BFL fucked us over again (redux)

[sbogovac]

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/butterfly-labs-bitcoin-asics-miners-ftc-settlement-scam

I like the original FTC source more: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2016/02/operators-bitcoin-mining-operation-butterfly-labs-agree-settle

Although there is nothing in the court's case docket (yet, Chris?): http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.docket.html

[1713939933]

1713939933

[sbogovac]

[...]If I understand this correctly they pay less $20.000 in this settlement? What are the odds of criminal charges against them? Because this looks like a joke to me so far.

Yes, this is "only" the FTC settlement (which - once compared to the "official" revenues of BFL - is quite severe)...

But that does not mean there will be no criminal charges and/or (both personal and/or corporate) tax/IRS follow-up... 

[Searing]

[...]If I understand this correctly they pay less $20.000 in this settlement? What are the odds of criminal charges against them? Because this looks like a joke to me so far.

Yes, this is "only" the FTC settlement (which - once compared to the "official" revenues of BFL - is quite severe)...

But that does not mean there will be no criminal charges and/or (both personal and/or corporate) tax/IRS follow-up... 

the FTC action I'm afraid will show that they 'are' protected by the corporation ..thus the corporation as a whole was to blame and they can walk.

The whole purpose of a corp for your biz. Hope I am incorrect but how many judgments have you seen with corps/banks in the USA in the last few

years where anyone involved went to jail?

Nope ...at this point in time ...with the info at hand....they got away with it all and their  hidden btc stashes....I"ve no doubt (it is who they are) ;(

Again would like to be convinced otherwise

[sbogovac]

[...]the FTC action I'm afraid will show that they 'are' protected by the corporation ..thus the corporation as a whole was to blame and they can walk. The whole purpose of a corp for your biz. Hope I am incorrect but how many judgments have you seen with corps/banks in the USA in the last few years where anyone involved went to jail? [...]

Well I would argue there's a whole other purpose for incorporating a business, but OK... Here in the Netherlands at least the last couple of years the tendency/standard has been to put the executives on personal liability and disregarding any incorporation the second even a whim of foul play is suspected (let alone the stench coming from this cesspool)... Just yesterday a huge settlement (almost 800M. US$) was announced: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/vimpelcom-pay-795-million-resolve-092215628.html and a principal player has been placed under "house arrest" pending the further investigation and probable criminal charges: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26713383

[...] at this point in time ...with the info at hand....they got away with it all and their  hidden btc stashes....I"ve no doubt (it is who they are) ;( Again would like to be convinced otherwise

You're being over-pessimistic in my view; for starters the settlement (can we say "punishment") can be considered "severe" when we take the legal revenue of BFL into account, second the settlement is already a prelude for this, explicitly stating: "Against Drake, the judgment is $135,878, which will be suspended once she surrenders the cash value of all Bitcoins she obtained using company machines" (and I personally am counting - based on "past actions" that not "all Bitcoins"...), so further more the road is still (way) open for further, both criminal and fiscal, action against both corp. as well as principals...

The fat lady (IMHO) has not sung jet, but boy does she move slooooow...

EDIT: not to mention that this settlement does not exclude (and can therefore be used in) the class-action-lawsuit still pending... I just remembered...

[Snagglebone]

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/butterfly-labs-bitcoin-asics-miners-ftc-settlement-scam

Against Butterfly Labs and Vleisides, the judgment is $38,615,161, which will be suspended upon Butterfly Labs’ payment of $15,000, and Vleisides’ payment of $4,000. Against Drake, the judgment is $135,878, which will be suspended once she surrenders the cash value of all Bitcoins she obtained using company machines.

If I understand this correctly they pay less $20.000 in this settlement? What are the odds of criminal charges against them? Because this looks like a joke to me so far.

if you cant prove a civil case you have no hope of proving a criminal case. the ftc obviously was not confident they could prove a civil case so decided to settle instead of pressing on with only a a 'possibility' of winning and obvioulsy they didnt think the possibility too high or they wouldnt have settled they are the governement afterall they have unlimited resources to throw at it. in the end we are left with nothing and the ftc case drained any hope of getting any money or hardware out of bfl. ummm yay?

[Askit2]

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/butterfly-labs-bitcoin-asics-miners-ftc-settlement-scam

Against Butterfly Labs and Vleisides, the judgment is $38,615,161, which will be suspended upon Butterfly Labs’ payment of $15,000, and Vleisides’ payment of $4,000. Against Drake, the judgment is $135,878, which will be suspended once she surrenders the cash value of all Bitcoins she obtained using company machines.

If I understand this correctly they pay less $20.000 in this settlement? What are the odds of criminal charges against them? Because this looks like a joke to me so far.

if you cant prove a civil case you have no hope of proving a criminal case. the ftc obviously was not confident they could prove a civil case so decided to settle instead of pressing on with only a a 'possibility' of winning and obvioulsy they didnt think the possibility too high or they wouldnt have settled they are the governement afterall they have unlimited resources to throw at it. in the end we are left with nothing and the ftc case drained any hope of getting any money or hardware out of bfl. ummm yay?

Unless Judgment is used incorrectly then there has been a win. The civil case ususally ends with a judgment. Now over 38.5 million in a judgment against them isn't a small amount. Sure the 19K that nearly 25% comes from Vleisides' isn't a total loss. With Drake it seems like they are doing something. I'm not saying its a huge win. I am saying that If people are not throwing judgment around the FTC is playing "Lets Make A Deal" and going for some personal money along with a pittance from the corporate coffers. Maybe it keeps some money for refunds. Maybe if the judgment gets paid the refunds come from that. I wouldn't bet on it but maybe.

Now They may have a better criminal case then a civil case. As near as I can see they have some written mis-use of corporate funds, embezzlement, misreporting income, and also I would bet you could RICO some folks for the Interstate fraud. Maybe I am more cheerful about this case because of the word judgment as it doesn't indicate a hope but an order for those funds to be turned over. The thing is I do still expect based on what seized information we already have seen that there is a case to be made for more then a few criminal infractions. Maybe RICO is over the top. I'm not sure though. I think they have enough to prove a criminal conspiracy to defraud among the management. Heck its not legal to have board of directors members holding all the management positions. That would be what I was able to find. I wish I had a link to the information though. I have a great deal of confidence in the criminal aspects of this case.

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Anyone heard updates about the Woodlaw class action?

[QuestionAuthority]

Anyone heard updates about the Woodlaw class action?

I read somewhere on Reddit that Wood Law firm dropped it because supposedly BFL had no money left (wink, wink) after the FTC finished with them. Since class action attorneys are the first to get paid out of any settlement they dropped the action. So Wood Law had no class and took no action. lol

[noddy2000]

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/butterfly-labs-bitcoin-asics-miners-ftc-settlement-scam

Against Butterfly Labs and Vleisides, the judgment is $38,615,161, which will be suspended upon Butterfly Labs’ payment of $15,000, and Vleisides’ payment of $4,000. Against Drake, the judgment is $135,878, which will be suspended once she surrenders the cash value of all Bitcoins she obtained using company machines.

If I understand this correctly they pay less $20.000 in this settlement? What are the odds of criminal charges against them? Because this looks like a joke to me so far.

JustUs it is my friend, to be p[recise, JustJews lol

'even in a minority of 1 truth is truth!'

And i am right on this one hahahaha

TOLD YA SO! ALL NEVER LISTEN. Dont teach yourselves nothing. Only gleb around here thinks, and questions.

SAD

Start here if you care at all about your life, your children's lives and other people in general!

http://www.amazon.com/Protocols-Learned-Elders-Victor-Marsden/dp/1631821008

or listen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig5sTehZqZA

Prove it wrong lol. if you can't see it, your cognitive disadence and confirmation bias knows no bounds!!!

[CryptoBrother]

Is bfl still a thing?
no one can be buying their shit still, can they?

[sbogovac]

Is bfl still a thing?
no one can be buying their shit still, can they?

Yes, "they" can (it they're "institutional buyers": at their website...)!  

[QuestionAuthority]

Is bfl still a thing?
no one can be buying their shit still, can they?

Yes, "they" can (it they're "institutional buyers": at their website...)!  

You forgot pawn shops and flea markets. Oh, and the used trash section of eBay.

[sbogovac]

Is bfl still a thing?
no one can be buying their shit still, can they?

Yes, "they" can (it they're "institutional buyers": at their website...)!  

You forgot pawn shops and flea markets. Oh, and the used trash section of eBay.

Oh, oh, oh! Wait! You forgot the auctioning off of office furniture/equipment on Craigslist... 

[QuestionAuthority]

Is bfl still a thing?
no one can be buying their shit still, can they?

Yes, "they" can (it they're "institutional buyers": at their website...)!  

You forgot pawn shops and flea markets. Oh, and the used trash section of eBay.

Oh, oh, oh! Wait! You forgot the auctioning off of office furniture/equipment on Craigslist... 

Yep, I've made more money buying and reselling used BFL equipment than I have holding Bitcoin. lol

As far as I'm concerned, BFL was the worlds first discount ASIC manufacturer.

[noddy2000]

Is bfl still a thing?
no one can be buying their shit still, can they?

Yes, "they" can (it they're "institutional buyers": at their website...)!  

You forgot pawn shops and flea markets. Oh, and the used trash section of eBay.

Oh, oh, oh! Wait! You forgot the auctioning off of office furniture/equipment on Craigslist... 

Yep, I've made more money buying and reselling used BFL equipment than I have holding Bitcoin. lol

As far as I'm concerned, BFL was the worlds first discount ASIC manufacturer.

You dont seem to do what your name says! You should rename yourself with immediate effect!

[PuertoLibre]

What a Pity!

[Searing]

What a Pity!

heh


I found this on Ebay a new never used Monarch card for 150 starting bid. Ah ..if it was only 15.00 I'd get it for ASIC scammer art.

But then again they will be available SOON (TM) and within TWO WEEKS (TM) at that price don't ya know.

ebay link

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Butterfly-Labs-BFL-Monarch-Bitcoin-Miner-700-GH-S-w-Bonus-100-Brand-New-/201557755418?hash=item2eedc7461a:g:uSAAAOSwgApXASkt

[sbogovac]

A question for someone knowledgeable/experienced with USA's court proceeding:

Why isn't the case docket still updated with the final documentation? The settlement has been agreed upon a couple of months ago, but the latest upload date in the docket is still at "2015-11-11 20:44:51"...? I can read the most recent (last updated: February 18, 2016) FTC docs here. But still, these are "just" proposed orders...

[QuestionAuthority]

A question for someone knowledgeable/experienced with USA's court proceeding:

Why isn't the case docket still updated with the final documentation? The settlement has been agreed upon a couple of months ago, but the latest upload date in the docket is still at "2015-11-11 20:44:51"...? I can read the most recent (last updated: February 18, 2016) FTC docs here. But still, these are "just" proposed orders...

Our government is just really, really slow to do anything. Example: I was audited by the Irs. They notified me that I was being audited. I had 8 months to submit paperwork in my defense (I took all 8 months to do it). They spent almost a year reviewing my submissions. They fined me a couple grand and I contested it. That took six months. I lost again and they billed me giving me 12 months to pay.  I never did pay anything because I submitted "an offer in compromise" which took another year for them to review and it was accepted. It was finally over about 5 years after it started, they made no money but did spend money on the wasted man hours. The US government is so absurdly fucked.

[sbogovac]

A question for someone knowledgeable/experienced with USA's court proceeding:

Why isn't the case docket still updated with the final documentation? The settlement has been agreed upon a couple of months ago, but the latest upload date in the docket is still at "2015-11-11 20:44:51"...? I can read the most recent (last updated: February 18, 2016) FTC docs here. But still, these are "just" proposed orders...

Our government is just really, really slow to do anything. Example: I was audited by the Irs. They notified me that I was being audited. I had 8 months to submit paperwork in my defense (I took all 8 months to do it). They spent almost a year reviewing my submissions. They fined me a couple grand and I contested it. That took six months. I lost again and they billed me giving me 12 months to pay.  I never did pay anything because I submitted "an offer in compromise" which took another year for them to review and it was accepted. It was finally over about 5 years after it started, they made no money but did spend money on the wasted man hours. The US government is so absurdly fucked.

Ah thanks,

So it's normal "there" too (I just - this month - paid off my Dutch IRS equivalent tax audit for 2011).

OK, let's "wait and see"...