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Author Topic: [ANN] Sia - Decentralized Storage  (Read 1382127 times)
chup
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December 19, 2015, 08:10:47 AM
 #2521


I think you are mistaken. IF there is money to be made, hosts will figure out how to make it. Sia's big problem right now is NOT that it does not have enough hosts. Sia's big problem is that it does not have enough people uploading files. You don't need to do any port forwarding at all to be an uploader on the Sia network. Don't need a static IP, don't need any fancy configurations.


Chicken and egg problem.
Personally, I would never save on SIA network nothing more than a THIRD copy of my files until I see thousands of hosts running. There is huge pool of empty HDD space existing at average Joe's computers. But average Joe doesn't want to bother with fixed IP or dynamic dns services by himself. He will be very much interested in clicking one button that will make his empty HDD space available to the SIA network and makes (SIA) credit for his next HDD purchase. External HDDs could be packed with SIA installation wallet for hosting, installed upon connecting the drive. Perfect if it could be bought or discounted with SIA. It could be arranged with worldwide supplier that is crypto visionary (Overstock.com) or with HDD manufacturing companies.
Only my two cents in order of making SIA start.

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Taek (OP)
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December 19, 2015, 10:09:41 AM
 #2522

Personally, I would never save on SIA network nothing more than a THIRD copy of my files until I see thousands of hosts running.

Why? There is absolutely no need for that.

I think you have a mis-perception about what is required to keep data secure. Amazon doesn't have thousands of hosts, they put your data in single datacenter. The next version will have better redundancy information so you can see how your files are doing, but to the best of my knowledge no file has ever been lost on the Sia network. Our algorithms have improved significantly since the last release, file will be even more secure on v0.5.0.


Questions that arise (and are unanswered at first glance):
1. If it is distributed then how can my data be considered safe? Is SIA's approach Zero-Knowledge?
2. Can malicious users try to extort my data? (By going offline?)
3. How can I make multiple backups in physically independant locations and be assured that I can ALWAYS get my files back?
4. What are the exact costs? It has to be somewhat predictable over time, otherwise we don't want to use the service. Will 50$/month turn into 1000$/month?

https://sia.tech/faq

Questions that arise when they have finally started using SIA:
1. Why is there no "dropping" folder? Other services always offer this.
2. How about file versioning. Is every file always backed up?
3. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH! WHY IS MY SIA NOT APPEARING? DID I JUST GET SCAMMED? (30 min block time)
4. Can I automatically top-up my account with new SIA every month?

Those are just a small slew of concerns, which aren't sufficiently answered on the SIA site in an easy-to-find manner.

That's more easily answered, Sia is still in beta. We don't have all those features people have come to expect because.... it takes time to implement them. Development doesn't happen overnight.

The siacoins should appear in the 'pending' box immediately. It's not a 30 minute block time, it's a 10 minute block time. Where did you find this information?

I think the FAQ answers a lot of your questions already, you should look over it again and tell us what you think needs to be changed.
tranzactionezlive
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December 19, 2015, 04:18:07 PM
 #2523

Guys big problem, in need of assistance :


I have wallet 0.33 beta.2 b383       sia version 0.3.3.3


I had 2500KS balance, i've sent a few times 270ks to a new wallet on another PC, from about 7 transfers only 3 made it through.

Now the problem is that the balance still shows me 2500KS and any new transfers won't work, even though at first it was showing that it sent but in reality it didn't now after a few restarts it says : Error calling /wallet/send :



Please advise.
mishax1
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December 19, 2015, 04:22:24 PM
 #2524

Welcome to the club.
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December 19, 2015, 06:32:07 PM
 #2525

really like the new SIA feel and look. tried it earlier this year... I think you guys are a serious competition to storj Smiley

in-cred-u-lous
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December 19, 2015, 07:20:54 PM
Last edit: December 21, 2015, 09:18:53 PM by in-cred-u-lous
 #2526

1. How do I easily buy this SIA thing? Do they accept credit card? Bank transfer?

Sia developers do not sell Siacoin. You can exchange bitcoin for Siacoin on http://poloniex.com. You can also buy Siacoin today at http://nethut.no with credit card (Visa 3D Secure only), PayPal, bit/altcoins and bank transfer. For now, order have to be place through the Storage cost estimator at http://siapulse.com/page/market.

BTW: This vendor is unaffiliated with Nebulous Labs (the Sia developers).

Quote
2. Is this a legitimate service or shady "crypto" bullocks? How can I verify their legitimacy?

The developers operate with real names on GitHub, they have their address and location indicated on their Facebook page etc.

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3. How do taxes work on this SIA thing?

That depends on your jurisdiction. Presumably, Siacoin would be taxed just like bitcoin in most jurisdictions. Earning Siacoin from hosting storage would be similar to earning bitcoin by mining. Where I'm from (Norway) 25% VAT (domestic sales only) is charged on all cryptocoin sales.

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4. What advantage does it give me over traditional cloud storage? (Apart from cost)

Many, but some I think are note-worthy:
Redundancy & geographical decentralization
Built-in encryption (only you have the private key; ask Dropbox, Google Drive etc about that)
Permanent record of file contracts (on the blockchain)
Cryptocoin based (you have bit/altcoin; no need to convert to fiat to buy that storage)

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5. Is there a reputation system for hosts? (I'd rather pay a premium than lose data)

I think that's redundant as unreliable hosts are never paid for files they loose, and renters receive a refund (automatically once the file contract expires). Sia also attempts repairs of files when redundancy drops due to hosts going offline (which happens ALL the time). So, loosing your files due to a few bad eggs is unlikely.

Quote
6. Where exactly are my files stored? I want to know the identity of the people behind the computers.

The closest you get is geographical localization of IP addresses, unless hosts willingly announce their names/location in some forum:
http://siapulse.com/page/network

Quote
1. Why is there no "dropping" folder? Other services always offer this.

Sia developers are (rightly so) focusing on core features of the Sia protocol, such as renting/hosting/renewals etc. A "drop-folder" feature could be (in fact: are) developed by 3rd parties today using the Sia AP.

Quote
2. How about file versioning. Is every file always backed up?

There is no versioning built into Sia. As of today, you would have to re-upload the entire file if it changes.

Quote
4. Can I automatically top-up my account with new SIA every month?

Not yet. Possibilities are that a direct seller of Siacoin top-up your balance using a stored credit card, or that you build your own tools to automatically exchange BTC for SC on Poloniex.
Taek (OP)
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December 20, 2015, 02:42:31 PM
 #2527

Guys big problem, in need of assistance :


I have wallet 0.33 beta.2 b383       sia version 0.3.3.3


I had 2500KS balance, i've sent a few times 270ks to a new wallet on another PC, from about 7 transfers only 3 made it through.

Now the problem is that the balance still shows me 2500KS and any new transfers won't work, even though at first it was showing that it sent but in reality it didn't now after a few restarts it says : Error calling /wallet/send :



Please advise.

0.3.3.3 was deprecated over a month ago due to a hardfork that was advertised 2 months in advance. You need to upgrade to 0.4.8, and then use the 'load legacy wallet' button. If you got your coins by mining, then your coins are not going to be valid because you were mining on an invalid chain.


Of course, I'm not blaming the development and I know these problems should be resolved in the future. But these are a couple of things I could see scaring a business away. Crypto as a whole is pretty daunting for companies.

Our experience so far has actually been pretty encouraging. Businesses don't seem to be afraid of cryptography nor cryptocurrency. They are more concerned about the current usage stats on the network - 4TB is not enough for them to feel confident moving production systems over. Of course, Sia is in general rough around the edges and we're looking to polish all aspects of it over time, but it's important to always be focusing on the most important features.
chup
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December 20, 2015, 10:33:21 PM
 #2528

Personally, I would never save on SIA network nothing more than a THIRD copy of my files until I see thousands of hosts running.

Why? There is absolutely no need for that.

I think you have a mis-perception about what is required to keep data secure. Amazon doesn't have thousands of hosts, they put your data in single datacenter. The next version will have better redundancy information so you can see how your files are doing, but to the best of my knowledge no file has ever been lost on the Sia network. Our algorithms have improved significantly since the last release, file will be even more secure on v0.5.0.


One can't compete Amazon, Google or Microsoft using the same technology they are using. Just because of X-redundancy, storage price will be X-times higher. Unless army of unused HDD parts jumps into equation with Y-times lower price. Competitive condition is Y to be significantly higher than X. My imagination of future SIA network was massive number of small hosts.

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December 21, 2015, 01:08:41 AM
 #2529

I have never seen Sia as making any one host rich, but should yield enough in storage fees for each host to use and pay for their own storage,,, at least initially I would think. Other words, were as I may be a host its a small amount of HD space right now. I did not rush out and upgrade to 2-4 Tb of storage... yet  Grin

I still see Sia becoming popular once its more user friendly.

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December 21, 2015, 04:57:56 PM
 #2530

Personally, I would never save on SIA network nothing more than a THIRD copy of my files until I see thousands of hosts running.

Why? There is absolutely no need for that.

I think you have a mis-perception about what is required to keep data secure. Amazon doesn't have thousands of hosts, they put your data in single datacenter. The next version will have better redundancy information so you can see how your files are doing, but to the best of my knowledge no file has ever been lost on the Sia network. Our algorithms have improved significantly since the last release, file will be even more secure on v0.5.0.


One can't compete Amazon, Google or Microsoft using the same technology they are using. Just because of X-redundancy, storage price will be X-times higher. Unless army of unused HDD parts jumps into equation with Y-times lower price. Competitive condition is Y to be significantly higher than X. My imagination of future SIA network was massive number of small hosts.

Lets not forget that they all use X-redundancy, huge storage facilities, cooling systems, tech engineers to maintain it all, managers to take big salaries..
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December 21, 2015, 09:22:11 PM
 #2531

I'm stuck at Block Height: 29071. Is there any way to download or speed up my blockchain?

The current block is 29176. You're not that far off. Did it sync further?

If not, and you in fact got stuck you may have to restart the deamon. I would restart siad from the command line:

Code:
./siac stop

then start the UI again. It should continue synchronizing the blockchain from where it left it.
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December 22, 2015, 08:55:25 AM
 #2532

looks like a decent project but coin supply is retarded sadly Smiley
chup
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December 22, 2015, 09:55:24 AM
 #2533

One can't compete Amazon, Google or Microsoft using the same technology they are using. Just because of X-redundancy, storage price will be X-times higher. Unless army of unused HDD parts jumps into equation with Y-times lower price. Competitive condition is Y to be significantly higher than X. My imagination of future SIA network was massive number of small hosts.

Lets not forget that they all use X-redundancy, huge storage facilities, cooling systems, tech engineers to maintain it all, managers to take big salaries..
I seriously doubt they use 4 or 5 times redundancy for storage like SIA is considering to use.

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December 22, 2015, 10:18:51 AM
 #2534

One can't compete Amazon, Google or Microsoft using the same technology they are using. Just because of X-redundancy, storage price will be X-times higher. Unless army of unused HDD parts jumps into equation with Y-times lower price. Competitive condition is Y to be significantly higher than X. My imagination of future SIA network was massive number of small hosts.

Lets not forget that they all use X-redundancy, huge storage facilities, cooling systems, tech engineers to maintain it all, managers to take big salaries..
I seriously doubt they use 4 or 5 times redundancy for storage like SIA is considering to use.

They surely do not. But their nodes are mostly online, while sia users can come and go whenever they want.

tranzactionezlive
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December 22, 2015, 07:19:36 PM
 #2535

Guys big problem, in need of assistance :


I have wallet 0.33 beta.2 b383       sia version 0.3.3.3


I had 2500KS balance, i've sent a few times 270ks to a new wallet on another PC, from about 7 transfers only 3 made it through.

Now the problem is that the balance still shows me 2500KS and any new transfers won't work, even though at first it was showing that it sent but in reality it didn't now after a few restarts it says : Error calling /wallet/send :



Please advise.


Any ideas from the developers ? The wallet seems to lack a console ( or i can't find it ). In any bitcoin/litecoin clone a checkwallet and repairwallet should've done it.

Taek (OP)
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December 22, 2015, 10:21:28 PM
 #2536

Guys big problem, in need of assistance :


I have wallet 0.33 beta.2 b383       sia version 0.3.3.3


I had 2500KS balance, i've sent a few times 270ks to a new wallet on another PC, from about 7 transfers only 3 made it through.

Now the problem is that the balance still shows me 2500KS and any new transfers won't work, even though at first it was showing that it sent but in reality it didn't now after a few restarts it says : Error calling /wallet/send :



Please advise.


Any ideas from the developers ? The wallet seems to lack a console ( or i can't find it ). In any bitcoin/litecoin clone a checkwallet and repairwallet should've done it.



Like I stated earlier, you need to upgrade to version 0.4.8, and then use the 'load legacy wallet' button in the UI. Sia is not a bitcoin/litecoin clone, it is coded from scratch. There is a console, it's a program called 'siad', and can be downloaded here: https://github.com/NebulousLabs/Sia/releases/tag/v0.4.8-beta

Personally, I would never save on SIA network nothing more than a THIRD copy of my files until I see thousands of hosts running.

Why? There is absolutely no need for that.

I think you have a mis-perception about what is required to keep data secure. Amazon doesn't have thousands of hosts, they put your data in single datacenter. The next version will have better redundancy information so you can see how your files are doing, but to the best of my knowledge no file has ever been lost on the Sia network. Our algorithms have improved significantly since the last release, file will be even more secure on v0.5.0.


One can't compete Amazon, Google or Microsoft using the same technology they are using. Just because of X-redundancy, storage price will be X-times higher. Unless army of unused HDD parts jumps into equation with Y-times lower price. Competitive condition is Y to be significantly higher than X. My imagination of future SIA network was massive number of small hosts.

We aren't using the same technology that they are using. Are you familiar with Reed-Solomon coding? It makes storing files online substantially more fault tolerant. Currently, we store 5 copies of the file across 10 hosts. The original file can be recovered from *any* 2 of the hosts, which means that you just need 20% of the hosts to be online when you want the file. Host uptime on our network is over 90%, so the chance that a full 8 out of 10 are going to be down is very slim. These numbers will get substantially better as the number of hosts increase, but already they are good enough to not be causing problems.

Interally, most datacenters do you 3 redundancy, by the way. Additionally, as you can see from our pricing we are able to compete on price, even at this early stage.
chup
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December 23, 2015, 09:49:27 AM
 #2537


We aren't using the same technology that they are using. Are you familiar with Reed-Solomon coding? It makes storing files online substantially more fault tolerant. Currently, we store 5 copies of the file across 10 hosts. The original file can be recovered from *any* 2 of the hosts, which means that you just need 20% of the hosts to be online when you want the file. Host uptime on our network is over 90%, so the chance that a full 8 out of 10 are going to be down is very slim. These numbers will get substantially better as the number of hosts increase, but already they are good enough to not be causing problems.

Interally, most datacenters do you 3 redundancy, by the way. Additionally, as you can see from our pricing we are able to compete on price, even at this early stage.

Still 3 times more space needed. Meaning, SIA hosts should level hosting prices being more than 3 times lower compared to existing cloud services. I don't think that profi high-capacity data centers could offer 4 times lower price. Hobby hosts could do that. And SIA needs many of them to be able to knock on Mega's door and say "look what capacity and price I can offer"...

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December 23, 2015, 02:36:27 PM
Last edit: December 23, 2015, 03:24:02 PM by MinermanNC
 #2538

looks like a decent project but coin supply is retarded sadly Smiley
Does it really matter how many coins there are? The price of storage use will be set by the host. Whether there is 1 billion or 20 billion coins. I think the important aspect of the large coin supply is to insure there is enough to meet large scale storage demands.

What you may pay now or in the future on an exchange for coins is less a factor minus speculation, for what you may be paying when you use them for storage hosting. Of course if hosting goes up per GB/month then it will require you to purchase more coins to meet your needs, which I assume will push up exchange prices. The eco system will balance itself out. Also miners will not mine at a loss, so that will effect prices as well. But to say there is a retarded amount of coins... well we just have no way to determine that right now.  Smiley

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Taek (OP)
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December 23, 2015, 10:04:00 PM
 #2539


We aren't using the same technology that they are using. Are you familiar with Reed-Solomon coding? It makes storing files online substantially more fault tolerant. Currently, we store 5 copies of the file across 10 hosts. The original file can be recovered from *any* 2 of the hosts, which means that you just need 20% of the hosts to be online when you want the file. Host uptime on our network is over 90%, so the chance that a full 8 out of 10 are going to be down is very slim. These numbers will get substantially better as the number of hosts increase, but already they are good enough to not be causing problems.

Interally, most datacenters do you 3 redundancy, by the way. Additionally, as you can see from our pricing we are able to compete on price, even at this early stage.

Still 3 times more space needed. Meaning, SIA hosts should level hosting prices being more than 3 times lower compared to existing cloud services. I don't think that profi high-capacity data centers could offer 4 times lower price. Hobby hosts could do that. And SIA needs many of them to be able to knock on Mega's door and say "look what capacity and price I can offer"...

I do believe that the data disagrees with you. Also, at today's prices it's quite manageable for a professional hosting service to undercut Amazon by about 3x, Amazon has a huge markup because they are the name that everyone recognizes. Sia makes needing that name irrelevant, which is one of our biggest innovations.
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December 23, 2015, 11:15:44 PM
 #2540

Interally, most datacenters do you 3 redundancy, by the way. Additionally, as you can see from our pricing we are able to compete on price, even at this early stage.

Still 3 times more space needed. Meaning, SIA hosts should level hosting prices being more than 3 times lower compared to existing cloud services. I don't think that profi high-capacity data centers could offer 4 times lower price. Hobby hosts could do that. And SIA needs many of them to be able to knock on Mega's door and say "look what capacity and price I can offer"...

Just a word on MEGA. Kim Dotcom lost his extradition case. Both him and very likely his closest collaborators may find themselves soon on a plane to the US. Also, he's basically broke. I've moved all my stuff of MEGA as I'm waiting for the house of cards to fall very soon. All the better for Sia of course. I think a lot of MEGA folks will start looking for alternative safe storage.
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