An exact/estimate reason why Bitcointalk doesn't load without VPN for me?

[Muhammed Zakir]

Hello,

I was browsing forum and everything was normal but a few minutes ago, forum wasn't loading. I tried many times reloading, it didn't come. When I looked isitdownrightnow, it stated Bitcointalk is up. So I used VPN and then I tried, forum loaded. This weird issue occur some times to me. Does anybody know a reason or a workaround for this issue? Thank you!

[1714005022]

1714005022

[1714005022]

1714005022

[1714005022]

1714005022

[Welsh]

What error is it reporting? Does it just timeout? Seems like this is a problem on your end. So checking your computer for the things below might be a good idea. There was a recent IP address change, so it might be the protection that theymos is using. They might be blocking your particular ISP or country.


There's a few things to check:

- Clear cookies & cache.
- Are you using HTTP Everywhere? Sometimes, this can mess up and case issues with certain sites, I don't think this is the case for this though.
- Check "hosts" file and alter if needed.
- Flushing the DNS
- Check if your ISP is blocking it

[Muhammed Zakir]

What error is it reporting? Does it just timeout? Seems like this is a problem on your end. So checking your computer for the things below might be a good idea. There was a recent IP address change, so it might be the protection that theymos is using. They might be blocking your particular ISP or country.


There's a few things to check:

- Clear cookies & cache.
- Are you using HTTP Everywhere? Sometimes, this can mess up and case issues with certain sites, I don't think this is the case for this though.
- Check "hosts" file and alter if needed.
- Flushing the DNS
- Check if your ISP is blocking it

Thank you for replying! Browser is saying I am not connected to internet. Yeah, I noticed the thread about IP address change. I will post the result after doing this. However, I may not flush DNS. Is it necessary?

P.S. I don't think ISP is blocking. This happens only sometime. If it happen, I won't be able to access the forum for next some minutes or even few hours unless I use VPN.

[theymos]

Maybe you're doing something that the anti-DDoS service is blocking. I haven't had any other reports of this, so you're probably doing something quite unusual. It might be something else, too.

[xandry]

I think it would be nice if you show us or you compared just some network diagnostic results. I mean ping, traceroute by ip and by name with VPN connection and without VPN connection.  
It is normal procedure in such cases.

edited: fixed errors

[Muhammed Zakir]

Maybe you're doing something that the anti-DDoS service is blocking. I haven't had any other reports of this, so you're probably doing something quite unusual. It might be something else, too.

Thank you for replying! I am really a noob to these things. So my questions may utterly wrong or stupid. Sorry if it is.

I am only browsing forum using a very slow internet. So here are the questions:

• If I use slow internet connections, will the request be send frequently than it should be?
• If above is true, how much time does anti-DDoS service blocks me?
• If above is false, is there any other reason for anti-DDoS service to block me?

I think it would be nice if you show us or you compared just some network diagnostic results. I mean ping, traceroute by ip and by name with VPN connection and without VPN connection. 
It is normal procedure in such cases.

edited: fixed errors

Thank you for replying! I got the error when I used mobile and I get this when I use PC too. ATM I am using PC and I can't replicate this issue. When it happens again, I will try to post these details here. My VPN is either connecting via Canada or US. I don't remember which country it showed when I use.

Edit: I suddenly couldn't post this and I couldn't open anything. So I pinged and here is the result:

Code:

Pinging bitcointalk.org [186.2.165.183] with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 186.2.165.183:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),

After some seconds, I pinged again:

Code:

Pinging bitcointalk.org [186.2.165.183] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 186.2.165.183: bytes=32 time=442ms TTL=49
Reply from 186.2.165.183: bytes=32 time=644ms TTL=49
Reply from 186.2.165.183: bytes=32 time=563ms TTL=49
Reply from 186.2.165.183: bytes=32 time=743ms TTL=49

Ping statistics for 186.2.165.183:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 442ms, Maximum = 743ms, Average = 598ms

[CIYAM]

The pings indicate it simply is unable to access the server which perhaps is due to timeouts if your internet connection is slow (although I guess DDoS protection might block pings).

Also note that although you might not be doing anything suspicious if another user with a very close IP address is up to no good then DDoS blocking could affect you also.

[CIYAM]

@theymos - I've noticed when pinging since the IP change there is a "non-specific reverse DNS" entry:

Code:

PING bitcointalk.org (186.2.165.183) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from node-186-2-165-183.reverse.x4b.me (186.2.165.183): icmp_seq=1 ttl=54 time=10.2 ms
64 bytes from node-186-2-165-183.reverse.x4b.me (186.2.165.183): icmp_seq=2 ttl=54 time=9.72 ms
64 bytes from node-186-2-165-183.reverse.x4b.me (186.2.165.183): icmp_seq=3 ttl=54 time=10.0 ms
64 bytes from node-186-2-165-183.reverse.x4b.me (186.2.165.183): icmp_seq=4 ttl=54 time=10.2 ms

This might cause the forum to have troubles emailing users (unrelated to the OP but just thought I'd mention this).

[Muhammed Zakir]

The pings indicate it simply is unable to access the server which perhaps is due to timeouts if your internet connection is slow (although I guess DDoS protection might block pings).

Also note that although you might not be doing anything suspicious if another user with a very close IP address is then DDoS blocking could affect you also.

Okay! Thank you for telling. But why it is only happening when I access this forum?

Oh! I didn't know that. IP address can only be close if he is near me or manually change to an IP address close to me, right? I have met many people and AFAIK only one or two person is near to me who at least know what Bitcoin is. He has registered here but I guess he isn't posting here. He is ~1+ km away from my home. Does this still apply?

[CIYAM]

He is ~1+ km away from my home. Does this still apply?

Maybe (if he is using the same ISP) - if you have more than one internet provider (by using say a 3G internet USB device) then you could try via the different ISP (without the VPN).

If it works perfectly via 3G but not via your normal ISP then it is far more likely to be due to IP blocking.

[theymos]

If it works perfectly via 3G but not via your normal ISP then it is far more likely to be due to IP blocking.

It might also indicate that his normal ISP is having temporary problems connecting to the forum's ISP.

I guess these problems started long after we switched to the anti-DDoS service, and I haven't received any other complaints about this, so I feel like it's somewhat unlikely to be the anti-DDoS service.

@theymos - I've noticed when pinging since the IP change there is an "non-specific reverse DNS" entry:

Fixed, thanks. (The change will need time to propagate.)

[Muhammed Zakir]

He is ~1+ km away from my home. Does this still apply?

Maybe (if he is using the same ISP) - if you have more than one internet provider (by using say a 3G internet USB device) then you could try via the different ISP (without the VPN).

If it works perfectly via 3G but not via your normal ISP then it is far more likely to be due to IP blocking.

Nope. I tried with different ISP which was much faster than this and I get same problem.

At the time of posting I used 3G and I had to access this forum via VPN.

If it works perfectly via 3G but not via your normal ISP then it is far more likely to be due to IP blocking.

It might also indicate that his normal ISP is having temporary problems connecting to the forum's ISP.

I guess these problems started long after we switched to the anti-DDoS service, and I haven't received any other complaints about this, so I feel like it's somewhat unlikely to be the anti-DDoS service.

As I have mentioned above, problem still occurs with different ISP.
 

@theymos - I've noticed when pinging since the IP change there is an "non-specific reverse DNS" entry:

Fixed, thanks. (The change will need time to propagate.)

Thank you!

[CIYAM]

Nope. I tried with different ISP which was much faster than this and I get same problem.

Hmm... both were 3G or one 3G and one ADSL (or other)?

[Quickseller]

I think it would be nice if you show us or you compared just some network diagnostic results. I mean ping, traceroute by ip and by name with VPN connection and without VPN connection.  
It is normal procedure in such cases.

edited: fixed errors

You should post a traceroute both with your VPN and your ISP. This will most likely yield much more useful information and will give much more conclusive results as to if it is the anti-DDoS service or an issue with your VPN

It is an expected result to have timeout errors when attempting to ping the forum's IP address when you are unable to access it

edit:

I don't think the anti-DDoS service likes people to tracert the forum:
No VPN

Code:

Traceroute has started…

traceroute to bitcointalk.org (186.2.165.183), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
-snip-
 4  12.83.102.141 (12.83.102.141)  35.372 ms  50.019 ms  32.040 ms
 5  12.122.154.162 (12.122.154.162)  42.939 ms  37.711 ms  36.510 ms
 6  cr2.attga.ip.att.net (12.122.30.82)  39.248 ms  62.900 ms  35.360 ms
 7  12.122.117.121 (12.122.117.121)  35.387 ms  41.532 ms  39.527 ms
 8  * * *
 9  * * *
10  * * *
11  * * *
12  * * *
13  * * *
14  ddos-guard.net (186.2.165.2)  127.142 ms  124.530 ms  131.947 ms
15  node-186-2-165-183.reverse.x4b.me (186.2.165.183)  128.055 ms  135.663 ms  133.614 ms

Code:

Traceroute has started…

traceroute to 186.2.165.183 (186.2.165.183), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
 -snip-
 4  12.83.102.141 (12.83.102.141)  34.494 ms  57.647 ms  40.879 ms
 5  12.122.154.162 (12.122.154.162)  35.817 ms  37.463 ms  53.991 ms
 6  cr2.attga.ip.att.net (12.122.30.82)  35.148 ms  39.349 ms  35.061 ms
 7  12.122.117.121 (12.122.117.121)  33.530 ms *  36.226 ms
 8  * * *
 9  * * *
10  * * *
11  * * *
12  * * *
13  * * *
14  ddos-guard.net (186.2.165.2)  180.387 ms  133.011 ms  150.389 ms
15  node-186-2-165-183.reverse.x4b.me (186.2.165.183)  124.622 ms  144.493 ms  180.666 ms

Behind PIA - east cost gateway:

Code:

Traceroute has started…

traceroute to bitcointalk.org (186.2.165.183), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
 1  * 10.168.1.1 (10.168.1.1)  54.869 ms  47.485 ms
 2  108.61.68.129 (108.61.68.129)  60.919 ms  48.574 ms  51.532 ms
 3  108.61.244.121 (108.61.244.121)  71.301 ms  56.625 ms  56.273 ms
 4  ae-33.r05.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (128.241.2.201)  55.582 ms *  55.975 ms
 5  ae-3.r06.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.4.205)  138.774 ms  65.133 ms  73.385 ms
 6  * * *
 7  * * *
 8  * * *
 9  * * *
10  * * *
11  * * *
12  ddos-guard.net (186.2.165.2)  133.579 ms  127.574 ms  142.507 ms
13  node-186-2-165-183.reverse.x4b.me (186.2.165.183)  134.889 ms  154.506 ms  129.043 ms

Behind Australia Melbourne gateway:

Code:

Traceroute has started…

traceroute to bitcointalk.org (186.2.165.183), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
 1  10.186.1.1 (10.186.1.1)  390.808 ms *  388.547 ms
 2  168.1.75.3-static.reverse.softlayer.com (168.1.75.3)  398.475 ms  390.183 ms  416.742 ms
 3  ae12.dar02.mel01.networklayer.com (168.1.118.136)  392.790 ms  405.587 ms  405.534 ms
 4  ae9.bbr02.nd01.mel02.networklayer.com (50.97.19.78)  393.577 ms  403.574 ms *
 5  * ae0.bbr02.eq01.syd02.networklayer.com (50.97.19.64)  467.495 ms  408.484 ms
 6  * ae7.bbr01.eq01.syd02.networklayer.com (50.97.19.60)  406.300 ms  410.425 ms
 7  ae1.bbr02.eq01.tok01.networklayer.com (50.97.19.67)  530.237 ms * *
 8  ae0.bbr01.pn01.hkg01.networklayer.com (50.97.18.167)  572.426 ms  765.608 ms  618.066 ms
 9  * * *
10  * * *
11  * * *
12  * * *
13  * * *
14  * * *
15  ddos-guard.net (186.2.165.2)  740.038 ms  919.166 ms  827.251 ms
16  node-186-2-165-183.reverse.x4b.me (186.2.165.183)  761.813 ms  752.532 ms  745.658 ms

From UK London gateway:

Code:

Traceroute has started…

traceroute to bitcointalk.org (186.2.165.183), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
 1  192.168.1.254 (192.168.1.254)  11.116 ms  30.467 ms  1.908 ms
 2  99-114-148-3.lightspeed.chrlnc.sbcglobal.net (99.114.148.3)  33.108 ms  51.563 ms  30.862 ms
 3  * 99.133.205.76 (99.133.205.76)  24.339 ms *
 4  12.83.102.141 (12.83.102.141)  33.268 ms  27.656 ms  26.188 ms
 5  12.122.154.162 (12.122.154.162)  36.318 ms  32.487 ms  67.926 ms
 6  cr2.attga.ip.att.net (12.122.30.82)  63.113 ms  36.141 ms  34.724 ms
 7  12.122.117.121 (12.122.117.121)  47.777 ms  42.252 ms  35.117 ms
 8  * * *
 9  * ae-2-6.ear1.amsterdam1.level3.net (4.69.153.190)  144.831 ms *
10  * * *
11  *traceroute: sendto: No route to host
traceroute: wrote bitcointalk.org 72 chars, ret=-1
 *traceroute: sendto: No route to host
traceroute: wrote bitcointalk.org 72 chars, ret=-1
 *
traceroute: sendto: No route to host
12 traceroute: wrote bitcointalk.org 72 chars, ret=-1
 *traceroute: sendto: No route to host

Second try from UK London gateway

Code:

Traceroute has started…

traceroute to bitcointalk.org (186.2.165.183), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
 1  10.164.1.1 (10.164.1.1)  144.508 ms *  145.007 ms
 2  2e1c3502.lon.100tb.com (46.28.53.2)  143.389 ms  139.378 ms  153.804 ms
 3  * 83.170.70.225 (83.170.70.225)  147.705 ms  156.591 ms
 4  linx-224.retn.net (195.66.224.193)  143.552 ms  147.772 ms  139.202 ms
 5  et510-1.rt.m9.msk.ru.retn.net (87.245.232.2)  195.842 ms  189.148 ms  188.549 ms
 6  * * *
 7  * * *
 8  * * *
 9  * * *
10  * * *
11  * * ddos-guard.net (186.2.165.2)  209.088 ms
12  * node-186-2-165-183.reverse.x4b.me (186.2.165.183)  211.918 ms *

From UK London gateway to ghash.io (recent victim of strong DDoS attack)

Code:

Traceroute has started…

traceroute: Warning: ghash.io has multiple addresses; using 198.41.187.247
traceroute to ghash.io (198.41.187.247), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
 1  * 10.164.1.1 (10.164.1.1)  311.789 ms  377.274 ms
 2  2e1c3503.lon.100tb.com (46.28.53.3)  133.720 ms  320.980 ms *
 3  83.170.70.237 (83.170.70.237)  147.431 ms  155.485 ms  154.361 ms
 4  linx-juniper.as13335.net (195.66.225.179)  149.369 ms  178.439 ms  199.921 ms
 5  198.41.187.247 (198.41.187.247)  151.358 ms  163.211 ms  155.210 ms

[Muhammed Zakir]

Nope. I tried with different ISP which was much faster than this and I get same problem.

Hmm... both were 3G or one 3G and one ADSL (or other)?

Yes but different ISPs. Could that be the problem?

I think it would be nice if you show us or you compared just some network diagnostic results. I mean ping, traceroute by ip and by name with VPN connection and without VPN connection. 
It is normal procedure in such cases.

edited: fixed errors

You should post a traceroute both with your VPN and your ISP. This will most likely yield much more useful information and will give much more conclusive results as to if it is the anti-DDoS service or an issue with your VPN

It is an expected result to have timeout errors when attempting to ping the forum's IP address when you are unable to access it

Okay! I will post traceroute tomorrow. ATM I can not do it.

[CIYAM]

Hmm... both were 3G or one 3G and one ADSL (or other)?

Yes but different ISPs. Could that be the problem?

I guess it could indicate an issue with the 3G device's connectivity (maybe it is just losing a lot of packets due to poor signal).

Your VPN software might be using UDP rather than TCP which perhaps could explain why it appears to work better via the VPN (but quite a bit slower I would think if this was the case).

[Muhammed Zakir]

I guess it could indicate an issue with the 3G device's connectivity (maybe it is just losing a lot of packets due to poor signal).

This probably is.

Your VPN software might be using UDP rather than TCP which perhaps could explain why it appears to work better via the VPN (but quite a bit slower I would think if this was the case).

The speed is same. Doesn't look a bit faster or slower.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply! I really appreciate it.

[CIYAM]

The speed is same. Doesn't look a bit faster or slower.

You have checked with pings to be sure about that (as even up to 100 milliseconds might not be noticed if you are just judging by eye)?

Also - I'm not 100% certain but I think that VPNs that use UDP actually tend to run faster than those using TCP (but less reliably of course) so if your VPN doesn't seem slower than going direct then it is perhaps more likely that it is using UDP.

If that is the case it might simply be that your VPNs software "emulation" of TCP via UDP works more reliably than *actual TCP* (so the issue would in that case just be due to the 3G poor quality connection losing packets).

The other possibility is that your country is screwing with your internet (like the Great Chinese Firewall does) which would be the simplest explanation for VPN working more reliably than a direct connection. If that is what your problem is then you really have little choice except to use the VPN or a tunnel.

[irfan_pak10]

Im Also Getting The Same Messages After some Intervals. I cleaned my Cockies and Every thing I dont Know What Is this

[GregH37]

Im Also Getting The Same Messages After some Intervals. I cleaned my Cockies and Every thing I dont Know What Is this

Yeah Im also Getting the Same Problem what Should I Do ?

What error is it reporting? Does it just timeout? Seems like this is a problem on your end. So checking your computer for the things below might be a good idea. There was a recent IP address change, so it might be the protection that theymos is using. They might be blocking your particular ISP or country.


There's a few things to check:

- Clear cookies & cache.
- Are you using HTTP Everywhere? Sometimes, this can mess up and case issues with certain sites, I don't think this is the case for this though.
- Check "hosts" file and alter if needed.
- Flushing the DNS
- Check if your ISP is blocking it

I did This But Getting the same Problem