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Author Topic: Economic Totalitarianism  (Read 345115 times)
thatbluedude
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May 11, 2015, 04:22:58 PM
 #141

@anonymint
this might be terribly naive but coudn't you show some trustet (and NDAd) (altcoin)dev(s) for free?
If recieved favourably by people who actually understand crypto guts shouldn't you get that amount by donations alone?
I know I would kick some monero your way if you asked under these conditions.

 

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TPTB_need_war
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May 11, 2015, 09:16:24 PM
 #142

Note Peter R replied to this and stated he was just joking...

Russian Finance Minister:

Mr. Putin, the Americans have a cryptocurrency expert advising the White House.  

Vladimir Putin:

Is this significant?

Russian Finance Minister:

I'm not sure.  The Ministry's initial research suggested this new currency "bitcoin" was a passing fad--just a harmless toy.  We're no longer convinced that's the case.

Vladimir Putin:

We need to learn more about this "bitcoin" and what might be the plans of the Americans...

Peter R, seriously don't you see that Putin vs. Obama is a scripted show for the masses to drool over. The global elite are pulling the strings, the same as they did with the Bolsheviks and then handing power to the oligarchs after the fall of the Communism they created. Some homework for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sah_Xni-gtg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Ac7ap_MAY

The elite in every country are aligned with the current move towards a global Technocracy.

Being ignorant (Cypherdoc) of these facts doesn't impress me. Not any more than I would be impressed that someone doesn't know all the facts surrounding 9/11 such as the letter from the SEC to Martin Armstrong confirming that all the tapes he had recorded of the malfeasance of the banksters had been held of the WTC and destroyed. Climb down the rabbit hole and study the facts, not the diversionary bullshit about UFOs, etc..

TPTB_need_war
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May 11, 2015, 09:19:37 PM
 #143

@anonymint
this might be terribly naive but coudn't you show some trustet (and NDAd) (altcoin)dev(s) for free?

Could you reword that so I can clearly comprehend?

Are you suggesting I produce a description of what I want to work on that can be seen after committing to a NDA?

Edit: seems you are asking if I can reveal in the public some trusted devs who will work with me?

minor-transgression
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May 11, 2015, 10:00:18 PM
 #144

@ORO ... 6. All your IP are belong to us ...

http://nationalcan.ning.com/video/paypal-assert-copyright-ownership-of-all-intellectual-property

And automobile companies want cars "sold" as software ...

the list just keeps getting longer :-(
OROBTC
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May 12, 2015, 01:10:24 AM
Last edit: May 12, 2015, 01:59:11 AM by OROBTC
 #145

...

minor-transgression

What a great case of Economic Totalitarianism.  Highly recommended reading for anyone who has to deal with PayPal.

Fortunately our company uses old-fashioned methods like "wire transfers" to pay our suppliers and things like "cash" and "checks" from our (Peruvian) customers.

If our company (and our accountant re advising us how to deal with Peru's .gov) and our suppliers and customers can get to BTC, well great!  Unless PayPal tries to say it is theirs.

Yeah, PayPal, Molon Labe our sales data...

*   *   *

Old cars may make a comeback...  Or not (Cash-for-Clunkers), hmm, maybe yet another conspiracy...?
TPTB_need_war
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May 12, 2015, 01:52:51 AM
Last edit: May 14, 2015, 01:35:56 AM by TPTB_need_war
 #146

I have one question for goldbugs. Have you ever tested your theory that there will always be a physical blackmarket? I mean have ever really tried to sell some of your gold not at a dealer.

France has already cracked down on gold, cash, and crypto. Eventually the governments can force all the dealers to report all transactions and expropriate there.

So where do you sell your gold?

And if we are in a severe economic collapse meaning most of the people are suffering economically, selling some gold to someone who is not an established dealer will risk:

1. It is a setup to mug you.
2. It is a government sting to entrap you.
3. Gossip spreads you have gold and marks you as a man/household to mug frequently.

Fantasizing about barter is loony. The youth will grab crypto and their smartphone before contemplating inefficient barter. Currency is a convenience (over barter). People only move to barter if there is no other choice. Ferfal confirms this from experience in Argentina's collapse.

The powers that be are going to leave Bitcoin pretty much open to nefarious activities until it is already adopted as the alternative to barter during this era of financial repression. Once it is too well established as the only crypto that is widely accepted by merchants, then they can start to use the public ledger to expropriate without fear that we nerds can leave en masse. At that point they can close the loopholes we currently use to obtain anonymity on Bitcoin, such as eliminating all unregistered connections to the internet, e.g. no more unregistered WiFi connections and no more unregistered 3G USB dongles. I have been observing the moves they are making to eliminate these options. For example here in the Philippines where we do have unregistered 3G USB dongles, there is a proposed law to make that illegal and also one of the 3 telcom networks (Globe) recently stopped selling simcards with a preset #. Now you have to registered the sim to get a # (so far the registration is over the wire and no name required yet I see this as preparatory step).

If we are going to develop an alternative to Bitcoin which can be anonymous in spite of anything the authorities can do, then we need to do it now because we have to build use value in that coin before it is too late to.

Monero has onchain mixing which is one aspect of anonymity we need. But it doesn't have IP obfuscation and I assert Tor/I2P are compromised because they are low-latency designs, limited number of onion layer hops, and because they have exit nodes (and some other reasons especially around hidden services). The authorities were able to unmask 100s of Tor hidden services. So once the authorities close the loopholes I mentioned above, then we no longer have a way to propagate data anonymously. This must be fixed pronto. Tor needs to be replaced with something that is more suited to the absolute anonymity we need. All crypto-coins will benefit. Also I relayed to smooth and others that I am concerned about  combinatorial attack on the ring sigs in Monero, because the mixing is not adequately structured. I have not followed all issues since relaying that, so I can't make any definitive statement now (perhaps I raise a non-issue and I have no desire to propagate FUD against Monero so pleeeassseee), but I will dig back into that aspect eventually.

Also afaics (correct me if I am wrong) Monero's primary use case at this time is (as always speculation in an altcoin and) as a decentralized mixer and then back to Bitcoin again. I don't think it has any widespread adoption as a currency.

If we are going to get any use as currency for an altcoin that is not Bitcoin, then it needs to have a compelling currency use case that Bitcoin can't do. I have an idea. I already wrote about it publicly on this forum under one of my other user names. I am not going to mention it again, because I might be moving into implementation mode and I'd prefer it to be somewhat dubious (plausible deniability) as to what if any thing I was a developer on.

I am interested to consider the tradeoffs of working with Monero but afaik their business model was not to retain any coins to incentivize developers. Their business model appears to me be Communist. They wanted in their marketing to state that it is the most fair coin because there is no premine nor any ongoing minting to pay developers. So I assume the devs either bought the coin out of their own savings (and suffered for it so far) or they had the early dibs on mining (for example I've read that the guy who optimized the PoW hash code apparently netted himself $100,000 due to having an advantage on mining for a short period of time?). How does someone work with Monero and earn a good ROI?

I'd prefer to be upfront and transparent about the funding of the creators and ongoing development, than leave people wondering. I understand there is an unofficial Monero foundation of sorts formed where donations could be aggregated and parceled out for funding development, marketing, etc.. Who wants to be at the mercy of donations? Not me. That is politics, ripe for corruption, political cat fighting, the need to compromise leadership to least common denominator of groupthink, etc..

TPTB_need_war
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May 12, 2015, 02:15:27 AM
 #147

Fortunately our company uses old-fashioned methods like "wire transfers" to pay our suppliers and things like "cash" and "checks" from our (Peruvian) customers.

If our company (and our accountant re advising us how to deal with Peru's .gov) and our suppliers and customers can get to BTC, well great!  Unless PayPal tries to say it is theirs.

Yeah, PayPal, Molon Labe our sales data...

You lack foresight. Of course the powers-that-be will force you into the same sort of user agreement every where you transact. For example, they can eliminate cash and checks and your bank can integrate with Paypal or one of the other behemoths. And other scenarios...

BTC is being taken over by these behemoths. Have you not been reading my upthread posts.

Old cars may make a comeback...  Or not (Cash-for-Clunkers), hmm, maybe yet another conspiracy...?

Moving backwards into gold, barter, and old things where we have to blacksmith our own replacement parts out of bubble gum and duck tape is not what people will choose. You earn a living on providing people with convenience not with moving backwards towards the  Stone Age.

celestio
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May 12, 2015, 02:20:45 AM
 #148

I have one question for goldbugs. Have you ever tested your theory that there will always be a physical blackmarket? I mean have ever really tried to sell some of your gold not at a dealer.

France has already cracked down on gold and cash. Eventually the governments can force all the dealers to report all transactions and expropriate there.

So where do you sell your gold?

And if we are in a severe economic collapse meaning most of the people are suffering economicaly, selling some gold to someone who is not an established dealer will risk:

1. It is a setup to mug you.
2. It is a government sting to entrap you.
3. Gossip spreads you have gold and marks you as a man/household to mug frequently.

Fantasizing about barter is loony. The youth will grab crypto and their smartphone before contemplating inefficient barter. Currency is a convenience (over barter). People only move to barter if there is no other choice. Ferfal confirms this from experience in Argentina's collapse.

The powers that be are going to leave Bitcoin pretty much open to nefarious activities until it is already adopted as the alternative to barter during this era of financial repression. Once it is too well established as the only crypto that is widely accepted by merchants, then they can start to use the public ledger to expropriate without fear that we nerds can leave en masse. At that point they can close the loopholes we currently use to obtain anonymity on Bitcoin, such as eliminating all unregistered connections to the internet, e.g. no more unregistered WiFi connections and no more unregistered 3G USB dongles. I have been observing the moves they are making to eliminate these options. For example here in the Philippines where we do have unregistered 3G USB dongles, there is a proposed law to make that illegal and also one of the 3 telcom networks (Globe) recently stopped selling simcards with a preset #. Now you have to registered the sim to get a # (so far the registration is over the wire and no name required yet I see this as preparatory step).

If we are going to develop an alternative to Bitcoin which can be anonymous in spite of anything the authorities can do, then we need to do it now because we have to build use value in that coin before it is too late to.

Monero has onchain mixing which is one aspect of anonymity we need. But it doesn't have IP obfuscation and I assert Tor/I2P are compromised because they are low-latency designs, limited number of onion layer hops, and because they have exit nodes (and some other reasons especially around hidden services). The authorities were able to unmask 100s of Tor hidden services. So once the authorities close the loopholes I mentioned above, then we no longer have a way to propagate data anonymously. This must be fixed pronto. Tor needs to be replaced with something that is more suited to the absolute anonymity we need. All crypto-coins will benefit. Also I relayed to smooth and others that I am concerned about  combinatorial attack on the ring sigs in Monero, because the mixing is not adequately structured. I have not followed all issues since relaying that, so I can't make any definitive statement now (perhaps I raise a non-issue and I have no desire to propagate FUD against Monero so pleeeassseee), but I will dig back into that aspect eventually.

Also afaics (correct me if I am wrong) Monero's primary use case at this time is (as always speculation in an altcoin and) as a decentralized mixer and then back to Bitcoin again. I don't think it has any widespread adoption as a currency.

If we are going to get any use as currency for an altcoin that is not Bitcoin, then it needs to have a compelling currency use case that Bitcoin can't do. I have an idea. I already wrote about it publicly on this forum under one of my other user names. I am not going to mention it again, because I might be moving into implementation mode and I'd prefer it to be somewhat dubious (plausible deniability) as to what if any thing I was a developer on.

I am interested to consider the tradeoffs of working with Monero but afaik their business model was not to retain any coins to incentivize developers. Their business model appears to me be Communist. They wanted in their marketing to state that it is the most fair coin because there is no premine nor any ongoing minting to pay developers. So I assume the devs either bought the coin out of their own savings (and suffered for it so far) or they had the early dibs on mining (for example I've read that the guy who optimized the PoW hash code apparently netted himself $100,000 due to having an advantage on mining for a short period of time?). How does someone work with Monero and earn a good ROI?

I'd prefer to be upfront and transparent about the funding of the creators and ongoing development, than leave people wondering. I understand there is an unofficial Monero foundation of sorts formed where donations could be aggregated and parceled out for funding development, marketing, etc.. Who wants to be at the mercy of donations? Not me. That is politics, ripe for corruption, political cat fighting, the need to compromise leadership to least common denominator of groupthink, etc..

Besides decentralization, anonymity/privacy is the most important aspect if I'm correct. For Ex: a FBI agent who laundered bitcoins he stole from DPR was recently caught with the help of blockchain anaylsis(Now that's a good thing, but goes to show just traceable Bitcoin is), etc etc etc.

The problem of course is the funding. It could be solved by donating to achieve certain tasks, or having donations done as salaries on a year by year basis and the donators get their names on a plaque or "official" website or on the github page, etc etc. Maybe even a reward such as a physical, collectible, monero coin for (x) amount of donations. In my view, having no premine, instamine/tampering of the "core features" is what's needed in a decentralized cryptocurrency, otherwise the average person won't trust it. It's not like it's centralized where such things can just be rooted out by a central authority.

"The nature of Bitcoin is such that once version 0.1 was released, the core design was set in stone for the rest of its lifetime" - Satoshi Nakamoto, June 17, 2010
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May 12, 2015, 02:28:14 AM
Last edit: May 12, 2015, 03:40:48 AM by TPTB_need_war
 #149

The problem of course is the funding. It could be solved by donating to achieve certain tasks, or having donations done as salaries on a year by year basis and the donators get their names on a plaque or "official" website or on the github page, etc etc. Maybe even a reward such as a physical, collectible, monero coin for (x) amount of donations.

The best developers don't work for peanuts nor silly badges. We have many other more lucrative offers where we have more equity stake, control, and motivation.

In my view, having no premine, instamine/tampering of the "core features" is what's needed in a decentralized cryptocurrency, otherwise the average person won't trust it. It's not like it's centralized where such things can just be rooted out by a central authority.

It is unlikely to have something competitive that exists without any leadership. That nirvana you describe appears to me to be communism.

The average person trusts Paypal which is 100% premined and 100% tampering of the core features.

I believe what drives trust is transparency, i.e. open source and redundant independent oversight.

Besides decentralization, anonymity/privacy is the most important aspect if I'm correct.

I posit that without a currency use case that Bitcoin can't do, it is all for naught.

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May 12, 2015, 03:47:09 AM
 #150

On totalitarianism, i don't believe australia will be a safe haven in the coming disaster.

The elite here know what is coming and they have been preparing for it in overdrive, firstly by bold lies about multiple home grown terror attacks being foiled by internet spying followed up with multiple arrests, yet no information exists on those arrested and their trials will be media blacked out.

$500 000 000 is being invested into online "security" announced for this years budget.

Border control/ customs / immigration staff to be armed by 2016.

police are to be suited in bullet proof armour and accompanied by a partner at all times on the job.

very strange considering the population was disarmed DECADES ago.

the tax office can now mortgage your property and freeze your bank account to secure tax "debts"

the tax office is creating debts out of thin air, I personally have experienced this, they simply send you a bill and say you owe this amount from several years ago, pay by this date or face prosecution.

this is just the icing on the cake too.

the scary thing is the masses lap this shit up like gravy, i have been trying to convince my wife to move back to asia because I have sincere fears for our safety.

if aussie land was on your list of safe havens, cross it off.

peace  Cool


6561742061206469636b
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May 12, 2015, 03:59:27 AM
 #151

I also read on Armstrong's blog that under certain circumstances they can prevent you from traveling abroad if you have certain debts.

In the USA, they can cancel your passport if you are $2500 late on child support payments. And they are attempting to pass a law that if you owe the IRS money they can cancel your passport. And remember the IRS gestapo can issue assessments you might disagree with.

OROBTC, I would be very frightened about being a US citizen and having financial interest in a foreign business. If I had the means, I would have long ago relinquished my US citizenship to give me distance from the IRS gestapo.

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May 12, 2015, 04:05:25 AM
 #152

...

mikelitoris

One of my "internet friends" left Oz for..., brace yourself: Paraguay.  So far so good I hear.

I had heard rumblings of such things in Australia a year or two before.  Oz may be "leading the way" to see what works, so they can impose it then upon America.  Not strange at all that the populace was disarmed FIRST, then the velvet fist comes down.  Best of luck.



TPTB and CoinCube

You each have a (the same) PM.
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May 12, 2015, 05:16:53 AM
 #153

OROBTC,

Bcz u can't leave the USA (bcz ... personal reasons), that is the reason u really need someone to succeed technologically. If the freedom fighters have the tools to work with, they can reform and resist the totalitarianism which can open other avenues such as possibly making gold still viable.

Whereas, if TPTB are unchallenged technologically, then there is a great chance all of you will suffer including your offspring.

I think it would be a huge mistake to abandon crypto-currency and go 100% old world assets.

P.S. I don't think God can help you in this situation because the Bible even says these things are coming (e.g. the 666 can't transact, will throw gold & silver into the streets, the Tribulations). God is some unfalsifiable faith about afterlife. It doesn't have anything much to do with this life other than apparently causing people to not think realistically and to get caught up in mind control. Sorry to give you more stress because what you want now is to enjoy all that you've achieved and work for. I guess leave the technological battle to us younger nerds to wage (but apparently I am only 7 years younger than you  Undecided).

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May 12, 2015, 06:41:31 AM
Last edit: May 12, 2015, 07:10:50 AM by username18333
 #154

If the freedom fighters have the tools to work with, they can reform and resist the totalitarianism which can open other avenues such as possibly making gold still viable.

Would your “freedom fighters” have their own global telecommunications network? (Big-Telecom probably isn’t too keen on helping to end the global, undeclared plutocracy [i.e., your “the totalitarianism”] whereto it is a party.)

Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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May 12, 2015, 06:28:25 PM
 #155

this might be terribly naive but coudn't you show some trustet (and NDAd) (altcoin)dev(s) for free?
Could you reword that so I can clearly comprehend?
Are you suggesting I produce a description of what I want to work on that can be seen after committing to a NDA?
basically yes. I imagine getting some reputable coder to say "I saw his idea, it's a really new way of thinking and an interesting concept" to be an important step.
remember it's the first follower that turns a lone nutjob into a leader
Edit: seems you are asking if I can reveal in the public some trusted devs who will work with me?
not what I meant to say but seems to be the next logical step after see above
Quote from: TPTB_need_war
The best developers don't work for peanuts nor silly badges. We have many other more lucrative offers where we have more equity stake, control, and motivation.
Startup founders (sometimes) do. Unlike them you won't end up owning the company (and probably neither a stash as big as satoshis) but you will have very valuable knowledge that should make you filthy rich if you do so desire.
What I've said doesn't solve any funding prolems by itself but maybe getting a first endorsement might give that first impulse to get everything going1


1 disclaimer: I am neither rich nor an experienced investor and therefore have no idea how those people think. Though if I were rich and thought it reasonably likely that your idea is as good as you claim I would thow a few k your way just for the promise for a few hours of your time at a time of my choosing.
also if I should ever use your coin I pledge to send you .2% off all transactions made with it within 10 years of release.
I'm cheap I know. anybody else as cheap?
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May 12, 2015, 11:16:26 PM
 #156

...

Despite his gruff exterior, I have to hand TPTB a big "+ 1" for making Armstrong better known to or community.

Like Armstrong or not, his breadth of history and his BROAD financial knowledge in general is very hard to beat.

He has a free blog, now part of my daily reading:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/armstrong_economics_blog


Alas, he offers few practical solutions (like how to get income, etc.).  Still, all of his knowledge goes into my mental hopper each day now.  Highly recommended.
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May 13, 2015, 04:10:31 AM
 #157

Quote from: TPTB_need_war
The best developers don't work for peanuts nor silly badges. We have many other more lucrative offers where we have more equity stake, control, and motivation.
Startup founders (sometimes) do.

They do (and I have done several times) because they are getting equity (e.g. stock options or in this case coins). Note I have been rich in the past. I am financially strained due to several years of declining productivity and poor planning due in hindsight to suffering from Multiple Sclerosis and not knowing what it was I was suffering from. Now that I have a cure underway (high dose vitamin D3), my former capabilities are returning. M.S. attacks the brain.

I may have the ability to do this all myself to reach the IPO and/or mining launch.

I am not going after the IPO investors right now. I would of course have to make a convincing public display if so.

I might take on some seed investors who trust me, because I want their support for the coin and a little cash cushion might be wise to insure I don't fail due to some financial emergency interim.

I don't think any devs will work with me until the coin is released into open source and they see already the momentum. Devs are notoriously fickle.

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May 13, 2015, 04:21:23 AM
Last edit: May 13, 2015, 04:37:03 AM by TPTB_need_war
 #158

Despite his gruff exterior,

Because it appears you lack understanding of technical aspects and of the fundamental change coming, I find I am slightly annoyed (or just realizing I need to move on) by your nonchalant attitude.

You ask me to communicate in email and I tell you it is not secure and the NSA can record everything. I offered a simple website for encrypted chat, and seems that is too much effort for you. Any way no bad feelings. I like you as a person. Just trying to get a job done pronto and efficiently.

I see a "code red alert" that needs a Herculian effort and focus. I am deprioritizing the lazy or people who think life is like a beach. I love to relax and go to the beach, but this is not the right time to do that.

In short, I am very high strung right now and will remain so until I achieve my goals. Then I will relax. I am a very goal oriented and extremely competitive person. When I focus on something, I will win with very last ounce of my effort even I don't sleep for days on end.

You are perceiving my competitive fire as gruff. Actually i am very nice and calm person when I am not competing. When I am competing, you can imagine Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. I have their demeanor when I am in competitive action mode.

And I am not particularly thrilled to have Marxists as investors who think my work is only a temporary need to address an overshoot of the current socialism. Ideally I want investors who truly believe in decentralization as the wave of the Knowledge Age upon us.

Alas, he offers few practical solutions (like how to get income, etc.).  Still, all of his knowledge goes into my mental hopper each day now.  Highly recommended.

There is no way to get passive income any more. I am telling you either you learn to change, or you slowly burn to destitute over the next 2 decades.

Everything is changing.

I offered you the investment of a lifetime and you snubbed it. My goal now is that you will tell your grandchildren you could have invested and been a $multi-millionaire.

Any way, i don't need any more. I need to move forward. This may be my last reply.

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May 13, 2015, 04:35:36 AM
 #159

...

EDIT: I meant no offense.

/EDIT


Then take care TPTB, I wish you all the very best.  Good luck!

Our world NEEDS the very best.  So, we all hope that your work reaches the light of the day.

I'll irk you no more.  
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May 13, 2015, 06:18:13 AM
 #160

Same sentiments to you to OROBTC. You are not really irking me. This is a battle with myself and need to focus it there and not externally. In that respect, your criticism is accurate. I guess I've been behaving like a retired Michael Jordan who wishes he could still do, but instead can only talk and thus frustrates himself on people are not doing what he used to be able to do. Fortunately I think I can still do with my M.S. waning.

We would get along fine if I was relaxing in West Texas as I used to do and striking up chitchats with anyone.

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