to make money, probably Europe is not the best shot. How far are you willing to go? Have you looked Singapore? Their government is somehow authoritarian on behavior standards, but not as much as Dubai for instance, and in Singapore the economy is impressive. I read somewhere that 16% of its population are dollar-millionaires.

Monarquists (I know some) would cringe at that.

Brazil late monarchy was actually one of the most interesting governments ever, the emperor was so much for freedom, that he willingly let the republicans take power, being the only monarch ever to get deposed with more than 70% of population approval.


But what I mean was: During those times, the government were usually more efficient, and actually did good things (unfortunately, specially during the recent dictatorships, lots of crap things too... I know lots of people that still miss friends and family that "dissapeared" during the last dictatorship, just because they knew russian or were bystanders near a protest...)

The first republic (that was obviously fake, with several presidents of the same party in a row getting voted in with 99% of the votes) was problematic, to the point that a dictator was needed to fix it. And that dictator did a so good job, that after getting deposed, people willingly elected him again.

And the current republic plainly suck, most of the power is concentrated in the hands of PMDB, and the only president that went against them, got impeached (I am not defending that guy, he IS a crook, but other presidents did much worst shit and PMDB protected them, as they handed named offices to PMDB members and do not insisted in strong anti-corruption laws).



To the guy that says I am seeking for novelty: I am seeking actually for security, peace and (somewhat) honest people. In Brazil you have to constantly watch your back, it just suck.

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May 27, 2011, 10:43:46 PM
 #15

Why not Spain or Italy ?
Serbia, Horvatia, Bolgaria are not bad, for you ethnos type. They are not ask many questions too.

We will  meet in not-so-distant future.
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May 28, 2011, 02:03:22 AM
 #16

hardly there any place/country where you can "become" citizen :/
except those, where problems, you listed, even worser, such as African coutnries and some Pacific countries, where corrupted officials can make you "citizen" for nominal cash.
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May 28, 2011, 03:22:43 AM
 #17

Time to seastead.
malditonuke
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May 28, 2011, 05:41:29 AM
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I want to leave Brazil, for somewhere else better.

If you have the funds, then travel and see for yourself.  No one is going to be able to tell you where you would rather live.  Every region has its pros and cons, and every group of neighbors has their idiosyncrasies.

There are assholes everywhere.  The only thing left to do is figure out which group of assholes you can stand to be around.  Personally, I find the idiots I've grown up with to be much less tolerable than idiots abroad.  There's something relaxing about seeing the same old bullshit from a new perspective. 
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May 28, 2011, 10:30:52 AM
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Monarquists (I know some) would cringe at that.

Brazil late monarchy was actually one of the most interesting governments ever, the emperor was so much for freedom,

Yeah, he was so much for freedom he kept the majority of the population as slaves... Brazil was one of the last countries to abolish slavery, and the monarchy has its fault on it.

But what I mean was: During those times, the government were usually more efficient,

No, it was not. Take the military dictatorship for ex. They were control freaks, central planning at its ultimate level. Most of Brazil huge inefficient state companies were created during their time. The "economic miracle" was nothing more than lots of government spending fueled by debt - which Brazilians have to carry until today - and money printing, which basically destroyed the country economy during the 80s with the hyperinflation it caused. Brazil income discrepancies are a fruit of the hyperinflation: http://www.mises.org.br/Article.aspx?id=313

And that dictator did a so good job, that after getting deposed, people willingly elected him again.

Do you mean Vargas, that fascist criminal who cursed Brazil with... the CLT!?

And the current republic plainly suck, most of the power is concentrated in the hands of PMDB,

Yeah, they suck... but at least those corrupt parasites kind of protected the country from PT. Imagine if PT had absolute majority...

I am not defending that guy, he IS a crook, but other presidents did much worst shit and PMDB protected them, as they handed named offices to PMDB members and do not insisted in strong anti-corruption laws.

I agree with that. Actually most of the late 20 years economic improvements the country has lived are due to the changes promoted during the period of that crook, plus the end of hyperinflation of course.

To the guy that says I am seeking for novelty: I am seeking actually for security, peace and (somewhat) honest people.

You'll find this in France, I can say for experience. But there may be places that suit you better. The guy that answered that you have to see for yourself is correct.

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May 28, 2011, 12:24:09 PM
 #20


From personal experience, before you move, i would suggest you search within yourself, and make sure that you are not trying to move away from yourself. It's impossible to run away from yourself, of course...

In my experience, a change in one's personal life can make a big difference in the way one perceives the surrounding environment and people...

Imho, another thing that makes a difference is the urbanization of the place where one lives. Obviously, urban environments, especially in developing countries, stress people, and make them act like rats in an overcrowded cage. The most troublesome members of society also tend to gravitate there.

I've found that moving to a provincial city can be helpful in avoiding such stressed environments, and high concentrations of unpleasant people. As in any other large country, i suspect that people in Brazil act differently toward each other in places distant from the overpopulated centers.

Perhaps, you may find it useful to investigate life in countries where wealthy people from developed countries often go to retire. On your side of the globe, Panama and Costa Rica come to mind... If you want a peaceful, cordial place, i would follow the international retirees. As the recent Tenerife incident shows, it still doesn't prevent one from getting her head cut off, but chances seem favorable there...

In my experience though, the main question to answer first is still, "Am i trying to move away from myself?" It's difficult to answer, and what you wish to find is difficult...

As a lifetime mover that i have also been, i wish you luck! Smiley

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