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Author Topic: Bitcoin fork for a small town  (Read 9748 times)
marcus_of_augustus
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May 30, 2011, 05:43:54 AM
 #41

Just turn them on to bitcoins ... $8, $0.8, $0.08, $80 ... who cares what the exchange rate is?

It is a decimal point and you are on a computer, it doesn't matter what the exchange rate is, only that it CAN be exchanged ... and what is this "mining chaos" you are obsessing about,  Huh

Humboldt County then eh? nice countryside.

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Sukrim
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May 30, 2011, 09:47:00 AM
 #42

I don't care about being an early adopter.  I see a problem with the system for the people who asked me to look into developing a local currency.  This is going to arise out of the barter project, not mining.
Well, then


"Mine the shit out of that village." Is that your bitcoin rapist threat? Are you 12?

Does anybody in the audience really fault me for exploring limiting *who* can mine in our town with morons like that on the loose?

To repeat: nobody in this town owes the power company any favors.  Nobody in this town owes ATI any favors.  Nobody in this town owes newegg/provantage/tigerdirect/etc any favors.
But anybody in this town could just use their kid's computer to potentially gain a lot of local money or screw with the whole system, if it is a bitcoin fork with money generation per new block.
If you start limiting mining, you start harming your local economy + you still risk mining pool attacks (if only a hashrate of 5 MH/s is "allowed", let 60 miners run on one GPU and create a pool). Bitcoin is designed to be as open as possible to anyone who wants to mine, limiting this can have severe issues!

Again, there is also no real way to make sure only town people are mining (and if mining only has very small rewards it doesn't even matter!). IP adresses won't work, as you can go online with mobile phos too (and they usually are even NATed). Selling mining certificates (however you implement that into bitcoin...) makes mining non-anonymous again and harms your network security (and still certificate holders can form pools to attack the system).

Furthermore, nobody in this town needs to share their local currency with luminary organizations like the [$ethnic_group] mafia or [$country] intelligence services.

Maybe I will do this straight bitcoin rules on a new chain under a different name.  I don't know yet.  I'm exploring the implications of changing certain points.  That's the point of this thread.
With straight BTC rules you favor early adopters and high hashrate miners far more than people who trade with that "money" initially.
This is intentionally with BTC to make sure the network kicks off with a secure hash rate until enough money is in the system to really start an economy (which is currently happening as mining gets harder and harder + ppl start to sell stuff for BTC instead.)
BTC itself has a huge inflation initially (the first 1000 BTC become only 50% of all BTC after just 20 blocks!) which might also scare people away.

Right now you can easily get a fairly secure hashrate via GPU mining and what you wnat to have is I think a quickly working money system, not a bootstrapping economy, right?


In the end, if you want to have something VERY similar to BTC, use BTC - and if you want to have something that just uses a blockchain, make sure that you do NOT have to limit participating miners in any way artificially.

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May 30, 2011, 06:22:35 PM
 #43

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Smiley

Drop the reward according to a stretchy rule applied to difficulty ratios and there can be no take overs.

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
Sukrim
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May 30, 2011, 11:01:00 PM
 #44

As far as I understood, difficulty 1 blocks would yield the most money and the higher difficulty gets, the lower the payout?

This means the more secure the network gets, the fewer money is produced (if I understand you correctly).

Also on-off attacks are possible (mining a lot for ~10 days weeks, waiting 3-4 weeks (as the next round will take MUCH longer) and mining a lot again) as well as supply shortening attacks (drive up difficulty so nearly no new money is produced after you've mined a lot of money via on-off attacks).

This would again make towncoins quite unstable and trust can be lost very easily.

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sacarlson
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June 02, 2011, 02:00:54 AM
 #45

Sounds like the LETS model might work here and maybe using the Freecoin newchain as the method of tracking and distribution of the LETS model.  If you need help with Freecoin setup I would be glad to help.   I guess you would still need some central site as the LETS has to start the initial distribution, but could continue operation even if the central site went down.  Or just manualy have a distribution point from some trusted party or group.  And as far as Sukrim is saying about attacks that make development of money more difficult, my model with WEEDS creates all the  coins that will ever be produced in the fist 50 blocks in it's trial case it produced 10million coins in 50 blocks and no more after.  then you distribute initial loans from your central point and continued distribution continues on it's own.  It's all ajustuble in Freecoin for ajustable inflation

for more info on MultiCoin check out #multicoin chat on freenode , for more info on BeerTokens see the [url=http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9
torbank
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June 02, 2011, 05:59:14 AM
 #46

If you run it over a VPN it would add an extra layer of security.
FinShaggy
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May 25, 2013, 08:41:59 PM
 #47

Working on Starting a Bitcoin town here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=216139.0

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
Sukrim
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May 25, 2013, 09:56:42 PM
 #48

This thread was about something different, necroing it was not really needed! Undecided

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FinShaggy
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May 25, 2013, 09:58:04 PM
 #49

This thread was about something different, necroing it was not really needed! Undecided

Well, it is the same idea. I figured since this project never seemed to get completed, anyone still interested can read about a newer similar project.

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
ISAWHIM
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May 26, 2013, 08:32:02 PM
 #50

You fail to see the point, if your intentions are this...

1: Use overly-priced CPU that requires TONS of electricity to MINE to create a WORTHLESS coin that you intend to GIVE AWAY for a BARTER-ITEM.
2: Limit those who can participate, to being the ONES WITH THE FASTEST CPU, that WASTES THE LEAST POWER.

You will not be able to control any "pooling", which would hide the mining-tools. Thus, you would have to MANIPULATE/CONTROL the market/mining, to people YOU BELIEVE deserve the coins they mined...

Here is what you want to do...

1: Make a coin that represents a individual "offering" of a bartered item. This simply requires a "bank" system to "accept" that JOE gave SUE x-coins worth of things. (But now you are back to money. Thus, not a barter.) SUE is the one who decides what JOE gets for coins, not YOU.
2: JOE should be able to give those coins to SUE for the GOODS that he gave her. (But that makes the coin useless, without any "value". JOE would have to get LESS than what he gave to SUE, or SUE did not make anything, she just wasted his time in the process, and SUE still has no food in the end, only her worthless coins back. If she KEPT some food, thus, giving JOE less food for the coins then SUE made money/value/coin.)

Thus, what is the point? You just like wasting electricity, thus, loosing value with every coin you make, giving DOLLARS to the power-company, instead of to those who are bartering? You want them to constantly loose, the more they trade?

Why are they getting coins? They just give stuff to the person doing nothing... then have to spend them on what... electricity?

You do realize "bartering" is a taxable "gain", right... Only you have to pay taxes on the "value" that the IRS thinks is the value, which is MSRP, not "Actual traded value". Only unprepared food can be bartered without taxes, because it can be SOLD without taxes. (Thus, you are just creating more waste.)

Do you work for the power company? Is that why you want this horrible system in place?

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