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Author Topic: BTC Mining Pools List  (Read 657269 times)
organofcorti
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October 26, 2016, 05:23:52 AM
 #1181

Since FUPool (Discus) is PPS minus some fee, I'm wondering if your profitability number on your blog isn't a mistake Smiley
You can't get more than "100%PPS minus the fee" from them no matter how lucky or unlucky they are.
Any extra profit is the pool's profit, not the miners.

Edit: and anyone using CraPPSRB would be limited to 100% ... ... if the luck ever got above that.

The profitability measurement ignores the reward method. Think of it as how profitable the pool is. Why bother for a PPS pool, you ask? All the dead PPS and PPS variant pools that were killed by bad luck. If a PPS pool has bad luck for a long time I'd want to get out quickly before I got 50BTC'd.


OK then you probably should word it differently coz it clearly reads as: you get paid more if it's higher:
Quote
Profitability = Actual reward per share /  Theoretical reward per share

Yeah, I'll probably change in to something like

Pool profitability = Actual reward to pool per share /  Theoretical reward to pool per share

Edit: e.g. even with the run in of recent bad luck on my pool, only one month has paid average worse than a 1.5% PPS fee (August)
(and that was only 3.16% below no fee PPS)

Edit2: heh actually I guess that's actually really very funny, that over 15PHs left coz the payout was only 1.33% below no fee PPS Cheesy (September)

I thought your miners had balls of steel?  Sheesh, back in my day I stayed on pools that were so unlucky, I had to pay them.

If some of you are puzzled by kano's "CrPPSRB" comment, these posts give a bit of back ground and information about SMPPS (a progenitor of CPPSRB):
http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2012/03/31-rise-and-fall-of-arsbitcoincom.html
http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2012/04/32-risks-of-smpps.html



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jonnybravo0311
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October 26, 2016, 03:56:34 PM
 #1182

I think the problem with "CrPPSRB" lies in its presentation.  People see that they are being paid back shares when the pool is lucky and think they're making out.  What is glossed over (and kano clearly points out), is that the absolute theoretical max reward is 100%.  You can never, ever go above that value because at its heart, it's a PPS system.  With PPLNS, you can "make up" for swings in bad luck by having swings of good luck.  Using kano's pool as an example, you can see from the monthly statistics that while August and September were "bad", March, April, May, June, July and October were good.  The pool's lifetime is 105.04%.  Same holds true with my own pool.  Although, with the small hash rate, I'm far more susceptible to swings of variance, to date my pool is running 105.74%.  You simply cannot ever achieve that on any PPS variant.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
organofcorti
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October 26, 2016, 08:47:59 PM
 #1183

I think the problem with "CrPPSRB" lies in its presentation.  People see that they are being paid back shares when the pool is lucky and think they're making out.  What is glossed over (and kano clearly points out), is that the absolute theoretical max reward is 100%.  You can never, ever go above that value because at its heart, it's a PPS system.  With PPLNS, you can "make up" for swings in bad luck by having swings of good luck.  Using kano's pool as an example, you can see from the monthly statistics that while August and September were "bad", March, April, May, June, July and October were good.  The pool's lifetime is 105.04%.  Same holds true with my own pool.  Although, with the small hash rate, I'm far more susceptible to swings of variance, to date my pool is running 105.74%.  You simply cannot ever achieve that on any PPS variant.

I agree. A big difference between public perceptions of PPS-var and luck based reward methods is that people expect full payment for shares under PPS-var, whereas people expect that only in the long term for luck based pools.

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kano
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October 27, 2016, 01:43:41 AM
 #1184

Actually there's another big factor you left out, that is also by design in bitcoin.
Txn Fees.
PPS doesn't include them of course - whereas PPLNS pools like mine and Jonny's do include them in the reward.
e.g. the last 5 blocks on my pool right now have an average TxnFee of 7% on top of the block reward of 12.5BTC
Even for the last 50 blocks it's averaged 4%

(Edit: of course with each halving it becomes more and more important - by design)

That is another major perception mistake on mining in Chinese pools and all PPS pools in general.
I say 'Chinese' pools coz almost all of the mining in China is either PPS or PPLNS without transaction fees.
Pretty much almost all empty blocks are now produced by Chinese pools also.

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
organofcorti
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October 27, 2016, 04:39:54 AM
 #1185

Actually there's another big factor you left out, that is also by design in bitcoin.
Txn Fees.
PPS doesn't include them of course - whereas PPLNS pools like mine and Jonny's do include them in the reward.
e.g. the last 5 blocks on my pool right now have an average TxnFee of 7% on top of the block reward of 12.5BTC
Even for the last 50 blocks it's averaged 4%

(Edit: of course with each halving it becomes more and more important - by design)

That is another major perception mistake on mining in Chinese pools and all PPS pools in general.
I say 'Chinese' pools coz almost all of the mining in China is either PPS or PPLNS without transaction fees.
Pretty much almost all empty blocks are now produced by Chinese pools also.

No, I'm including tx fees.

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ricshaw453
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November 03, 2016, 04:59:19 PM
 #1186

Hi,
I'm a new btc miner.  I'm currently looking for pools to mine to.  I'm looking at btc.com and it shows that f2pool.com, antpool.com, pool.btcc.com and bitfury.com as the largest pool thus getting most blocks.  Why aren't these on the list?  Where can I find what their fees are?  What do you guys think of them?  Thanks.
jonnybravo0311
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November 03, 2016, 06:47:52 PM
 #1187

I'm biased because I run my own pool.

However, all of the choices you've listed are pools that use mining cheats (i.e. SPV mining and empty blocks).  Further, there are hidden fees associated with those pools.  For example, Antpool might say they're a 0% PPLNS pool... however, they keep all block transaction fees for themselves.  Currently, the average is about 4%.

Please don't confuse "biggest" with "best".

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
DrHaribo
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November 03, 2016, 09:26:58 PM
 #1188

Discus Fish, which you see on the list, is an alias for F2pool.

jonnybravo0311 is right, the "pay tx reward" column is a very important one now. In the case of Discus Fish, the 4% fee becomes roughly 8% when you count the lost income from transaction fees.

By the way, GHash.io has been shut down and can be removed from the list.

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com - Your trusted mining pool since 2011.
organofcorti
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November 05, 2016, 06:07:01 AM
 #1189

Hi,
I'm a new btc miner.  I'm currently looking for pools to mine to.  I'm looking at btc.com and it shows that f2pool.com, antpool.com, pool.btcc.com and bitfury.com as the largest pool thus getting most blocks.  Why aren't these on the list?  Where can I find what their fees are?  What do you guys think of them?  Thanks.

As DrH mentions, f2pool == "Discus fish", the first name by which we knew the pool. Bitfury.com isn't a pool but a private mining concern.

antpool.com and pool.btcc.com will be added as soon as a pool op posts here using the correct format to add the data to the list.

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os2sam
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November 10, 2016, 11:13:00 AM
 #1190


Ok, I will try which is the best and I will buy new cpu to mine too.😀
CPU mining went the way of the dinosaur going on six years ago.  So I wouldn't bother buying a new CPU just for Bitcoin Mining.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
organofcorti
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November 11, 2016, 02:16:55 AM
 #1191


Ok, I will try which is the best and I will buy new cpu to mine too.😀
CPU mining went the way of the dinosaur going on six years ago.  So I wouldn't bother buying a new CPU just for Bitcoin Mining.

cpu might mean "central prospecting unit"

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kano
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November 11, 2016, 03:15:53 AM
 #1192

Hey OoC can you remove btc.mining-pool.io ?
He's also running a solo mining pool using the same domain, that turns out is 100% a scam.
If you mine to the scam solo, the coinbase in the work you get points to a user mining on FUPool.
Someone has (unfortunately) already found a block on the scam solo and of course got nothing.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1675588.0

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
os2sam
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November 11, 2016, 03:54:01 AM
 #1193


Ok, I will try which is the best and I will buy new cpu to mine too.😀
CPU mining went the way of the dinosaur going on six years ago.  So I wouldn't bother buying a new CPU just for Bitcoin Mining.

cpu might mean "central prospecting unit"


I think those were obsoleted by the "General Prospecting Unit's"

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
organofcorti
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November 11, 2016, 05:03:29 AM
 #1194

Hey OoC can you remove btc.mining-pool.io ?
He's also running a solo mining pool using the same domain, that turns out is 100% a scam.
If you mine to the scam solo, the coinbase in the work you get points to a user mining on FUPool.
Someone has (unfortunately) already found a block on the scam solo and of course got nothing.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1675588.0

Also removed solo.mining-pool.io. I've emailed the pool op analpaper, I'll be interested to see if they respond.


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organofcorti
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November 11, 2016, 05:13:24 AM
 #1195


Ok, I will try which is the best and I will buy new cpu to mine too.😀
CPU mining went the way of the dinosaur going on six years ago.  So I wouldn't bother buying a new CPU just for Bitcoin Mining.

cpu might mean "central prospecting unit"


I think those were obsoleted by the "General Prospecting Unit's"

Which were in turn made obsolete by the Automatic Shovelling Integrated Circuit

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os2sam
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November 11, 2016, 11:47:40 AM
 #1196


Ok, I will try which is the best and I will buy new cpu to mine too.😀
CPU mining went the way of the dinosaur going on six years ago.  So I wouldn't bother buying a new CPU just for Bitcoin Mining.

cpu might mean "central prospecting unit"


I think those were obsoleted by the "General Prospecting Unit's"

Which were in turn made obsolete by the Automatic Shovelling Integrated Circuit

Which in turn requires a more efficient shovel every 3 to 6 months.

I miss the GPU days.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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November 11, 2016, 12:41:31 PM
 #1197

Hello im Carles Tubio (admin of solo.mining-pool.io),

issue saddly confirmed, im taking down the solo pool NOW and will investigate the issue this weekend.

will post soon at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1675588.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104664.msg16840084#msg16840084

Thank you for the private message organofcorti !
kano
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November 11, 2016, 12:59:24 PM
 #1198

...

Which were in turn made obsolete by the Automatic Shovelling Integrated Circuit

Which in turn requires a more efficient shovel every 3 to 6 months.

I miss the GPU days.
Yeah GPU's lasted ... 18 months? ... and they upgraded ... 3? times Smiley
They upgraded again once ASICs took over, but of course no one did coz they were too slow.

Yeah the good old days ... you could way more than 50% the network back then with two current 14TH/s miners Smiley

Around the start of 2013 when ASICs arrived:
Difficulty was ~3M so Bitcoin network was: 3,000,000 / 600 * 2^32 = ~21.5TH/s

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
kano
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November 11, 2016, 01:03:50 PM
 #1199

Hello im Carles Tubio (admin of solo.mining-pool.io),

issue saddly confirmed, im taking down the solo pool NOW and will investigate the issue this weekend.

will post soon at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1675588.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104664.msg16840084#msg16840084

Thank you for the private message organofcorti !
What's to investigate?

You even put the code in your git for doing exactly what you did.
Redirect miners to another pool.

Here:
https://github.com/ctubio/php-proxy-stratum

One block found by one miner to your solo - you sent the work to FUPool and he found an FUPool block so got nothing from you
then after that happened you continued to send solo work to FUPool but changed it to a new username.

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
analpaper
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November 12, 2016, 06:00:02 PM
 #1200

Hello im Carles Tubio (admin of solo.mining-pool.io),

issue saddly confirmed, im taking down the solo pool NOW and will investigate the issue this weekend.

will post soon at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1675588.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104664.msg16840084#msg16840084

Thank you for the private message organofcorti !
What's to investigate?

You even put the code in your git for doing exactly what you did.
Redirect miners to another pool.

Here:
https://github.com/ctubio/php-proxy-stratum

One block found by one miner to your solo - you sent the work to FUPool and he found an FUPool block so got nothing from you
then after that happened you continued to send solo work to FUPool but changed it to a new username.

my reply at: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1667999
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