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Author Topic: MoneyPot.com :: The bitcoin gambling wallet  (Read 76767 times)
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August 31, 2015, 11:54:37 PM
 #501


Are they misleading, though? That's a big question. If they're upfront, I see it being no different than a HYIP -- people can do as they wish. If they are claiming to have better odds, though, that's a problem.

Any site that has 50x worse odds than industry standard is obviously trying to mislead customers, yes.
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August 31, 2015, 11:55:24 PM
 #502

Can we close the discussion about it already because the issue is already resolved.

Good work Ryan for stepping up and resolving the issue with professionalism, you even paid up someone with your own pocket.
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September 01, 2015, 01:52:46 AM
 #503

There is a new app on moneypot, 'Masterdice' that has horrific odds and is basically trying to scam people.

I posted the following in their thread and it got INSTANTLY deleted, as it's a self-moderated thread:

Anyone betting on this site is a massive mark as the "expected profit" is 50%.

FIFTY PERCENT!!!

Seriously, just look at what you risk/win.  If you bet @ 2x odds (1 to win 1), the chance is 24.5%.  This site has probably the worst odds anywhere on the internet.  STAY AWAY! (and pay attention before you bet)



Thanks for letting me know. I've posted on the thread, and temporary disabled API access for their app until they take some steps to be less misleading.

Are they misleading, though? That's a big question. If they're upfront, I see it being no different than a HYIP -- people can do as they wish. If they are claiming to have better odds, though, that's a problem.

Winning chance is shown on site



Where is this app exactly? I can't find it. Is it for an Android or Apple iPhone ?

I am really surprised it has such bad odds, maybe its a bug.

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September 01, 2015, 03:57:55 AM
 #504


Where is this app exactly? I can't find it. Is it for an Android or Apple iPhone ?

I am really surprised it has such bad odds, maybe its a bug.

Its a website using moneypot API and I think the admin reduced the house edge from 50% to 1%.

Its not a bug, its just big house edge
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September 01, 2015, 04:42:52 AM
 #505

Are they misleading, though? That's a big question. If they're upfront, I see it being no different than a HYIP -- people can do as they wish. If they are claiming to have better odds, though, that's a problem.

If anyone wants to offer a 50% house edge, and users want to play a game where they're basically handing the casino money, I don't have a problem with it. But considering how highly unusual this is, I think they should take steps to make this extremely clear and explicit.

Showing the winning chance is good, but many people aren't fully aware of how this translates to house edge

Based on the image above, I think it's pretty clear, really. Shows chance to win, as well as profit (most sites won't show profit from the roll). To me, that's a good enough sign. I don't see any trickery there.

It is certainly clear for say around 90% of players. What about the rest? What about someone who doesn't read it? Those who have trouble with numbers?

I'd say Moneypot should restrict maximum house edges of its apps to a reasonable level, so that players who trust MP are not exploited.

On the other hand, there are apps that have customization options that lets a player play as long as the house edge is greater than a limit (so a player can play with 99% edge too). But that is a completely different case and is fine as long as the house edge is shown as in plinkopot, but hadn't been so with BB plinko.

If MasterDice is allowed, soon there will be apps that say 0.50% winning chance for 2x. It might get even smart players confused till they make a roll. Tongue
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September 01, 2015, 05:25:33 AM
 #506

What about the rest? What about someone who doesn't read it? Those who have trouble with numbers?

Seriously? These people shouldn't be gambling, first of all, so they're irrelevant. If someone blindly throws their money at something, they deserve to lose it all. It's really that simple.
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September 01, 2015, 05:46:50 AM
 #507

What about the rest? What about someone who doesn't read it? Those who have trouble with numbers?

Seriously? These people shouldn't be gambling, first of all, so they're irrelevant. If someone blindly throws their money at something, they deserve to lose it all. It's really that simple.
I strongly agree, especially countering the concern about those who do not read.

It is the responsibility of the person gambling to understand the circumstances in which they will win and in which they will lose. If they do not then why would they even be making a specific bet in the first place?

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September 01, 2015, 05:52:51 AM
 #508

What about the rest? What about someone who doesn't read it? Those who have trouble with numbers?

Seriously? These people shouldn't be gambling, first of all, so they're irrelevant. If someone blindly throws their money at something, they deserve to lose it all. It's really that simple.

And MasterDice "deserves" to profit from them? Tongue



I strongly agree, especially countering the concern about those who do not read.

It is the responsibility of the person gambling to understand the circumstances in which they will win and in which they will lose. If they do not then why would they even be making a specific bet in the first place?

And you were concerned about DD?




I suggest both of you take a break, bet some 10BTC each in Masterdice before you talk about this again. Smiley
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September 01, 2015, 05:59:06 AM
 #509

What about the rest? What about someone who doesn't read it? Those who have trouble with numbers?

Seriously? These people shouldn't be gambling, first of all, so they're irrelevant. If someone blindly throws their money at something, they deserve to lose it all. It's really that simple.

And MasterDice "deserves" to profit from them? Tongue



I strongly agree, especially countering the concern about those who do not read.

It is the responsibility of the person gambling to understand the circumstances in which they will win and in which they will lose. If they do not then why would they even be making a specific bet in the first place?

And you were concerned about DD?

I suggest both of you take a break, bet some 10BTC each in Masterdice before you talk about this again. Smiley

I rarely gamble at all, even if there's a house edge of 0.001%. My strong background in mathematics is more than enough to make me realize that every bet I make is another risk I take. If someone wants to take a high-risk, low-reward gamble, that's on them. Anyone who has ever bought an altcoin has done that, Smiley.
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September 01, 2015, 05:59:26 AM
 #510


I rarely gamble at all, even if there's a house edge of 0.001%. My strong background in mathematics is more than enough to make me realize that every bet I make is another risk I take. If someone wants to take a high-risk, low-reward gamble, that's on them. Anyone who has ever bought an altcoin has done that, Smiley.

Well, no one with reasonable sanity will be willing to play a 50% edge dice game, esp. considering that there EW <1% edge offering dice sites within reach.
This is indeed unusual, and the app is clearly hoping for someone to fall into the trap.

Encouraging this behavior will get some 100% edge apps soon.



Are they misleading, though? That's a big question. If they're upfront, I see it being no different than a HYIP -- people can do as they wish. If they are claiming to have better odds, though, that's a problem.

If anyone wants to offer a 50% house edge, and users want to play a game where they're basically handing the casino money, I don't have a problem with it. But considering how highly unusual this is, I think they should take steps to make this extremely clear and explicit.

Showing the winning chance is good, but many people aren't fully aware of how this translates to house edge

There is a new app on moneypot, 'Masterdice' that has horrific odds and is basically trying to scam people.

I posted the following in their thread and it got INSTANTLY deleted, as it's a self-moderated thread:

Anyone betting on this site is a massive mark as the "expected profit" is 50%.

FIFTY PERCENT!!!

Seriously, just look at what you risk/win.  If you bet @ 2x odds (1 to win 1), the chance is 24.5%.  This site has probably the worst odds anywhere on the internet.  STAY AWAY! (and pay attention before you bet)



Thanks for letting me know. I've posted on the thread, and temporary disabled API access for their app until they take some steps to be less misleading.


I personally respect this decision. ^. Smiley

It is indeed the responsibility of the player. Doesn't mean Moneypot shouldn't stop a possible exploitation of stupid players. Grin
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September 01, 2015, 06:06:56 AM
 #511

I suggest both of you take a break, bet some 10BTC each in Masterdice before you talk about this again. Smiley
Why would I do this? I can clearly see that their house edge is not competitive and that the chances of me winning over the short term due to variance is close to zero.

I would know however that I would receive any winnings that I *might* win because of money pot's proof of assets and proof of liabilities. Wink

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September 01, 2015, 06:08:35 AM
 #512

I would know however that I would receive any winnings that I *might* win because of money pot's proof of assets and proof of liabilities. Wink

The app has complete control over your balance as long as they are in the app. There is a chance that you may not. Grin
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September 01, 2015, 06:09:06 AM
 #513

I suggest both of you take a break, bet some 10BTC each in Masterdice before you talk about this again. Smiley
Why would I do this? I can clearly see that their house edge is not competitive and that the chances of me winning over the short term due to variance is close to zero.

I would know however that I would receive any winnings that I *might* win because of money pot's proof of assets and proof of liabilities. Wink

He's basically pushing this victimization thing that everyone's been on lately. Nothing is ever your fault. You bet on a site that made it clear you're disadvantaged? It's their fault and not yours. You ran out in front of a car in the middle of the night? Driver's fault. You shot yourself in the foot with a pistol? Gun maker's fault. Nothing is ever your fault -- always blame it on someone else.
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September 01, 2015, 06:10:43 AM
 #514

TBH I think MP should just have a max HE of 5  - 10%. I mean it could be an advantage to have a higher HE, so the site can offer a higher max profit (for example a dynamic max profit like SafeDice.) But 50% is just crazy, even national lotteries are not that high. I don't see any reason to facilitate such high HE. Also, I think it would be good if there is a policy that the app should show HE when it's above let's say 2%.



Saying it's like a ponzi who is honest about being a ponzi, is correct. Question is if MP wants to help that kind of sketchy apps.

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September 01, 2015, 06:12:49 AM
 #515


I rarely gamble at all, even if there's a house edge of 0.001%. My strong background in mathematics is more than enough to make me realize that every bet I make is another risk I take. If someone wants to take a high-risk, low-reward gamble, that's on them. Anyone who has ever bought an altcoin has done that, Smiley.

LOL. Smiley

Btw, edge is just one of the variables that makes a player lose. Would you play had the edge been negative 0.1%?

A player with a finite balance vs a house with infinite balance guarantees that the player lose. In real life cases, there is no "infinite balance", so they have this "max bet", though not that effective, makes player winning over the house difficult.
In other words, player stops playing till his balance is wiped out. Grin
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September 01, 2015, 06:14:01 AM
 #516


I rarely gamble at all, even if there's a house edge of 0.001%. My strong background in mathematics is more than enough to make me realize that every bet I make is another risk I take. If someone wants to take a high-risk, low-reward gamble, that's on them. Anyone who has ever bought an altcoin has done that, Smiley.

LOL. Smiley

Btw, edge is just one of the variables that makes a player lose. Would you play had the edge been negative 0.1%?

A player with a finite balance vs a house with infinite balance guarantees that the player lose. In real life cases, there is no "infinite balance", so they have this "max bet", though not that effective, makes player winning over the house difficult.
In other words, player stops playing till his balance is wiped out. Grin

I'd gamble the same amount I do now. I do it for fun. I go in with the mindset that I've already lost 100% of it. If I come out ahead, great. If not, I wasn't expecting to.
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September 01, 2015, 06:16:21 AM
 #517

Question is if MP wants to help that kind of sketchy apps.

Precisely. Don't want MP supporting it. Smiley




I suggest both of you take a break, bet some 10BTC each in Masterdice before you talk about this again. Smiley
Why would I do this? I can clearly see that their house edge is not competitive and that the chances of me winning over the short term due to variance is close to zero.

I would know however that I would receive any winnings that I *might* win because of money pot's proof of assets and proof of liabilities. Wink

He's basically pushing this victimization thing that everyone's been on lately. Nothing is ever your fault. You bet on a site that made it clear you're disadvantaged? It's their fault and not yours. You ran out in front of a car in the middle of the night? Driver's fault. You shot yourself in the foot with a pistol? Gun maker's fault. Nothing is ever your fault -- always blame it on someone else.

You scam someone. Whose fault? Tongue


My view:
Well the one who got scammed is stupid. But you are guilty coz you did it. Smiley




TBH I think MP should just have a max HE of 5  - 10%. I mean it could be an advantage to have a higher HE, so the site can offer a higher max profit (for example a dynamic max profit like SafeDice.) But 50% is just crazy, even national lotteries are not that high. I don't see any reason to facilitate such high HE. Also, I think it would be good if there is a policy that the app should show HE when it's above let's say 2%.



Saying it's like a ponzi who is honest about being a ponzi, is correct. Question is if MP wants to help that kind of sketchy apps.

I agree. There should be some kind of guidelines for an app. Most of the apps already follow it. MP follows the standard practices too.

It shows Moneypot to be more responsible towards players, in the least. Smiley
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September 01, 2015, 09:00:13 PM
 #518

Hey app developers, I would like to cut down on a lot of the spam we're seeing. I don't want to be overbearing, but there's some simple things we can do, so I don't need to start aggressively rate-limiting apps.

I'd appreciate if apps could start enforcing a minimum of a 1 bit (1e-6 btc) minimum bet, that way I can go ahead and deprecate satoshi-level bets  (first by put a huge delay on sub-bit bets) and eventually remove it all together.

Also, I'll ask that people respect the server resources and not overly aggressively spam. (e.g. Don't hit /list-bets in a tight loop, when you can use socketpot to have push notifications on bets). When people are auto-betting small amounts (to put in perspective 1 bit is only $0.00023) try put sane delays in place.  Also bets are inherently sequential (each bet, gives you the next provably fair hash to use) so parallelizing this is guaranteed to give errors, put considerable load on our servers for no purpose and make it harder for you to verify the bets.

On a more positive note, we've given out a total of 87.84 BTC in commissions to app developers! Keep it up!

Thanks!

=)
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September 02, 2015, 01:42:36 AM
 #519

Hey app developers, I would like to cut down on a lot of the spam we're seeing. I don't want to be overbearing, but there's some simple things we can do, so I don't need to start aggressively rate-limiting apps.

I'd appreciate if apps could start enforcing a minimum of a 1 bit (1e-6 btc) minimum bet, that way I can go ahead and deprecate satoshi-level bets  (first by put a huge delay on sub-bit bets) and eventually remove it all together.

Also, I'll ask that people respect the server resources and not overly aggressively spam. (e.g. Don't hit /list-bets in a tight loop, when you can use socketpot to have push notifications on bets). When people are auto-betting small amounts (to put in perspective 1 bit is only $0.00023) try put sane delays in place.  Also bets are inherently sequential (each bet, gives you the next provably fair hash to use) so parallelizing this is guaranteed to give errors, put considerable load on our servers for no purpose and make it harder for you to verify the bets.

On a more positive note, we've given out a total of 87.84 BTC in commissions to app developers! Keep it up!

Thanks!

=)

BB already slows bets of less than a bit, so hopefully they can keep allowing it (1 bet per second). It's one of the things that drew me to that site...
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September 02, 2015, 03:14:24 AM
 #520

haven't been on but that dosent mean i didn't notice the massive upgrade and app integergration. Pat yourself on the fucking back you deserved it Cheesy  Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink
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