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Author Topic: Future mining powered by Tesla?  (Read 2441 times)
CanaryInTheMine
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May 01, 2015, 07:48:22 PM
 #1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKORsrlN-2k

When their NV factory comes online and they start producing in volume so that prices come down further, would this be a great way to supplement power needs for mining?
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May 01, 2015, 07:57:49 PM
Last edit: May 02, 2015, 10:03:01 AM by philipma1957
 #2

I am watching the video now.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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May 01, 2015, 08:11:28 PM
 #3

I have to say Elon Musk never fails to impress. Always coming up with awesome ideas.

He's is the only entrepreneur I would trust 100%.

Would be interesting to see if miners will pick this technology up.

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May 01, 2015, 08:22:38 PM
 #4

need more details his power pack holds 10kwatt for 8 hours of work

so if you run 4kwatts of miners  it should last 14-18 hours.  and your sunup is 10 to 14 hours.

very rough estimate would be 1 pack would let you run 4kwatts for 24/7

it cost 3500 usd. not count panels and or install cost.  I could not find the warranty.


10 cent power  4 kwatts  an hour is 10 cents x 100 = 10 dollars a day or 300 dollars per month or 3600 dollars a year.

Panels last long most everything lasts long.  except batteries.  if this has a 5 year rock solid warranty

It could work for miners.  If the warranty is 2 years I do not think it is good.


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May 01, 2015, 08:31:00 PM
 #5

It's probably not a great improvement if you already have some solar powered miners.
And if you don't, the only use I can find for it is to take profit of the low rates of electricity to charge the powerwall and power miners from it when you should have paid peak rates.
As for many things, I don't think investing in it for mining purpose alone can give some kind of ROI, but if you plan to use it to power you entire house, running 1000w of miners off it can help getting back some money.

The powerpack should be a better choice for mining, but I believe its cost won't allow any kind of ROI as long as it'll be used for mining purpose only.

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May 01, 2015, 08:32:53 PM
 #6

need more details his power pack holds 10kwatt for 8 hours of work

so if you run 4kwatts of miners  it should last 14-18 hours.  and your sunup is 10 to 14 hours.

very rough estimate would be 1 pack would let you run 4kwatts for 24/7

it cost 3500 usd. not count panels and or install cost.  I could not find the warranty.


10 cent power  4 kwatts  an hour is 10 cents x 100 = 10 dollars a day or 300 dollars per month or 3600 dollars a year.

Panels last long most everything lasts long.  except batteries.  if this has a 5 year rock solid warranty

It could work for miners.  If the warranty is 2 years I do not think it is good.



it's 10 years warranty, but you probably misread the kwh thing (or I did)
it's 10kwh, 2kw continuous, 3.3kw peak, so 2kw for 5 hours

http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall

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CanaryInTheMine
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May 01, 2015, 09:08:13 PM
 #7

They also have other larger units which may be cheaper that connecting a bunch of 10K units in parallel.
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May 01, 2015, 09:34:11 PM
 #8

They also have other larger units which may be cheaper that connecting a bunch of 10K units in parallel.

yes, it's the powerpack, but I'm not sure the price/kwh will be much better.
the lithium batteries are probably making 80% of the final price.

And you are limited to 9x 10kw powerwall linked together acting as one 90kw power source.
I'll do a small xls spreadsheet to check how long it'll take to ROI if I'd use one at home to charge during the night (low rate during 8 hours) and discharge during peak rate hours.
Don't forget you'll need to buy an inverter to power your house with this powerwall. It's outputing DC current.



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May 01, 2015, 09:45:21 PM
 #9

They also have other larger units which may be cheaper that connecting a bunch of 10K units in parallel.

yes, it's the powerpack, but I'm not sure the price/kwh will be much better.
the lithium batteries are probably making 80% of the final price.

And you are limited to 9x 10kw powerwall linked together acting as one 90kw power source.
I'll do a small xls spreadsheet to check how long it'll take to ROI if I'd use one at home to charge during the night (low rate during 8 hours) and discharge during peak rate hours.
Don't forget you'll need to buy an inverter to power your house with this powerwall. It's outputing DC current.

The answer is probably never. If we're talking $350/KWh currently, lets make up 'trade sized' unit for $200/KWh. So to run even just an Antminer S5 overnight its a $1200 investment just for the power storage. Now given they have 10 year warranties, and ignoring any degradation, we could say this unit will power 15 S5's or similar over its 10 year lifespan.

Investment per S5 is now $120 for the storage, nevermind the solar system or the inverter. If someone wants to take the analysis forwards then by all means.

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May 01, 2015, 10:23:38 PM
 #10

They also have other larger units which may be cheaper that connecting a bunch of 10K units in parallel.

yes, it's the powerpack, but I'm not sure the price/kwh will be much better.
the lithium batteries are probably making 80% of the final price.

And you are limited to 9x 10kw powerwall linked together acting as one 90kw power source.
I'll do a small xls spreadsheet to check how long it'll take to ROI if I'd use one at home to charge during the night (low rate during 8 hours) and discharge during peak rate hours.
Don't forget you'll need to buy an inverter to power your house with this powerwall. It's outputing DC current.



This isn't interesting right now, but as the factory comes online and prices come down (we don't know by how much obviously) due to mass production it will be... Many options become interesting... You could charge up at night when it's 2 cents on a smart meter and mine during peak times from the packs then switch to the grid etc... Other options become interesting as well.  I find it useful from the perspective of footprint as well... 
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May 01, 2015, 11:21:52 PM
 #11

They also have other larger units which may be cheaper that connecting a bunch of 10K units in parallel.

yes, it's the powerpack, but I'm not sure the price/kwh will be much better.
the lithium batteries are probably making 80% of the final price.

And you are limited to 9x 10kw powerwall linked together acting as one 90kw power source.
I'll do a small xls spreadsheet to check how long it'll take to ROI if I'd use one at home to charge during the night (low rate during 8 hours) and discharge during peak rate hours.
Don't forget you'll need to buy an inverter to power your house with this powerwall. It's outputing DC current.



This isn't interesting right now, but as the factory comes online and prices come down (we don't know by how much obviously) due to mass production it will be... Many options become interesting... You could charge up at night when it's 2 cents on a smart meter and mine during peak times from the packs then switch to the grid etc... Other options become interesting as well.  I find it useful from the perspective of footprint as well... 

If we assume:
  • 2c at night
  • 10c during the day
  • 10KWh capacity
  • 10 year warranty
  • no performance degradation
  • no additional hardware required
  • we max it out every day for 10 years

Then we 'save' $0.80 a day, $292 a year, $2920 over the lifetime. With current small units @ $3500 per 10KWh, its possible. How common are dual tariffs with such cheap night prices and normal day prices? In the UK we get higher day prices when lower high prices, which for mining even with storage doesn't get close to just a 'lowish' single tariff?

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May 01, 2015, 11:41:51 PM
 #12

What DC output voltage are we talking about? It might be interesting to hack power supplies to bypass active PFC and feed high-voltage DC directly into the main switchnodes. That'd give a decent conversion efficiency boost over using AC, especially 120V into KW-grade PSUs.

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May 01, 2015, 11:56:46 PM
 #13

I'm not sure I'm understanding what everyone's raving about.

Is this anything more than an expensive battery in a nice case?
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May 02, 2015, 12:34:08 AM
 #14

I'm not sure I'm understanding what everyone's raving about.

Is this anything more than an expensive battery in a nice case?

I'm in the same boat right now not understanding....watching the video now.

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May 02, 2015, 12:39:03 AM
 #15

I'm not sure I'm understanding what everyone's raving about.

Is this anything more than an expensive battery in a nice case?
http://www.wired.com/2015/05/get-tesla-home-battery-let-physics-explain/?mbid=nl_050115
Keep in mind, this is the first model... In a few yrs, price should be half with the factory running full steam.
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May 02, 2015, 12:56:03 AM
 #16

I'm not sure I'm understanding what everyone's raving about.

Is this anything more than an expensive battery in a nice case?

Cheaper per amp hour more likely after the  factory starts being built. Although you wouldn't see savings unless you're a massive farm compared to  grid prices for electricity and you would have to pay more upfront to see savings in 5 to 10 years with solar. Very risky today but soon enough it will be  standard.

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May 02, 2015, 07:50:58 AM
 #17

What DC output voltage are we talking about? It might be interesting to hack power supplies to bypass active PFC and feed high-voltage DC directly into the main switchnodes. That'd give a decent conversion efficiency boost over using AC, especially 120V into KW-grade PSUs.

Voltage
350 – 450 volts

so it's probably similar to a pack of 110 li-ion cells serial linked, if you assume 18650 cells @2.2kw

I'm not sure I'm understanding what everyone's raving about.

Is this anything more than an expensive battery in a nice case?

it's more or less that, a "nice" battery, but it's "large" and easily available. For those who need batteries for their solar/wind system, they may be something interesting, and easier to setup than the good old heavy lead batteries.
I don't know how is the price compared to the lead batteries with deep discharge needed.

What I'm more worrying about is the fact that li-ion cell are usually good for 5 years before they slowly die.

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May 02, 2015, 08:37:16 AM
Last edit: May 03, 2015, 12:38:51 PM by Bicknellski
 #18

Lot longer than 5 years lifepo4.

https://plus.google.com/+DacianTodea

Quote
Dacian Todea (electrodacus)Feb 24, 2015
+vensonata
I seen that thanks. They are more interested in improving the life on LiCoO2 and derivative since those have 2x the energy density of LiFePO4 and are better for applications where that is important like EV and mobile electronics (life is no issue in mobile electronics) but it is on EV.
LiFePO4 already has over 10k cycles if you do not use them to 100% DOD like Sony did in their tests and got over 6000k
Also in this applications 20 to 25 years is good enough any better will not help with anything at this point.
And the LiFePO4 is heavier lower energy density but for stationary solar energy storage is just perfect and much more safer than LiCoO2.
Love to have conversions with informed people like you Smiley
[/quote ]

What DC output voltage are we talking about? It might be interesting to hack power supplies to bypass active PFC and feed high-voltage DC directly into the main switchnodes. That'd give a decent conversion efficiency boost over using AC, especially 120V into KW-grade PSUs.

Voltage
350 – 450 volts

so it's probably similar to a pack of 110 li-ion cells serial linked, if you assume 18650 cells @2.2kw

I'm not sure I'm understanding what everyone's raving about.

Is this anything more than an expensive battery in a nice case?

it's more or less that, a "nice" battery, but it's "large" and easily available. For those who need batteries for their solar/wind system, they may be something interesting, and easier to setup than the good old heavy lead batteries.
I don't know how is the price compared to the lead batteries with deep discharge needed.

What I'm more worrying about is the fact that li-ion cell are usually good for 5 years before they slowly die.

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May 02, 2015, 08:50:32 AM
 #19

interesting, with it was a bit cheaper.  May be some area, someone could qualify for the government rebate or tax rebate or some kind of comp or investment tax write offs and use it for multi-purpose to get best ROI

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May 02, 2015, 10:07:40 AM
 #20

interesting, with it was a bit cheaper.  May be some area, someone could qualify for the government rebate or tax rebate or some kind of comp or investment tax write offs and use it for multi-purpose to get best ROI


30 percent rebates in New Jersey, but I think that ends this year.


I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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