Norway Split: Wall Observer

[Fatman3001]

I whish you lived in Oslo, fatty. Then we could have a beer and talk

I could pm you whenever I'm down there.

[Norway]

I whish you lived in Oslo, fatty. Then we could have a beer and talk

I could pm you whenever I'm down there.

You should! I'm really into this "EDB-penger" shit!

Today, I had a meeting with a VAT specialist from KPMG to remove the extreme norwegian rule to put 25% VAT on the full amount of EVERY transfer between bitcoin and NOK.

I assume you have heard about Sturles great effort to collect money from the community through Lighthouse to pay those shitty, dirty whores from Deloitte in Trondheim.

I'm so upset, I don't have the words! Sturle is the greatest, most up front and steady guy who has been asking norwegian tax authorithys about guidelines regarding NOK/BTC exchanging for several years in many letters, with a passive and weak response.

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

I'm almost as angry as I am drunk right now! But I know one thing:

Deloitte in Norway are actually paying Google for advertising their "services" (read: buttfucking) related to bitcoin. (Try to google "bitcoin" from a norwegian IP).

And some international companies make contact with me because they want to establish bitcoin business in Norway. I'm just the MC of Oslo Bitcoin Meetup (I'm just a party fixer).

But I tell you this: Deloitte is going to burn hard and die together with their bank brothers on my bitcoin barbecue while I laugh my heart out and point at them!!!!!!!

[tomothy]

"And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone."

Sorry, what happened? So they were retained to help facilitate a governmental response on appropriateness of VAT on bitcoin conversions or something similar? Did they fail to deliver? Breach of contract?

[Kupsi]

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

[Norway]

I'm sorry, but I'm not up to speed with what you're talking about. Any links?

The most importent link is this:
(Read the last chapter about "Merverdiavgift")

http://www.skatteetaten.no/no/Radgiver/Rettskilder/Uttalelser/Prinsipputtalelser/Bruk-av-bitcoins--skatte--og-avgiftsmessige-konsekvenser/


If you don't know who Sturle is, I can tell you later. But this is THE BIGGGGEST BITCOIN FIGHT in Norway, making it impossible to do anything for venture capitalists and foreign companies in Norway right now.

This is why Oslo Bitcoin Meetup is in a dark, small pub basement while Norway still is the richest country in the world (per capita).

[tomothy]

Wow 25% mandatory year end tax; that will make the cost of doing business a bit unsavory.

VAT
Turnover of Bitcoin is ordinary taxable supplies of electronic services. Tax Directorate's assessment is that Bitcoins can not be considered as "legal tender" (VAT Act § 3-6 d) and therefore not be considered a exempt "financial service". Bitcoins are classified as "service" (§ 1-3 letter c), namely the "electronic service" (§ 1-3 letter j). Thus, operators add 25 percent VAT on its sales of Bitcoins. Who considered employed, you can read more about here .


In othernews: So what's going on with the market today? We were on a nice down trend but then it seems like we crossed the 15m macd and are now rising steadily? I was promised doom! j/k but no, seriously. Especially in light of weird OKCoin futures snafu, I don't understand what's going on anymore?!

[Norway]

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha 

[Kupsi]

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha 

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

[Fatman3001]

I'm sorry, but I'm not up to speed with what you're talking about. Any links?

The most importent link is this:
(Read the last chapter about "Merverdiavgift")

http://www.skatteetaten.no/no/Radgiver/Rettskilder/Uttalelser/Prinsipputtalelser/Bruk-av-bitcoins--skatte--og-avgiftsmessige-konsekvenser/


If you don't know who Sturle is, I can tell you later. But this is THE BIGGGGEST BITCOIN FIGHT in Norway, making it impossible to do anything for venture capitalists and foreign companies in Norway right now.

This is why Oslo Bitcoin Meetup is in a dark, small pub basement while Norway still is the richest country in the world (per capita).

Norway is too rich to care. It's reflected in the governments attitude to anything non-oil related. I worked for a while trying to establish a conventional data center in Northern Norway, but when every other country is falling over themselves to support and give assurances to attract large entities like CERN, Facebook, Google and Yahoo; Norway doesn't give a....

http://www.tu.no/it/2010/10/19/cern-ville-investere-milliarder-i-norske-fjell-regjeringen-gadd-ikke-svare

Edit: Oil or fishery. I tried to maintain some contact with Innovation Norway, a kind of state owned national development bank/organisation, and after sitting down for 30min explaining to this guy what a data center is he just stared back at me and asked: "Is it comparable to anything in the fishery industry? We mostly deal with them.".

[Norway]

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha 

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he 

[Kupsi]

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha 

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he 

LOL. This wasn't a trial.

[Norway]

I'm sorry, but I'm not up to speed with what you're talking about. Any links?

The most importent link is this:
(Read the last chapter about "Merverdiavgift")

http://www.skatteetaten.no/no/Radgiver/Rettskilder/Uttalelser/Prinsipputtalelser/Bruk-av-bitcoins--skatte--og-avgiftsmessige-konsekvenser/


If you don't know who Sturle is, I can tell you later. But this is THE BIGGGGEST BITCOIN FIGHT in Norway, making it impossible to do anything for venture capitalists and foreign companies in Norway right now.

This is why Oslo Bitcoin Meetup is in a dark, small pub basement while Norway still is the richest country in the world (per capita).

Norway is too rich to care. It's reflected in the governments attitude to anything non-oil related. I worked for a while trying to establish a conventional data center in Northern Norway, but when every other country is falling over themselves to support and give assurances to attract large entities like CERN, Facebook, Google and Yahoo; Norway doesn't give a....

http://www.tu.no/it/2010/10/19/cern-ville-investere-milliarder-i-norske-fjell-regjeringen-gadd-ikke-svare

Edit: Oil or fishery. I tried to maintain some contact with Innovation Norway, a kind of state owned national development bank/organisation, and after sitting down for 30min explaining to this guy what a data center is he just stared back at me and asked: "Is it comparable to anything in the fishery industry? We mostly deal with them.".

Wow, the pics from the mountain batcave is awsome! You have told me before, but hey!!! Stuff could be done there!
I totally agree, if you want money from the Norwegian government, Innovasjon Norge give the money to "kortreist jern"-kjerringer som presser gamle spikre gjennom øret på cruise-turister!

[Norway]

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha 

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he 

LOL. This wasn't a trial.

Seriously, what's your point, Kupsi?

[Kupsi]

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha  

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he  

LOL. This wasn't a trial.

Seriously, what's your point, Kupsi?

Deloitte was paid for "neutral information about what "the book" says", not to take side with Sturle. The laws is the problem, not Deloitte. You want a lawyer to give you bad information/advice because you pay him?

[Norway]

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha  

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he  

LOL. This wasn't a trial.

Seriously, what's your point, Kupsi?

Deloitte was paid for "neutral information about what "the book" says", not to take side with Sturle. The laws is the problem, not Deloitte. You want a lawyer to give you bad information because you pay him?

No. You are wrong. That was never the intention. The current law in Norway, "the book", was made years before bitcoin became an issue. I'm 45, I have been in 3 trials, and I have hired lawyers for different tasks many times. You talk out of your ass, kid. Keep it real.

[Kupsi]

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha  

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he  

LOL. This wasn't a trial.

Seriously, what's your point, Kupsi?

Deloitte was paid for "neutral information about what "the book" says", not to take side with Sturle. The laws is the problem, not Deloitte. You want a lawyer to give you bad information because you pay him?

No. You are wrong. That was never the intention. The current law in Norway, "the book", was made years before bitcoin became an issue. I'm 45, I have been in 3 trials, and I have hired lawyers for different tasks many times. You talk out of your ass, kid. Keep it real.

LOL. What was the intention?

[Norway]

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha  

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he  

LOL. This wasn't a trial.

Seriously, what's your point, Kupsi?

Deloitte was paid for "neutral information about what "the book" says", not to take side with Sturle. The laws is the problem, not Deloitte. You want a lawyer to give you bad information because you pay him?

No. You are wrong. That was never the intention. The current law in Norway, "the book", was made years before bitcoin became an issue. I'm 45, I have been in 3 trials, and I have hired lawyers for different tasks many times. You talk out of your ass, kid. Keep it real.

LOL. What was the intention?

The intention for me and other people in Norway is to remove the 25% VAT on top of EVERY transaction between our local currency (NOK) and bitcoin. It makes it impossible to start a bitcoin-related company in Norway. I'm the organizer of Oslo Bitcoin Meetup, and I understood that this is the biggest problem for bitcoin to thrive in the land of the vikings!

It's best displayed with a picture:

[Kupsi]

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha  

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he  

LOL. This wasn't a trial.

Seriously, what's your point, Kupsi?

Deloitte was paid for "neutral information about what "the book" says", not to take side with Sturle. The laws is the problem, not Deloitte. You want a lawyer to give you bad information because you pay him?

No. You are wrong. That was never the intention. The current law in Norway, "the book", was made years before bitcoin became an issue. I'm 45, I have been in 3 trials, and I have hired lawyers for different tasks many times. You talk out of your ass, kid. Keep it real.

LOL. What was the intention?

The intention for me and other people in Norway is to remove the 25% VAT on top of EVERY transaction between our local currency (NOK) and bitcoin. It makes it impossible to start a bitcoin-related company in Norway. I'm the organizer of Oslo Bitcoin Meetup, and I understood that this is the biggest problem for bitcoin to thrive in the land of the vikings!

This was Sturles intention for hiring Deloitte:

Kort sagt skal Deloitte i Trondheim finne ut om Skattedirektoratet står på tørr grunn når dei definerer Bitcoin som ei mva-pliktig elektronisk fjernleverbar teneste, og hevdar at du må betale mva for heile summen både for pengar du vekslar til bitcoin og for vara du kjøper.

That is "neutral information about what "the book" says". Deloitte can't change the laws of Norway.