[ANN] [PPC] PPCoin Released! - First Long-Term Energy-Efficient Crypto-Currency

[Impaler]

Question:  Are the hash-rates for PPC reported on vircurex.com/ (3.3 TH/s) correct?  It would seem that this is just a calculation of the amount of hashing necessary to get 10 minute PoW blocks at present difficulty, but because few blocks are PoW the actual rate is significantly lower?  What if any hash-rate numbers do PPC developers trust?

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[TheSeven]

Question:  Are the hash-rates for PPC reported on vircurex.com/ (3.3 TH/s) correct?  It would seem that this is just a calculation of the amount of hashing necessary to get 10 minute PoW blocks at present difficulty, but because few blocks are PoW the actual rate is significantly lower?  What if any hash-rate numbers do PPC developers trust?

The average PoW hash rate throughout the last ~3 days is a ~565GH/s.
(Yes, I just calculated that by hand, I really need to build a tool for that.)

[Luckybit]

and how about freicoin.. does frc offer anything as the 'spendable' type of alt.?


edit:  also, i have plenty of coinage avail in my ppc client for minting. but i have yet to see any listed as 'Stake'

In response to your first question about FRC, my opinion is that the demurrage concept that forces the spending of Freicoin is poorly planned.  This assumes you have places to spend it.  The economic theory behind it is that if you force the spending of a currency you increase the money multiplier, thus spurring economic activity.  Without places to spend your FRC you just have a currency that shrinks.  I think it's interesting... and doomed.

Since when did people have to be encouraged to spend money? People should be encouraged to invest, and save but not spend.

[mhps]

You should run ppcoind all the time, but shouldn't move around any funds if you want to mine proof of stake.

I'll assume that your balance consists of ~50 mined blocks with ~400 ppcoins each, and that you have mined them at a mostly constant rate.
...
Sunny, please correct me if I'm wrong...

Thanks. This is FAQ or wiki material.

[kong2029]

Question:  Are the hash-rates for PPC reported on vircurex.com/ (3.3 TH/s) correct?  It would seem that this is just a calculation of the amount of hashing necessary to get 10 minute PoW blocks at present difficulty, but because few blocks are PoW the actual rate is significantly lower?  What if any hash-rate numbers do PPC developers trust?

The average PoW hash rate throughout the last ~3 days is a ~565GH/s.
(Yes, I just calculated that by hand, I really need to build a tool for that.)

7, could you please explain how you arrived at that figure? 

[kong2029]

and how about freicoin.. does frc offer anything as the 'spendable' type of alt.?


edit:  also, i have plenty of coinage avail in my ppc client for minting. but i have yet to see any listed as 'Stake'

In response to your first question about FRC, my opinion is that the demurrage concept that forces the spending of Freicoin is poorly planned.  This assumes you have places to spend it.  The economic theory behind it is that if you force the spending of a currency you increase the money multiplier, thus spurring economic activity.  Without places to spend your FRC you just have a currency that shrinks.  I think it's interesting... and doomed.

Since when did people have to be encouraged to spend money? People should be encouraged to invest, and save but not spend.

Read up on the theory if you like:

http://freico.in/

It's an interesting economic theory.  It just seems to me to be completely unworkable.

[Luckybit]

and how about freicoin.. does frc offer anything as the 'spendable' type of alt.?


edit:  also, i have plenty of coinage avail in my ppc client for minting. but i have yet to see any listed as 'Stake'

In response to your first question about FRC, my opinion is that the demurrage concept that forces the spending of Freicoin is poorly planned.  This assumes you have places to spend it.  The economic theory behind it is that if you force the spending of a currency you increase the money multiplier, thus spurring economic activity.  Without places to spend your FRC you just have a currency that shrinks.  I think it's interesting... and doomed.

Since when did people have to be encouraged to spend money? People should be encouraged to invest, and save but not spend.

Read up on the theory if you like:

http://freico.in/

It's an interesting economic theory.  It just seems to me to be completely unworkable.

Who and how many does this demurrage apply to? Based on my understanding if it's going to apply to everyone then it's not ethical and it's just a tax.

I think the theory is flawed because it can't work unless it only applies to the top top top richest 1%. So yeah we might have to encourage Satoshi to invest some of his Bitcoins but considering how evenly distributed Litecoins and PPcoins are I don't really see a point to having to encourage people to invest.

I'm not completely against demurrage in theory if we actually seem to have an elite that doesn't want to reinvest but right now we don't have that. I think if we did have demurrage it should only apply to the top 1% of any cryptocurrency.

This would mean someone like Satoshi should have to worry about demurrage because he has millions of coins and there are only ever going to be 21 million to exist. The vast majority of us should never have to worry about it. It would take an individual holding millions of coins before it should kick in for Litecoin or PPcoin. The more coins there are, the more coins it should take to kick in. It should be based on the percentage of the total coins the individual has.That is how I think the demurrage system should work.

To sum up what I'm saying, I think Freicoin gets it wrong. I think demurrage should exist but it should be tied in with Proof of Stake. Just take PPcoin and turn the code upside down so that if you hold a whole lot of coins for a long time then there is a chance that you could lose 1-5% of them. This would be a fair deflationary form of demurrage that I would support because I agree with you we do need to encourage large stake holders to reinvest in the community by force if necessary for the benefit of protecting the coin, building infrastructure and cryptocurrencies. I don't think the 99% should have to worry about that though. The 99% should be encouraged to save, which is why the currency should be deflationary along with the demurrage to prevent a 1% elite attack from dominating and destroying the community.  

[TheSeven]

Question:  Are the hash-rates for PPC reported on vircurex.com/ (3.3 TH/s) correct?  It would seem that this is just a calculation of the amount of hashing necessary to get 10 minute PoW blocks at present difficulty, but because few blocks are PoW the actual rate is significantly lower?  What if any hash-rate numbers do PPC developers trust?

The average PoW hash rate throughout the last ~3 days is a ~565GH/s.
(Yes, I just calculated that by hand, I really need to build a tool for that.)

7, could you please explain how you arrived at that figure? 

(Number of proof of work blocks) / (Time in seconds) * (Proof of work difficulty) / (2^32)
The result is in hashes per second.

[Luckybit]

Price is determined by market cap and the total coins in circulation. If PPcoin has more total coins in circulation than the market cap then the price of each coin will remain under a dollar. The inflation rate of PPcoin is still high, this means if you're waiting for PPcoins to be worth a dollar anytime soon the difficulty will have to go up sharply within months along with the market cap.

There are 19 million PPcoins but PPcoin has a shrinking market cap which just lost 11.02%!

Just have a look at the charts. http://coinmarketcap.com/

This is a signal to mine PPcoins but do not buy them because the price is going to drop into the single digits soon. Mine them while the difficulty is very low and the inflation rate is high, because eventually the difficulty will be high and you'll have no choice but to buy. The main focus of the PPcoin community should be to increase market cap as quickly as possible. Get businesses to accept PPcoin and build businesses around PPcoin or the prices will continue to drop on your investment if you bought PPcoins.

[EskimoBob]

Price is determined by market cap and the total coins in circulation.

Market cap is determined by total coins in circulation and the price of the coin. FTFY
And I hope you do see the difference.

If PPcoin has more total coins in circulation than the market cap then the price of each coin will remain under a dollar. The inflation rate of PPcoin is still high, this means if you're waiting for PPcoins to be worth a dollar anytime soon the difficulty will have to go up sharply within months along with the market cap.

There are 19 million PPcoins but PPcoin has a shrinking market cap which just lost 11.02%!

Just have a look at the charts. http://coinmarketcap.com/

This is a signal to mine PPcoins but do not buy them because the price is going to drop into the single digits soon.

You probably have not figured this out on your own - mining is like buying. You do not pay directly but you still pay for the coin. There is no "free money" even if some random idiot from Romania promises it in freenode IRC channel.

Mine them while the difficulty is very low and the inflation rate is high, because eventually the difficulty will be high and you'll have no choice but to buy. The main focus of the PPcoin community should be to increase market cap as quickly as possible. Get businesses to accept PPcoin and build businesses around PPcoin or the prices will continue to drop on your investment if you bought PPcoins.

...

[Fixx]

Price is determined by market cap and the total coins in circulation. If PPcoin has more total coins in circulation than the market cap then the price of each coin will remain under a dollar. The inflation rate of PPcoin is still high, this means if you're waiting for PPcoins to be worth a dollar anytime soon the difficulty will have to go up sharply within months along with the market cap.

There are 19 million PPcoins but PPcoin has a shrinking market cap which just lost 11.02%!

Just have a look at the charts. http://coinmarketcap.com/

This is a signal to mine PPcoins but do not buy them because the price is going to drop into the single digits soon. Mine them while the difficulty is very low and the inflation rate is high, because eventually the difficulty will be high and you'll have no choice but to buy. The main focus of the PPcoin community should be to increase market cap as quickly as possible. Get businesses to accept PPcoin and build businesses around PPcoin or the prices will continue to drop on your investment if you bought PPcoins.

For the most part, PPCoin an experimental currency with control inflation model. Mathematical experiment, as mentioned by the creator.
So how many PPC will "cost" and "capitalization" - community interest in the least.
Maybe in five years or PPC will return to the area of ​​the dollar, but in the near future it will steadily strive for cent.

[Luckybit]

Price is determined by market cap and the total coins in circulation.

Market cap is determined by total coins in circulation and the price of the coin. FTFY
And I hope you do see the difference.
[/QUOTE]

Price is correlated with market cap and the total coins in circulation. Meaning if the market cap is very high then a lot of people are likely to want to use the coin which means demand goes up but supply is low so the price goes up. That is my theory. I don't think the price mysteriously determined by any other mechanism than supply and demand but typically demand is a result of market cap.

You probably have not figured this out on your own - mining is like buying. You do not pay directly but you still pay for the coin. There is no "free money" even if some random idiot from Romania promises it in freenode IRC channel.

Never said it was free, but it's cheaper and wiser to mine a coin when difficulty increases control the rate of inflation. Why buy something which loses value when you can mine something which gains value? It has to do with Sunny King's unusual algorithm.

Just watch, in the next week the price is going to go down even more and it's all because the inflation rate increases while the market cap is shrinking that you have the signal that this about to happen. The supply is going to increase while the demand will decrease which lowers the price. This will continue to happen until the difficulty rises in such a way that the supply doesn't increase faster than demand.

[Luckybit]

For the most part, PPCoin an experimental currency with control inflation model. Mathematical experiment, as mentioned by the creator.
So how many PPC will "cost" and "capitalization" - community interest in the least.
Maybe in five years or PPC will return to the area of ​​the dollar, but in the near future it will steadily strive for cent.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you but I don't think it will take 5 years. I don't think his algorithm is quite that bad but it all depends on what happens this summer. The fate of PPC is determined this summer by what people do with their GPUs and ASICS. If my understanding is correct then only more hashing power being thrown at PPC can slow the rate of inflation.

In my opinion if it does not happen this summer then I will sell, but I predict it will happen this summer because the ASICS are coming and PPC is SHA256. That will have an impact.

[matauc12]

Price is determined by market cap and the total coins in circulation.

Market cap is determined by total coins in circulation and the price of the coin. FTFY
And I hope you do see the difference.

Price is correlated with market cap and the total coins in circulation. Meaning if the market cap is very high then a lot of people are likely to want to use the coin which means demand goes up but supply is low so the price goes up. That is my theory. I don't think the price mysteriously determined by any other mechanism than supply and demand but typically demand is a result of market cap.

You probably have not figured this out on your own - mining is like buying. You do not pay directly but you still pay for the coin. There is no "free money" even if some random idiot from Romania promises it in freenode IRC channel.

Never said it was free, but it's cheaper and wiser to mine a coin when difficulty increases control the rate of inflation. Why buy something which loses value when you can mine something which gains value? It has to do with Sunny King's unusual algorithm.

Just watch, in the next week the price is going to go down even more and it's all because the inflation rate increases while the market cap is shrinking that you have the signal that this about to happen. The supply is going to increase while the demand will decrease which lowers the price. This will continue to happen until the difficulty rises in such a way that the supply doesn't increase faster than demand.
[/quote] I don't think you get it. Its chicken and egg but in this case we know its the egg. Market cap is determined by the price, not the other way around. Market cap = total coin x price, if the price is unknown, the market cap is unknown.

I see what you are trying to do, you are trying to do price = market cap/total coins but that is just wrong. Market cap is not a primary data. Price and supply are.

[Luckybit]

I see what you are trying to do, you are trying to do price = market cap/total coins but that is just wrong. Market cap is not a primary data. Price and supply are.

Elaborate. Because the correlation holds for all coins. Coins which have a very high market cap but very low supply end up having a very high price. This is a fact and you can look at the graphs and see. Novacoin is the same technology but going for $4 a coin with a smaller market cap because of what? Because there are a lot less Novacoins because Novacoin is newer and inflating slower.

[Impaler]

Question:  Are the hash-rates for PPC reported on vircurex.com/ (3.3 TH/s) correct?  It would seem that this is just a calculation of the amount of hashing necessary to get 10 minute PoW blocks at present difficulty, but because few blocks are PoW the actual rate is significantly lower?  What if any hash-rate numbers do PPC developers trust?

The average PoW hash rate throughout the last ~3 days is a ~565GH/s.
(Yes, I just calculated that by hand, I really need to build a tool for that.)

Thank you TheSeven, at that rate PoW would represent about 17% of the blocks then.

[Luckybit]

What is the reason for not having a cap on the coin supply? What is the advantage that Sunny sees?

Flexibility and probably he trusts his formula and the market to decide that. It's a debated decision but we will see how it plays out.

[TheSeven]

Question:  Are the hash-rates for PPC reported on vircurex.com/ (3.3 TH/s) correct?  It would seem that this is just a calculation of the amount of hashing necessary to get 10 minute PoW blocks at present difficulty, but because few blocks are PoW the actual rate is significantly lower?  What if any hash-rate numbers do PPC developers trust?

The average PoW hash rate throughout the last ~3 days is a ~565GH/s.
(Yes, I just calculated that by hand, I really need to build a tool for that.)

Thank you TheSeven, at that rate PoW would represent about 17% of the blocks then.

You can easily determine that by just counting them here: http://cryptocoinexplorer.com:2750/chain/PPCoin?count=500
(You can quickly tell the PoW/PoS blocks apart by the value in the difficulty column.)

[TheSeven]

So my pool's new web site / interface is finally online!
http://theseven.bounceme.net/~theseven/pool

Any suggestions for further improvements?

[unvoid]

So my pool's new web site / interface is finally online!
http://theseven.bounceme.net/~theseven/pool

Any suggestions for further improvements?

It's great!

Can you please add FAQ section and put there yours and others knowledge? Turns out that a lot of new comers have problems with understanding POS mainly.