[ANN] SpreadCoin | Decentralize Everything (decentralized blockexplorer coming)

[georgem]

Wait, is this the testnet? 

No, there is lots to do before the Big Breakthrough testnet will be ready.

Meanwhile, I thought it might be a good idea to create a few of those smaller experimental testnet versions.

There are many things to take a look at, and creating an experiment like the "muscleminer" took me about 2 days.

[1713922792]

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[1713922792]

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[coins101]

Might cause a few people problems....

[georgem]

Might cause a few people problems....

Thanks, I fixed it. Please redownload.

[coins101]

Might cause a few people problems....

Thanks, I fixed it. Please redownload.

that's worked and I think I'm finding blocks.

[coins101]

Works well.



The network average system seems to be doing its job.

Not sure you need so many decimal places, but it doesn't matter in the great scheme of things.

[coins101]

Do you need a base payment to service nodes to ensure the network has services running until the revenue from services can sustain SN?

If I wanted to shut down the network, I could fire up miners on AWS and make the average fall to below cost of running nodes.

[georgem]

EDIT: 1 hr later I increased Voting % to 100%, does that mean that ALL my mined SPR goes to SN? At what point are the SPR transferred from my mining wallet to the SN wallet?

No, if you vote 100%, then you are merely influencing the average % with it. And only for a 1/1440th part of the whole thing.
If you don't like the average you can upvote or downvote it with the maximum you are allowed,
OR you can keep voting the target value you would like to see, for example 10%, and eventually, if enough people do the same, it will actually go to 10%.

PS: how do I turn off the popup message box audio notification?

Hm, I don't know, is this a windows 8 / 10 thing?
I didn't add any sounds, but maybe your system is configured in a way that will play a sound when there is a popup?

PPS: is the source on git?

Coming...

[georgem]

Not sure you need so many decimal places, but it doesn't matter in the great scheme of things.

The decimal places are here to show you that your vote matters, lol 

[georgem]

Do you need a base payment to service nodes to ensure the network has services running until the revenue from services can sustain SN?

Good question, we have so many expected payments/rewards/profits entangled with "running a servicenode" we have to bring a little light into this mess:

First, everybody who runs a servicenode in the early days will see enough profit when their contribution helps push the price 10x or 100x.
I mean, if that isn't enough motivation for people to participate, then they are just greedy. But of course this is just valid through the early stage of price discovery.

Secondly, the endgoal is that in the future more sophisticated services will require that the user pays a fee for using such a service, which ofcourse is then shared among the servicenodes only. (miners will just get any tx fees involved, not servicenode fees)

Thirdly, we can think about certain open services which don't require a user to pay a fee, like the upcoming decentralized blockexplorer.
Anybody who runs a spreadcoin wallet can query servicenodes about blockdata of any coin that is available, and they don't need to pay a fee for every search. That would be ridiculous.
So those services are like non-commissioned services, meaning they don't represent a "specific order" submitted by a user for processing by the servicenodes.

Such services are "free of charge" services.

So, with this in mind, we have to ask again: what is the meaning of a "recurring reward"?
Is it just "icing on the cake"?

Yeah, I guess, and that's why I think this is the way to go: to create a free market for this "icing on the cake", which simultaneously motivates more people to do more solo mining, which is the heartbeat of our network.

So, the recurring reward we are talking about all the time is here to voluntarily "tip" servicenodes for all the "open services" they will provide.
This has nothing to do with any eventually more sophisticated services (which have to be rewarded accordingly), like for example getting a percentage of a trade done on the decentralized exchange or similar commissioned services.

[MrZillion]

Do you need a base payment to service nodes to ensure the network has services running until the revenue from services can sustain SN?

Good question, we have so many expected payments/rewards/profits entangled with "running a servicenode" we have to bring a little light into this mess:

Interesting, so Service Nodes could accommodate:

• Paid Premium Services: application specific services, big data services
• Free Services: block explorer, search, membership registration
• Community Services: messaging, marketplace, classifieds

Incomplete list of course. Perhaps we could create an easy to understand infographic?

[georgem]

Do you need a base payment to service nodes to ensure the network has services running until the revenue from services can sustain SN?

Good question, we have so many expected payments/rewards/profits entangled with "running a servicenode" we have to bring a little light into this mess:

Interesting, so Service Nodes could accommodate:

• Paid Premium Services: application specific services, big data services
• Free Services: block explorer, search, membership registration
• Community Services: messaging, marketplace, classifieds

Incomplete list of course. Perhaps we could create an easy to understand infographic?

Yeah, let the brain storming start. Just keep decentralization in mind.

[MrZillion]

Just keep decentralization in mind

Ok, let's set some development guidelines.

What is considered "decentralized" and what needs to be in place to be allowed on the Service Node Network?

[georgem]

Just keep decentralization in mind

What is considered "decentralized" and what needs to be in place to be allowed on the Service Node Network?

If you compare SPR with Dash,
we deliberately want to get rid of a fix required collateral (like 1000 DASH) that is needed to run a node and instead replace it with a competitive collateral.
(a single person/group can't be allowed to make such an important decision in the name of everybody else -> ergo SPR introduces decentralization through a free market price discovery).
We do this by not fixing the price of the collateral but the amount of available seats at any time, which creates competition through artificial scarcity.

A similar way of thinking is applied when we don't take a fix reward away from the miners to pay for services, (again, who among us can be allowed to make such an arbitrary decision in the name of everybody else? It's as centralized as a king making arbitrary demands.) but we rather let miners themselves influence the reward percentage.

And since everybody can mine, everybody has the opportunity to influence it according to his view.

It's as if Dash is all about "equality of outcome" (everybody is forced to accept arbitrary terms or leave)
while SPR is more about "equality of opportunity" (everybody gets to influence arbitrary parameters. You are not happy with it? Influence it!).

I'm specifically talking about arbitrary parameters here. Ofcourse lowlevel protocol stuff like max coin supply or blocktime etc should never be exposed to any voting process. (or shall we say: voting in this context means creating your own fork!)

So I guess, when I mention decentralization, I mean letting participants influence arbitrary parameters so that they feel empowered.
It also allows us to tie seemingly unrelated things (like increasing servicenode reward and incentivizing solo mining) together, if we come up with clever solutions to create "free markets" like that.

[georgem]

BTW, in the future, if we add miner voting to our coin, we should let their votes first mature (probably also 120 confirmations, like coinbase) before we count them (especially since this further influences how coins are spread).

I deliberately skipped this part in the current experiment, since it would just make everything more tedious to observe.

[rhinomonkey]

Looks great, Georgem!! I tried downloading the wallet at work and mined one block before I lost connection to peers - assuming this is bc of my work not bc of the wallet (log said "socket closed" after every attempt to open a port?).

Whenever the Mac version is out I will be able to try it at home!  

[georgem]

Looks great, Georgem!! I tried downloading the wallet at work and mined one block before I lost connection to peers - assuming this is bc of my work not bc of the wallet (log said "socket closed" after every attempt to open a port?).

Whenever the Mac version is out I will be able to try it at home!  

Thanks, connectivity will get better the more people participate.
You probably lost connection because nobody was mining anymore.
If we don't have atleast one guy mining, then there is no network, and it will appear as "no peers".

I will setup another server.

Mac, Linux, github coming up later today. Too much work, sorry!

[georgem]

my miner stopped mining, can't restart it... no error messages, just no hash power... probably nobody on the network?

I have 1 miner at home and 1 remote server running all the time now.

What peers to you see when you do a getpeerinfo?

And what current block nr does your wallet show right now?

[georgem]

yeah, I think we already have atleast 2 forks because of low participation (I've seen one stuck at block 500, and the other at 782), lol

Wait guys, I need to create a new blockchain and spread it over 2 servers and hardcode them into the wallet, or else this might repeat itself.

I might also add a checkpoint or two.

Please stop mining for now.

PS: It's also cool to learn about such things in realworld experiments, so thanks alot to whoever spends a few CPU cycles for this. Awesome!

[spready]

yeah, I think we already have atleast 2 forks because of low participation (I've seen one stuck at block 500, and the other at 782), lol

Wait guys, I need to create a new blockchain and spread it over 2 servers and hardcode them into the wallet, or else this might repeat itself.

I might also add a checkpoint or two.

Please stop mining for now.

PS: It's also cool to learn about such things in realworld experiments, so thanks alot to whoever spends a few CPU cycles for this. Awesome!

Shouldn't the clients just use the longest chain they find so the fork wouldn't matter? Just asking I really don't know  

[georgem]

yeah, I think we already have atleast 2 forks because of low participation (I've seen one stuck at block 500, and the other at 782), lol

Wait guys, I need to create a new blockchain and spread it over 2 servers and hardcode them into the wallet, or else this might repeat itself.

I might also add a checkpoint or two.

Please stop mining for now.

PS: It's also cool to learn about such things in realworld experiments, so thanks alot to whoever spends a few CPU cycles for this. Awesome!

Shouldn't the clients just use the longest chain they find so the fork wouldn't matter? Just asking I really don't know  

Ofcourse, ofcourse.

No, forget everything I said, I need to use my brain more.

It's just a stupid error!  

There was still an old checkpoint set in the code that expected block nr. 500 to be a certain hash. (goes back to mr. spread)
I forgot to remove those checkpoints, aahrg! And that's what created this mess.

Wait, I'll look over everything once more, and restart a new chain.