Where to go?

[kloinko1n]

I would surely stay on the southern hemisphere as all most of the nuclear weapons are located on and pointing at locations on the northern hemisphere. The nice thing about the southern hemisphere (apart from the fact that there is that beautiful country Brazil! Que saudades!) is that northern and southern hemisphere are separated by the equator, which acts as a screen between northern and southern air currents.
You must have gotten the point already: in case of a nuclear war (and the USA has no more money for a conventional one, so nuclear is the cheapest next option) you should be much safer on the southern, than on the northern hemisphere.

As soon as you see all kinds of royalty and Goldman Sachs CEOs going on 'holiday' somewhere far south, then you'll know it's the time

Anyway, if I were you (or any Brazilian citizen) I wouldn't leave Brazil if I had a decent income there...

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[speeder]

Brazil is good if you are absurdly rich, the level of corruption makes life way easier to rich people...

But I am not absurdly rich...




Also, to @caveden blaming slavery on the Brazillian imperial family is rather naive, the reasons Brazil was the last one to abolish slavery is more related to the ruralists (that are the current MDB, by the way...). If you read texts written by the imperial family, they wanted a end to slavery, but every time they attempted it, they had problems with the ruralists, in the end they just decided to "screw it" and declared end of slavery anyway. That triggered the ruralists to support the republicans, leading to the emperor resignation (yes, the emperor resigned... he was republican himself... he even felt betrayed after he got exiled, he believed he would be able to live a normal retired civilian life in Brazil).

I am not saying monarchy was perfect, far from it, but we do have a significant propaganda against monarchy, without people taking their time to actually study it.

The same applies to Vargas... I dislike many things that he did, including the CLT, but you have to think about why he did the things he did, the CLT itself solved many problems when it was made, the reason CLT is now a curse, is because the left (PT and leftwards from that I mean...) refuses to let it to be modernized, with the problems that CLT was intended to fix do not existing anymore, it became problematic (for example, the huge fine for firing someone, was invented because Vargas foreseen that the CLT would trigger mass firings... indeed, the fine worked, and made people retain the workers, but now the huge fine is only another reason to avoid hiring people, causing unemployment).



Also I do not think the military government was the best one ever, some democratically elected presidents did much better, but in many aspects they are better than the current government (that is soon going to be more strict than the military... already noticed how the gun laws keep being tightened and how the cops this month beat-up some protesters, and that to make a protest now you need judicial permission? It makes no sense that you have to ask judicial permission to protest...)



@imanikin

I do not want to move away from myself, I want to move closer to like-minded people.

[kloinko1n]

@speeder : I thought the 'fine' was some kind of contribution to the retirement of the workers, as in my (very limited) knowledge participation in a retirement fund is not obligatory and seldom practiced. So instead of the employer constantly (i.e. monthly) putting money in a retirement fund, the employee gets it with his dismissal.

And re slavery, it even continued after the so called abolishment, and with happy participation of the Dutch who kept sending ships full of 'galinhas' to Bahia (or was is Ceara?), as I have understood it. The Dutch were the last to stop trading slaves. So much for christian mentality...

[Vandroiy]

I have the same problem.

All the big countries involve different kinds of insanity, but there is none that got rid of all of them.

I'm currently in Germany, but it appears the country has decided to "embrace" the future in turtle mode. I've thought about many others, but each has some problems. Currently, I consider:

Liechtenstein
Japan
USA
Canada
Switzerland

But that's because I can speak German and am learning Japanese -- someone limited to English might find some choices less suitable.

Liechtenstein is epic, but SO SMALL. No matter how great the setup, it's totally endangered by anything big making a move. Japan has the most awesome feeling to live at, but also has a huge debt and people who love rules, no matter how silly. And so on. There's just no obvious choice.

[caveden]

Also, to @caveden blaming slavery on the Brazillian imperial family is rather naive, the reasons Brazil was the last one to abolish slavery is more related to the ruralists (that are the current MDB, by the way...). If you read texts written by the imperial family, they wanted a end to slavery, but every time they attempted it, they had problems with the ruralists, in the end they just decided to "screw it" and declared end of slavery anyway. That triggered the ruralists to support the republicans, leading to the emperor resignation (yes, the emperor resigned... he was republican himself... he even felt betrayed after he got exiled, he believed he would be able to live a normal retired civilian life in Brazil).

OK, I grant you that, you may be right. I've never read such texts from the imperial family.

The same applies to Vargas... I dislike many things that he did, including the CLT, but you have to think about why he did the things he did, the CLT itself solved many problems when it was made

But not this. Labor laws do no good, and the stronger they are, the more damage they do. Labor is a contract between parties, nobody else has anything to do with how these parties do it, pretty much like marriage actually.
The CLT was always a problem, it's a quite authoritarian set of labor laws.

Also I do not think the military government was the best one ever, some democratically elected presidents did much better, but in many aspects they are better than the current government (that is soon going to be more strict than the military... already noticed how the gun laws keep being tightened and how the cops this month beat-up some protesters, and that to make a protest now you need judicial permission? It makes no sense that you have to ask judicial permission to protest...)

That's a pessimist view, but you might be right. I just hope it doesn't get to that point.... if it gets, well, I am screwed! I've already criticized government so much out on the open of the internet, that I would probably go to jail the day I step in a Brazil "more strict than the military [dictatorship]".

[speeder]

The CLT was some emergencial laws to fix the economy, they DID fixed the economy at that time, but now broke everything


CLT for example with the 13 salary, increased spending in the end of the year (when everyone hoarded, because of the taxes that the government asks payment on january), and several of other CLT measures was to make people risk more, the problem at that time was massive hoarding, the CLT made people stop hoarding, and the fine for firing someone, intended to make all the employed people remain employed. It worked, at that time, it really fixed the economy... Unfortunately, Vargas planned to revoke the laws after some years, but he got removed from government first, and the laws stuck.


Maybe it was not the best solution possible for the problems, but it was a clever one anyway.


But I am anti-CLT myself too, I work selling products actually (I am software architect... I sell the architecture, not my services... although I work within my client building, he pays for my product, instead of renting my work, even if the end result is still a stable monthly payment).

[Jaime Frontero]

i've lived on four continents, and learned a very valuable thing about doing so.

it doesn't matter where you are - you make your own life.

from a security standpoint, the best place to live is the place where you have the best and most instinctive grasp of "the rules".  (i.e.; the confluence of those legal, social and ethical constraints which make up any large entity like a country)

as a matter of pure practicality, this almost always means the country of your birth.  you will do better and stay safer.

of course there are exceptions.  north korea comes to mind.

but for the most part...

[speeder]

Jaime I really doubt that I would stay safe where I live...

In my neighborhood people being killed is so common we do not even care anymore. Here, the lastest news told by the daily women gossip over walls is:

"Hey, do you know the lastest person that died?"

And even where I work, inside a fortified city with guards and cameras everywhere, two coworkers still got kidnapped and taken to a slum, where his kidnappers almost entered in a firefight with the drug lords (the coworkers, that survived the incident, told us that the drug lords got pissed with people making robberies on their turf, and threatened to shoot down the kidnappers and their victims)







Anyway, I returned to the topic, because I`ve heard of Singapore, seemly very low taxes, easy entry, declared as the freest economy of the world... the only thing that bother people is their fake republic government (in the last elections for example, the candidates of the opposition parties got declared "invalid" and the ruling party won again, by default, and that same party is winning since the 50s...)

So, what you people think of Singapore?

[caveden]

Not being a democracy by itself is not a problem. It seems things in Singapore work better than most places in the world.
The only bad thing I heard is that they have some draconian laws regarding behaviors... like, throwing garbage on the street may put you in jail. Drugs, prostitution etc are severely punished and so on.

[speeder]

Not being a democracy by itself is not a problem. It seems things in Singapore work better than most places in the world.
The only bad thing I heard is that they have some draconian laws regarding behaviors... like, throwing garbage on the street may put you in jail. Drugs, prostitution etc are severely punished and so on.

As long they do not intrude into personal private lives (ie: what you do at home with your family), I am quite fine with that, I dislike all those things anyway...

[Jaime Frontero]

Jaime I really doubt that I would stay safe where I live...

In my neighborhood people being killed is so common we do not even care anymore. Here, the lastest news told by the daily women gossip over walls is:

"Hey, do you know the lastest person that died?"

And even where I work, inside a fortified city with guards and cameras everywhere, two coworkers still got kidnapped and taken to a slum, where his kidnappers almost entered in a firefight with the drug lords (the coworkers, that survived the incident, told us that the drug lords got pissed with people making robberies on their turf, and threatened to shoot down the kidnappers and their victims)







Anyway, I returned to the topic, because I`ve heard of Singapore, seemly very low taxes, easy entry, declared as the freest economy of the world... the only thing that bother people is their fake republic government (in the last elections for example, the candidates of the opposition parties got declared "invalid" and the ruling party won again, by default, and that same party is winning since the 50s...)

So, what you people think of Singapore?

it sounds like yes - it's probably a good place to leave.  i hate violent places.

what do i think of singapore?  in a way, i hate places like that even worse.  i've been there, and i've never been able to erase the impression that it's like living in a large ant-colony.  it's basically a pure oligarchy.  people are whipped ('caned') for littering, and a hundred other infractions.  if your car breaks down on certain highways, a helicopter comes and lifts it away, then drops it destructively away from traffic: you are charged heavily for the favor.

and of course, one is very heavily surveilled.  that twisted wreck of a car was required (as are all vehicles) to have a tracking chip in it - and if it isn't picked up and taken to a junk yard within a very few hours, you will be charged further.

singapore is a very... efficient... place.  or - from a different point of view - disneyland for the rich, with about zero social mobility.

if you have the money and don't mind living behind walls, without intercourse with that part of humanity which may be even slightly different, or less wealthy that you are, then perhaps it is for you.  i could never live like that.

[speeder]

I understand what you are saying.

And it resembles the city where I work... (although the city is not wealthy yet to lift cars with helicopers, they probably would if possible).

It is not much different from my current life (my house is walled and I do not talk with neighbors... the single time I walked on the street to buy coca-cola on a nearby bar, some people asked if I was foreigner...), except safer (And with no crackheads on my backyard... yes, that happened to me once, people hiding on my backyard to use heavy drugs).

Only, that I am not wealthy :/ (and if I remain here I will never be... although my salary is very high for the standards here, it is half of what it is paid in other countries for the same job).

[kidgorgeous]

Heres a plan:

1. Acquire island (anyone selling an island for bitcoin? I hear greece is hard up for some money these days)
2. Set up a technate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_Incorporated
3. Make bitcoin legal tender of formed technate (bitcoin is in many ways an ideal currency for a technocracy, atleast ideologically)
4. Invite bitcoiners/techie/hacker types to live on said island. Create the first technology oriented society.

I'll quit rambling now.

[Jaime Frontero]

Heres a plan:

1. Acquire island (anyone selling an island for bitcoin? I hear greece is hard up for some money these days)
2. Set up a technate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_Incorporated
3. Make bitcoin legal tender of formed technate (bitcoin is in many ways an ideal currency for a technocracy, atleast ideologically)
4. Invite bitcoiners/techie/hacker types to live on said island. Create the first technology oriented society.

I'll quit rambling now.

then get Hari Seldon to create psychohistory.

PROFIT!!!

[Daniel91]

I want to leave Brazil, for somewhere else better.

But I have no idea of where to go...

My issue is not even paying taxes, I do not mind paying taxes when they are properly used, my issue is:

First, Brazil as republic is a failure (the best times in Brazil were during Monarchy, and during Dictatorships, all "republic" times had major cheating to get people in office)
Second, Brazil taxes go nowhere at all, and you have to pay your taxes AND pay your private services (ie: health, security, or even road construction is paid privately)
Third, Brazil government is kinda resilent, guns are de facto banned, any small protest is quickly quashed with police force (the last one was about marijuana legalization, it ended with cops attacking even bystanders and reporters), and the population is so individualistic that they actually do not care to revolt or protest in massive numbers.
Fourth, I dislike brazillian people (if you are in the internet for long, you will notice why).
Fifth, Brazil is too dangerous, when it is a dictatorship, people "disappear", and when not in dictatorship, crime rate skyrocket.




So, someone know a nice place to move in and become citizen? (thus, it must be a place where becoming a citizen is pratical...)

You are sharing here only negative things about your country.
I'm sure there are also a lot of positive things about your country, people, nature etc.
The problems you talk about exist in other countries, not just Brazil.
So, do you really think that anything will change if you leave from Brazil?
I advise you to think again and to focus instead of complaining and regret on positive things and what you can do for yourself and others.
 

[r1s2g3]

You are sharing here only negative things about your country.
I'm sure there are also a lot of positive things about your country, people, nature etc.

First , this is very old topic.
Second, telling the truth is not equivalent to spreading the negativity. I think Brazil economic climate make any honest individual depressed.

[playbtcgame]

A proud citizen and you are now thinking of leaving your country? I suggest you have to develop the passion for your country and just love where you are now.

[Artemis3]

I want to leave Brazil, for somewhere else better.

But I have no idea of where to go...

My issue is not even paying taxes, I do not mind paying taxes when they are properly used, my issue is:

First, Brazil as republic is a failure (the best times in Brazil were during Monarchy, and during Dictatorships, all "republic" times had major cheating to get people in office)
Second, Brazil taxes go nowhere at all, and you have to pay your taxes AND pay your private services (ie: health, security, or even road construction is paid privately)
Third, Brazil government is kinda resilent, guns are de facto banned, any small protest is quickly quashed with police force (the last one was about marijuana legalization, it ended with cops attacking even bystanders and reporters), and the population is so individualistic that they actually do not care to revolt or protest in massive numbers.
Fourth, I dislike brazillian people (if you are in the internet for long, you will notice why).
Fifth, Brazil is too dangerous, when it is a dictatorship, people "disappear", and when not in dictatorship, crime rate skyrocket.

So, someone know a nice place to move in and become citizen? (thus, it must be a place where becoming a citizen is pratical...)

You think that's bad? Come here, cross the border to the north (preferably when OUR police/guards are not shooting people bringing humanitarian aid)...

I do know a place in the Caribbean where you can buy citizenship, even with bitcoin, for a mere 200k USD or ₿ equivalent: Antigua and Barbuda, that citizenship would net you Caricom access and you could live work in any of the member countries, some of which also get extra benefits from the UK... You would live in the tropics, and there is a lot of reconstruction work to do when the seasonal hurricanes destroy everything again...

Other than that, there is a very cold winter place in northern Europe that will let you enter to live and work without the working visa, but unless you are already hired, have a place to stay and can demonstrate enough income for living expenses, you can't stay: Svalbard, Norway. Some people even became Norwegian citizens after living a decade or so there... And your Viking dream would actually come true, if you can survive those harsh polar winters (mostly indoor life).

[kotajikikox]

Where to go? Well I want to go to canada or paris.the reason is to work.why I want there it is because some of my relatives are there and they saying its good to work in canada.not too much population.and also they say you can earn such money as long as you are a hard working person.

[TheCoinGrabber]

I didn't even noticed this was from 2011 but I sincerely hoped things has gotten better for OP. It's not easy to migrate AND gain citizenship or at least residency.

Finland has been going full xenophobic lately.

Well, I don't blame them. After all those things flooded into Europe, they probably realized they really don't make enough to support an Achmed with 4 wives that each have 3 spawnlings. Or you know, maybe they heard of Captain Sweden.