Bitcoin -> MasterCard (or any credit card)... who cares?

[matonis]

WHY?

It looks to me like it's how Bitinstant is ultimately going to destroy Western Union.

As long as MasterCard is accepted in the recipient country, and the cards can be used internationaly, it makes it very cheap to transfer purchasing power from people in developed countries to their relatives back home.

Yup, that's one of three main reasons.  With a card that can be loaded using bitcoins, you can add funds to my card.   Or, as competition for remittances, a person can send bitcoins to load funds to the Paycard that he sent to his family.

A second reason this is important.  This becomes an easy to use point-of-sale terminal for a merchant.  BitPay.com offers a very similar service already, but they work with your bank account (e.g., ACH transfer).    This lets the merchant spend the funds wherever Mastercard is accepted and by withdrawing at an ATM.  Faster access to the cash is important to many merchants.  [Use as a point-of-sale terminal assumes that there is some notification to the merchant, such as an SMS text message, each time a payment is received.]

The third reason this is important.  It makes it easier to get by without a bank account.   I can store my wealth in bitcoins, but spend in dollars when that is more convenient or less expensive.

Sure, long term it would be nice to not even do any payment card transactions, and pay for everything using bitcoins but we are a long way from that.  This is like a bridge that helps get from here to there.

+1

[Dusty]

man, I actually can't wait for one of these cards, I use visas as essentially a debit card, and a bitcoin debit card would be PERFECT, its exactly what I need to be able to buy what I want.

Okpay provides debit cards fundable via bitcoins since months.
(the fees are pretty high, though)

[CoinCidental]

man, I actually can't wait for one of these cards, I use visas as essentially a debit card, and a bitcoin debit card would be PERFECT, its exactly what I need to be able to buy what I want.

Okpay provides debit cards fundable via bitcoins since months.
(the fees are pretty high, though)

high fees are a killer for me ,if its too damn expenive to use it
i would just use a another debit or credit card than be penalised
for spending my btc

i even get kick backs for using my regular credit card of a few %
back per month so the BTC version wil hopefully be as cost effective
as a normal debit transcation

should even be cheaper since normal card companies have the charge back risk
and they need to pay staff to sort out unauthorised transcations and reclaiming
from merchants

since BTC transcations are irreversible ,there should be a lot less work for the people at mastercard

[Giulio Prisco]

I think this is VERY cool. The problem with BTC is how to spend them out of the still very limited "BTC accepted" early adopter community. A debit card that can be loaded with BTC and used to pay for things and services in good old meatspace seems the ideal solution at this moment.

[skinturtle]

i think this is very good development, i mean it will make adoption of bitcoin faster.

[joecascio]

Ok, maybe I'm missing something here. If the funds backing this card are bitcoin, does that mean bitpay will convert it into local currency (dollars, for instance) when it's used at a merchant that doesn't know anything about bitcoin? That doesn't sound plausible to me.

By the way, there's also a story circulating that MasterCard has denied that it will issue these cards.

Frankly, I can't see the major credit cards validating bitcoin because it's probably the biggest threat to their hegemony on payment since they were invented.

[Gabi]

Ok, maybe I'm missing something here. If the funds backing this card are bitcoin, does that mean bitpay will convert it into local currency (dollars, for instance) when it's used at a merchant that doesn't know anything about bitcoin? That doesn't sound plausible to me.

It's exactly that. You load the card with bitcoin and when you buy something it work like a normal debit card, the merchant receive dollars/euros/whatelse he is asking. BitInstant receive your bitcoin and exchange them for dollars/euros. Like BitPay.

By the way, there's also a story circulating that MasterCard has denied that it will issue these cards.

Frankly, I can't see the major credit cards validating bitcoin because it's probably the biggest threat to their hegemony on payment since they were invented.

That's true, BitInstant issue the cards, not mastercard  

[matonis]

By the way, there's also a story circulating that MasterCard has denied that it will issue these cards.

Frankly, I can't see the major credit cards validating bitcoin because it's probably the biggest threat to their hegemony on payment since they were invented.

Joe, it would be considered a success for BTC if Mastercard and VISA adopted it as a currency unit among their portfolio of 158+ other national currencies (although that is not what the BitInstant card does). Yes, bitcoin is a long-term threat at the P2P payment level and so is paper cash; however, in bitcoin's role as independent nonpolitical monetary unit, BTC is just another 3-letter currency symbol out there in the world.

See my related comments here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102494.msg1125924#msg1125924

[joecascio]

@matonis So, MC and Visa do currency exchanges automatically? At quite a hefty charge, I'll bet.
How can they do chargebacks, though?

[BadBitcoin (James Sutton)]

i understand the card has a 1000 usd limit
to transfer 1000 on costs 1.5%
a card costs 10 dollars ,do they expire ? will there be a 3 digit ccv code on the back  for online purchaes ?
is there additional fees on taking that $1000 from an atm if you need cash  ?
will visa or AMEX  offer an alternative ?

im excited about it ,i want one providing the charges for using it are not excessive

no idea on the limit, there is absolutely no reason for it to expire since its a debit card, and it should have the CCV code for mastercard purchases.

It should work exactly the same as a prepaid credit card from western union or cash money.

[Gabi]

@matonis So, MC and Visa do currency exchanges automatically? At quite a hefty charge, I'll bet.
How can they do chargebacks, though?

Mastercard never see bitcoin. The BitInstant guys receive your bitcoin, exchange them and put dollars/euros on the card. Then you can use it like any other debit card.

[justusranvier]

Buying bitcoins via cash deposits +  Bitcoin denominated debit card + SatoshiDice = ?

[joecascio]

Mastercard never see bitcoin. The BitInstant guys receive your bitcoin, exchange them and put dollars/euros on the card. Then you can use it like any other debit card.
[/quote]

Ah, but can you load it with dollars and have it exchanged into bitcoin?

[Elwar]

It turns your bitcoin wallet into a bank.

That is well worth it in my book.

[nevafuse]

One of the best things about bitcoin is that it's NOT A FUCKING CREDIT CARD! Let's keep it that way!!

This was my knee jerk reaction as well.  But look at it this way - you don't have to get involved.  Bitcoin is going to be used in a number of ways you disagree with.  Let it be.  Some ideas will flourish, others will flounder.  I can definitely see the benefits for some people who aren't all into the security features of bitcoin.  And as much as it'd be nice to have a bitcoin payment system that takes into account the security features of bitcoin, it is still very early.  Why not piggyback off what exists now to get the ball rolling - especially if it serves some sort of need?  The more people start using bitcoin (in any form), the more leverage we will have later down the road to modify the current system to use more bitcoin features.

[evoorhees]

There may be a lot of frenetic activity about BitInstant offering a bitcoin credit card, but I have to ask, WHY?
Does it make bitcoins any easier to get?
Why do you want to inject the huge security hole credit card numbers present to bitcoin, which is intrinsically immune to payer identity theft?
The only thing you can do with a Bitcoin address is send money TO it. Tying it to credit card lets anyone who steals the card number able to put charges on the account.

One of the best things about bitcoin is that it's NOT A FUCKING CREDIT CARD! Let's keep it that way!!

Sigh.

Does the card make it easier to get bitcoins? No. Does it make it easier to spend bitcoins? YES x1000

When these cards are available, and someone then asks, "well... but what can you spend bitcoins on?" You can now answer, "everything."

Until Bitcoin is ubiquitous and used by everyone everywhere, there is and will be a massive need for moving funds between the normal world and Bitcoin world. This card helps tremendously with one half of that equation (coins -> fiat). And of course, for people like OP who are scared of credit cards, they don't ever have to touch one of these. It's just one more cool option, and frankly I'll be the first customer (I made Charlie promise).

[Piper67]

There may be a lot of frenetic activity about BitInstant offering a bitcoin credit card, but I have to ask, WHY?
Does it make bitcoins any easier to get?
Why do you want to inject the huge security hole credit card numbers present to bitcoin, which is intrinsically immune to payer identity theft?
The only thing you can do with a Bitcoin address is send money TO it. Tying it to credit card lets anyone who steals the card number able to put charges on the account.

One of the best things about bitcoin is that it's NOT A FUCKING CREDIT CARD! Let's keep it that way!!

Sigh.

Does the card make it easier to get bitcoins? No. Does it make it easier to spend bitcoins? YES x1000

When these cards are available, and someone then asks, "well... but what can you spend bitcoins on?" You can now answer, "everything."

Until Bitcoin is ubiquitous and used by everyone everywhere, there is and will be a massive need for moving funds between the normal world and Bitcoin world. This card helps tremendously with one half of that equation (coins -> fiat). And of course, for people like OP who are scared of credit cards, they don't ever have to touch one of these. It's just one more cool option, and frankly I'll be the first customer (I made Charlie promise).

You can go to a store, show the card to the store owner and say "I can pay with this, and you lose the merchant fee, or I can transfer the BTC directly to you and you save yourself the merchant fee".

I agree, I'll be customer number two if I can 

[Rassah]

Here's my example use.
I'm starting a business. Right now I'm keeping my company's cash in Bitcoin, because to get business checking it's: drive to bank + fill out forms + wait a week or two + pay $10 a month per account, while with Bitcoin it's: generate a new BTC address + ... oh wait, done.
I have people working with me scattered all over. While I am near Washington DC, one (possibly two) of them are in California, one in Pennsylvania, and one possibly in Israel. Plus this job will very likely require travel to other currency zones. With these cards, I issue them all a card for business expenses, keep the balance at $0, and if any of them need money for something, I just open up my Bitcoin wallet and send them some BTC. Ten minutes later they can spend it. This also gives me a single central account I can be in complete control of, and a publicly verifiable account (block chain) to verify my own accounting against.

[MaxSan]

This is awesome.

Il certainly be having one. I looked into the OKPAY card but I believe you fund the card with BTC but your balance is held in USD. With this card you fund are held as BTC. As far as im aware anyway.

[dissipate]

Here's my example use.
I'm starting a business. Right now I'm keeping my company's cash in Bitcoin, because to get business checking it's: drive to bank + fill out forms + wait a week or two + pay $10 a month per account, while with Bitcoin it's: generate a new BTC address + ... oh wait, done.
I have people working with me scattered all over. While I am near Washington DC, one (possibly two) of them are in California, one in Pennsylvania, and one possibly in Israel. Plus this job will very likely require travel to other currency zones. With these cards, I issue them all a card for business expenses, keep the balance at $0, and if any of them need money for something, I just open up my Bitcoin wallet and send them some BTC. Ten minutes later they can spend it. This also gives me a single central account I can be in complete control of, and a publicly verifiable account (block chain) to verify my own accounting against.

You keep your businesse's cash in Bitcoin? How the heck do you manage the volatility? When Bitcoin loses half it's value in one day do you tell your employees their paychecks have been cut in half? Pretty ballsy.