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Author Topic: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade  (Read 168907 times)
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May 11, 2015, 01:11:15 AM
 #201

There are now only 2 days left in the auction. You can bid by sending a BitMessage or email to the contact information specified in the original post.
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May 11, 2015, 05:55:54 AM
 #202

Anyone following cryptocurrency for as long as I have knows there is no shortage of brilliant minds taking part in this social leap.  Unfortunately, there are also plenty of thieves, con artists, and dreamers distracting from the true advances in Bitcoin’s evolution.  At this point, anyone with financial skin in the game should be leery of investing in undelivered promises.

The Peercoin track of development stands out in my mind as a veritable leader in innovation, foresight, and meticulous deployment.  Jordan Lee, sigmike, and erasmospunk have proven talent in advancing the ground-breaking work of Sunny King.  If you haven’t taken the time to evaluate the opportunities in Peershares and NuBits you haven’t performed due diligence in the industry and shouldn’t be investing in cryptocurrencies.

Jordan Lee has demonstrated himself capable not only of professional development but of true commitment to solving the fundamental roadblocks in world-wide adoption of decentralized finance.  Instead of pumping a trend for a quick buck, Jordan has joined Sunny King in constructing a legacy for our children that is both fair and resilient.  What other examples in history do we have of true intellectual treasure being openly distributed into the hands of the community?

Having solved volatility and liquidity in NuBits, Jordan and his team are moving ahead to cure the other black eye of Bitcoin - centralized exchanges.  As one of many who have suffered great losses through exchange collapse, I cannot be more certain that this is the vital next advance the democratization of money.  Personally, my cryptocurrency assets are out of the economy until something like B&C exchange is up and running.

In my mind, the tradition of security and fairness that lives on with Peercoin carries through to this auction.  It’s hard to imagine a less risky investment in the cryptocurrency space simply because one has here the opportunity to bid on a proven asset at possibly below market value.  Although I have no doubt about the capacity of Jordan, Sigmike, and erasmospunk to deliver on their promises, a winning bid in this auction immediately conveys value through the direct ownership of the NuShares.  Aquiring NuShares though this bid may be your last opportunity to build a sizable stake in the Nu network irrespective of the eventual success of B&C.

If, for some reason, you maintain no interest in a long-term investment in NuShares you should at least take heed of the success of NuBits over the past 9 months in upholding 1:1 USD parity against extremely deep volume through periods of extremely rapid BTC/USD volatility.  Jordan Lee promised a stable cryptocurrency, and he delivered on schedule.  Furthermore, he continues to demonstrate his perseverance in accepting criticism, learning from mistakes, and building the future as a full team effort with some of the leading innovators in cryptocurrency.  Bidding on NuShares through this auction is your opportunity to enable the freedom of us all -for the first time in modern history- to store wealth and engage in commerce liberated from centralized power.

If you own Bitcoin, you should be bidding on this proposal.
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May 11, 2015, 07:30:56 AM
 #203

Will B&C exchange be decntralized?  Like will FINCEN be able to shut it down or will it be like bittorent decentralized?

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masterOfDisaster
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May 11, 2015, 07:56:38 AM
 #204

Will B&C exchange be decntralized?  Like will FINCEN be able to shut it down or will it be like bittorent decentralized?

My understanding of the design leads to conclusion that there's no single point of centralization at B&C.

There will be websites that offer convenient access to the block chain and messages to it - e.g. to place orders in a way that people are familiar with from centralized exchanges.
But anybody is able to host such a website. In case websites are taken down, new ones will come up.

And the signing of transactions is completely decentralized as well.
There's no service provided by a domain name or an IP address that can be traced back.
The signers are expected to run the signing bots using TOR, VPN or proxies (because of security reasons).
So once again no centralized point of attack.
And the only reason why the work of the signers isn't completely automated and requires a little human interaction is the key management (backup of private keys) - I mean, you can't store the private keys of the signers in the B&C block chain and expect that nothing bad happens, right? Wink

Anything else runs on a distributed block chain.

Attacking the owners of B&C will be hard as well.
Neither B&C nor its shareholders need to register anywhere for the whole DAC to work.
From voting to the payout of dividends - all runs on block chains.
This is the beauty of DACs that are based on the Peershares template - which will be the case for B&C, because it will be forked from Nu, which was built upon the Peershares template - you need no connection to any real world identity; everything is just about cryptography and signatures Wink
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May 11, 2015, 12:01:51 PM
 #205

tks @jordanlee for your answer.


My vision for b&c is that if it is successful, b&c will become the first decentralized stocks market place in the world.
Imagine the revolution.
On b&c not only btc and other crypto-currencies will be traded but also any crypto-assets that are "Satoshi-based."
I have of course in mind all the crypto-shares that based on peershares' blueprint.
Not only we can imagine that nushares will be traded on b&c, but also its own shares, b&c shares, and any shares that belong to any DAOs.
The consequence of that is that b&c could spark a revolution in the IPO funding of any business.
A business that needs to raise funds will create its own peershares blockchain and then go IPO from day one and float its shares on b&c.
Also, as @jordanlee envisions it, it seems natural that nubits will be used to get in and out of the market...as a synthetic dollar as you use dollars to buy google stocks and sell them for dollars...
The near future is bright.
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May 11, 2015, 03:38:46 PM
 #206

Just in case anyone here is hesitant to bid because you're unfamiliar with Nu, I spent several days putting together an entire history of the Nu Network. I included all the major events and tried to show the evolution of our design and shareholder voting over the last 7 months. Hopefully this will be able to catch you up to the point where you feel comfortable bidding on shares. I still need to add some things to the history to make it more complete, but I think this is a very good first draft. Enjoy...

https://discuss.nubits.com/t/history-of-the-nu-network-feedback-please/2088
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May 11, 2015, 08:02:22 PM
 #207


There will be websites that offer convenient access to the block chain and messages to it - e.g. to place orders in a way that people are familiar with from centralized exchanges.
But anybody is able to host such a website. In case websites are taken down, new ones will come up.


This is correct, but I wanted to clarify that if websites disappear nothing is lost because the websites don't hold any customer data or funds. That is all completely held on blockchain.

Account login only requires a BlockCredit private key. The website is just a user interface for the blockchain, and no other database is used. So, if the website you use disappears, you can use the same login credentials at any other site or in the desktop client.

Bitmessage: BM-2cXS5ezep1jUqeu8CwC6M4aTmMSxcFEHNN
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May 12, 2015, 12:04:47 AM
 #208

It is now the final day of the auction. As a reminder, there will be no extensions of the auction deadline. If you would like to secure NuShares (and BlockShares) please place a bid as soon as possible.
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May 12, 2015, 10:33:07 AM
 #209

What's your opinion about open transaction? It seems OT can do anything b&c can do.

I am a F. A. Hayek fan.
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May 12, 2015, 12:37:58 PM
 #210

This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.


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May 12, 2015, 06:40:08 PM
 #211

This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.

And you're not tired of the ads spam and paid articles that many other coins use?

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May 12, 2015, 07:53:08 PM
 #212

This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.

We do have a rather zealous community member who posts a lot of things there, I wouldn't let that sour your opinion of Nu overall.
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May 12, 2015, 08:13:43 PM
 #213

This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.

We do have a rather zealous community member who posts a lot of things there, I wouldn't let that sour your opinion of Nu overall.

Are you talking about Crypto_Coiner? Maybe we should ask him if he could slow down on the postings. Honestly, I think only major news should be posted there. NuShares for NuBits burning, opening of liquidity pools, B&C exchange announcement, etc... Sometimes I see him posting random threads that don't really seem to be that important.
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May 12, 2015, 08:15:18 PM
 #214

This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.

We do have a rather zealous community member who posts a lot of things there, I wouldn't let that sour your opinion of Nu overall.

Are you talking about Crypto_Coiner? Maybe we should ask him if he could slow down on the postings. Honestly, I think only major news should be posted there. NuShares for NuBits burning, opening of liquidity pools, B&C exchange announcement, etc... Sometimes I see him posting random threads that don't really seem to be that important.

Yes, I was referring to him.
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May 12, 2015, 08:17:04 PM
 #215

Thumbs up, I've been around with the Nu network just before their launch, I had the pleasure of dealing with numerous Nu community members, from watchers, through backers to devs, on various levels, from chat to business. I'm glad to see further developments from your side, your effort and work is superb.

ALTAGE Your Financial Freedom www.altage.net SWARM-POWERED DCO
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May 12, 2015, 08:20:06 PM
 #216

This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.
If you are tired so easily, I kindly recommend you get some rest Wink

Out of curiosity - what is that NuTeam, you are speaking of?
Please don't take a part for the whole...
...but after all - isn't the cryptocurrency section for cryptocurrency related topics; which applies to Nu?
There's much development going on at Nu. That might be the reason for a lot of posts...
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May 12, 2015, 09:38:15 PM
 #217

This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.

We do have a rather zealous community member who posts a lot of things there, I wouldn't let that sour your opinion of Nu overall.

Are you talking about Crypto_Coiner? Maybe we should ask him if he could slow down on the postings. Honestly, I think only major news should be posted there. NuShares for NuBits burning, opening of liquidity pools, B&C exchange announcement, etc... Sometimes I see him posting random threads that don't really seem to be that important.


That would actually be excellent. I have no issues with the Nu community overall, but lets just say that overposting there is what killed reddcoin in the eyes of many. I enjoy reading about interesting updates and milestones for any cryptocurrency, but if I want daily updates I'll subscribe to r/NuBits.

I wish you all luck in your project.


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May 12, 2015, 10:02:05 PM
 #218

For those worried about the scalability of the design, remember that this design is not set in stone. It's merely a starting point. Using voting and motions, shareholders will be able to alter the design over time to improve it and make it faster. Here is something I read on the Peercointalk chat box...

Quote
pillow: I still believe that Open Transactions is _SUPERIOR_ to B&C way of doing it... _but_ my bet is that B&C will morph into Open Transaction like style
pillow: both etherum and b&C has latency issues... thats not good. also both doesn't scale really
NewMoneyEra: Ethereum testnet is running 12 second blocktimes: http://stats.ethdev.com/
NewMoneyEra: Scalability is a big concern as Vitalik wrote 3 blog posts on it. frankly, it is over my head with merkle trees and the like. I do remember top guys saying a critical component was the need to successfully break the link that every node had to run every program, which I think they have not solved yet
masterOfDisaster: one advantage of b&c compared to ethereum is that it's quite easy to get the basic function of it - at least for those who know the basics of block chains
pillow: 12 seconds is very slow. I don't think it will work for a proper exchange. We need at least milliseconds, preferably much much faster. the only limit, basically, should be the time it takes for computer to communicate, which would still be too slow to compete with centralized exchanges
pillow: so basically, no blockchain should be used for order matching etc.
mably: certainly not fitted for high frequency trading Wink
pillow: the thing is because of voting mechanism in B&C I think it will morph into such a system
pillow: mably yes exactly. if the decentralized exchange is lagging behind, people will prefer centralized exchanges
pillow: "liquidity begets liquidity" so... the bid ask will make B&C traders very expensice. the network needs to be fast enough for arbitraging bots to provide liqudity
pillow: basically what I envision is an Open Transaction like thing, where voting pools sign richardian contracts and trades are settled when people withdraw etc.
mably: Yep will probably be better suited
pillow: using B&C there would now, I envision, be a way to "discover" voting pools and ensure that they are good
mably: I'm a big fan of the KISS principle
mably: yep why not, that's an idea
masterOfDisaster: at least b&c is a big step into the right direction. the details of the inner works of the exchange can be altered by owners will. just have a look how fundamentally nu was improved!
pillow: yes yes exactly,
masterOfDisaster: whatever is promising better for customers (and can be afforded) has a good chance to let a corresponding motion pass ;-) b&c doesn't need to be perfect from the start; it can be tailored afterwards. in case something isn't compatible with the design, it can still be forked. high-speed trading not compatible with b&c design? let's fork "b&c turbo edition" - if you know what I mean ;-)
pillow: yes yes
pillow: after reading sents' recap/history of nu thread, I realized how powerful the motions/voting concept is. not only does it work, but it creates a real focused community
pillow: while I think the basic B&C design is not competitable enough, I think it will be improved when people with idea of how to fix it joins in
pillow: my dream would be a B&C network that maintains and ensure operations, voting pools connected running exchanges and discovery process of these exchanges via the B&C network. this entire thing would then be wrapped and exposed in simple Android apps and super simple WebApps
pillow: the B&C blockchain would be super lite, because it will only contain a few normal shares/coins transactions, the voting and voting pool "end points"
masterOfDisaster: sometimes it's about being first - in this case the first very low trust decentralized dac that offers exchange services!
pillow: yes indeed
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May 12, 2015, 10:47:45 PM
 #219

For those worried about the scalability of the design, remember that this design is not set in stone. It's merely a starting point. Using voting and motions, shareholders will be able to alter the design over time to improve it and make it faster. Here is something I read on the Peercointalk chat box...

Quote
pillow: I still believe that Open Transactions is _SUPERIOR_ to B&C way of doing it... _but_ my bet is that B&C will morph into Open Transaction like style

Open Transactions has been in development for four years. This is an indication that it is not simple, and it is difficult to know how much longer it will take to complete, if it is ever completed.

My design is intended to be as simple and reliable as possible. It isn't the fastest approach (in terms of settlement time) and it uses more resources than some proposed solutions. However, I am confident it can be delivered more quickly and for less money than the alternatives. The iterative approach I am employing has been proven more likely to succeed than large ambitious projects full of complexity and uncertainty. It is worth noting the more complicated solutions haven't been delivered yet.

Sentinelrv is certainly correct that B&C Exchange will be iteratively developed for as long as there is funding to do so. Take a look at this relevant section from the design paper:

Quote
Future optimizations

Some observers may have concerns about the scalability of the solution. The initial design can scale to handle approximately 10 orders per second, along with all the other transactions needed to support orders. There are many changes that can be made in the future to improve scalability. They require additional development, so it doesn't make sense economically to implement them at this time. As network latency reduces over time due to hardware improvements block intervals can be collapsed, validation messages can be merely broadcast but not placed on the blockchain, a derivative of Cryptonite's mini-blockchain can be employed, delegates can be employed, etc. The solution proposed here can be evolved to scale far beyond 10 orders per second.

The initial version of B&C Exchange is in a sense just another iteration of earlier work. First the team and I developed the Peershare template. Once it was proven to work in on a public test network, we created the Nu network. B&C Exchange will be built on that code base and use most of the features of NuShares and NuBits. It is just another iteration. As such, I am confident it can be delivered. I wouldn't want to have to deliver Ethereum or Open Transactions, by the way. I'm just not at all confident I could do it. B&C Exchange is a much more modest proposal.

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May 13, 2015, 12:44:30 AM
 #220

Here are the auction results:

Total funds pledged: $137,074.52
Number of bidders: 24
Total NuShares bid for: 66,233,829
Average bid value: $5,711.44


The auction generated a considerable amount of interest but failed to reach $200,000 US in bids. Accordingly, no funds have been or will be accepted, and no NuShares (NSR) have been or will be sold.

The feedback we received indicated a few things:

1) Some prospective bidders said that they were solely interested in BlockShares and not NuShares. As such, the requirement to hold NuShares until the BlockShares network was created was seen as inconvenient and not aligned with their interests.
2) The number of shares (hundreds of millions) is difficult to comprehend, as was the bid price that was fractions of a penny.

We are proposing to pursue a new route of fundraising that will solve these issues and allow B&C Exchange to be developed. Everyone will hopefully find this new approach much simpler.

To address point #1: We now plan on creating the BlockShares chain shortly after the beginning of development, and selling 50% of all BlockShares in this announcement thread. This approach will be similar to the one taken by BitShares, where tokens (BlockShares) will be sold and development will occur on the production blockchain. All BlockCredit transactions will be disabled until development is complete. This means you can buy, hold and trade your own BlockShares within 30 days after making payment for them without the need to hold NuShares first.

To address point #2: the decimal place will be shifted four places to the right for BlockShares, which means approximately 80,000 will be sold and 80,000 will be given to NuShare holders. This will give them an initial value of around 5 USD.


New Structure of BlockShares Sales:

Total BlockShares supply: Approximately 162,000 BKS
- Approximately 80,000 BKS (about 50% of the BlockShares) will be sold here.
- Approximately 80,000 BKS will be held by NuShare holders who own NSR at the initial fork date. The Nu network will be granted about 50% of all BKS to encourage active involvement with B&C Exchange. Liquidity is the lifeblood of an exchange and B&C Exchange will benefit from Nu’s liquidity providers. We say “approximately” 80,000 BKS here because proof-of-stake rewards will have likely inflated the amount to between 81,000 and 82,000 BKS when the fork occurs.
- 2,000 BKS will be given to Bitcoin holders as per the design document’s original specified proportion.


We are proposing selling BlockShares in the following manner:

First ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25%) are available for $5.00 US each.
Second ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25%) are available for $5.10 US each.
Third ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25%) are available for $5.20 US each.
Final ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25%) are available for $5.30 US each.

TOTAL: 80,000 BKS for an average price of $5.15 each.


As well, the following rules apply:


- Minimum total purchase is 500 USD.
- Purchasers will be kept confidential.
- Multiple purchases are allowed, but only up to a maximum of 10,000 BKS in total across all purchases.
- A valid purchase will contain three elements: a quantity of BlockShares, the asset type you will pay with (BTC, LTC, PPC or NBT), and finally a cryptocurrency forum username (bitcointalk, discuss.nubits.com, or others) that is a minimum of one week old as of the date of this new announcement.
- The price of BTC will be set on the day a purchase request is made using the Bitfinex BTC/USD market price. LTC and PPC, being less liquid and subject to price manipulation, will be priced as the average of the BTC-e LTC/USD and PPC/USD price 48 hours before a purchase request is made, 24 hours before a purchase request is made and at the time the purchase request is made. NBT will be priced at 1.00 USD per NBT.
- Purchasers should have the funds to settle immediately.
As with the previous auction, we will make no promises about the future value of BlockShares.
No funds will be collected until $200,000 US worth of BlockShares are requested for purchase. This is the minimum amount of funds required to build B&C Exchange. After this threshold is reached, sales will continue until all $412,000 US worth of BlockShares are sold, or until BlockShares holders vote to burn (destroy) all unsold BlockShares.

This approach will hopefully make participation in B&C Exchange easier. You would now only be purchasing BlockShares at a fixed price. There are no NuShares sales or reserve prices any more.

This is a draft plan presented for public comment and revision and should not be viewed as commitment to a course of action. Hopefully the plan can be finalized in a few days, at which time bids for BlockShares will begin to be accepted. The total quantity bid for and paid for will be presented in this thread approximately daily.

We welcome comments, questions, complaints and suggestions for changes during this comment period.
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