Is Marital Rape a Crime?

[BADecker]

What, are you going to adopt?   

I've gotten this far in life without wanting offspring for one single second. I think I'm good to go the distance now. There's enough people in the world already. I'll give my replacement ticket to those who actually want to do it.

If we lived healthy and peacefully to, say, a thousand years, you would want kids after a while.

[gentlemand]

What, are you going to adopt?   

I've gotten this far in life without wanting offspring for one single second. I think I'm good to go the distance now. There's enough people in the world already. I'll give my replacement ticket to those who actually want to do it.

If we lived healthy and peacefully to, say, a thousand years, you would want kids after a while.

Going on my genetic history, my ticker will explode like a hand grenade within 15-20 years. It wouldn't really be fair on anyone involved to croak before they were ready for it.

If we did live to a thousand years, there's no way unlimited childbirth would be permitted but I'm sure I would get broody at some point in those circumstances.

[BADecker]

What, are you going to adopt?   

I've gotten this far in life without wanting offspring for one single second. I think I'm good to go the distance now. There's enough people in the world already. I'll give my replacement ticket to those who actually want to do it.

If we lived healthy and peacefully to, say, a thousand years, you would want kids after a while.

Going on my genetic history, my ticker will explode like a hand grenade within 15-20 years. It wouldn't really be fair on anyone involved to croak before they were ready for it.

If we did live to a thousand years, there's no way unlimited childbirth would be permitted but I'm sure I would get broody at some point in those circumstances.

If we were healthy enough to live for a thousand years, our mentality would be healthy enough to develop inertialless space drives that would take us even to the far galaxies. Throughout the universe we would terra-form untold numbers of planets, and live happily ever after. Children would be a sought after enjoyment.

[panju1]

Marriage is definitely not a joke, but it has been rounded up in a mushi act by all "eternal love" books and romantic art. What marriage is planned to be is an economic union and to guarantee the rights of each side in the family. If the husband and wife love each other - great, if not - well there can never be a full happiness.  

Marriage is an act for the society. It is meant to protect the rights of the couple, not to take away the right of the woman to say no.

[BADecker]

Marriage is definitely not a joke, but it has been rounded up in a mushi act by all "eternal love" books and romantic art. What marriage is planned to be is an economic union and to guarantee the rights of each side in the family. If the husband and wife love each other - great, if not - well there can never be a full happiness.  

Marriage is an act for the society. It is meant to protect the rights of the couple, not to take away the right of the woman to say no.

Marriage is a method that God developed, and gave to us so that we could joyfully make more people for God. Of course, we mess everything up that we do, and so some of us don't want the joy of children as God would have for us.

[gentlemand]

If we were healthy enough to live for a thousand years, our mentality would be healthy enough to develop inertialless space drives that would take us even to the far galaxies. Throughout the universe we would terra-form untold numbers of planets, and live happily ever after. Children would be a sought after enjoyment.

Hmm. You've talked me into it then. Drop me an email when there's a space ark ready to go and I'll show up with my babymother.

[BADecker]

If we were healthy enough to live for a thousand years, our mentality would be healthy enough to develop inertialless space drives that would take us even to the far galaxies. Throughout the universe we would terra-form untold numbers of planets, and live happily ever after. Children would be a sought after enjoyment.

Hmm. You've talked me into it then. Drop me an email when there's a space ark ready to go and I'll show up with my babymother.

Kids are great, but don't take me too seriously.   

[Okurkabinladin]

I think the western definition of "marital rape" is way to goddamn wide. In some countries it means partner being abused to the point of being hospitalized. In others, its sufficient, that woman makes up her mind post-coitus and man is considered guilty, until proven otherwise.

[BADecker]

I think the western definition of "marital rape" is way to goddamn wide. In some countries it means partner being abused to the point of being hospitalized. In others, its sufficient, that woman makes up her mind post-coitus and man is considered guilty, until proven otherwise.

Right!

Part of the question should be, "Is it a crime for a marriage partner to deny sex to the other partner when the other partner requests (demands) it?" And if it is a crime, is it always a crime? Or are there certain circumstances under which it is a crime, while it is not a crime under other circumstances?

After all, indulging in the sex act is a great portion of the reason why people get married in the first place.

[sankara87]

Rape is physical damage to the property of a person, legal or not is a despicable act

[BADecker]

Rape is physical damage to the property of a person, legal or not is a despicable act

But in marriage, each partner is property of the other as well as his/her own property.

[Lethn]

I think the western definition of "marital rape" is way to goddamn wide. In some countries it means partner being abused to the point of being hospitalized. In others, its sufficient, that woman makes up her mind post-coitus and man is considered guilty, until proven otherwise.

It's what happens when you put backwards thinking medieval psychopaths in charge of the justice system, it is partly thanks to the efforts of real activists getting blocked at every turn that we're seeing just how bad everything is.

[BADecker]

I think the western definition of "marital rape" is way to goddamn wide. In some countries it means partner being abused to the point of being hospitalized. In others, its sufficient, that woman makes up her mind post-coitus and man is considered guilty, until proven otherwise.

It's what happens when you put backwards thinking medieval psychopaths in charge of the justice system, it is partly thanks to the efforts of real activists getting blocked at every turn that we're seeing just how bad everything is.

No. Rather, that's what happens when activists try to use the medieval thinking of the courts to push their case through.

The courts are required to use medieval thinking because all of their foundational paperwork - the Constitution back to the Magna Carta and beyond - is written in medieval style language. They don't have a choice, because they took an oath to uphold the Constitution, so they have to do it Constitution style, which is in sort-of medieval language.

When activists go into their courts, and try to use the medieval language of the courts without being licensed (like the attorneys are), the courts can do anything to them that they wish. Nothing the activist says means anything except that the court recognizes it.

If you want your pet activist to win in court, get him to stand as a man, present, not represented in any way, so that the courts have to present their case as men, not as some corporation like THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, etc.  Get him to file his case against the man who is a government officer who is hindering him. Man may do no harm to man. But if you don't call a man out in court, you have entered their medieval courts.

[vencelylalas]

i agree that once a husband force his wife to have sex it would still be considered as a crime...though they can legally do it yet if it is done with violence the husband must be punished to what ever extent of law a country he resides at.

[grendel25]

Rape is a common language term.  When the rapist goes to jail it's for sexual assault.  It happens something like every three minutes in the United States.  Mostly female victims but there are some males too.

[panju1]

Part of the question should be, "Is it a crime for a marriage partner to deny sex to the other partner when the other partner requests (demands) it?" And if it is a crime, is it always a crime? Or are there certain circumstances under which it is a crime, while it is not a crime under other circumstances?

Interesting view.
Even if it is a crime to deny sex, the punishment should be divorce / partner walking out. Definitely not rape.

[BADecker]

Part of the question should be, "Is it a crime for a marriage partner to deny sex to the other partner when the other partner requests (demands) it?" And if it is a crime, is it always a crime? Or are there certain circumstances under which it is a crime, while it is not a crime under other circumstances?

Interesting view.
Even if it is a crime to deny sex, the punishment should be divorce / partner walking out. Definitely not rape.

Walking out momentarily, perhaps. But not permanently.

When people live in a marriage relationship, they live in possibly the closest relationship of any. Sports team players don't live that close, even when they are executing well-practiced plays.

The point is. Each partner in a marriage relationship is going to have different ideas than the other at times. How much denial is one supposed to put up with from the other? How much rape is one supposed to put up with from the other? Rather, they should both live up to the marriage agreement.

The marriage agreement, especially if it is not written, includes abstinence at times, and indulgence at other times. At times the one wanting sex should bow to the wishes of the one not wanting sex. At times the one who does not want sex should bow to the wishes of the one who does.

Unfortunately the world is not all that friendly all the time. Is it a crime? Perhaps. Is it their business? Yes. Was it in the marriage agreement? In some marriage agreements. Should government intervene? Yes, if government was in the agreement... and if the agreement is broken, possibly.

This whole question must be applied on a case by case basis. There is no one answer that fits every case, no matter how people on the outside feel about what goes on between a married couple.

Another consideration is the idea of illness. An overwhelming desire for continual indulgence, or an overwhelming desire for long term abstinence, might be indications of mental or physical illness in one or both of the partners. Is illness a crime?

[Okurkabinladin]

I think the western definition of "marital rape" is way to goddamn wide. In some countries it means partner being abused to the point of being hospitalized. In others, its sufficient, that woman makes up her mind post-coitus and man is considered guilty, until proven otherwise.

Right!

Part of the question should be, "Is it a crime for a marriage partner to deny sex to the other partner when the other partner requests (demands) it?" And if it is a crime, is it always a crime? Or are there certain circumstances under which it is a crime, while it is not a crime under other circumstances?

After all, indulging in the sex act is a great portion of the reason why people get married in the first place.

In majority of arab countries, marriage is indeed good reason to get sex for "free". Also as part of this arrangement, woman is expected to provide both sex and children, unless her health prohibits it. Forcing partner to sex is therefore no offense there, women would be will advised to keep silent about it, as inability to provide for their husband readily is considered shameful. That´s why I earlier mentioned very vague international "standarts".

[BADecker]

I think the western definition of "marital rape" is way to goddamn wide. In some countries it means partner being abused to the point of being hospitalized. In others, its sufficient, that woman makes up her mind post-coitus and man is considered guilty, until proven otherwise.

Right!

Part of the question should be, "Is it a crime for a marriage partner to deny sex to the other partner when the other partner requests (demands) it?" And if it is a crime, is it always a crime? Or are there certain circumstances under which it is a crime, while it is not a crime under other circumstances?

After all, indulging in the sex act is a great portion of the reason why people get married in the first place.

In majority of arab countries, marriage is indeed good reason to get sex for "free". Also as part of this arrangement, woman is expected to provide both sex and children, unless her health prohibits it. Forcing partner to sex is therefore no offense there, women would be will advised to keep silent about it, as inablity to provide her their husband is considered shameful. That´s why I earlier mentioned very vague international "standarts".

I have one important thing to say about this. No matter the country and the laws, there is no government that has any other reason to exist than to uphold private property rights for the people. If you follow the laws back to their origination in every government, you will see this. And because of who and what people are and are to each other, there is no greater foundational law between people other than to "love your neighbor as yourself," especially if your neighbor is your husband or wife.

[Okurkabinladin]

That´s idealistic approach BADecker, while I find it cool and all, it completely ignores the human nature and its historical development.

Laws emerged as codified rules of tribal customs, reflecting moral views of locals. Indeed the purpose of man in this conservative environment is to provide for and protect the family (basis of clan and through clan of larger society), while (young fertile) woman is the prerequisite for existence of family.

This may give you some outlook, why outside of our liberal, postmodern bubble, it is indeed not only possible, but "norm" to arrange marriages, "abuse" ones children or even commit "honor killing". Individual becomes a liability, when his actions put rest of the clan at danger or even make the group appear weak. This is not specialty of Islam, Hindus, east Asian and Westerners have all build basis of modern day society around this model, while it excused countless acts of wrongdoings, it proved itself as working.