[ANN] Sia - Decentralized Storage

[andyatcrux]

Hey,
New user here--got the GUI wallet for Windows and running it. Managed to create a wallet etc.

The problem I'm having is that it doesn't appear to be syncing the blockchain. Am I missing something? It just says in the overview page that the Block Height is 0.

Thanks.

unlock the wallet ...

that should allow you into the system ... unless i have it wrong of course ...

if the new wallet was anything like the old one - then DONT unlock it unless its fully sync'd - as it will take a LONG time if you do ...

anyone else help? ...

#crysx

If I were to speculate:

I noticed that sometimes the main tab of the wallet will continue to read 0 blocks until you tab to "wallet" and back to "overview." That seems to force a refresh of the information. If I wait it seems to refresh automatically on the overview page, but can take a full minute.  Also, it can just take a while for the wallet to build the database at first, but the new wallet is much faster. The wallet and SIA in general does not respond or look exactly like what most people are used to so the initial thought people have is that it is being "non-responsive" but so far 0.4.3 seems to be working very well. And yes, you don't unlock until the database is caught up and the balance will still read zero until you unlock. This is more of a feature than a bug if I understand correctly.

[1713297597]

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[MinermanNC]

Hey,
New user here--got the GUI wallet for Windows and running it. Managed to create a wallet etc.

The problem I'm having is that it doesn't appear to be syncing the blockchain. Am I missing something? It just says in the overview page that the Block Height is 0.

Thanks.

unlock the wallet ...

that should allow you into the system ... unless i have it wrong of course ...

if the new wallet was anything like the old one - then DONT unlock it unless its fully sync'd - as it will take a LONG time if you do ...

anyone else help? ...

#crysx

If I were to speculate:

I noticed that sometimes the main tab of the wallet will continue to read 0 blocks until you tab to "wallet" and back to "overview." That seems to force a refresh of the information. If I wait it seems to refresh automatically on the overview page, but can take a full minute.  Also, it can just take a while for the wallet to build the database at first, but the new wallet is much faster. The wallet and SIA in general does not respond or look exactly like what most people are used to so the initial thought people have is that it is being "non-responsive" but so far 0.4.3 seems to be working very well. And yes, you don't unlock until the database is caught up and the balance will still read zero until you unlock. This is more of a feature than a bug if I understand correctly.

Your speculations are spot on! lol   

[Zer0Sum]

Hey Boarders,

Just received a email from Storji, you have heard of them right? Well they beat you to it  

Email extract.

$384,000 Invested from 11 investor's -  Storj brings cloud storage to the Blockchain to make your files cheaper, faster and more secure than services like DropBox and Google Drive

When Bitcoin invented the Blockchain it made it possible for you to own your own money and send it cheaper, faster and more securely than when using a bank. It also gave investors the opportunity to profit from the same privileges that banks and governments have had for decades - the ability to benefit from the profits of newly created money.
 

Now Storj has taken that very same model and applied it to file storage. We all use services like Google Drive, Apple iCloud and Dropbox to store our files and we place a lot of trust in them to keep those files safe and secure, but what if we no longer have to?
 

Storj allows users to store their files encrypted across a decentralised network of computers rather than trusting one company to keep your files safe. This means they can be stored cheaper, faster and more securely as there is no central point of failure. It also means that anybody can rent out their spare hard drive space and get paid for contributing to the network.
 

Storj is the AirBnb of file storage. Qualifying Investors can check out full details about

So what's new? and what's your point? maybe they beat Maidsafe to it? but they fall short as well like Storj

Storj is what it is and Sia has its own means of storage and how you pay, and how you can earn money by renting/hosting out that storage. How much can I earn per GH/month by hosting Storj?

Can I share my files publicly using Storj? or upload various file types to sunfish servers with Storj? for others to download and use? or is it only good for storing my junk files on... can my files be used for collaboration with Storj?

Also: can I mine for Storj coins to pay for my hosting? or would I be "forced" to buy coins at market price only... can I use Storj coins for other things?

I just don't see where Storj has anything to offer that compares or even comes close to the potential of Sia.

Storj just doesn't measure up at the end of the day.

Sia will virtually have its own global economy which can be expanded upon, even rival Bitcoin possibly one day as a very reliable and secure form of cyrpto currency.

Ok, good luck with Storj, report back in a year  

Not that it much matters, but one of the main devs for Storj is on the Sia slack channel and is a self professed holder of MAID and SIA. None of them, STORJ included, is dependent of the failure of the others. On the contrary, which is why I hold all three.  I do confess that my main "alt" holding is SIA though.

It's great that the GUI wallet now appears to be standalone... am sending SC back/forth to Polo with only GUI installed.

Crypto projects tend to have tunnel vision = fighting the Last War...
As if the blockchain will solve problems that do not exist (like Zero Cost Cloud Storage)...
Only value added features matter in this space... such as anon file downloading to compete with BitTorrent.

That said, SC is the cheapest way with the most upside to bet on p2p storage.





http://www.businessinsider.com/google-leads-cloud-storage-race-to-zero-2015-5

[samspaces]

Anyone else getting HTTP Error 400 with the gpu miner ?

Yes, got that too. Gave up after messing around with it for an hour.

[pallas]

Anyone else getting HTTP Error 400 with the gpu miner ?

Yes, got that too. Gave up after messing around with it for an hour.

It can mean that the wallet is not synced yet.

[sjsqd]

Hey,
New user here--got the GUI wallet for Windows and running it. Managed to create a wallet etc.

The problem I'm having is that it doesn't appear to be syncing the blockchain. Am I missing something? It just says in the overview page that the Block Height is 0.

Thanks.

unlock the wallet ...

that should allow you into the system ... unless i have it wrong of course ...

if the new wallet was anything like the old one - then DONT unlock it unless its fully sync'd - as it will take a LONG time if you do ...

anyone else help? ...

#crysx

If I were to speculate:

I noticed that sometimes the main tab of the wallet will continue to read 0 blocks until you tab to "wallet" and back to "overview." That seems to force a refresh of the information. If I wait it seems to refresh automatically on the overview page, but can take a full minute.  Also, it can just take a while for the wallet to build the database at first, but the new wallet is much faster. The wallet and SIA in general does not respond or look exactly like what most people are used to so the initial thought people have is that it is being "non-responsive" but so far 0.4.3 seems to be working very well. And yes, you don't unlock until the database is caught up and the balance will still read zero until you unlock. This is more of a feature than a bug if I understand correctly.

Managed to fix it by moving my wallet out of its directory. Starting the GUI client and then letting it sync up (which took about a minute). Replacing my wallet and then unlocking it via the wallet screen.

TBH I think an unlock button on every page would probably make the most sense. Anyway, it sync'd really quickly so I'm happy!

[MadCow]

Crypto projects tend to have tunnel vision = fighting the Last War...
As if the blockchain will solve problems that do not exist (like Zero Cost Cloud Storage)...
Only value added features matter in this space... such as anon file downloading to compete with BitTorrent.

That said, SC is the cheapest way with the most upside to bet on p2p storage.





http://www.businessinsider.com/google-leads-cloud-storage-race-to-zero-2015-5

Sia is decentralised, and while it can still compete on price with centralised cloud storage providers, it'll blow everything out of the water if/when people start caring about the security of their data.

If 5% of humans start to listen to Snowden's advice long enough to change their habits we're talking about a huge market. I think when the decentralised cloud is as easy to use and well known as the centralised cloud Sia will get a lot more than a 5% share, but that might take a while, or an attention getting event happens, like a major hack that effects a lot of people.

edit: there's also the option to be a seller too, which is similar to being an Uber driver, or Air B n B provider. Helping people establish their own micro cloud storage businesses is marketing gold IMO

[robinson5]

Hi so I downloaded the new 0.4.3 version (says 0.4.2UI) and imported my legacy wallet from a much older version I think it was 0.3.3 or something.  About how long should it take for my balance to appear?

Also, once my balance appears do I only need to remember the long lists of words that the Sia wallet gave me when I first opened it?  I no longer need to keep any backups? Or any of the backups from the 0.3.3 wallets I was keeping until people would stop losing their coins?

Thanks!

[chrysophylax]

Hi so I downloaded the new 0.4.3 version (says 0.4.2UI) and imported my legacy wallet from a much older version I think it was 0.3.3 or something.  About how long should it take for my balance to appear?

Also, once my balance appears do I only need to remember the long lists of words that the Sia wallet gave me when I first opened it?  I no longer need to keep any backups? Or any of the backups from the 0.3.3 wallets I was keeping until people would stop losing their coins?

Thanks!

when it fully syncs - unlock your wallet and the imported coins should show up ( although mine took a little bit of time initially ) ...

thats what happened with mine anyway ...

always keep the password list handy ... always ...

always make backups ... always ...

...

#crysx

[robinson5]

Hi so I downloaded the new 0.4.3 version (says 0.4.2UI) and imported my legacy wallet from a much older version I think it was 0.3.3 or something.  About how long should it take for my balance to appear?

Also, once my balance appears do I only need to remember the long lists of words that the Sia wallet gave me when I first opened it?  I no longer need to keep any backups? Or any of the backups from the 0.3.3 wallets I was keeping until people would stop losing their coins?

Thanks!

when it fully syncs - unlock your wallet and the imported coins should show up ( although mine took a little bit of time initially ) ...

thats what happened with mine anyway ...

always keep the password list handy ... always ...

always make backups ... always ...

...

#crysx

Okay thanks! My client is fully synced and no coins have yet to appear. Hopefully they will after a while.  I don't know if it matters but the wallets are from the old 0.3.3 version because I'm always too scared to do anything.  I don't want to lose my coins.

For the backup you are talking about is writing down all the words enough? Or is there a wallet.dat file we should be backing up to? I've lost track of all the different versions of sia that save the wallet.backup and the wallet.dat in different places.  And do we need both or is just one of them sufficient?

I think a guide on how to upgrade to new wallets without losing your coins would be really helpful especially to new users.  I now have multiple different backups in different location which makes things different.

And the gateway host and renter folders in my home folder, are the still necessary? Or where they part of the old 0.3.3 system? Thanks for all the help!

[robinson5]

Hi so I downloaded the new 0.4.3 version (says 0.4.2UI) and imported my legacy wallet from a much older version I think it was 0.3.3 or something.  About how long should it take for my balance to appear?

Also, once my balance appears do I only need to remember the long lists of words that the Sia wallet gave me when I first opened it?  I no longer need to keep any backups? Or any of the backups from the 0.3.3 wallets I was keeping until people would stop losing their coins?

Thanks!

when it fully syncs - unlock your wallet and the imported coins should show up ( although mine took a little bit of time initially ) ...

thats what happened with mine anyway ...

always keep the password list handy ... always ...

always make backups ... always ...

...

#crysx

Okay thanks! My client is fully synced and no coins have yet to appear. Hopefully they will after a while.  I don't know if it matters but the wallets are from the old 0.3.3 version because I'm always too scared to do anything.  I don't want to lose my coins.

For the backup you are talking about is writing down all the words enough? Or is there a wallet.dat file we should be backing up to? I've lost track of all the different versions of sia that save the wallet.backup and the wallet.dat in different places.  And do we need both or is just one of them sufficient?

I think a guide on how to upgrade to new wallets without losing your coins would be really helpful especially to new users.  I now have multiple different backups in different location which makes things different.

And the gateway host and renter folders in my home folder, are the still necessary? Or where they part of the old 0.3.3 system? Thanks for all the help!

I think I may have been another person just to lose all their coins even though this new release was supposed to be fool proof.  It keeps on saying my wallet is loaded but I still have 0 coins and it has been about an hour now.  I really think that there should be instructions so users don't have to deal with this on their own.

Or releases should be less frequent and instead new versions should only come out after being bug tested so things like this don't keep on happening to users repeatedly.  When sia was first released on poloniex I couldn't even move my coins becuase the mac wallet wasn't working and kept giving me errors on that no passphrase was appearing.  Is this how I could have just lost all my coins?

[robinson5]

Hi so I downloaded the new 0.4.3 version (says 0.4.2UI) and imported my legacy wallet from a much older version I think it was 0.3.3 or something.  About how long should it take for my balance to appear?

Also, once my balance appears do I only need to remember the long lists of words that the Sia wallet gave me when I first opened it?  I no longer need to keep any backups? Or any of the backups from the 0.3.3 wallets I was keeping until people would stop losing their coins?

Thanks!

when it fully syncs - unlock your wallet and the imported coins should show up ( although mine took a little bit of time initially ) ...

thats what happened with mine anyway ...

always keep the password list handy ... always ...

always make backups ... always ...

...

#crysx

Okay thanks! My client is fully synced and no coins have yet to appear. Hopefully they will after a while.  I don't know if it matters but the wallets are from the old 0.3.3 version because I'm always too scared to do anything.  I don't want to lose my coins.

For the backup you are talking about is writing down all the words enough? Or is there a wallet.dat file we should be backing up to? I've lost track of all the different versions of sia that save the wallet.backup and the wallet.dat in different places.  And do we need both or is just one of them sufficient?

I think a guide on how to upgrade to new wallets without losing your coins would be really helpful especially to new users.  I now have multiple different backups in different location which makes things different.

And the gateway host and renter folders in my home folder, are the still necessary? Or where they part of the old 0.3.3 system? Thanks for all the help!

I think I may have been another person just to lose all their coins even though this new release was supposed to be fool proof.  It keeps on saying my wallet is loaded but I still have 0 coins and it has been about an hour now.  I really think that there should be instructions so users don't have to deal with this on their own.

Or releases should be less frequent and instead new versions should only come out after being bug tested so things like this don't keep on happening to users repeatedly.  When sia was first released on poloniex I couldn't even move my coins becuase the mac wallet wasn't working and kept giving me errors on that no passphrase was appearing.  Is this how I could have just lost all my coins?

Problem averted.  I quit all sia process in activity monitor and closed sia.  I reopened it and tried reimporting my legacy wallets (which I had many of from every time a new version with new rules came out).  After unlocking, locking, and relocking the wallet the coins appeared.  All in all it was probably more than an hour process just to get my coins over to the new wallet.  I really think some user friendly guides would be great so people stop having issues.  I would also vote for less releases and instead have the releases more functional from the start for all operating systems including mac! Generally all my problems come from a problem in the mac build.  I think late releases that work better are far better than early releases that constantly need updates.

And one last question: Is the mnemonic enough to use a a backup for my wallet? Or is there a wallet.dat and wallet.backup saved somewhere that I should backup as well? And the consensus, gateway, host, and renter folders in my home folder are they still necessary for this version of sia or where they apart of the old 0.3.3 versions?

Thanks!

[chrysophylax]

Hi so I downloaded the new 0.4.3 version (says 0.4.2UI) and imported my legacy wallet from a much older version I think it was 0.3.3 or something.  About how long should it take for my balance to appear?

Also, once my balance appears do I only need to remember the long lists of words that the Sia wallet gave me when I first opened it?  I no longer need to keep any backups? Or any of the backups from the 0.3.3 wallets I was keeping until people would stop losing their coins?

Thanks!

when it fully syncs - unlock your wallet and the imported coins should show up ( although mine took a little bit of time initially ) ...

thats what happened with mine anyway ...

always keep the password list handy ... always ...

always make backups ... always ...

...

#crysx

Okay thanks! My client is fully synced and no coins have yet to appear. Hopefully they will after a while.  I don't know if it matters but the wallets are from the old 0.3.3 version because I'm always too scared to do anything.  I don't want to lose my coins.

For the backup you are talking about is writing down all the words enough? Or is there a wallet.dat file we should be backing up to? I've lost track of all the different versions of sia that save the wallet.backup and the wallet.dat in different places.  And do we need both or is just one of them sufficient?

I think a guide on how to upgrade to new wallets without losing your coins would be really helpful especially to new users.  I now have multiple different backups in different location which makes things different.

And the gateway host and renter folders in my home folder, are the still necessary? Or where they part of the old 0.3.3 system? Thanks for all the help!

I think I may have been another person just to lose all their coins even though this new release was supposed to be fool proof.  It keeps on saying my wallet is loaded but I still have 0 coins and it has been about an hour now.  I really think that there should be instructions so users don't have to deal with this on their own.

Or releases should be less frequent and instead new versions should only come out after being bug tested so things like this don't keep on happening to users repeatedly.  When sia was first released on poloniex I couldn't even move my coins becuase the mac wallet wasn't working and kept giving me errors on that no passphrase was appearing.  Is this how I could have just lost all my coins?

Problem averted.  I quit all sia process in activity monitor and closed sia.  I reopened it and tried reimporting my legacy wallets (which I had many of from every time a new version with new rules came out).  After unlocking, locking, and relocking the wallet the coins appeared.  All in all it was probably more than an hour process just to get my coins over to the new wallet.  I really think some user friendly guides would be great so people stop having issues.  I would also vote for less releases and instead have the releases more functional from the start for all operating systems including mac! Generally all my problems come from a problem in the mac build.  I think late releases that work better are far better than early releases that constantly need updates.

And one last question: Is the mnemonic enough to use a a backup for my wallet? Or is there a wallet.dat and wallet.backup saved somewhere that I should backup as well? And the consensus, gateway, host, and renter folders in my home folder are they still necessary for this version of sia or where they apart of the old 0.3.3 versions?

Thanks!

thats good that the coins are there ...

as far as i am aware - the wallet is no longer stored as a .dat file - but rather - as .json file ...

that will be the only thing that is required as a backup - but again - with all the changes ( and yes taek - they are good changes ) i am a little ost as to whether that is all you will need to back up ...

i place ALL wallets in separate directories - and name them accordingly ... as sia is 'portable' - it can be moved anywhere you like as long as you have the directories all in tact ...

#crysx

[GenTarkin]

Just found out bout this coin, trying to set up client... in order to share storage it says I have to open port 9982(Im assuming TCP?) I have and it still wont let me host any storage.
Also, how does one configure where this storage is on my PC? like what drive letters etc...
Are there any requirements in order to start earning for dedicating my storage?

Is this coin approaching death or something?

[akaman]

Just found out bout this coin, trying to set up client... in order to share storage it says I have to open port 9982(Im assuming TCP?) I have and it still wont let me host any storage.
Also, how does one configure where this storage is on my PC? like what drive letters etc...

Welcome!

What error do you get? TCP port 9982 is correct. It should set up forwarding on your router, but you can go the manual way as well in case that does not work.

You can't specify storage location yet.

Sia is still in beta. Just keep that in mind.

Are there any requirements in order to start earning for dedicating my storage?

None other that being able to host. You can host any amount of storage. If you set your price too high, you may not be selected by uploaders though. Earnings are paid out after 6000 blocks, if the data is still on your drive.

Is this coin approaching death or something?

Far from it. Nearing lift-off is more like it...

[GenTarkin]

Just found out bout this coin, trying to set up client... in order to share storage it says I have to open port 9982(Im assuming TCP?) I have and it still wont let me host any storage.
Also, how does one configure where this storage is on my PC? like what drive letters etc...

Welcome!

What error do you get? TCP port 9982 is correct. It should set up forwarding on your router, but you can go the manual way as well in case that does not work.

You can't specify storage location yet.

Sia is still in beta. Just keep that in mind.

Are there any requirements in order to start earning for dedicating my storage?

None other that being able to host. You can host any amount of storage. If you set your price too high, you may not be selected by uploaders though. Earnings are paid out after 6000 blocks, if the data is still on your drive.

Is this coin approaching death or something?

Far from it. Nearing lift-off is more like it...

Thanks for the info =)

I get error 400, bad request, host not reachable port 9982.
I definitely have both 9982 & 9981(I saw that was a potential fix) reachable and I see traffic logged in my router at least on 9981, but theres barely any traffic on 9982.

Also, where is the documentation for like command line options n stuff?
Im running sia-gui windows x64 build.
How is space allocated then? is it just in the launching directory the space stored or is it in a different location?
How do I add the space of multiple drives then?

[akaman]

I get error 400, bad request, host not reachable port 9982.
I definitely have both 9982 & 9981(I saw that was a potential fix) reachable and I see traffic logged in my router at least on 9981, but theres barely any traffic on 9982.

Could your Windows firewall be blocking that port?

Also, where is the documentation for like command line options n stuff?

All docs are here:
https://github.com/NebulousLabs/Sia/tree/master/doc

You can access options easily on command line:

Code:

siac help

Code:

siac wallet help

Code:

siac host help

and so on.

Im running sia-gui windows x64 build.
How is space allocated then? is it just in the launching directory the space stored or is it in a different location?

The rented space is /host/ folder where siac is located. All hosted files are store there.

How do I add the space of multiple drives then?

At the moment, there is no built-in support for this in Sia. It is a bit bare-bones at the moment, though fully functional. If you have multiple volumes you want to use for Sia, you may want to configure an LVM partition and run Sia off that.

In case you haven't already, you may also want to read this:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zNpAct53E_5p4KO3_-ZOrg5N9HQw8ACTQ7zAyksSIf8/edit

[GenTarkin]

Ok, cool I got the hosting to work by forcing my ip:port via "siac host announce ip:port"
In fact I already have someone renting.
Thanks for the tip on the storage location.

Now, my question is, if I shutdown my siad (or the gui version) ... will have I have to manually reannounce again?
What if I make changes to my storage size, file size etc? Will I have to reannounce?

Also, do I have to have my wallet unlocked to host?

[bitspill]

If you stop siad I don't think you'll have to reanounce but I'm not certain.

If you change price/size parameters you do not have to re announce, that I know for sure.

Unlocked status... I don't know for certain but I want to say it has to be unlocked, otherwise the contract wouldn't have an address to pay to.

[Taek]

And yes, you don't unlock until the database is caught up and the balance will still read zero until you unlock. This is more of a feature than a bug if I understand correctly.

"feature" -> it was designed to work that way, but enough people have complained about it that we're going to make it display the correct balance even before you unlock. This isn't going to be ready by 0.4.4, but hopefully not long after.

Hi so I downloaded the new 0.4.3 version (says 0.4.2UI) and imported my legacy wallet from a much older version I think it was 0.3.3 or something.  About how long should it take for my balance to appear?

Also, once my balance appears do I only need to remember the long lists of words that the Sia wallet gave me when I first opened it?  I no longer need to keep any backups? Or any of the backups from the 0.3.3 wallets I was keeping until people would stop losing their coins?

Thanks!

Balance should appear once the blockchain is caught up. Legacy wallets don't always work, but if the balance was appearing in the legacy client then it will also appear in the new client.

You should always keep your old backups  . That long list of words is called the 'seed'. When you import a legacy wallet, it does not move the coins to a seed-based address -> need to keep a backup of the wallet file. As you use the wallet more, the coins will slowly be cycled onto a seed address, though it's a pretty random process. Definitely best to keep the backups somewhere safe. (Alternatively, you can just send all of your coins to a seed-based address, that will work just fine)

For the backup you are talking about is writing down all the words enough? Or is there a wallet.dat file we should be backing up to? I've lost track of all the different versions of sia that save the wallet.backup and the wallet.dat in different places.  And do we need both or is just one of them sufficient?

I think a guide on how to upgrade to new wallets without losing your coins would be really helpful especially to new users.  I now have multiple different backups in different location which makes things different.

And the gateway host and renter folders in my home folder, are the still necessary? Or where they part of the old 0.3.3 system? Thanks for all the help!

Keep all your folders, you still need them. It's best to keep a backup of the wallet.json as well. The wallet still has some rough spots in it as far as user experience goes, but so far everybody who has thought that they lost coins using the 0.4.x wallets has been able to recover them. We've had 4-5 people report that their coins were gone, but every time we were able to find them. Obviously, it's better that you never need to go searching for them in the first place, we have a few improvements in the pipeline that will help (but still probably 3-5 weeks away).

Or releases should be less frequent and instead new versions should only come out after being bug tested so things like this don't keep on happening to users repeatedly.  When sia was first released on poloniex I couldn't even move my coins becuase the mac wallet wasn't working and kept giving me errors on that no passphrase was appearing.

We do need better testing procedures. Less frequent releases is actually damaging though: we are changing/upgrading Sia at the same speed no matter how often we make releases. If we go a long time without making a release, we end up changing too many things and people get confused about how to use the new wallet. Also, the number of bugs we missed during testing is much higher, so the experience is both buggier and more confusing.

Rapid release cycles have been proven repeatedly to be the best way to develop software. We are also upgrading our testing process and improving the number of tests every release. Currently we have 450 tests that we run every release.

Also, where is the documentation for like command line options n stuff?

when using the command line tools, you'll find `--help` to be very useful. A lot of commands have subcommands, you can run things like `siac wallet --help` to get wallet specific help. And `siac wallet send --help` to get help specific to sending money around.

If you stop siad I don't think you'll have to reanounce but I'm not certain.

If you change price/size parameters you do not have to re announce, that I know for sure.

Unlocked status... I don't know for certain but I want to say it has to be unlocked, otherwise the contract wouldn't have an address to pay to.

No need to reannounce after stopping siad.

Siad needs to be unlocked for hosting to work.