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Author Topic: [CLOSED] S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx  (Read 161174 times)
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July 18, 2013, 12:31:55 PM
 #2001

I am going to develop my own dice game better than sdice anyoen interested

Oddly, no
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July 18, 2013, 01:30:15 PM
 #2002

niet
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July 18, 2013, 01:37:34 PM
 #2003

[...]
SatoshiDice is being sold, in full, to a new company that will take over all ownership, operations, and management.  The total sale price is 126,315 BTC, or 0.00126315 BTC per share.

According to the MPEX Agreement, MPEX holders are entitled to receive 0.00126315 BTC per share, alongside other private owners. However, for the good of the MPEX holders and for the sake of the general Bitcoin community, which the site always has intended to support and nurture, SatoshiDice has arranged to pay MPEX holders an additional .00223685 BTC per share bringing the total to 0.0035 BTC per share.
[...]
Hmm.  The "new company" thing is kind of vague; including whether Mr Voorhees has any stake in it.  Given the numbers below I think it's almost certain he is getting such a stake.  But ignoring that for now and assuming he doesn't....

Let's guess that Erik holds 80% of shares, IPO was 10%, others unknown own the remaining 10% of which some was subsequently sold publicly.

The way I read this is that Erik has willingly cashed out 80% for 0.00126 per share, when it was trading above 0.0020 per share in the open market.  Let's assume he's compensated the whole 20%, not just the publicly traded part, as disclosed above.

He receives 80m * 0.00126 = 101,052 BTC.  However he's paying out a premium (ignoring minor refunds he mentions in his post) 20m * .00223685 or 44,737 BTC.

So he's pocketing only 56,315 BTC net for 80m shares, or 0.00070394 BTC per share.

This is clearly ridiculous, even given tough competition like Just Dice, given that he could undoubtedly successfully offer another 20m shares at say 0.002 BTC each given the market price (40k BTC total) and still be left with 60m.

So this looks to me like 2 things: a) an opportunity to reduce his stake, given the lack of focus and increasingly tough competition, and b) at the same time retain significant, but substantially reduced, interest via a stake in the "new company".

Shareholders should consider themselves lucky, I really doubt it would have ever reached something like 0.0035 BTC again on the open market.
zebedee
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July 18, 2013, 01:42:32 PM
 #2004


This all feels very rushed and, honestly, coming from someone like Erik who completely understand the Bitcoin economy and the side-effects such a sudden move might have on the market, it seems rather careless and distant from any kind of long term commitment towards Bitcoin. It's a market move.

Where is this idea coming from that Bitcoin is being sold for fiat?

He's speculating that holders of SDICE will sell their BTC after the cash out.
Yeah, and the new company buyer just got his BTC from ... thin air right?
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July 18, 2013, 01:55:25 PM
 #2005

Oh no. What will MPEx do now? They don't have anything real on their exchange now.

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July 18, 2013, 02:30:21 PM
 #2006

I was also wondering if Erik is a holder of the new company. I think part of his motivation would be to hid that fact that he as an American is running an online gambling site. Something the USA does go after.

Seems like he just wanted out and did so at a crazy low price. I'm sure there is more to this than we know.
I'm sure that both a) he has a significant interest in the new company, and b) he didn't get out at a crazy low price, because of a).

I suspect he has effectively sold 30-50% interest somewhere between -30% and +10% of the prevailing market price (0.0021 BTC say).
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July 18, 2013, 03:36:10 PM
 #2007

Seriously??? I am really shocked to see most of you are so happy with this ending.

Apparently, Erik really know finance and really good at misleading people by his knowledge. What happened here is someone took over Erik's shares at a discount price - 0.00126315. Then Erik told us that your share is worth 0.00126315 but I will add another 0.00223685 because I am responsible. Come on! Look at MPEX, the past 30 days average is around 0.0025. I believe this is how they value shares at real life stock market.

This is not the only one. When Erik tried to offer the shares at first, the shares are valued at 8 P/E ratio. Afterward when people start to losing money and blame Erik, he was like - don't too focus on price movement, please look at
annualized return, the P/E ratio is 8! Now when he try to buy back those shares, he seems forget to mention P/E at all - its time to look back to price! Wow! What a generous guy! If we give the 8 on current earning, the price will be at least 0.0045.

Is this fair???

If we ignore all the noises - the buyout thing, the 0.00126315 and the new owner - no one know if they are really exist. What we are 100% sure is Erik issued shares at around 0.0035. Now he buy back at same price. What he got? A business with public recognition through IPO. What shareholders got? Nothing.

Is this fair???
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July 18, 2013, 03:39:34 PM
 #2008

What shareholders got?

Dividends

Bugpowder
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July 18, 2013, 03:55:45 PM
 #2009

Seriously??? I am really shocked to see most of you are so happy with this ending.

Apparently, Erik really know finance and really good at misleading people by his knowledge. What happened here is someone took over Erik's shares at a discount price - 0.00126315. Then Erik told us that your share is worth 0.00126315 but I will add another 0.00223685 because I am responsible. Come on! Look at MPEX, the past 30 days average is around 0.0025. I believe this is how they value shares at real life stock market.

This is not the only one. When Erik tried to offer the shares at first, the shares are valued at 8 P/E ratio. Afterward when people start to losing money and blame Erik, he was like - don't too focus on price movement, please look at
annualized return, the P/E ratio is 8! Now when he try to buy back those shares, he seems forget to mention P/E at all - its time to look back to price! Wow! What a generous guy! If we give the 8 on current earning, the price will be at least 0.0045.

Is this fair???

If we ignore all the noises - the buyout thing, the 0.00126315 and the new owner - no one know if they are really exist. What we are 100% sure is Erik issued shares at around 0.0035. Now he buy back at same price. What he got? A business with public recognition through IPO. What shareholders got? Nothing.

Is this fair???

I hear you man.

Trades on mpex the past month look like some heavy insider trading for millions of shares, making the people that sold for a much lower price almost half of the mpex shares.

Erik, was this you buying up or one of your friends with inside knowledge?



Of course it was him.  Remember when he was going to steal all the dividends last month too?  Dude knows how to extract bitcoins from the community. He has probably acquired the majority of the float on MPEX over the last month.
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July 18, 2013, 03:55:50 PM
 #2010

Seriously??? I am really shocked to see most of you are so happy with this ending.

Apparently, Erik really know finance and really good at misleading people by his knowledge. What happened here is someone took over Erik's shares at a discount price - 0.00126315. Then Erik told us that your share is worth 0.00126315 but I will add another 0.00223685 because I am responsible. Come on! Look at MPEX, the past 30 days average is around 0.0025. I believe this is how they value shares at real life stock market.

This is not the only one. When Erik tried to offer the shares at first, the shares are valued at 8 P/E ratio. Afterward when people start to losing money and blame Erik, he was like - don't too focus on price movement, please look at
annualized return, the P/E ratio is 8! Now when he try to buy back those shares, he seems forget to mention P/E at all - its time to look back to price! Wow! What a generous guy! If we give the 8 on current earning, the price will be at least 0.0045.

Is this fair???

If we ignore all the noises - the buyout thing, the 0.00126315 and the new owner - no one know if they are really exist. What we are 100% sure is Erik issued shares at around 0.0035. Now he buy back at same price. What he got? A business with public recognition through IPO. What shareholders got? Nothing.

Is this fair???

I hear you man.

Trades on mpex the past month look like some heavy insider trading for millions of shares, making the people that sold for a much lower price almost half of the mpex shares.

Erik, was this you buying up or one of your friends with inside knowledge?

Not saying it was. It could well have been the buyer. Just asking.



It also could have been the new owner.
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July 18, 2013, 04:00:04 PM
 #2011

So I can't help but notice that there is no "news" or announcement at BitFunder about this.  Does anyone with knowledge of pass-throughs know what we as shareholders through such services have to do in this case?  Do we have to sell our shares (for less than the buyout value based on their spread), or can we just sit tight, and wait until our assets magically just disappear and our account balance goes up?

employee at CBT Nuggets
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July 18, 2013, 04:01:45 PM
 #2012


We made our buy decision not because of the dividends, are we? In the past months, shareholders' bitcoins are the 'bankroll' of Satoshi Dice game. Don't they deserve those dividends?? We bought it because we believe it will grow. Now it is earning way more than the time before IPO, but we have to sell them at much lower P/E ratio.

Even in Erik's 'share retirement' letter, he said 'This is a 277% premium over the sale price and a roughly 175% premium over the current market price of S.DICE shares on MPEX.' Wow fancy number! But this is completely misleading, please check how to calculate "premium" on dictionary - they should be 177% and 75%.

Sorry if I made my comments too personal. I just think shareholders deserve fair
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July 18, 2013, 04:10:26 PM
 #2013

So I can't help but notice that there is no "news" or announcement at BitFunder about this.  Does anyone with knowledge of pass-throughs know what we as shareholders through such services have to do in this case?  Do we have to sell our shares (for less than the buyout value based on their spread), or can we just sit tight, and wait until our assets magically just disappear and our account balance goes up?

You can wait. The pass-throughs will automatically get bitcoins for all the shares they hold and will forward them to you and remove your shares.

how long is it until this happens?

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July 18, 2013, 04:13:08 PM
 #2014

So I can't help but notice that there is no "news" or announcement at BitFunder about this.  Does anyone with knowledge of pass-throughs know what we as shareholders through such services have to do in this case?  Do we have to sell our shares (for less than the buyout value based on their spread), or can we just sit tight, and wait until our assets magically just disappear and our account balance goes up?

You can wait. The pass-throughs will automatically get bitcoins for all the shares they hold and will forward them to you and remove your shares.

how long is it until this happens?

Ask the operator(s) of the passthroughs. They have to manually distribute the coins when they receive them.

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July 18, 2013, 04:18:26 PM
 #2015

So I can't help but notice that there is no "news" or announcement at BitFunder about this.  Does anyone with knowledge of pass-throughs know what we as shareholders through such services have to do in this case?  Do we have to sell our shares (for less than the buyout value based on their spread), or can we just sit tight, and wait until our assets magically just disappear and our account balance goes up?

You can wait. The pass-throughs will automatically get bitcoins for all the shares they hold and will forward them to you and remove your shares.

how long is it until this happens?

Please note that due to my vacation in Spain, the payout and buy back of the S.DICE shares will not happen until the 28th.
I am sorry for this but I do not have my gpg key and such on my laptop they are on a dedicated computer of which I currently do not have access to.
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July 18, 2013, 05:20:18 PM
 #2016

So I can't help but notice that there is no "news" or announcement at BitFunder about this.  Does anyone with knowledge of pass-throughs know what we as shareholders through such services have to do in this case?  Do we have to sell our shares (for less than the buyout value based on their spread), or can we just sit tight, and wait until our assets magically just disappear and our account balance goes up?

You can wait. The pass-throughs will automatically get bitcoins for all the shares they hold and will forward them to you and remove your shares.

how long is it until this happens?

Please note that due to my vacation in Spain, the payout and buy back of the S.DICE shares will not happen until the 28th.
I am sorry for this but I do not have my gpg key and such on my laptop they are on a dedicated computer of which I currently do not have access to.
Best Regards
DeaDTerra

For how much of the total public lot does DeaDTerra account for?

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July 18, 2013, 05:59:45 PM
 #2017

...
As per the S.DICE agreement, asset owners do not have voting rights to effect operational changes, nor any rights to negotiate nor block a full buyout of the company.  Nevertheless, SatoshiDice has kept the interests of the asset holders in mind throughout this negotiation process, and has intended to treat these holders fairly, above and beyond contractual obligations.
...

Erik is an ethical business man and was very professional in his operation of SatoshiDice. Let this be an example to anyone who believes that we need regulations and the coercive power of the state in order to have commerce.

Erik, nice job this is really cool and I think that the SatoshiDICE experiment is one for the history books.

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July 18, 2013, 06:11:59 PM
 #2018

...
As per the S.DICE agreement, asset owners do not have voting rights to effect operational changes, nor any rights to negotiate nor block a full buyout of the company.  Nevertheless, SatoshiDice has kept the interests of the asset holders in mind throughout this negotiation process, and has intended to treat these holders fairly, above and beyond contractual obligations.
...

Erik is an ethical business man and was very professional in his operation of SatoshiDice. Let this be an example to anyone who believes that we need regulations and the coercive power of the state in order to have commerce.

Erik, nice job this is really cool and I think that the SatoshiDICE experiment is one for the history books.


lol

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July 18, 2013, 06:27:11 PM
 #2019

So he's pocketing only 56,315 BTC net for 80m shares, or 0.00070394 BTC per share.

You got that wrong. Erik gets 126,315 BTC.

If I remember right, 3 more slice of 1 million shares were sold by the private investors, so 13m * 0.0035 = 45,500 BTC for MPEx holders.

It leaves 80,815 BTC to be split among the remaining 87m shares, thus 0.00092890 BTC per share. This cut is taken by Erik/private investors. Only MPEx holders are compensated at ~IPO prices. If the sale prices he quotes is true, he's giving MPEx holders almost 3x what he had to as per contract for the sale. About half the market price. It's a cut, but there wasn't enough demand to fill 87 million shares.


(By the way, for the others, even if it was not profit shares but these had voting rights, MPEx holders wouldn't be able to vote against it and the minimum compensation is indeed much lower than sale price, so he could have paid 0.00126 per share)
Quote
(a)The representatives of SatoshiDice have elected to divide SatoshiDice into 100`000`000 (one hundred million) equal non-voting shares with a total equity value of 10`000 BTC (0.0001 BTC each). In the event of liquidation or breach of this Agreement they solemnly promise and warrant to repay all investors holding shares at this minimum value.

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July 18, 2013, 06:30:02 PM
 #2020

...
As per the S.DICE agreement, asset owners do not have voting rights to effect operational changes, nor any rights to negotiate nor block a full buyout of the company.  Nevertheless, SatoshiDice has kept the interests of the asset holders in mind throughout this negotiation process, and has intended to treat these holders fairly, above and beyond contractual obligations.
...

Erik is an ethical business man and was very professional in his operation of SatoshiDice. Let this be an example to anyone who believes that we need regulations and the coercive power of the state in order to have commerce.

Erik, nice job this is really cool and I think that the SatoshiDICE experiment is one for the history books.


You're a funny guy.

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