Why is NXT not the number 2 coin?

[inBitweTrust]

Dying? Based on what? Coin market cap? The network is PoS and tokens change hands much slower than PoW, the network is secure and will remain secure even if things slow down even further. You seem to compare everything to BTC and only that - yes, BTC is ahead, but it doesn't and won't do all the things other platforms are going to do in the future. This won't be a zero sum game.  

You don't seem close enough to the NXT ecosystem to realize that things are happening outside of crypto and outside of the purview of this forum. For NXT, it is barely past year 1, calm yourself. The pace is extremely fast and impressive when you really think about it. Where are your "numbers proving death"

Sometimes I wonder, if you (and people like you) weren't invested in BTC and worried about your own investment, would you write the things you write? How much of this is pure self-defense?  

I don't own many bitcoins and only started investing in 2013, but of course I am biased towards Bitcoin. I mined Litecoin early on and was a supporter of litecoin/namecoin ... some other alts interest me like primecoin, curecoin, and ethereum. I am not a bitcoin maximalist or die hard PoW proponent. If you read my post history I have advocated for hybrid algo approaches of TaPoS/PoW.

The numbers I speak about do include coin market cap, but also include many other variables like search interest, traffic, and the fierce competition that is coming NxT's direction from other projects. I do agree that NxT has done nicely compared to most alts in such a short amount of time. This isn't going to be good enough when you have thousands of developers working on bitcoin and over 675 million in VC funding backing the development. This is an insurmountable problem Nxt and other cryptocurrencies are facing. I don't believe NXT is going anywhere any time soon, but will continue to slowly capitulate as it has over the last year. Expect some more corporate coins and ethereum to overtake the mindshare above Nxt in the coming 2 years or perhaps some govcoin being introduced. Alts are here to stay but are likely to remain fringe interests with small communities and many popping into existence overtaking older ones.  

Paycoin was one of the first corporate coins being foisted upon the ecosystem by a multimillion dollar company. This turned out to be a scamcoin , but imagine what happens when amazon/IBM/Microsoft/ect... release their coins? They are working on them right now and may even give bitcoin a run for its money and topple it from the top. Do you really think one of these companies will waste their time with buying up all the tokens off NxT bagholders when they can simply take Nxt's code , Bitcoin code, and build off it?

[rtrtcrypto]

How many BTC do you own and how significant is that to your total net worth? Can you just answer that so we can stop this conversation after seeing the real motive(s) behind your position?

As to your last point,

The "poor" Chinese who are setting up million dollar farms? Mining BTC is directly related to how much capital you have to invest in mining - any other positive factors in your favor will be down to luck related factors (cost of labor in your location, cost of electricity, etc).
I like BTC a lot, I bet on BTC as well, but I'm not afraid of other protocols. In the case of NXT, I welcome a protocol trying to do something worthwhile that can extend the crypto space and its utility.

Your problem is that you keep rambling on with "educated guesses" and "estimations"...
 

BTC would be great if it wasn't centralized and its security wasn't dominated by the mining conglomerates instead of the currency holders

This is a fair criticism of Bitcoin but one that can possibly be overcome with solutions like the Lightning Protocol, ASIC appliances, and other algorithms being introduced to change the incentives. There some core developers who even think PoW should be migrated away from, others think a hybrid approach can be adopted, others believe that the laws of thermodynamics  and economics will naturally solve the mining centralization dilemma.

You are assuming that BCNext was a liar, cheater and thief.  Imo, from what I have read, inquired and experienced this was not the case.  I'd like anyone who believes otherwise to run a taint analysis on the NXT funding address.  I think it is pretty obvious that BCNext was an idealist and not out to make as much money as possible by scamming others because he limited donations to 21 BTC.

You are straw manning my position and I made such a claim. If I were to make an educated guess I would suggest that BCNext and a few other developers/partners decided to spread multiple investments across several accounts for multiple reasons. Protecting their privacy and insuring the best chance of success of their project they believed in. Humans can rationalize certain behaviors and believe they are doing the right thing at the same time.  Additionally, all it would take is one of the early partners /devs to create a bunch of shill investment accounts, who suggested it had to be BCNext ?

Your belief of mining being more "fair" than a crowdsale is imo not accurate.  With mining a currency, you are simply abstracting the crowdsale from the coin and sending your money to the hardware manufacturers and electricity providers.  That doesn't make it more "fair".  There will always be people with more money who can purchase more mining hardware and pay a larger electric bill.

By wasting resources on hardware and electricity you can make it very difficult for a few people to corner the market. It is no longer just about who has the most capital to buy the hardware and electricity but who can develop the fastest chips, who can cool the chips the best, who can find the cheapest space , who can contract the best support staff to maintain the hardware, who can source the cheapest electricity(notice all those poor chinese mining Bitcoin... why isn't all mining centralized in the US where most early bitcoin users came from and all the money is located?)

[rtrtcrypto]

Ok, let's leave it at that then...

We will watch the space and see what develops. I am interested in Ethereum as well, I am not here to protect any one pet project/coin. I think you are not appreciating just how much of an advantage NXT has at this point - you will appreciate this more as other projects try to launch and DO launch. There are many problems ahead for the entire space, it will be a pain to grow through this - staying alive and having code that doesn't blow up on you will be HUGE. NXT has shown that it is stable and functions as intended. As time passes, I think this will become a bigger and bigger deal.

Dying? Based on what? Coin market cap? The network is PoS and tokens change hands much slower than PoW, the network is secure and will remain secure even if things slow down even further. You seem to compare everything to BTC and only that - yes, BTC is ahead, but it doesn't and won't do all the things other platforms are going to do in the future. This won't be a zero sum game.  

You don't seem close enough to the NXT ecosystem to realize that things are happening outside of crypto and outside of the purview of this forum. For NXT, it is barely past year 1, calm yourself. The pace is extremely fast and impressive when you really think about it. Where are your "numbers proving death"

Sometimes I wonder, if you (and people like you) weren't invested in BTC and worried about your own investment, would you write the things you write? How much of this is pure self-defense?  

I don't own many bitcoins and only started investing in 2013, but of course I am biased towards Bitcoin. I mined Litecoin early on and was a supporter of litecoin/namecoin ... some other alts interest me like primecoin, curecoin, and ethereum. I am not a bitcoin maximalist or die hard PoW proponent. If you read my post history I have advocated for hybrid algo approaches of TaPoS/PoW.

The numbers I speak about do include coin market cap, but also include many other variables like search interest, traffic, and the fierce competition that is coming NxT's direction from other projects. I do agree that NxT has done nicely compared to most alts in such a short amount of time. This isn't going to be good enough when you have thousands of developers working on bitcoin and over 675 million in VC funding backing the development. This is an insurmountable problem Nxt and other cryptocurrencies are facing. I don't believe NXT is going anywhere any time soon, but will continue to slowly capitulate as it has over the last year. Expect some more corporate coins and ethereum to overtake the mindshare above Nxt in the coming 2 years or perhaps some govcoin being introduced. Alts are here to stay but are likely to remain fringe interests with small communities and many popping into existence overtaking older ones.  

Paycoin was one of the first corporate coins being foisted upon the ecosystem by a multimillion dollar company. This turned out to be a scamcoin , but imagine what happens when amazon/IBM/Microsoft/ect... release their coins? They are working on them right now and may even give bitcoin a run for its money and topple it from the top. Do you really think one of these companies will waste their time with buying up all the tokens off NxT bagholders when they can simply take Nxt's code , Bitcoin code, and build off it?

[inBitweTrust]

How many BTC do you own and how significant is that to your total net worth? Can you just answer that so we can stop this conversation after seeing the real motive(s) behind your position?

Not many BTC ... and my Bitcoin savings makes less than 1% of my total assets. I am more interesting in Bitcoin for political and philosophical reasons than investment ones.

Your problem is that you keep rambling on with "educated guesses" and "estimations"...

I'm citing facts, providing evidence, and qualifying my statements. One has to be careful when dealing with the murky world of pseudonymous blockchains and untested ideas.

NXT has shown that it is stable and functions as intended. As time passes, I think this will become a bigger and bigger deal.

I believe you are grossly underestimating the threats and competition in this marketspace. We haven;t even begun to see what a well oiled marketing machine from a large respected company or group of companies can do in the crypto currency space. There are already a consortium of technology companies hiring fintech devs and other technologists. They have the distribution channels , have the branding, and make the hardware.

[rtrtcrypto]

Ok, then let's expand on these points:

Who are the large players? IBM and Samsung? Teaming up with Ethereum? 21 and Qualcomm. Who else? I want in on that too. So, which companies that are still in semi stealth mode? Which private companies do you have in mind?

My goal is to have a piece of it all, where possible.

How many BTC do you own and how significant is that to your total net worth? Can you just answer that so we can stop this conversation after seeing the real motive(s) behind your position?

Not many BTC ... and my Bitcoin savings makes less than 1% of my total assets. I am more interesting in Bitcoin for political and philosophical reasons than investment ones.

Your problem is that you keep rambling on with "educated guesses" and "estimations"...

I'm citing facts, providing evidence, and qualifying my statements. One has to be careful when dealing with the murky world of pseudonymous blockchains and untested ideas.

NXT has shown that it is stable and functions as intended. As time passes, I think this will become a bigger and bigger deal.

I believe you are grossly underestimating the threats and competition in this marketspace. We haven;t even begun to see what a well oiled marketing machine from a large respected company or group of companies can do in the crypto currency space. There are already a consortium of technology companies hiring fintech devs and other technologists. They have the distribution channels , have the branding, and make the hardware.

[inBitweTrust]

Ok, then let's expand on these points:

Who are the large players? IBM and Samsung? Teaming up with Ethereum? 21 and Qualcomm. Who else? I want in on that too. So, which companies that are still in semi stealth mode? Which private companies do you have in mind?

My goal is to have a piece of it all, where possible.

From a strategic perspective it may be a good idea to spread some investments around if you are just interesting in making money.  As I said before , profit is a secondary motivation for me. Nxt wouldn't IMHO be a wise investment however because you can expect bag holders selling off coins to exceed adoption, especially because there are so many "shiny new toys" coming out.

 IBM , samsung , Cisco, GE, Microsoft, Google, Amazon,Qualcomm ,  Skyworks Solutions are a few examples that are investing millions into their own future tokens. Additionally, expect some financial companies to roll out some new products and possibly a government coin or other black swan events.

NxT and other alts will look like jokes compared to what is going to be introduced. Bitcoin may be toppled but has a good chance of hanging on as a fringe collectors coin , or anarchist coin , or the defacto alt when one needs to launder money or buy illegal items through decentralized marketplaces. Yes, I am saying that right ... bitcoin may become an "alt".

[habraken]

NxT and other alts will look like jokes compared to what is going to be introduced. Bitcoin may be toppled but has a good chance of hanging on as a fringe collectors coin , or anarchist coin , or the defacto alt when one needs to launder money or buy illegal items through decentralized marketplaces. Yes, I am saying that right ... bitcoin may become an "alt".

!

You're funny.

[rtrtcrypto]

I don't share in your vision, I don't think centralized coins will be able to capture this space in the manner you envision it. Consider the size of the BTC network - no company can compete with something that large, period. So, they have to convince people to jump over to their corporate coin - I think you can do that to a certain degree, but, I envision other serious problems for these large centralized systems.

I think IBM and Qualcomm will benefit a lot from BTC and Ethereum and other decentralized protocols - but I don't think they can centralize those mechanisms and have them scale as intended.

I think Amazon and Google should be very worried, in fact, I think these open protocols are going to destroy their profits in cloud computing. Consider Amazon went up 15%+ yesterday on good news regarding their cloud services and its future - that future in my estimation is BLEAK. BTC like protocols are going to DESTROY that revenue stream.

The music industry is much more powerful than joe schmoe, but, they got railroaded by decentralized file sharing. Why didn't they just throw their money and influence at that problem and win the day? Much as you are suggesting other companies will do in this space?

This is such a shift, companies are going to have a hard time keeping up with decentralized systems - their shareholders won't allow them to jump into the space fast enough. THEY have to piggyback onto these open protocols to enter the space - not the other way around.

 

Ok, then let's expand on these points:

Who are the large players? IBM and Samsung? Teaming up with Ethereum? 21 and Qualcomm. Who else? I want in on that too. So, which companies that are still in semi stealth mode? Which private companies do you have in mind?

My goal is to have a piece of it all, where possible.

From a strategic perspective it may be a good idea to spread some investments around if you are just interesting in making money. As I said before , profit is a secondary motivation for me.

 IBM , samsung , Cisco, GE, Microsoft, Google, Amazon,Qualcomm ,  Skyworks Solutions are a few examples that are investing millions into their own future tokens. Additionally, expect some financial companies to roll out some new products and possibly a government coin or other black swan events.

NxT and other alts will look like jokes compared to what is going to be introduced. Bitcoin may be toppled but has a good chance of hanging on as a fringe collectors coin , or anarchist coin , or the defacto alt when one needs to launder money or buy illegal items through decentralized marketplaces. Yes, I am saying that right ... become may become an "alt".

[Daedelus]

Do your research and you will find 14 August 2014 were very interesting times. Times we don't see often, fortunately 

Definitely an outlier, if these stats mean anything. Nxtforum publishes these stats for every day of its existence if anyone is really bored.

[EvilDave]

Hmmmmm.....I like IBWTs input here, it's good/interesting to hear how non-NXT'ers actually see NXT, and there is some truth in what he/she is saying.

The one point I really do want to take issue with: Nxt is a long way from dormant.
There are a lot of people working their asses off on both the tech side and, to a lesser extent, on marketing and business development.
You can see the technical development very clearly:
Current MainNet client
Current TestNet/Experimental client
Windows Installer (experimental)

As Nxt is devoting a lot of energy to marketing  (and bizdev) outside the crypto scene, much of that marketing effort simply never gets seen on BTT, and that goes double for the bizdev, as most of that is operating under confidentiality agreements. Not to mention the fact that Nxt has developed a philosophy of only announcing stuff when it's actually ready, and not trying for short term gain by hyping 'potential' features (mostly  )

As an example, the moment that any crypto gets to talk to a bank.........it gets hyped.
I know that right now there are a couple of major players in the banking world (and one minor) sniffing around NXT.
But as I have absolutely no idea how these contacts are going to play out, there is no sense in hyping them yet.
So, to the outside world......it looks like nothing happening.

The deal with Jetcoin (which I am allowed to mention, just not very loudly) could also lead to some very interesting developments. This is , btw, something that Nxt has been looking at/involved with for almost 9 months now.....this is a normal timescale for initial exploration and set-up for a mainstream project, but it seems like forever in crypto time.
This accelerated timescale within crypto is yet another reason that Nxt seems to move slowly: entire currencies have risen, got pumped and died in the time it takes Nxt to organise a community barbeque.

[inBitweTrust]

The one point I really do want to take issue with: Nxt is a long way from dormant.
There are a lot of people working their asses off on both the tech side and, to a lesser extent, on marketing and business development.

Agreed, NxT has accomplished a lot with so few developers and people involved. The same could be said with Bitshares. I have problems and praise for both projects.

Not to mention the fact that Nxt has developed a philosophy of only announcing stuff when it's actually ready, and not trying for short term gain by hyping 'potential' features (mostly   )

Underpromise and over deliver is a good strategy. Somewhat what I have seen with NxT , but than again there was a long time I was begging for a whitepaper for all the magical security improvements that were promised and still have not seen a final whitepaper for transparent forging. Has a final proposal been released yet or are you guys still working on the draft? This is an over hyped feature that NxT users brag about where they should probably wait for at least a final whitepaper and moment of time for us to read and analyze it before pumping it as the next cure all.

I know that right now there are a couple of major players in the banking world (and one minor) sniffing around NXT.
But as I have absolutely no idea how these contacts are going to play out, there is no sense in hyping them yet.
So, to the outside world......it looks like nothing happening.

The banks will court NxT developers, steal their ideas , get some free advice and work out of them and perhaps scalp one... they will never adopt NxT... just look what happened with overstock and counterparty. They will want to control their coin and create their own ICO.

I don't support the corporate coins or centralized government coins which will start rolling out into existence , but also see that they are a real threat as our ecosystem is still extremely fragile. It is this acknowledgement which is probably the driving force for many Bitcoin supporters to dissuade people for investing in alts and to focus everything on bitcoin as there are some real and dangerous threats to some of our shared ideals. Another part of me really appreciates alts that provide genuine development as they are excellent test beds for new features and there is nothing like testing the security of the protocol or new features with millions of dollars at stake and which cannot completely be replicated in a testcoin or localhost environment.

[the joint]

I think it's mostly due to first-mover advantage, and due to the community's perception that Bitcoin is "good enough." 

Not just that.  VC's are pumping millions (and soon to be billions) in Bitcoin related start ups.

Agreed.  Generally, I would have grouped this in with the first-mover advantage. 

[DecentralizeEconomics]

BTC would be great if it wasn't centralized and its security wasn't dominated by the mining conglomerates instead of the currency holders

This is a fair criticism of Bitcoin but one that can possibly be overcome with solutions like the Lightning Protocol, ASIC appliances, and other algorithms being introduced to change the incentives. There some core developers who even think PoW should be migrated away from, others think a hybrid approach can be adopted, others believe that the laws of thermodynamics  and economics will naturally solve the mining centralization dilemma.

Imo, Bitcoin will never be changed from PoW.

You are assuming that BCNext was a liar, cheater and thief.  Imo, from what I have read, inquired and experienced this was not the case.  I'd like anyone who believes otherwise to run a taint analysis on the NXT funding address.  I think it is pretty obvious that BCNext was an idealist and not out to make as much money as possible by scamming others because he limited donations to 21 BTC.

You are straw manning my position and I made such a claim. If I were to make an educated guess I would suggest that BCNext and a few other developers/partners decided to spread multiple investments across several accounts for multiple reasons. Protecting their privacy and insuring the best chance of success of their project they believed in. Humans can rationalize certain behaviors and believe they are doing the right thing at the same time.  Additionally, all it would take is one of the early partners /devs to create a bunch of shill investment accounts, who suggested it had to be BCNext ?

All economic systems gravitate towards 20% of the participates controlling 80% of the wealth.  Personally from what I've seen, it's my opinion that the initial distribution was spread between separate entities.  I cannot prove this, but you can't prove your allegation either.

Your belief of mining being more "fair" than a crowdsale is imo not accurate.  With mining a currency, you are simply abstracting the crowdsale from the coin and sending your money to the hardware manufacturers and electricity providers.  That doesn't make it more "fair".  There will always be people with more money who can purchase more mining hardware and pay a larger electric bill.

By wasting resources on hardware and electricity you can make it very difficult for a few people to corner the market. It is no longer just about who has the most capital to buy the hardware and electricity but who can develop the fastest chips, who can cool the chips the best, who can find the cheapest space , who can contract the best support staff to maintain the hardware, who can source the cheapest electricity(notice all those poor chinese mining Bitcoin... why isn't all mining centralized in the US where most early bitcoin users came from and all the money is located?)

Any government or large corporate entity could take control of the Bitcoin blockchain in an instant.

[TaunSew]

NXT saw its' last hurrah and rebound when JustaBit / John said NXT would be going on CoinBase and then it never happened.  I'ld imagine the emotion behind that one was probably similar for Litecoin when Charlie Lee accepted a job at CoinBase, but Litecoin was never added and subsequently has been going into the abyss ever since.  

Technically speaking, all the faith people put into CoinBase is such where, if CoinBase added any alternate then that alternate would probably go to #2 status overnight.



For all the "allegations", liberally thrown at NXT and NEM and other projects, it possibly doesn't matter as BTC had countless allegations and documentable scams between 2009 and 2012 and it didn't prevent December 2013 from occurring or discourage Wells Fargo from looking into CryptoCurrency (MtGox in 2014 definitely discouraged them and this was irrecoverable damage and probably prevented a $10,000 Bitcoin but alas this is another subject).

[tokeweed]

NXT saw its' last hurrah and rebound when JustaBit / John said NXT would be going on CoinBase and then it never happened.  I'ld imagine the emotion behind that one was probably similar for Litecoin when Charlie Lee accepted a job at CoinBase, but Litecoin was never added and subsequently has been going into the abyss ever since.  

Technically speaking, all the faith people put into CoinBase is such where, if CoinBase added any alternate then that alternate would probably go to #2 status overnight.



For all the "allegations", liberally thrown at NXT and NEM and other projects, it possibly doesn't matter as BTC had countless allegations and documentable scams between 2009 and 2012 and it didn't prevent December 2013 from occurring or discourage Wells Fargo from looking into CryptoCurrency (MtGox in 2014 definitely discouraged them and this was irrecoverable damage and probably prevented a $10,000 Bitcoin but alas this is another subject).

Do you think they're looking at other options?  Ripple, Bitshares or some other well funded altcoin project?  I mean if BTC was enough to attract their interest then maybe they're trying to look for other options too...?

Cryptocurrencies could be the next big thing to happen in the world of finance.

[d5000]

My opinion is that Nxt adoption in electronic commerce is still very low. That probably will not change until the main projects of the technology tree are implemented (smart contracts etc.) and the wallet can "stabilize", so merchants would not to have to update every month or so.

Long term I'm optimistic, but I don't expect to NXT to rise fastly in the next months.

[sumantso]

Why is NXT not the number 2 coin?

'coz wishing it doesn't make it so. I am personally convinced that Bitshares is the dog's bollocks, but that is not preventing it from racing towards the abyss.

Technology is only one part of the game, there are so many other factors involved.

[inBitweTrust]

My opinion is that Nxt adoption in electronic commerce is still very low. That probably will not change until the main projects of the technology tree are implemented (smart contracts etc.) and the wallet can "stabilize", so merchants would not to have to update every month or so.

Long term I'm optimistic, but I don't expect to NXT to rise fastly in the next months.

Getting Merchants to accept Bitcoin is difficult enough , adopting an alt currency that no one has heard of is a whole new level of difficulty. Most merchants think that it isn't worth their time integrating Bitcoin for the potential 400k- 1 million Bitcoin regular users(not total investors). NxT users are far more speculative than Bitcoin right now thus there may only be a handful of potential clients willing to spend NxT worldwide.

[d5000]

Getting Merchants to accept Bitcoin is difficult enough , adopting an alt currency that no one has heard of is a whole new level of difficulty. Most merchants think that it isn't worth their time integrating Bitcoin for the potential 400k- 1 million Bitcoin regular users(not total investors). NxT users are far more speculative than Bitcoin right now thus there may only be a handful of potential clients willing to spend NxT worldwide.

For now, you are right. But my theory is that a PoS coin will seriously threat Bitcoin's leadership in the cryptocurrency world in the coming years. Bitcoin's transaction costs are pretty high because of mining, only that for now the price boom has "hidden" this fact. Now probably we are seeing the actual bear market as a consequence of the freshly mined coins being sold. Nxt and other PoS coins don't have this problem and thus can offer smaller transaction costs.

[Snail2]

the first with a functioning Asset Exchange, decentralized Marketplace, Monetary System,

False, false and false. I suppose the other first examples don't classify as functional in your opinion despite them functioning.

Damn! I had the impression that AE is working. Then what the f**k I just have bought and where...:O?!? I also got some dividends... so you say it's all just an illusion ?