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Author Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion?  (Read 899837 times)
jaysabi
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May 28, 2015, 03:34:36 PM
 #521

but i would like to ask to an atheist what happens after death?
Lots of things, but none of them will involve you. The universe keeps spinning totally indifferent to your existence, as if you never existed at all.

The universe won't care, and you won't care either. Only your loved ones will be affected.

what happens to YOU. not the universe because thats obvious

Nothing happens to you. The same way nothing was happening to you for billions of years before you were born. Everything after you die, from your perspective, will be exactly the same as it was before you were born.
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May 28, 2015, 03:35:57 PM
 #522

So this guy is claiming he remembers things from before he had a working brain, and you guys are STILL feeding the troll?



Of course, neither you or anybody else can prove that there isn't consciousness without the brain. So where is your evidence that there isn't thinking without the brain?

I think you'll find the burden of proof falls on you with this one.

That's half of what I have done with my above response in this post. The other half isn't really provable either way, except by the common law of the United States of America.

Smiley

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May 28, 2015, 03:39:02 PM
 #523

but i would like to ask to an atheist what happens after death?
Lots of things, but none of them will involve you. The universe keeps spinning totally indifferent to your existence, as if you never existed at all.

The universe won't care, and you won't care either. Only your loved ones will be affected.

what happens to YOU. not the universe because thats obvious

Nothing happens to you. The same way nothing was happening to you for billions of years before you were born. Everything after you die, from your perspective, will be exactly the same as it was before you were born.

Well, first off, nobody knows that there were billions of years...

The universe didn't exist for anyone before they were born. Therefore the universe doesn't exist except for the lifetime of people. The suggestion that the universe exists more than your lifetime is all a made up story that you might have heard about before you were born, but that you have apparently forgotten about since.

 Cheesy

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jaysabi
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May 28, 2015, 03:41:39 PM
 #524

People who don't believe in Jesus salvation are going to Hell.

See here's a prime example of someone telling you as fact what's going to happen when you die.
As we've already concluded, nobody knows what will happen when die, so this person is obviously lying.


Do you really know that I don't know? If so, how do you know that I don't know?

 Cheesy

Because if you knew anything about this with certainty, you wouldn't have to rely on such manipulations of logic to try to convince people of your truth.
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May 28, 2015, 03:42:55 PM
 #525

but i would like to ask to an atheist what happens after death?
Lots of things, but none of them will involve you. The universe keeps spinning totally indifferent to your existence, as if you never existed at all.

The universe won't care, and you won't care either. Only your loved ones will be affected.

what happens to YOU. not the universe because thats obvious

Nothing happens to you. The same way nothing was happening to you for billions of years before you were born. Everything after you die, from your perspective, will be exactly the same as it was before you were born.

Well, first off, nobody knows that there were billions of years...

The universe didn't exist for anyone before they were born. Therefore the universe doesn't exist except for the lifetime of people. The suggestion that the universe exists more than your lifetime is all a made up story that you might have heard about before you were born, but that you have apparently forgotten about since.

 Cheesy

This is all demonstrably false. You might have taken note that people die all the time, billions and billions of them throughout history, and yet the universe has continued on unchanged.
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May 28, 2015, 03:50:30 PM
 #526

but i would like to ask to an atheist what happens after death?
Lots of things, but none of them will involve you. The universe keeps spinning totally indifferent to your existence, as if you never existed at all.

The universe won't care, and you won't care either. Only your loved ones will be affected.

what happens to YOU. not the universe because thats obvious

Nothing happens to you. The same way nothing was happening to you for billions of years before you were born. Everything after you die, from your perspective, will be exactly the same as it was before you were born.

Well, first off, nobody knows that there were billions of years...

The universe didn't exist for anyone before they were born. Therefore the universe doesn't exist except for the lifetime of people. The suggestion that the universe exists more than your lifetime is all a made up story that you might have heard about before you were born, but that you have apparently forgotten about since.

 Cheesy

I'd also like to draw your attention to the fact that you are now invalidating your own religious beliefs by claiming that any existence of the universe outside of your lifetime "is all a made up story."

You are so confused about what you believe, you can't even keep your fairytales straight. Your repeated attempts to explain them invalidate and contradict the pages and pages of utter nonsense you have typed in this thread, and every other thread you inflict your presence on.
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May 28, 2015, 03:53:42 PM
 #527

but i would like to ask to an atheist what happens after death?
Lots of things, but none of them will involve you. The universe keeps spinning totally indifferent to your existence, as if you never existed at all.

The universe won't care, and you won't care either. Only your loved ones will be affected.

what happens to YOU. not the universe because thats obvious

Nothing happens to you. The same way nothing was happening to you for billions of years before you were born. Everything after you die, from your perspective, will be exactly the same as it was before you were born.

Well, first off, nobody knows that there were billions of years...

The universe didn't exist for anyone before they were born. Therefore the universe doesn't exist except for the lifetime of people. The suggestion that the universe exists more than your lifetime is all a made up story that you might have heard about before you were born, but that you have apparently forgotten about since.

 Cheesy

This is all demonstrably false. You might have taken note that people die all the time, billions and billions of them throughout history, and yet the universe has continued on unchanged.

I wouldn't tell that(bolded part).

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May 28, 2015, 03:58:59 PM
 #528

because they have their own religion..
i think they love to be free..they want every thing in their own way..and from my point of view it is best thing because all religions teach only one thing that is humanity...

Wow! This sounds just like many atheists. What a religion atheism is!

Smiley

Atheism, in all it's forms, is all I can think of for what teaches humanity. No modern religion, with it's roots in the middle east, shows that all people are equal in life and death no matter what they might believe. This is especially true for all Christians, Jews, and Muslims.

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May 28, 2015, 03:59:42 PM
 #529

but i would like to ask to an atheist what happens after death?
Lots of things, but none of them will involve you. The universe keeps spinning totally indifferent to your existence, as if you never existed at all.

The universe won't care, and you won't care either. Only your loved ones will be affected.

what happens to YOU. not the universe because thats obvious

Nothing happens to you. The same way nothing was happening to you for billions of years before you were born. Everything after you die, from your perspective, will be exactly the same as it was before you were born.

Well, first off, nobody knows that there were billions of years...

The universe didn't exist for anyone before they were born. Therefore the universe doesn't exist except for the lifetime of people. The suggestion that the universe exists more than your lifetime is all a made up story that you might have heard about before you were born, but that you have apparently forgotten about since.

 Cheesy

This is all demonstrably false. You might have taken note that people die all the time, billions and billions of them throughout history, and yet the universe has continued on unchanged.

I wouldn't tell that(bolded part).

Did you want to explain why, or did you just want to be asked to dance?
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May 28, 2015, 04:17:41 PM
 #530

The universe didn't exist for anyone before they were born. Therefore the universe doesn't exist except for the lifetime of people. The suggestion that the universe exists more than your lifetime is all a made up story that you might have heard about before you were born, but that you have apparently forgotten about since.

 Cheesy

Well I glad we cleanly sorted that one out.

WTF am I reading? It doesn't even make any sense. Just some random words bashed together.

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May 28, 2015, 04:46:19 PM
 #531

The universe didn't exist for anyone before they were born. Therefore the universe doesn't exist except for the lifetime of people. The suggestion that the universe exists more than your lifetime is all a made up story that you might have heard about before you were born, but that you have apparently forgotten about since.

 Cheesy

Well I glad we cleanly sorted that one out.

WTF am I reading? It doesn't even make any sense. Just some random words bashed together.


Shockingly, I understood this, but it's still inaccurate.  Of course he doesn't realize it, but this is close to an Occam's Razor-type inference based upon all available, pragmatic evidence acquired throughout our life.  It's a perfectly valid conclusion that we can't possibly know whether the Universe does or does not exist in the absence of our experience of it, or some aspect of it.

His mistake is making a definitive conclusion.  He is claiming he knows the Universe doesn't exist in the absence of our experience of it, rather than claiming we can't know, which would be empirically correct.  There is no theoretical way to empirically validate or invalidate the existence of the Universe in the absence of our experience of it.

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May 28, 2015, 05:16:20 PM
 #532

The universe didn't exist for anyone before they were born. Therefore the universe doesn't exist except for the lifetime of people. The suggestion that the universe exists more than your lifetime is all a made up story that you might have heard about before you were born, but that you have apparently forgotten about since.

 Cheesy

Well I glad we cleanly sorted that one out.

WTF am I reading? It doesn't even make any sense. Just some random words bashed together.


Shockingly, I understood this, but it's still inaccurate.  Of course he doesn't realize it, but this is close to an Occam's Razor-type inference based upon all available, pragmatic evidence acquired throughout our life.  It's a perfectly valid conclusion that we can't possibly know whether the Universe does or does not exist in the absence of our experience of it, or some aspect of it.

His mistake is making a definitive conclusion.  He is claiming he knows the Universe doesn't exist in the absence of our experience of it, rather than claiming we can't know, which would be empirically correct.  There is no theoretical way to empirically validate or invalidate the existence of the Universe in the absence of our experience of it.

Way over my head.
One question. If the universe didn't exist before I was born, how did my parents exist to create me?

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May 28, 2015, 05:19:28 PM
 #533


each side thinks they have seen the light and that the other is living in ignorance.
-snip-
Since you've already brought up "seeing the light", I might as well say something in regards to that. You can read from time to time how person X saw *insert random god/saint or other nonsense* that talked to the person in his NDE (near-death experience). This is what deluded people believe. Even though the exact reasons are still unknown due to the lack of knowledge of the brain, this happens because of oxygen starvation.
Oxygen starvation causes failure of all the organs and tissues of the body, and the eyes and brain are most sensitive to its effects, failing before any other organs. It doesn't affect all parts of the brain at the same time.

People see, hear and believe what they want to, even though it's irrational and often wrong. That's how deluded they can be.

"Seeing the light" was a metaphor not a literal statement.
modern people who believe that science holds all the answers consider themselves "enlightened", this comes from the period known as the  "enlightenment".. enlightened literally means to be "in the light" or to "shine brightly"

ancient philosophers and theologians who were believed to be every wise beings were also considered enlightened, that is why prominent figures in Islam, Christianity and Buddhism were all depicted with halos (i.e. bright illuminating auras).

staunchly religious and staunchly atheistic (non theist/religious) people really are just two sides of the same coin.. everyone else is either Agnostic (I don't know) or Apathetic (I don't care)...

I will agree that people who are near death are much more likely to believe in an afterlife.. after all, they have much to gain by hoping its all true and nothing to lose... but you can't put it all down to near death experiences. there are plenty of fundamentalist Christians and atheists in the USA and other places who are so far away from being "near death" that it simply doesn't explain their fervent beliefs.

and yes I agree, ultimately, people will only believe what they choose to believe.. for thousands of years religious people have believed that non believers are the ones who cause all the worlds problems.. but also during those thousands of years, there have been plenty people who believed that religion was the cause of all the worlds problems...

As is often the case, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle...

wise man say "God did not make humans in his own image, Humans made God in their own image... and then God reshaped atheists in his own image."

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May 28, 2015, 05:35:04 PM
 #534

staunchly religious and staunchly atheistic (non theist/religious) people really are just two sides of the same coin.. everyone else is either Agnostic (I don't know) or Apathetic (I don't care)...
-snip-
and yes I agree, ultimately, people will only believe what they choose to believe.. for thousands of years religious people have believed that non believers are the ones who cause all the worlds problems.. but also during those thousands of years, there have been plenty people who believed that religion was the cause of all the worlds problems...

As is often the case, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle...
wise man say "God did not make humans in his own image, Humans made God in their own image... and then God made atheists in his own image."
I understood that, but I did want to open up a mini discussion in regards to that since I'm somewhere between an agnostic/atheist. I was a bit annoyed due to the fact that there were too many news in regards to it.
After seeing people argue over it in certain places I actually had to abandon them. Social networks have become pits for the uneducated and the worst of our kind.

You're right, there have been opposing sides to just about anything. This started back in the early days, as I assume the people who were against religion didn't have a spot in society.
The 'I'm right and you're not' wars are just taking shape in other things (e.g. Android vs iOS, Windows vs Linux vs OS X, etc.). I'm okay with having healthy discussions with followers of any religion as long as they don't slide to some logical fallacies.

Just look at this thread, it has become a ridiculous mess. People are wasting times on trolls such as BadDecker. The real question is why?
Quote
The universe didn't exist for anyone before they were born. Therefore the universe doesn't exist except for the lifetime of people.
If my professor of logic heard this nonsense he'd probably throw a brick at you.   Cheesy
Even if we put logic aside, a healthy person wouldn't make such a statement.

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May 28, 2015, 05:40:16 PM
Last edit: May 28, 2015, 05:53:31 PM by Alphi
 #535

People are wasting times on trolls such as BadDecker. The real question is why?

I guess for the same reason as people post their lunch photos on facebook.. because they want to feel important and that they have friends lol...

I totally agree... for a supposedly enlightened age, people really do believe some of the craziest and stupidest things that they see online.

Quote
The universe didn't exist for anyone before they were born. Therefore the universe doesn't exist except for the lifetime of people.

only someone who thinks they are very special would believe that the universe did not exist before them and will no longer exist after them...

in buddhism there is such a concept as the entire world being an illusion but that is not to say that it isn't real, only that our perceptions of the world are not real in the sense that what we see, feel, hear and touch is not fixed and finite... everything is in a constant state of change.. everyone has a different perception so everyone has a different reality... when I am born my universe is created when I die my universe ends... but whether I am alive or not the universe will continue on....

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May 28, 2015, 05:51:15 PM
 #536

The universe didn't exist for anyone before they were born. Therefore the universe doesn't exist except for the lifetime of people. The suggestion that the universe exists more than your lifetime is all a made up story that you might have heard about before you were born, but that you have apparently forgotten about since.

 Cheesy

Well I glad we cleanly sorted that one out.

WTF am I reading? It doesn't even make any sense. Just some random words bashed together.


Shockingly, I understood this, but it's still inaccurate.  Of course he doesn't realize it, but this is close to an Occam's Razor-type inference based upon all available, pragmatic evidence acquired throughout our life.  It's a perfectly valid conclusion that we can't possibly know whether the Universe does or does not exist in the absence of our experience of it, or some aspect of it.

His mistake is making a definitive conclusion.  He is claiming he knows the Universe doesn't exist in the absence of our experience of it, rather than claiming we can't know, which would be empirically correct.  There is no theoretical way to empirically validate or invalidate the existence of the Universe in the absence of our experience of it.

Way over my head.
One question. If the universe didn't exist before I was born, how did my parents exist to create me?


Evidence suggests that your parents existed to create you, because you see that other children are created from their parents.  If you are a father, you would have witnessed this first hand with the birth of your child(ren).

Here's an analogy I've used previously:

Imagine I bop you on the head and you're knocked unconscious.  While you are in that unconscious state, does the Universe continue to exist?

Suppose you become conscious again, and you seek to answer that very question.  How would you arrive at a conclusion?  One thing you might try is to ask me, the person who bopped you on the head.  I could tell you, "Sure, the Universe continued to exist, because I bopped you on the head, saw you fall unconscious, and was with you the whole time until you woke up."  Sounds pretty legit, but, how do you know I'm telling the truth?  You must now introduce an assumption that I am truthful.

Suppose you tried a different approach.  Suppose you had set up a video camera that was recording you at the time I bopped you on the head, and it was set to record continuously until you woke up.  After waking up, you then check the recording and you see the entire sequence unfold on tape -- i.e. the recording shows me bopping you on the head, shows you falling unconscious, and shows you to be continually unconscious until you wake up.  This, too, sounds pretty legit, but how do you know the recording you're watching isn't the result of some kind of video trickery?  Here, too, you must introduce an assumption that no alterations were made to the recording after you woke up.

Occam's Razor only works with empirical data.  It advises that the best conclusion is that which accounts for all of the data but introduces the fewest assumptions.  Because defining the state of the Universe in the absence of our experience requires introducing assumptions about it, we can simply remove these assumptions and come up with a more sound answer, i.e. we simply don't know what the state of the Universe is like when we don't experience it.  It may not be a practical way to think in all cases, but I believe its hard to argue with the fact that in 100% of cases where the Universe has been affirmed to exist, experience of the Universe was present. And, there have been exactly 0 cases where the Universe has been affirmed to exist in the absence of the experience of it.

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May 28, 2015, 06:01:09 PM
 #537

The universe didn't exist for anyone before they were born. Therefore the universe doesn't exist except for the lifetime of people. The suggestion that the universe exists more than your lifetime is all a made up story that you might have heard about before you were born, but that you have apparently forgotten about since.

 Cheesy

Well I glad we cleanly sorted that one out.

WTF am I reading? It doesn't even make any sense. Just some random words bashed together.


Shockingly, I understood this, but it's still inaccurate.  Of course he doesn't realize it, but this is close to an Occam's Razor-type inference based upon all available, pragmatic evidence acquired throughout our life.  It's a perfectly valid conclusion that we can't possibly know whether the Universe does or does not exist in the absence of our experience of it, or some aspect of it.

His mistake is making a definitive conclusion.  He is claiming he knows the Universe doesn't exist in the absence of our experience of it, rather than claiming we can't know, which would be empirically correct.  There is no theoretical way to empirically validate or invalidate the existence of the Universe in the absence of our experience of it.

Way over my head.
One question. If the universe didn't exist before I was born, how did my parents exist to create me?


You might think that you know that they existed before you existed, but how do you really know that they did?

----------

There was a king in a Middle East country. He had three ambassadors, and he wanted to make one of them his Prime Minister. He wanted to find the one that was the smartest, so the guy could handle the affairs of state if he, the king, were ever incapacitated for some reason. So, the king devised a little test.

He had the 3 ambassadors sit down in a circle (triangle?) facing each other. He showed them 5 little stones that he had in his hand. Two of the stones were black, and 3 were white.

The king then walked around behind the 3 seated ambassadors, and placed a little white stone in the top of the turban of each. He placed the stones in such a way that none of the ambassadors could see his own stone, but each could see the stones of the other two ambassadors. The king was careful to keep the 3 from seeing the two black stones that remained in his hand. He tucked these away in a pocket in his cloak.

Then the king said, "The one who can tell me the color of the stone in his own turban, he is the one who can be the Prime Minister. But, if you guess, and you guess wrong, it's off with your head! And no cheating! If you cheat, it's off with your head."

The ambassadors sat there for a while, looking sort of dumbfounded. Finally one of them proclaimed, "I can't figure it out. And it isn't worth guessing. So, I give up." After a little longer, a second ambassador said the same.

The third ambassador proclaimed loudly, "I have a white one."

The third guy wasn't guessing. He KNEW he had a white one. He wasn't guessing. There is a logical way to figure out that he had a white one. How did he know that he had a white one?

----------

Some of you have seen this before, and know the answer. Maybe it was from the previous time I listed it.

Some of you are good thinkers and have figured it out immediately.

Some of you have the answer because you can feel it. You don't know why your answer is right. You haven't been able to explain the whole thing clearly to yourselves. But you might be on the edge of explaining. Just the same, you know there is a logical answer.

Others will never figure it out on their own.

So, how DID the guy know that he had a white stone?

Smiley

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May 28, 2015, 06:07:42 PM
 #538


only someone who thinks they are very special would believe that the universe did not exist before them and will no longer exist after them...


Only someone who is prone to believing in fairy tales would believe for no reason that the universe existed before they did.

So, if you have reason to believe, what is it? And don't say, "'Cause Mommy told me so."

Smiley

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May 28, 2015, 06:44:05 PM
 #539


only someone who thinks they are very special would believe that the universe did not exist before them and will no longer exist after them...


Only someone who is prone to believing in fairy tales would believe for no reason that the universe existed before they did.

So, if you have reason to believe, what is it? And don't say, "'Cause Mommy told me so."

Smiley

Do you believe in the fairy tail story Jesus once existed then? Long before you was born, so how do you know he existed? You trumpet it to everyone as fact.

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May 28, 2015, 07:00:15 PM
 #540

I guess for the same reason as people post their lunch photos on facebook.. because they want to feel important and that they have friends lol...
I totally agree... for a supposedly enlightened age, people really do believe some of the craziest and stupidest things that they see online.

Quote
The universe didn't exist for anyone before they were born. Therefore the universe doesn't exist except for the lifetime of people.

only someone who thinks they are very special would believe that the universe did not exist before them and will no longer exist after them...

in buddhism there is such a concept as the entire world being an illusion but that is not to say that it isn't real, only that our perceptions of the world are not real in the sense that what we see, feel, hear and touch is not fixed and finite... everything is in a constant state of change.. everyone has a different perception so everyone has a different reality... when I am born my universe is created when I die my universe ends... but whether I am alive or not the universe will continue on....
Well that could explain it. I mean, aside from myself a lot of people have suggested others to ignore him. We drifted way off from an actually beneficial thread to nonsense.
Video footage or images (RAW) that have not been tampered with, taken before your birth prove that the universe existed. With technology it is easy.

It's unfortunate that the majority of people are either ignorant, deluded, or "special cases". Would it not be better if the majority was awake, or listening to reason?

I haven't heard of it, but I have thought of many different scenarios. What if someone is running a VR simulation on my body? I could be trapped in a simulator similar to Sims just more sophisticated and bigger. Don't tell me that it isn't possible, because it is. I do like to think about these things sometimes when I let my mind loose. Even though I sometimes deeply think about it, I never let the thoughts get to me else I'd become deluded as well.

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