Bristol to launch their own currency in September

[lebing]

FUD.

Show me how this is a scam http://www.letslinkuk.net/

And be clear about why you think "bitcoin is often tarred with the same brush".

You have presented no counter argument to the points Ive set out.

You didnt make any valid points in the first place, it was just all incoherent FUD. You dont seem to know how the currencies actually work.

As an example, the issuers of a local currency  (in every case in which I am aware) have nothing to do with the merchants that accept them. Therefore, they have no interest in people "not using" the dollars to "profit". In fact quite the opposite. The entire reason for starting the local currency in the first place is to create a network of local resilience and to have them be exchanged as much as possible. If people don't use them, the only person that loses is the person who spent all of the time putting in the effort to build the currency in the first place.

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[Killerpotleaf]

FUD.

Show me how this is a scam http://www.letslinkuk.net/

And be clear about why you think "bitcoin is often tarred with the same brush".

You have presented no counter argument to the points Ive set out.

You didnt make any valid points in the first place, it was just all incoherent FUD. You dont seem to know how the currencies actually work.

As an example, the issuers of a local currency  (in every case in which I am aware) have nothing to do with the merchants that accept them. Therefore, they have no interest in people "not using" the dollars to "profit". In fact quite the opposite. The entire reason for starting the local currency in the first place is to create a network of local resilience and to have them be exchanged as much as possible. If people don't use them, the only person that loses is the person who spent all of the time putting in the effort to build the currency in the first place.

the issuers gives you this "local currency" in exchange for what?

[lebing]

FUD.

Show me how this is a scam http://www.letslinkuk.net/

And be clear about why you think "bitcoin is often tarred with the same brush".

You have presented no counter argument to the points Ive set out.

You didnt make any valid points in the first place, it was just all incoherent FUD. You dont seem to know how the currencies actually work.

As an example, the issuers of a local currency  (in every case in which I am aware) have nothing to do with the merchants that accept them. Therefore, they have no interest in people "not using" the dollars to "profit". In fact quite the opposite. The entire reason for starting the local currency in the first place is to create a network of local resilience and to have them be exchanged as much as possible. If people don't use them, the only person that loses is the person who spent all of the time putting in the effort to build the currency in the first place.

the issuers gives you this "local currency" in exchange for what?

national currency, usually.

[Killerpotleaf]

FUD.

Show me how this is a scam http://www.letslinkuk.net/

And be clear about why you think "bitcoin is often tarred with the same brush".

You have presented no counter argument to the points Ive set out.

You didnt make any valid points in the first place, it was just all incoherent FUD. You dont seem to know how the currencies actually work.

As an example, the issuers of a local currency  (in every case in which I am aware) have nothing to do with the merchants that accept them. Therefore, they have no interest in people "not using" the dollars to "profit". In fact quite the opposite. The entire reason for starting the local currency in the first place is to create a network of local resilience and to have them be exchanged as much as possible. If people don't use them, the only person that loses is the person who spent all of the time putting in the effort to build the currency in the first place.

the issuers gives you this "local currency" in exchange for what?

national currency, usually.

how does the issuers set the price per unit of the local currency?

also why wouldn't the people just use the national currency... whats the advantage of buying local currency with a national currency?

its starting to sound like Canadian Tire money

[Oinsane1]

the beauty of the internet.. err one of them.. is that when the credit constriction and asset gobbling part o the cycle hit.. we now have growth of alternative currencies instead of despair...

and i a clever enough barter system would arise...  look out vampires

i imagine it causes some consternation among central bankers

[Timo Y]

For hypermobile people like me, it used to be a pain in the ass when every small country in the EU had its own currency.

That's why I was really happy when the Euro came along.  It's a shame the Euro was ruined by flawed monetary and fiscal policy.  But in principle, the idea of having one standardized currency for the whole of Europe was not a bad idea.

I like bitcoins for similar reasons. They have the potential to become the standard currency of the internet.
 
These local currencies seem like a step backwards.  If one currency per country is already a pain in the ass, just imagine the bureaucratic nightmare if every city had it own currency.

[lebing]

FUD.

Show me how this is a scam http://www.letslinkuk.net/

And be clear about why you think "bitcoin is often tarred with the same brush".

You have presented no counter argument to the points Ive set out.

You didnt make any valid points in the first place, it was just all incoherent FUD. You dont seem to know how the currencies actually work.

As an example, the issuers of a local currency  (in every case in which I am aware) have nothing to do with the merchants that accept them. Therefore, they have no interest in people "not using" the dollars to "profit". In fact quite the opposite. The entire reason for starting the local currency in the first place is to create a network of local resilience and to have them be exchanged as much as possible. If people don't use them, the only person that loses is the person who spent all of the time putting in the effort to build the currency in the first place.

the issuers gives you this "local currency" in exchange for what?

national currency, usually.

how does the issuers set the price per unit of the local currency?

also why wouldn't the people just use the national currency... whats the advantage of buying local currency with a national currency?

its starting to sound like Canadian Tire money

Stops what is referred to as "capital flight". Which means that money leaves the local area and ends up in the hands of some (multi) national corporation. This saves jobs, increases local prosperity and increases community resilience.

[DublinBrian]

You have presented no counter argument to the points Ive set out.

You didnt make any valid points in the first place, it was just all incoherent FUD. You dont seem to know how the currencies actually work.

Yes I did. Stop being stupid. Below is two very valid points.

However, theres another reason why people issue them. The issuers are hoping that people will not redeem all the currency notes for goods or fiat, thereby creating a profit for the issuers. Thats one reason why I dont like them. The issuers can enhance this profit mechanism, by putting obstacles in the way of holders from redeeming them. So they put expiry dates on the bills, or they only allow them to be redeemed for fiat in a certain place and time.

The second reason I dont like local or private currencies, is the issuers could issue lots of them, and then go bust, or abscond, making it impossible to redeem them for fiat. That means local merchants will stop accepting them for goods, and they become instantly worthless.

It is an indisputable fact that the currency issuer makes a profit, when he sells printed notes for fiat, and those printed notes are never redeemed for fiat.

[ribuck]

Stops what is referred to as "capital flight". Which means that money leaves the local area and ends up in the hands of some (multi) national corporation. This saves jobs, increases local prosperity and increases community resilience.

There might be a slight "first mover" effect. But if every city has its own currency, it also stops "capital influx" from other areas.

But that's not why most of these currencies succeed or fail. Most of them fail because to the user they are less useful than national currency: "Here, give me one pound that you can spend anywhere in the UK, and I'll give you one pound that you can only spend in Bristol." That's a losing proposition.

[ribuck]

Here's a guide to how the Totnes currency was set up. It covers legal and practical issues, and is quite interesting:
http://transitionculture.org/wp-content/uploads/Lewes-Pound-How-To-Guide.pdf

Here's an overview of some other UK local currencies:
http://quezi.com/11087

[niko]

For hypermobile people like me, it used to be a pain in the ass when every small country in the EU had its own currency.

That's why I was really happy when the Euro came along.  It's a shame the Euro was ruined by flawed monetary and fiscal policy.  But in principle, the idea of having one standardized currency for the whole of Europe was not a bad idea.

I like bitcoins for similar reasons. They have the potential to become the standard currency of the internet.
 
These local currencies seem like a step backwards.  If one currency per country is already a pain in the ass, just imagine the bureaucratic nightmare if every city had it own currency.

Yes. Again, my original point was that, simply, the existance of alternative currencies legitimizes Bitcoin in the minds of the masses, or least diminishes the irrational fears to some extent. In fact, the shortcommings of centrally issued alt currencies make Bitcoin look even more attractive.

[lebing]

Stops what is referred to as "capital flight". Which means that money leaves the local area and ends up in the hands of some (multi) national corporation. This saves jobs, increases local prosperity and increases community resilience.

There might be a slight "first mover" effect. But if every city has its own currency, it also stops "capital influx" from other areas.

But that's not why most of these currencies succeed or fail. Most of them fail because to the user they are less useful than national currency: "Here, give me one pound that you can spend anywhere in the UK, and I'll give you one pound that you can only spend in Bristol." That's a losing proposition.

We are far far away from every city having its own currency. For the last 25 years globalization has been accelerating to an unprecedented scale (with unprecedented consequences). In any case, these local currencies are not just local, they are designed to be complementary, not exclusionary. This means that they function in tandem with a larger (or multiple) currencies which also have their own effect.

It's true that this is why most fail. But in reality it's only a losing proposition if you only care about your personal fungibility and not the strength of the community.

[DublinBrian]

Here's a guide to how the Totnes currency was set up. It covers legal and practical issues, and is quite interesting:
http://transitionculture.org/wp-content/uploads/Lewes-Pound-How-To-Guide.pdf

Thanks for that link Ribuck. To quote from that document about the Lewes pound.

In its Pilot Phase, we opted for a short validity period of 1 year from the launch date (September 2008 - August 2009). This validity period was printed on the notes. While the trade in ‘old’ Lewes Pounds diminished towards the last quarter of that year, this problem was minimised as we introduced the new issue in early July. Furthermore, given the huge interest in the Lewes Pound since its launch - it was the largest currency launch in the UK over 100 years -, we were confident that there would be substantial leakage, which allowed us to finance the second phase.
While the leakage Lewes experienced was probably higher than average, it is not uncommon for community currencies to experience a leakage of 25% of the notes issued, which helps fund future initiatives.

This is proof that the issuers sell these currency notes for fiat, with the expectation that a portion of them will never be redeemed. They claim that the profits are used to "fund future initiatives". Which is leftwing speak for "pays for the organisers wages/profits"

[DublinBrian]

From the Lewes pound document
http://transitionculture.org/wp-content/uploads/Lewes-Pound-How-To-Guide.pdf

Our original intention was to levy a 5% redemption fee to offset the contributions to the fund. However, this was met by substantial resistance from local traders, which resulted in us agreeing to drop the redemption fee. The Live Lewes Fund will continue to receive contributions from the Lewes Pound, which will be funded by leakage rather than a redemption fee.

See, thats proof that the issuers of local currencies discourage people from redeeming the notes, with the intention to generate revenue/profit for themselves.

This is why people are suspicious of alt currencies. And Bitcoin gets tarred with the brush of these local currency scams. Its really difficult to explain to people that bitcoin is not like a typical local currency scheme.

[iCEBREAKER]

One Briscoin should be pegged to one day's worth of parking in a local driveway.  Two Briscoins for downtown car parks.

[niko]

One Briscoin should be pegged to one day's worth of parking in a local driveway.  Two Briscoins for downtown car parks.

The more I think about this idea, the more I like it.

[Deafboy]

After reading the article, I must say - This seems to be really useless. People will eventually lose on exchange fees without any advantages as compensation. At first I thought it would be more like Greek TEM.