My view on bitcoin

[Gyfts]

I think there is a gray area in between the two crowds you refer to. In a way, the price of Bitcoin is proportional to how successful it is which keep all people focused on the price, not necessarily the currency. This doesn't mean they don't care for the representation or technology Bitcoin holds, but price is a main component to the drive that people have towards it. Personally, I feel as if I fit into that crowd. The price of Bitcoin being up is great, makes us all excited, when it's down maybe not so much, but my interest in Bitcoin will not decrease just because of the price. As far as those that use Bitcoin as a "get rich quick" scheme, I find they will be heavily disappointed, especially with the current exchange rate. Bitcoin won't be hitting the mainstream public soon if ever.

[johnyj]

I don't agree. Bitcoin's problem is not fiat but the lack of mass adaption. This however results from too few useful real life applications which using Bitcoin. It is too hard to get into all this Bitcoin stuff when you don't have a technical background or interest.

tldr version?

Bitcoin's problem is fiat. And people don't care because they want higher fiat prices.

The lack of mass adoption is a consequence of the 'lack of knowledge' and we know that some people don't want to learn and don't like the "new technology" so I think this is another problem.

The problem I see with bitcoin is what the hell is taking the Willy bot so long to come back. That would surely shut everyone up.  You want moon??  There! Good job Willy!  Everyone happy.  Willy says fuck ya'll.

Then we can say the problem for bitcoin is the willy bot, and that bot used a lot of FIAT currencies... so the problem is the FIAT 'part' . I think we have a problem!

Get Willy to pump BTC to over 10,000 USD.  These threads and bullshit opinions about the problems of BTC...  GONE!

Everybody will start counting their benjamins.

I think you're right. On the long run this is what 90% of the people in here want.

It's exactly how these kind of people were shaken out by huge speculative bubbles in the past. Few understand that when the time comes, you just don't need to convert to fiat. If someone just aims 10K, he will miss the chance to see it reaching 1 million

[GenTarkin]

All I know is when I got in the game back in 2011 .. BTC was nothing, literally nothing, it had one mainstream article at that point, this forum and silk road.
FF to today and look at what it has accomplished ... tons of useable BIP's added to the core protocol, millions upon millions of fiat thrown at mining and VC startups, hundreds of alt coins trying to be anywhere near as successful as BTC, governments starting to see it as a serious threat & holding actual leglislative meetings in regards to cryptocurrencies, major companies accepting it as a form of payment , the list goes on and on....

Ask me if I thought BTC was gonna accomplish this much 4 years ago this soon? I would have answered w/ a resounding NO, u fucking kidding me?!

In short, BTC has come a LONG LONG fucking way in 4 years ... this is what keeps my head up and my faith alive in BTC.

Sure, its been in a downslump in price, but the services / adoption ... the "infrastructure" has scaled MASSIVELY and continues to every day.

We only need to worry about the price if it goes below $100 again. Because at that point miners will be dropping off the network in flocks, consequently driving diff down ... which leaves BTC vulnerable to relentless 51% attacks. Thats when we need to worry about if BTC will succeed or not.

[albert11]

I think there is a gray area in between the two crowds you refer to. In a way, the price of Bitcoin is proportional to how successful it is which keep all people focused on the price, not necessarily the currency. This doesn't mean they don't care for the representation or technology Bitcoin holds, but price is a main component to the drive that people have towards it. Personally, I feel as if I fit into that crowd. The price of Bitcoin being up is great, makes us all excited, when it's down maybe not so much, but my interest in Bitcoin will not decrease just because of the price. As far as those that use Bitcoin as a "get rich quick" scheme, I find they will be heavily disappointed, especially with the current exchange rate. Bitcoin won't be hitting the mainstream public soon if ever.

I don't think the price of bitcoin is proportional to its success as a currency. Circle wants people to exchange fiat between each others without even knowing they use bitcoin. If this turns out to be the killer app which is likely IMO then every company would do the same and people all over the world will be exchange their national fiat over the bitcoin blockchain without any knowledge that bitcoin ever exists.

If companies were to use the bitcoin blockchain to do that ( circle is the first to do it) then the price of bitcoin will rise a lot but bitcoin as a currency will be a total failure because every one will deal with the same fiat system, merchants won't even bother displaying bitcoin as their payment method anymore, you will have the cash option and the digital cash option.

[acquafredda]

Some interesting thoughts OP.

For me this is not a dichotomy. I am a bitcoin fan because it is outside of banks and governments. However, I don't mind banks using it because they can't control it the way dollars are manipulated. Fair money does not not need rules for users, even if the user is a bank.

Yes, that's it! This is a good point.
However, the problem comes when something like what we discussed here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1040925.msg11242373#msg11242373 happens.

I think I see what you mean. With their spending power a few players could buy a huge % of BTC.? That could happen, but there are forces that work against it. If someone started buying thousands of bitcoins a day it would push the price ever higher. They would be both collecting coins and driving the price. Imagine how high it would go if someone tried buying 10% of the coins. I just don't see it as cost effective. Besides, mine are not for sale. Well... Ok, I'll sell a BTC for $1500.

 

I think I see what you mean. With their spending power a few players could buy a huge % of BTC.? That could happen, but there are forces that work against it. If someone started buying thousands of bitcoins a day it would push the price ever higher. They would be both collecting coins and driving the price. Imagine how high it would go if someone tried buying 10% of the coins. I just don't see it as cost effective. Besides, mine are not for sale. Well... Ok, I'll sell a BTC for $1500.
 

How many coins are actually on all exchanges at any one time? A few tens of thousands maybe.

We all know that market cap is a silly measurement. Nowhere near that much money has ever been poured in. It would also work in the opposite direction too. If someone was hell bent on owning 1 million coins then prices would be in the Oort cloud long before they obtained even half of them.

All I know is when I got in the game back in 2011 .. BTC was nothing, literally nothing, it had one mainstream article at that point, this forum and silk road.
FF to today and look at what it has accomplished ... tons of useable BIP's added to the core protocol, millions upon millions of fiat thrown at mining and VC startups, hundreds of alt coins trying to be anywhere near as successful as BTC, governments starting to see it as a serious threat & holding actual leglislative meetings in regards to cryptocurrencies, major companies accepting it as a form of payment , the list goes on and on....

Ask me if I thought BTC was gonna accomplish this much 4 years ago this soon? I would have answered w/ a resounding NO, u fucking kidding me?!

In short, BTC has come a LONG LONG fucking way in 4 years ... this is what keeps my head up and my faith alive in BTC.

Sure, its been in a downslump in price, but the services / adoption ... the "infrastructure" has scaled MASSIVELY and continues to every day.

We only need to worry about the price if it goes below $100 again. Because at that point miners will be dropping off the network in flocks, consequently driving diff down ... which leaves BTC vulnerable to relentless 51% attacks. Thats when we need to worry about if BTC will succeed or not.

Ok, very good. This sums up very well what I think of BTC.

They would be both collecting coins and driving the price. Imagine how high it would go if someone tried buying 10% of the coins. I just don't see it as cost effective.

Yes, once someone/something will start buying massively there'll be the famous moon as a limit. It's highly unlikely (massive buying scenario) but I do think that between 700$ and $1000 there will be massive dumps.
And then... it's gonna be fun!

Thank you guys

[tokeweed]

All I know is when I got in the game back in 2011 .. BTC was nothing, literally nothing, it had one mainstream article at that point, this forum and silk road.
FF to today and look at what it has accomplished ... tons of useable BIP's added to the core protocol, millions upon millions of fiat thrown at mining and VC startups, hundreds of alt coins trying to be anywhere near as successful as BTC, governments starting to see it as a serious threat & holding actual leglislative meetings in regards to cryptocurrencies, major companies accepting it as a form of payment , the list goes on and on....

Ask me if I thought BTC was gonna accomplish this much 4 years ago this soon? I would have answered w/ a resounding NO, u fucking kidding me?!

In short, BTC has come a LONG LONG fucking way in 4 years ... this is what keeps my head up and my faith alive in BTC.

Sure, its been in a downslump in price, but the services / adoption ... the "infrastructure" has scaled MASSIVELY and continues to every day.

We only need to worry about the price if it goes below $100 again. Because at that point miners will be dropping off the network in flocks, consequently driving diff down ... which leaves BTC vulnerable to relentless 51% attacks. Thats when we need to worry about if BTC will succeed or not.

So how much USD would it take to drive BTC's price down below 100? 

Big banks, I know you're there lurking.  So listen up.

[scryptasicminer]

Most bitcoiners want bitcoin to increase in value so bad, they will do anything it takes to make it go mainstream but don't really see where this is will lead us or even care at all how bitcoin will look like in the future.

I've known about bitcoin for very little time but from what i could gather here and there (correct me if i'm wrong), bitcoiners have been very enthousiast about bitcoin for many reasons one being that it is an alternative currency which is not manipulated by banks.

So when I see goldman sacks investing in bitcoin and everyone wetting their pants i am starting to think that we might have two differents crowds of bitcoiners, one that wants the currency to succeed and one that wants the value to rise but don't really care about the currency itself.

In my opinion people who wants the value to increase and wants rapid mainstream adoption will be responsible for bitcoin to never go mainstream, the blockchain will though, people will be transfering fiat between eachothers using the bitcoin blockchain or another one, but what is the point of having a blockchain in the background doing all the work and fiat on top of it? people will have no incentive to use the actual bitcoin, merchants will probably in the future have fiat denomination for their digital payment, and all transactions that were previously cash could be monitored by government with the help of bitcoin banks like coinbase and circle.

One of the awesome things about bitcoin is that it helps understand how money works in our current system, it raises very interesting questions, it educated people about what actually is money and also raises awarness about current manipulated fiat system.

By putting the blockchain in the background with fiat on top we will slowly remove all of these subjects from being discussed that are so important.

Bitcoin to me is not gold2.0 as some believes, gold is an asset bitcoin is an alternative currency.(my opinion)

The question i ask is why do all these people want bitcoin to go mainstream apart from the fact that they will earn money from that? if bitcoin is mainstream one day we will probably never hear about the word "bitcoin" anymore.

My post may sound a bit like i am some anarcho libertarian but I am absolutely not, i think government has a role in society but this role is not the issuance of money, bitcoin fascinates me because it is sound money and not controlled by anyone.

Even if bitcoin blockchain remains decentralized what is the point of having fiat going through it ?

Personnaly i think that's a good thing that we have many different crypto currencies, some very interesting open source projects of bitcoin ecosystem could very easily be rolled out on another crypto but i just think that bitcoin is not heading in the right direction because people do not give it the time to.

Bitcoin was meant to be an alternative currency not a new means of payment, we have that already it's called paypal and the version 2 of paypal is what bitcoin is slowly becoming.

Reason why Satosi is gone and btc future is looking bleak.

[pereira4]

All I know is when I got in the game back in 2011 .. BTC was nothing, literally nothing, it had one mainstream article at that point, this forum and silk road.
FF to today and look at what it has accomplished ... tons of useable BIP's added to the core protocol, millions upon millions of fiat thrown at mining and VC startups, hundreds of alt coins trying to be anywhere near as successful as BTC, governments starting to see it as a serious threat & holding actual leglislative meetings in regards to cryptocurrencies, major companies accepting it as a form of payment , the list goes on and on....

Ask me if I thought BTC was gonna accomplish this much 4 years ago this soon? I would have answered w/ a resounding NO, u fucking kidding me?!

In short, BTC has come a LONG LONG fucking way in 4 years ... this is what keeps my head up and my faith alive in BTC.

Sure, its been in a downslump in price, but the services / adoption ... the "infrastructure" has scaled MASSIVELY and continues to every day.

We only need to worry about the price if it goes below $100 again. Because at that point miners will be dropping off the network in flocks, consequently driving diff down ... which leaves BTC vulnerable to relentless 51% attacks. Thats when we need to worry about if BTC will succeed or not.

So how much USD would it take to drive BTC's price down below 100? 

Big banks, I know you're there lurking.  So listen up.

It should be relatively easy to calculate. Look at the buy/sell orders and see how much BTC would need to be eaten for the price to be 100 in any of the major exchanges, in other words: Shit tons of money.

[Beliathon]

you can't blame people for trying to make quick profits.

We're not annoyed at them for wanting to get rich. I want to be rich just as much as the next chump.

We're annoyed at them for public whining about their failure to get rich quick, and in some cases even blaming bitcoin for this failure.

[Eastfist]

you can't blame people for trying to make quick profits.

We're not annoyed at them for wanting to get rich. We're annoyed at them for public whining about their failure to get rich quick, and worse still blaming bitcoin for their failure.

Exactly. Bitcoin was created by a bunch of teenagers after all.

[Beliathon]

you can't blame people for trying to make quick profits.

We're not annoyed at them for wanting to get rich. We're annoyed at them for public whining about their failure to get rich quick, and worse still blaming bitcoin for their failure.

Exactly. Bitcoin was created by a bunch of teenagers after all.

I thought maybe you were a troll worth ignoring, thank you for removing all doubt.

[Eastfist]

you can't blame people for trying to make quick profits.

We're not annoyed at them for wanting to get rich. We're annoyed at them for public whining about their failure to get rich quick, and worse still blaming bitcoin for their failure.

Exactly. Bitcoin was created by a bunch of teenagers after all.

I thought maybe you were a troll worth ignoring, thank you for removing all doubt.

Ask Jeff Garzik when he actually got involved with Bitcoin. He won't tell you the truth though. He's actually been involved since 1998 way back at Harding University High School in Charlotte, NC.

[Eastfist]

The problem with Bitcoin is the Bitcoiners. Some of these "early adopters" got a 15-year-career from it, and sure are ungrateful and rude.

[Amph]

The problem with Bitcoin is the Bitcoiners. Some of these "early adopters" got a 15-year-career from it, and sure are ungrateful and rude.

they should have spread a bit of it, i mean they hold 100k more, why not giving even 1% of your stock, it won't make you poor for sure, bitcoin is full of greedy people, like the other thread(Bitcoin isn't a volatile asset. It is something else entirely.) said

[redsn0w]

The problem with Bitcoin is the Bitcoiners. Some of these "early adopters" got a 15-year-career from it, and sure are ungrateful and rude.

they should have spread a bit of it, i mean they hold 100k more, why not giving even 1% of your stock, it won't make you poor for sure, bitcoin is full of greedy people, like the other thread(Bitcoin isn't a volatile asset. It is something else entirely.) said

Why someone should give bitcoin for free, if you were an early adopter I think you will never spread 1% of your bitcoin to all the "bitcoiner users".

[Amph]

The problem with Bitcoin is the Bitcoiners. Some of these "early adopters" got a 15-year-career from it, and sure are ungrateful and rude.

they should have spread a bit of it, i mean they hold 100k more, why not giving even 1% of your stock, it won't make you poor for sure, bitcoin is full of greedy people, like the other thread(Bitcoin isn't a volatile asset. It is something else entirely.) said

Why someone should give bitcoin for free, if you were an early adopter I think you will never spread 1% of your bitcoin to all the "bitcoiner users".

actually i might do, because i would not need all that amount of money, i doubt someone need 2M to retire unless he is greedy as fuck and want to buy useless thing like yatch, big pool ecc...

[acquafredda]

The problem with Bitcoin is the Bitcoiners. Some of these "early adopters" got a 15-year-career from it, and sure are ungrateful and rude.

they should have spread a bit of it, i mean they hold 100k more, why not giving even 1% of your stock, it won't make you poor for sure, bitcoin is full of greedy people, like the other thread(Bitcoin isn't a volatile asset. It is something else entirely.) said

Greed...
We could discuss endlessly about it.
It'll be a very though discussion that will be loaded by judjements and opinions: and this will lead to nowhere.

[louise123]

tldr version?

Bitcoin's problem is fiat. And people don't care because they want higher fiat prices.

That's true.
Everybody is wining about:
"When will Bitcoin go to the moon?"
"When will we see $5000 per Bitcoin?"

So yeah they want higher fiat prices.

[CoinBateman]

What we need, is for people to price their goods and services on BTC alone. Not, how many BTC a FIAT amount converts to at point of sale.

You don't see businesses changing their prices day to day based on their exchange rate to another currency.

[dothebeats]

What we need, is for people to price their goods and services on BTC alone. Not, how many BTC a FIAT amount converts to at point of sale.

You don't see businesses changing their prices day to day based on their exchange rate to another currency.

We do not need those, but seriously, in the current times, fiat is still the most widely-used currency in any parts of the world. There are establishments and businesses that do accept bitcoin as a form of payment, but how many are they in actuality? Also, the world isn't ready for using bitcoins as bitcoins, given the fact that it is not yet widely-used and is used mainly for speculation. People wouldn't want their money to be fluctuating in value every now and then, they want stability. Bitcoin doesn't have that, price-wise because it still is tied with fiat.