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Author Topic: [ANN] Sia - Decentralized Storage  (Read 1346207 times)
Taek
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December 18, 2015, 04:07:23 PM
 #2521

Thx for the clarification, but I doubt in expansion of SIA hosts with the fixed IP or dynamic DNS requirement...

I think you are mistaken. IF there is money to be made, hosts will figure out how to make it. Sia's big problem right now is NOT that it does not have enough hosts. Sia's big problem is that it does not have enough people uploading files. You don't need to do any port forwarding at all to be an uploader on the Sia network. Don't need a static IP, don't need any fancy configurations.

I hope that makes sense. Storage is basically free on our network. We don't have a supply problem. And because we don't have a supply problem, as the developers we are focusing all of our energy on the bottleneck: demand.

That doesn't mean that we aren't working on the host experience. The hosts are going to get some upgrades in the 050 release, especially in the form of more information about how much money you are making, how long it's going to take, and in the form of improved protocols for talking to the renter.

The hosts on the Sia network are very important, but without people uploading data to the network they are completely meaningless. It doesn't matter how easy it is or how much storage is available if nobody ever uses it. That's why we are choosing to focus all of our energy on the uploaders right now. Because Sia absolutely needs more uploaders, much more than it needs anything else.
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pallas
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December 18, 2015, 04:12:24 PM
 #2522

Then the user experience of the "customers" should be top priority: make a Sia "virtual folder", like dropbox, and you'll have a lot more uploaders ;-)
And/or, integrate sia apis into common apps for smartphones, like the various android file explorers for example.
They may even do it for free if you ask them, and it's free advertising for Sia.

EDIT: another idea is creating packages for common NASes like Qnap and Synology so they can backup on the Sia network. I'd personally use the service if the price is right, and it'd be a lot of data.

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December 19, 2015, 02:49:36 AM
 #2523

Yes Sia is different now when compared to Dropbox etc. Yes we do have to manually upload each file or folder separately. So is a little more labor intensive as such. Perhaps a virtual folder of sorts would be a nice enhancement, but not sure Sia was conceived to be used that way.

But on the other hand, aside form being anonymous and data files split and spread across host computers, (which gives great security there, and no one can piece that file together except for the uploader) AND it is also portable. Which in many ways is a huge plus for the concept. No web based account to log into or account registration set up etc., no credit cards involved to use Sia, all of which present a potential for security issues in itself.

So it is different and offers a very different way to store files safely and securely. Use file sharing for collaboration, or just for general public downloading is available (sunfish server) for anyone who has a Sia wallet and can gather those pieces of data that makes the file readable. Almost impossible to be hacked.

Just giving some credit where due, in this concept.  Smiley




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MinermanNC
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December 19, 2015, 05:35:46 AM
 #2524

Id say most of those concerns are to be wondered about at first glance with Sia. Most of your line of questions seem to be as if a first glance? Which is fine, but again its being compared to everyday cloud storage norms. Many of what you list are good to have specifically answered but are addressed throughout the Sia postings here and there  Grin most of which are addressed, and many concerns are alleviated.

In the meantime, Sia is a Nebulous Labs" project, a very successful company in its own right.

Taxes? lol like any other crypto... at the point and time in which you convert to BTC and sell for cash... you record it as income minus expenses, assuming you actually mined and earned any Sia, or bought and sold with a net gain. Just like bitcoin that way  Smiley

Ok, I feel relatively safe even in beta. Now no one recommends using Sia as your soul data storage by no means! But please do use it and get familiar and you will gain confidence and see it more for what it is than at a first glance.

The devs are working on a more comprehensive tutorial and so on. Its still early in the game and has not been pushed to market yet. Gonna be a while, but soon.




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chup
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December 19, 2015, 08:10:47 AM
 #2525


I think you are mistaken. IF there is money to be made, hosts will figure out how to make it. Sia's big problem right now is NOT that it does not have enough hosts. Sia's big problem is that it does not have enough people uploading files. You don't need to do any port forwarding at all to be an uploader on the Sia network. Don't need a static IP, don't need any fancy configurations.


Chicken and egg problem.
Personally, I would never save on SIA network nothing more than a THIRD copy of my files until I see thousands of hosts running. There is huge pool of empty HDD space existing at average Joe's computers. But average Joe doesn't want to bother with fixed IP or dynamic dns services by himself. He will be very much interested in clicking one button that will make his empty HDD space available to the SIA network and makes (SIA) credit for his next HDD purchase. External HDDs could be packed with SIA installation wallet for hosting, installed upon connecting the drive. Perfect if it could be bought or discounted with SIA. It could be arranged with worldwide supplier that is crypto visionary (Overstock.com) or with HDD manufacturing companies.
Only my two cents in order of making SIA start.

Taek
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December 19, 2015, 10:09:41 AM
 #2526

Personally, I would never save on SIA network nothing more than a THIRD copy of my files until I see thousands of hosts running.

Why? There is absolutely no need for that.

I think you have a mis-perception about what is required to keep data secure. Amazon doesn't have thousands of hosts, they put your data in single datacenter. The next version will have better redundancy information so you can see how your files are doing, but to the best of my knowledge no file has ever been lost on the Sia network. Our algorithms have improved significantly since the last release, file will be even more secure on v0.5.0.


Questions that arise (and are unanswered at first glance):
1. If it is distributed then how can my data be considered safe? Is SIA's approach Zero-Knowledge?
2. Can malicious users try to extort my data? (By going offline?)
3. How can I make multiple backups in physically independant locations and be assured that I can ALWAYS get my files back?
4. What are the exact costs? It has to be somewhat predictable over time, otherwise we don't want to use the service. Will 50$/month turn into 1000$/month?

https://sia.tech/faq

Questions that arise when they have finally started using SIA:
1. Why is there no "dropping" folder? Other services always offer this.
2. How about file versioning. Is every file always backed up?
3. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH! WHY IS MY SIA NOT APPEARING? DID I JUST GET SCAMMED? (30 min block time)
4. Can I automatically top-up my account with new SIA every month?

Those are just a small slew of concerns, which aren't sufficiently answered on the SIA site in an easy-to-find manner.

That's more easily answered, Sia is still in beta. We don't have all those features people have come to expect because.... it takes time to implement them. Development doesn't happen overnight.

The siacoins should appear in the 'pending' box immediately. It's not a 30 minute block time, it's a 10 minute block time. Where did you find this information?

I think the FAQ answers a lot of your questions already, you should look over it again and tell us what you think needs to be changed.
tranzactionezlive
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December 19, 2015, 04:18:07 PM
 #2527

Guys big problem, in need of assistance :


I have wallet 0.33 beta.2 b383       sia version 0.3.3.3


I had 2500KS balance, i've sent a few times 270ks to a new wallet on another PC, from about 7 transfers only 3 made it through.

Now the problem is that the balance still shows me 2500KS and any new transfers won't work, even though at first it was showing that it sent but in reality it didn't now after a few restarts it says : Error calling /wallet/send :



Please advise.
mishax1
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December 19, 2015, 04:22:24 PM
 #2528

Welcome to the club.
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December 19, 2015, 06:32:07 PM
 #2529

really like the new SIA feel and look. tried it earlier this year... I think you guys are a serious competition to storj Smiley

in-cred-u-lous
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December 19, 2015, 07:20:54 PM
Last edit: December 21, 2015, 09:18:53 PM by in-cred-u-lous
 #2530

1. How do I easily buy this SIA thing? Do they accept credit card? Bank transfer?

Sia developers do not sell Siacoin. You can exchange bitcoin for Siacoin on http://poloniex.com. You can also buy Siacoin today at http://nethut.no with credit card (Visa 3D Secure only), PayPal, bit/altcoins and bank transfer. For now, order have to be place through the Storage cost estimator at http://siapulse.com/page/market.

BTW: This vendor is unaffiliated with Nebulous Labs (the Sia developers).

Quote
2. Is this a legitimate service or shady "crypto" bullocks? How can I verify their legitimacy?

The developers operate with real names on GitHub, they have their address and location indicated on their Facebook page etc.

Quote
3. How do taxes work on this SIA thing?

That depends on your jurisdiction. Presumably, Siacoin would be taxed just like bitcoin in most jurisdictions. Earning Siacoin from hosting storage would be similar to earning bitcoin by mining. Where I'm from (Norway) 25% VAT (domestic sales only) is charged on all cryptocoin sales.

Quote
4. What advantage does it give me over traditional cloud storage? (Apart from cost)

Many, but some I think are note-worthy:
Redundancy & geographical decentralization
Built-in encryption (only you have the private key; ask Dropbox, Google Drive etc about that)
Permanent record of file contracts (on the blockchain)
Cryptocoin based (you have bit/altcoin; no need to convert to fiat to buy that storage)

Quote
5. Is there a reputation system for hosts? (I'd rather pay a premium than lose data)

I think that's redundant as unreliable hosts are never paid for files they loose, and renters receive a refund (automatically once the file contract expires). Sia also attempts repairs of files when redundancy drops due to hosts going offline (which happens ALL the time). So, loosing your files due to a few bad eggs is unlikely.

Quote
6. Where exactly are my files stored? I want to know the identity of the people behind the computers.

The closest you get is geographical localization of IP addresses, unless hosts willingly announce their names/location in some forum:
http://siapulse.com/page/network

Quote
1. Why is there no "dropping" folder? Other services always offer this.

Sia developers are (rightly so) focusing on core features of the Sia protocol, such as renting/hosting/renewals etc. A "drop-folder" feature could be (in fact: are) developed by 3rd parties today using the Sia AP.

Quote
2. How about file versioning. Is every file always backed up?

There is no versioning built into Sia. As of today, you would have to re-upload the entire file if it changes.

Quote
4. Can I automatically top-up my account with new SIA every month?

Not yet. Possibilities are that a direct seller of Siacoin top-up your balance using a stored credit card, or that you build your own tools to automatically exchange BTC for SC on Poloniex.
Taek
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December 20, 2015, 02:42:31 PM
 #2531

Guys big problem, in need of assistance :


I have wallet 0.33 beta.2 b383       sia version 0.3.3.3


I had 2500KS balance, i've sent a few times 270ks to a new wallet on another PC, from about 7 transfers only 3 made it through.

Now the problem is that the balance still shows me 2500KS and any new transfers won't work, even though at first it was showing that it sent but in reality it didn't now after a few restarts it says : Error calling /wallet/send :



Please advise.

0.3.3.3 was deprecated over a month ago due to a hardfork that was advertised 2 months in advance. You need to upgrade to 0.4.8, and then use the 'load legacy wallet' button. If you got your coins by mining, then your coins are not going to be valid because you were mining on an invalid chain.


Of course, I'm not blaming the development and I know these problems should be resolved in the future. But these are a couple of things I could see scaring a business away. Crypto as a whole is pretty daunting for companies.

Our experience so far has actually been pretty encouraging. Businesses don't seem to be afraid of cryptography nor cryptocurrency. They are more concerned about the current usage stats on the network - 4TB is not enough for them to feel confident moving production systems over. Of course, Sia is in general rough around the edges and we're looking to polish all aspects of it over time, but it's important to always be focusing on the most important features.
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December 20, 2015, 10:33:21 PM
 #2532

Personally, I would never save on SIA network nothing more than a THIRD copy of my files until I see thousands of hosts running.

Why? There is absolutely no need for that.

I think you have a mis-perception about what is required to keep data secure. Amazon doesn't have thousands of hosts, they put your data in single datacenter. The next version will have better redundancy information so you can see how your files are doing, but to the best of my knowledge no file has ever been lost on the Sia network. Our algorithms have improved significantly since the last release, file will be even more secure on v0.5.0.


One can't compete Amazon, Google or Microsoft using the same technology they are using. Just because of X-redundancy, storage price will be X-times higher. Unless army of unused HDD parts jumps into equation with Y-times lower price. Competitive condition is Y to be significantly higher than X. My imagination of future SIA network was massive number of small hosts.

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December 21, 2015, 01:08:41 AM
 #2533

I have never seen Sia as making any one host rich, but should yield enough in storage fees for each host to use and pay for their own storage,,, at least initially I would think. Other words, were as I may be a host its a small amount of HD space right now. I did not rush out and upgrade to 2-4 Tb of storage... yet  Grin

I still see Sia becoming popular once its more user friendly.

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December 21, 2015, 04:57:56 PM
 #2534

Personally, I would never save on SIA network nothing more than a THIRD copy of my files until I see thousands of hosts running.

Why? There is absolutely no need for that.

I think you have a mis-perception about what is required to keep data secure. Amazon doesn't have thousands of hosts, they put your data in single datacenter. The next version will have better redundancy information so you can see how your files are doing, but to the best of my knowledge no file has ever been lost on the Sia network. Our algorithms have improved significantly since the last release, file will be even more secure on v0.5.0.


One can't compete Amazon, Google or Microsoft using the same technology they are using. Just because of X-redundancy, storage price will be X-times higher. Unless army of unused HDD parts jumps into equation with Y-times lower price. Competitive condition is Y to be significantly higher than X. My imagination of future SIA network was massive number of small hosts.

Lets not forget that they all use X-redundancy, huge storage facilities, cooling systems, tech engineers to maintain it all, managers to take big salaries..
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December 21, 2015, 09:22:11 PM
 #2535

I'm stuck at Block Height: 29071. Is there any way to download or speed up my blockchain?

The current block is 29176. You're not that far off. Did it sync further?

If not, and you in fact got stuck you may have to restart the deamon. I would restart siad from the command line:

Code:
./siac stop

then start the UI again. It should continue synchronizing the blockchain from where it left it.
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December 22, 2015, 08:55:25 AM
 #2536

looks like a decent project but coin supply is retarded sadly Smiley
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December 22, 2015, 09:55:24 AM
 #2537

One can't compete Amazon, Google or Microsoft using the same technology they are using. Just because of X-redundancy, storage price will be X-times higher. Unless army of unused HDD parts jumps into equation with Y-times lower price. Competitive condition is Y to be significantly higher than X. My imagination of future SIA network was massive number of small hosts.

Lets not forget that they all use X-redundancy, huge storage facilities, cooling systems, tech engineers to maintain it all, managers to take big salaries..
I seriously doubt they use 4 or 5 times redundancy for storage like SIA is considering to use.

pallas
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December 22, 2015, 10:18:51 AM
 #2538

One can't compete Amazon, Google or Microsoft using the same technology they are using. Just because of X-redundancy, storage price will be X-times higher. Unless army of unused HDD parts jumps into equation with Y-times lower price. Competitive condition is Y to be significantly higher than X. My imagination of future SIA network was massive number of small hosts.

Lets not forget that they all use X-redundancy, huge storage facilities, cooling systems, tech engineers to maintain it all, managers to take big salaries..
I seriously doubt they use 4 or 5 times redundancy for storage like SIA is considering to use.

They surely do not. But their nodes are mostly online, while sia users can come and go whenever they want.

tranzactionezlive
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December 22, 2015, 07:19:36 PM
 #2539

Guys big problem, in need of assistance :


I have wallet 0.33 beta.2 b383       sia version 0.3.3.3


I had 2500KS balance, i've sent a few times 270ks to a new wallet on another PC, from about 7 transfers only 3 made it through.

Now the problem is that the balance still shows me 2500KS and any new transfers won't work, even though at first it was showing that it sent but in reality it didn't now after a few restarts it says : Error calling /wallet/send :



Please advise.


Any ideas from the developers ? The wallet seems to lack a console ( or i can't find it ). In any bitcoin/litecoin clone a checkwallet and repairwallet should've done it.

Taek
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December 22, 2015, 10:21:28 PM
 #2540

Guys big problem, in need of assistance :


I have wallet 0.33 beta.2 b383       sia version 0.3.3.3


I had 2500KS balance, i've sent a few times 270ks to a new wallet on another PC, from about 7 transfers only 3 made it through.

Now the problem is that the balance still shows me 2500KS and any new transfers won't work, even though at first it was showing that it sent but in reality it didn't now after a few restarts it says : Error calling /wallet/send :



Please advise.


Any ideas from the developers ? The wallet seems to lack a console ( or i can't find it ). In any bitcoin/litecoin clone a checkwallet and repairwallet should've done it.



Like I stated earlier, you need to upgrade to version 0.4.8, and then use the 'load legacy wallet' button in the UI. Sia is not a bitcoin/litecoin clone, it is coded from scratch. There is a console, it's a program called 'siad', and can be downloaded here: https://github.com/NebulousLabs/Sia/releases/tag/v0.4.8-beta

Personally, I would never save on SIA network nothing more than a THIRD copy of my files until I see thousands of hosts running.

Why? There is absolutely no need for that.

I think you have a mis-perception about what is required to keep data secure. Amazon doesn't have thousands of hosts, they put your data in single datacenter. The next version will have better redundancy information so you can see how your files are doing, but to the best of my knowledge no file has ever been lost on the Sia network. Our algorithms have improved significantly since the last release, file will be even more secure on v0.5.0.


One can't compete Amazon, Google or Microsoft using the same technology they are using. Just because of X-redundancy, storage price will be X-times higher. Unless army of unused HDD parts jumps into equation with Y-times lower price. Competitive condition is Y to be significantly higher than X. My imagination of future SIA network was massive number of small hosts.

We aren't using the same technology that they are using. Are you familiar with Reed-Solomon coding? It makes storing files online substantially more fault tolerant. Currently, we store 5 copies of the file across 10 hosts. The original file can be recovered from *any* 2 of the hosts, which means that you just need 20% of the hosts to be online when you want the file. Host uptime on our network is over 90%, so the chance that a full 8 out of 10 are going to be down is very slim. These numbers will get substantially better as the number of hosts increase, but already they are good enough to not be causing problems.

Interally, most datacenters do you 3 redundancy, by the way. Additionally, as you can see from our pricing we are able to compete on price, even at this early stage.
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