Why do Atheists Hate Religion?

[eon89]

You asked if I would start a war against religion because you mentioned faith.  I wrote I have no problem with faith, only with your characterisation of science. Now you write "Of course you have a problem: you have no Faith!". This is meaningless, unless you think that science == faith, which as I explained to you before is a contradiction in terms.

Now it is you who is talking without thinking. Science DOES equal faith in all sorts of ways. What scientist would look for some aspect of science if he didn't have faith that it could be found? Who would ever formulate scientific theories if he didn't have faith that they might be able to be proven? or if he didn't have faith that his theories would help him prove other things in science? or if he didn't have faith that his peer review would earn him status or money somehow? Most of science absolutely does equal faith.

No. I've never met a scientist arrogant enough to *have faith* they're right. There will be undoubtedly be some, but the ones i know *hope* they're right. If they had faith they were right, they wouldn't bother with experiments since that would be a waste of time.

Replace "faith" with "hope" in your statement above and you'll be nearer the mark.

Faith is when your mind doesn't know but your heart tells you so.
Scientists don't hink with their heart but with their brain. So they can't have faith. That would be a nonsense.

Of course they sometimes have faith in their theories and that's why they do test it. But they just have faith in their vision of the world, then they test, and they know if they're wrong or right.

But we don't have faith in gravity BADecker xD

Scientists are not robots. They have lots of faith. Ask their husbands and wives. Many of them will tell you truthfully that their spouse is faithful - full of faith.

Faith in gravity is built-in. It is beyond hope. Why do we have faith in gravity? Because we don't really know for a fact that it will keep on working for us. The example and experience is that it has in the past. But we still don't know about the future, even though we are comfortable in thinking we do.

There is no need for faith in gravity - if we're to use your example.
There is no example is the history of human kind when gravity has failed a single human being. Except in space or in controlled experiments.
I KNOW for a FACT that if I'll jump I'll come back down. And we can all gather and make the experiment or bet or whatever you want and you'll see that every time I'll jump I'll come back on the ground again. No faith needed.
If it doesn't happen you can tell me wrong as much as you want. But I wouldn't get my hopes too high if I were you.

[1713861034]

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[1713861034]

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[eon89]

Well, I should probably be thanking you for focusing on me rather than how science proves God exits. But what else can you do? since you can't refute the science. So, thanks for helping to validate the science by showing folks how you can't refute it.

What else can I do? I can try to keep your wandering mind on topic. What proof is there that Atheists hate Religion?

That is part of the point. Many atheists don't hate religion. These are the ones who barely consider their atheism.

So you don't think that atheists in general hate religious people in general? Finally, something we can agree on. I might not agree with your method of discussion, but I agree with the characterisation you give here - most atheists I've met don't even think about gods.

The atheists who hate religion are far more atheistic than the ones who barely consider atheism. Both of them have their religion.

I don't agree with your definition of religion (ie that having a religion just means spending time arguing about something -- which means, by the way, that  for example that all lawyers follow law as a religion, all politicians have political action as a religion) but even by your definition if many atheists "barely consider their atheism" then how can it be a religion to them?

Those of them who hate religion, are far more into the religion of atheism than those who don't. They are also far more into hating themselves.

I'm not sure how you could know that -- unless you have been an atheist?

"Leave me alone," they say. "Let me squander the little bit of life I have, before I wind up destroying myself completely, just to get away from the religion that I am."

Has anyone actually said that? I'm fairly certain that you just made that up, and that no atheist ever said that to you.

Well, thank you again, for helping to prove that God exists, by attempting to take the focus off the science that proves it. Hopefully more and more people will wake up to the fact that God does exist. God even appreciates you for the help you are giving in this area.

Any chance you'll respond to any of my questions any time soon? Do you have no answer for logical objections?

I'm sure I have responded one way or another to any question you might be asking.

This being said, thanks again for showing that you don't have any science that refutes the scientifically proven fact that God exists... AND for helping me to expand the knowledge of this by not expressing any refutation that you might have.

Dude - there isn't any evidence that God doesn't exist. But also there isn't any evidence that He does exist. So we'll each pick the option that makes more sense for each of us. Of course, logic and science point us towards the second option, but if you choose the first one that's ok also. Just keep it to yourself. We can still go out and have a beer together.

[yugo23]

Well, I should probably be thanking you for focusing on me rather than how science proves God exits. But what else can you do? since you can't refute the science. So, thanks for helping to validate the science by showing folks how you can't refute it.

What else can I do? I can try to keep your wandering mind on topic. What proof is there that Atheists hate Religion?

That is part of the point. Many atheists don't hate religion. These are the ones who barely consider their atheism.

So you don't think that atheists in general hate religious people in general? Finally, something we can agree on. I might not agree with your method of discussion, but I agree with the characterisation you give here - most atheists I've met don't even think about gods.

The atheists who hate religion are far more atheistic than the ones who barely consider atheism. Both of them have their religion.

I don't agree with your definition of religion (ie that having a religion just means spending time arguing about something -- which means, by the way, that  for example that all lawyers follow law as a religion, all politicians have political action as a religion) but even by your definition if many atheists "barely consider their atheism" then how can it be a religion to them?

Those of them who hate religion, are far more into the religion of atheism than those who don't. They are also far more into hating themselves.

I'm not sure how you could know that -- unless you have been an atheist?

"Leave me alone," they say. "Let me squander the little bit of life I have, before I wind up destroying myself completely, just to get away from the religion that I am."

Has anyone actually said that? I'm fairly certain that you just made that up, and that no atheist ever said that to you.

Well, thank you again, for helping to prove that God exists, by attempting to take the focus off the science that proves it. Hopefully more and more people will wake up to the fact that God does exist. God even appreciates you for the help you are giving in this area.

Any chance you'll respond to any of my questions any time soon? Do you have no answer for logical objections?

I'm sure I have responded one way or another to any question you might be asking.

This being said, thanks again for showing that you don't have any science that refutes the scientifically proven fact that God exists... AND for helping me to expand the knowledge of this by not expressing any refutation that you might have.

Dude - there isn't any evidence that God doesn't exist. But also there isn't any evidence that He does exist. So we'll each pick the option that makes more sense for each of us. Of course, logic and science point us towards the second option, but if you choose the first one that's ok also. Just keep it to yourself. We can still go out and have a beer together.

Agreed. As nothing concerning God can be proved or unproved, that's just a matter of personnal perspective. Like it or not BADecker, you don't have any proof of God existence.

[eon89]

I also studied physics but I'm not a physician. If a study a certain field makes me only an informed person concerning that field. That's all.

You need to be a priest to study Theology: you cannot study by yourself.

I accept that answer in the "violent discussion" we are having.


Best regards.


EDIT: if Theology can be studied without being a priest give proofs.

Child, you do realize I'm not going to show you my diploma, but you can easily look online. And to be specific I'm talking here about orthodox theology. I'm sure that from here you can manage to find what you need by yourself.

[BitNow]

Child, you do realize I'm not going to show you my diploma, but you can easily look online. And to be specific I'm talking here about orthodox theology. I'm sure that from here you can manage to find what you need by yourself.

Now I understand why you lost faith.


Best regards.

[mrflibblehat]

Let me tell you something, as a theology major, that is: theology is nonsense. And I can and am allowed to say that because mine is an informed opinion. I'm not just talking out of my ass. And after 5 years my opinion (doesn't have to be yours too) is that it's just a bunch of hooey. How easy it is to make nonsense up, make people believe it, and then live out of people's ignorance. It's genius!

Perhaps if you had been a spiritual major, all that theology would have made some sense to you. Too bad. All that training, and what good did it do you. Essentially none... at least in the ways that are worth anything of eternal value.

Go study science with a focus on finding out how cause and effect, complex universe, and universal entropy combine to prove the existence of God. Then go back and review your theological training. You just might come to understand that even you can be saved for eternal life in pleasure and joy.

Yeah - it took me 5 years of studying theology to finally understand that it's all nonsense. That's my opinion, please respect it, I'll respect your and that's it. Don't force your ideas upon others. Go be with Jesus.

In Hell you will be saying for eternity, "Please God, let that guy force faith in you on me."

If God is so powerful and full of mercy and love He will forgive me, because I'm small and limited and He is all powerful. If not then He is spiteful and keeps spite like a small child.

He is trying to forgive you. But you will receive none of it.

The retarded black person over in Africa, who never learned to read or write, and who is not saved because he worships the idol his family taught him to worship, will be punished less in Hell than you, a theology major, who intentionally rejected God after you found out all about Him.

Now that's one of the most racist thing I've read in some time.
You mean to say that black people are retarded?
Or that he will go to Hell because he can't or did not learn to read?
Or because his parents taught him something and not about your God that he will go to Hell even if he hasn't never heard about God?
Dude... That's wrong on so many levels, i don't even know what to say...

You racist, you. Turning the things that I say into racism, and then emphasizing the racist part.

The person that doesn't know about God and goes to Hell will be punished less than the one who knows about God and rejects Him.

You call black people retarded and call me racist? You little sneaky...

[mrflibblehat]

Would it have any point whatsoever to mention the obvious fact that I was ironic? Or the fact that I even have to say that speaks a lot for itself?

Here's the first factual statement you have said.   

Yeah, when in need you take what you can, right? At least it's not nothing. You're not leaving home with your bag empty.

[mrflibblehat]

There is too much pain and suffering in this world that so many innocents endure to believe there is a God that loves us like a parent would.
Why does He allow it? Or, seeing as how He knows the future, He did so from the beginning. Is it some kind of sadistic thing?

Mankind rejected God in the Garden, and brought this pain and death on us. Jesus salvation is the way out. We will never understand the reasons why it works like it does. at least not outside of Heaven. The point is getting there. Once this world is destroyed, it will never be brought to remembrance again.

NO! Adam and Eve rejected God. We should NOT be punished because they were stupid! God is wrong for doing so!

Seems to me you are rejecting God. Been in anybody elses heart and mind lately to find out if they are rejecting God? Or if they only seem like they are rejecting God.

From what I've understood we're paying for Adam and Eve's sins. And that's not cool.

How about if you were to be put in prison because someone you don't know, you've never met and is in another country did something you're not guilty of?

[mrflibblehat]

Free will?  That is something I can prove false...

If you believe these 3 common Christian beliefs:
1) God created the universe exactly as it is
2) God could have created the universe differently if he wanted to (billions of possibilities)
3) God is Omniscient (knows the future)

Then free will cannot exist

God created this specific universe, knowing exactly what would happen, including your personal choices (free will)...  he could have created a universe where I was a Christian instead of an Atheist, but God created this universe, knowing that I would be an Atheist... It's God's fault I'm an Atheist, not mine!

You have free will in deciding to have faith in him or not.



Best regards.

No. You only have free will to decide not to believe in Him. However, if your free will is weak enough, the Holy spirit can work faith in your heart.

So the Holy Spirit works better on the weak minded/spirited? That's really funny.
That would mean that the ones that are atheists have strong mindsets.
Thank you for the compliment. It's very welcome.

Unfortunately for them, if their spiritual strength is strong enough to resist God, they are resisting their own salvation, and plunging themselves into Hell.

Oh well. They asked for it. Even god gave them this ability. Jesus said, "Shake the dust off your feet."

You wrote god instead of God. You sinner! How could you forget? What if God will forget to offer you air tomorrow?! you should be stoned to death or something. 

Jesus forgives me. And even if I get stoned - to death - God has a place in Heaven for me, with Him.

If that happens I will not throw not even one stone. But neither will I stop the others that will throw them. But you'll be fine. God will take you. We'll drink a beer in your memory. All's cool.

My memory of you when I am in Heaven will be non-existent... if you don't make it.

It's going to be hard but I'll try to get over it somehow. But don't worry - you'll be floating on top of a big bowl of white mashed potatoes.

[mrflibblehat]

The idea of cause and effect suggests that there is no free will. But how can one talk to a materialistic scientist who doesn't believe in spirit and soul, but only believes in bio-mechanical operations of mind?

Because Science comes from Wisdom which comes from fearing the Lord.


Best regards.

As usual, we have to fear the Lord. That's not right - ruling through fear. That's the rule of the jungle. The most powerful rules. There was no need for laws and free will. Fear always works best.

Fearing God is wisdom. After all, He has the ability to do anything to you He wants. Be glad He is patient and merciful with you.

I am glad He is patient and merciful with me. But I think He has to choose: fear or love. What does he want? There seems to be some kind of contradiction here.

He definitely wants your love. The part of the fear that God wants from you is fear in the direction of respect. The rest of the fear you will supply naturally when you meet Him.

Yeah - fear and love don't go together in my book. I want God to love me enough to make me immortal. And in turn I'll love God forever.

Since I don't know you very much, I don't know that you are not a saved person right now.

Nothing witty to reply? I was sure that you would have some snappy comeback for that. I guess it was too much of an argument for you to combat.

[BADecker]

The idea of cause and effect suggests that there is no free will. But how can one talk to a materialistic scientist who doesn't believe in spirit and soul, but only believes in bio-mechanical operations of mind?

Because Science comes from Wisdom which comes from fearing the Lord.


Best regards.

As usual, we have to fear the Lord. That's not right - ruling through fear. That's the rule of the jungle. The most powerful rules. There was no need for laws and free will. Fear always works best.

Fearing God is wisdom. After all, He has the ability to do anything to you He wants. Be glad He is patient and merciful with you.

I am glad He is patient and merciful with me. But I think He has to choose: fear or love. What does he want? There seems to be some kind of contradiction here.

He definitely wants your love. The part of the fear that God wants from you is fear in the direction of respect. The rest of the fear you will supply naturally when you meet Him.

Yeah - fear and love don't go together in my book. I want God to love me enough to make me immortal. And in turn I'll love God forever.

Since I don't know you very much, I don't know that you are not a saved person right now.

Nothing witty to reply? I was sure that you would have some snappy comeback for that. I guess it was too much of an argument for you to combat.

Just waiting for you to say something worthwhile replying to.   

[valta4065]

Dude stop spamming, you don't have to make 4 answers just to say one sentence each time. It takes place on my screen and on my internet connection (which is low I know).

[BADecker]

Dude stop spamming, you don't have to make 4 answers just to say one sentence each time. It takes place on my screen and on my internet connection (which is low I know).

He means you, Mr.flea-bit-hat.   

[eon89]

Dude stop spamming, you don't have to make 4 answers just to say one sentence each time. It takes place on my screen and on my internet connection (which is low I know).

He means you, Mr.flea-bit-hat.   

That was just mean, and uncalled for.
So when other users make reason you're just throwing insults? That's so christian of you.

[Moloch]

Am I the only one who hates how BitNow always finish his posts by "bets regards" while saying horrible shit and how BADecker finishes by a contemptuous smile even though he just said horrible things?

I pray that God kills you himself and escorts you to the bowels of hell where you will spend eternity burning in flames!

best regards  

[BitNow]

Am I the only one who hates how BitNow always finish his posts by "bets regards" while saying horrible shit and how BADecker finishes by a [contemptuous] smile even though he just said horrible thins?

I pray that God kills you himself and escorts you to the bowels of hell where you will spend eternity burning in flames!

best regards  

That is not English.


Best regards.

[craked5]

Dude stop spamming, you don't have to make 4 answers just to say one sentence each time. It takes place on my screen and on my internet connection (which is low I know).

He means you, Mr.flea-bit-hat.   

That was just mean, and uncalled for.
So when other users make reason you're just throwing insults? That's so christian of you.

I didn't understand, Valta asked for stop spamming, it seems rather obvious that 5 one sentence answers is close to spam no?

[valta4065]

Am I the only one who hates how BitNow always finish his posts by "bets regards" while saying horrible shit and how BADecker finishes by a [contemptuous] smile even though he just said horrible thins?

I pray that God kills you himself and escorts you to the bowels of hell where you will spend eternity burning in flames!

best regards  

That is not English.


Best regards.

This is perfectly English.

Take a dictionary.

Worst regards.

[BitNow]

Am I the only one who hates how BitNow always finish his posts by "bets regards" while saying horrible shit and how BADecker finishes by a [contemptuous] smile even though he just said horrible thins?

I pray that God kills you himself and escorts you to the bowels of hell where you will spend eternity burning in flames!

best regards  

That is not English.


Best regards.

This is perfectly English.

Take a dictionary.

Worst regards.

I was talking to Moloch: "God kills you himself" is not a sentence in English.

it is not clear if the object is you or himself.


Best regards.

[valta4065]

Am I the only one who hates how BitNow always finish his posts by "bets regards" while saying horrible shit and how BADecker finishes by a [contemptuous] smile even though he just said horrible thins?

I pray that God kills you himself and escorts you to the bowels of hell where you will spend eternity burning in flames!

best regards  

That is not English.


Best regards.

This is perfectly English.

Take a dictionary.

Worst regards.

I was talking to Moloch: "God kills you himself" is not a sentence in English.

it is not clear if the object is you or himself.


Best regards.

Dude, you're not only a bigot but also a grammar nazi? It's perfectly clear that it's you. It's also perfectly correct: "god kills you himself"