[ANN] Sia - Decentralized Storage

[dasource]

For clarity sake can Taek confirm that if you have funds in a pre-v3 wallet and import into a v4 wallet which includes the HD Wallet ... only newly created addresses are protected by the HD seed (i.e. it does not create  a transaction to move all funds from old addresses into a new HD derived address) and any older address and thus funds will not be recoverable without the full wallet backup i.e. assuming the HD seed will restore your full balance is wrongly assumed.

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[4emily]

I'm currently running "Sia UI version: 0.4.6-beta   Sia version: 0.4.4" (as per the About section of my wallet)

Do I need to update to v.0.4.8 or can I just wait until v.0.5.0 is released and update direct to that from 0.4.6?

Also (another basic question I'm afraid): How do I back up the wallet?

Thanks in advance  

For some reason I thought there was a 'back up wallet' button in the UI, but I guess not. I'm surprised we made it this far without adding that. In the folder containing the UI, go to resources/app/Sia/wallet/wallet.json. You can copy it over.

When upgrading, it's probably okay to go from 0.4.4 to 0.5.0, but I'm not 100% sure. I remember there were some problems with 0.4.4 which is why we released later versions with a quick turnaround.

Thanks

[Taek]

For clarity sake can Taek confirm that if you have funds in a pre-v3 wallet and import into a v4 wallet which includes the HD Wallet ... only newly created addresses are protected by the HD seed (i.e. it does not create  a transaction to move all funds from old addresses into a new HD derived address) and any older address and thus funds will not be recoverable without the full wallet backup i.e. assuming the HD seed will restore your full balance is wrongly assumed.

v0.3.3.3 is the first wallet that was on the real chain. Any siacoins you made with an earlier wallet do not exist.

If you import coins into a wallet, only newly created addresses are protected by the seed (btw, it's not an HD seed, it's just a normal seed). Over time (as you upload stuff and spend money), the coins will slowly be moved over into new addresses (just by nature of how the wallet does refund addresses), but there is currently no 'sweep' button that would allow you to transfer all coins to addresses on a new seed. We'll add sweeping at some point, but probably not for a few months.

[Scalextrix]

Hi, SC newbie here.  First of all getting synced was easy, well done!  
Some feature requests:
1/ I missed the notification to port forward, it vanishes after a few seconds, can you make it persistent?
2/ Looks like I have to have the wallet fully unlocked to be a farmer and pick up contracts, seems very insecure.  Can you make the wallet 'unlocked for farming only' and to fully unlock you need the passphrase again, (I have seen similar on other coins)?
3/ On the subject of security, I know you (and so do I) want a secure coin, but please add a user generated passphrase option.  I dont want my passphrases written anywhere.  Set a standard if you like, 50+ characters mix of upper/lower + numbers and special - my 'memory wallet' passphrases exceed that.
4/ I would like to have a preferred list of storage clients, say I want to support a charity with cheap storage below the SC market rate, if they give me their wallet address I can add that and support them privately, without hurting the overall market rate.
5/ Please let me run Sia from my NAS drive where I have 1.5 TB free.
6/ Creating an app for Synology boxes would probably help you with storage volumes.
7/ Please allow Sia to be minimised to the sys tray in windows.

I tend to have a lot of crazy ideas, thanks for listening and good luck!

[akaman]

On this:

4/ I would like to have a preferred list of storage clients, say I want to support a charity with cheap storage below the SC market rate, if they give me their wallet address I can add that and support them privately, without hurting the overall market rate.

you could configure your firewall to be open on port 9982 only to known IPs (i.e. those you want to support). That way, no one else could upload to your host.

This does seem rather pointless though, since data that is uploaded is currently made 6x redundant on the Sia network. Also, files are split in pieces and distributed across hosts. This is all to ensure that even if a significant number of hosts go down data is still safe

Meaning, your preferred partner still have to upload to multiple other hosts besides yours. In fact, your host may not even be selected by the Sia client running on your preferred partners computer as host selection is random, though weighted by published price.

I think that what you are requesting is not really compatible with the Sia protocol and if enforced would reduced the networks reliability overall.

If you wanted to support just one uploader, you would be better simply using rscync etc.

[Scalextrix]

On this:

4/ I would like to have a preferred list of storage clients, say I want to support a charity with cheap storage below the SC market rate, if they give me their wallet address I can add that and support them privately, without hurting the overall market rate.

you could configure your firewall to be open on port 9982 only to known IPs (i.e. those you want to support). That way, no one else could upload to your host.

This does seem rather pointless though, since data that is uploaded is currently made 6x redundant on the Sia network. Also, files are split in pieces and distributed across hosts. This is all to ensure that even if a significant number of hosts go down data is still safe

Meaning, your preferred partner still have to upload to multiple other hosts besides yours. In fact, your host may not even be selected by the Sia client running on your preferred partners computer as host selection is random, though weighted by published price.

I think that what you are requesting is not really compatible with the Sia protocol and if enforced would reduced the networks reliability overall.

If you wanted to support just one uploader, you would be better simply using rscync etc.

Im not suggesting that I be guaranteed to store a copy of the data for the user I set as preferred, only that if I do the contract will be set at a discount.  Imagine a cancer charity signs up for Sia, 25% of the available storage hosts may be prepared to get a reduced return if they host any of the data.  Im assuming the charity would have to make 6 contracts per set of data (one with each user storing the data) and would therefore have a 25% chance of getting a lower rate than on the open Sia market.
If Im way off track, no worries, just a suggestion.

[dedmaroz]

still no mining pool for siacoin?

[akaman]

Im not suggesting that I be guaranteed to store a copy of the data for the user I set as preferred, only that if I do the contract will be set at a discount.  Imagine a cancer charity signs up for Sia, 25% of the available storage hosts may be prepared to get a reduced return if they host any of the data.  Im assuming the charity would have to make 6 contracts per set of data (one with each user storing the data) and would therefore have a 25% chance of getting a lower rate than on the open Sia market.
If Im way off track, no worries, just a suggestion.

I think its an interesting proposition: be able to set a discount for organizations your support. It would require some changes to the protocol for sure. The simplest 'fix' would be to change the hosting charge on the fly as preferred IPs connect. But this would mess up the host selection algorithm; when uploading hosts are heavily biased by cost, so cheaper hosts are preferred before more expensive hosts.

I guess that as we see Sia being developed, there will be more options to configure and use Sia per-user-preferences. Currently, we're locked into a bunch of defaults, but I'm sure adjustable parameters will be opened up for customization gradually in the future. Whether we see this is up to the devs, but I like the idea.

[akaman]

still no mining pool for siacoin?

Right :-)

Sia: Still no mining pool ^TM

[mishax1]

Sia, the only coin without a mining pool.

[PondSea]

Do we have a wallet that will hold siafunds yet?

I am on version 3.3 still (havent opened it for a few months)

[Scalextrix]

Im not suggesting that I be guaranteed to store a copy of the data for the user I set as preferred, only that if I do the contract will be set at a discount.  Imagine a cancer charity signs up for Sia, 25% of the available storage hosts may be prepared to get a reduced return if they host any of the data.  Im assuming the charity would have to make 6 contracts per set of data (one with each user storing the data) and would therefore have a 25% chance of getting a lower rate than on the open Sia market.
If Im way off track, no worries, just a suggestion.

I think its an interesting proposition: be able to set a discount for organizations your support. It would require some changes to the protocol for sure. The simplest 'fix' would be to change the hosting charge on the fly as preferred IPs connect. But this would mess up the host selection algorithm; when uploading hosts are heavily biased by cost, so cheaper hosts are preferred before more expensive hosts.

I guess that as we see Sia being developed, there will be more options to configure and use Sia per-user-preferences. Currently, we're locked into a bunch of defaults, but I'm sure adjustable parameters will be opened up for customization gradually in the future. Whether we see this is up to the devs, but I like the idea.

So lets file it until a time when there is less heavy lifting for the devs, but I could imagine giving users even a perception of control over what they are storing would be popular.

[meyer]

is there a paperwallet for sia?

[Taek]

Hi, SC newbie here.  First of all getting synced was easy, well done!  
Some feature requests:
1/ I missed the notification to port forward, it vanishes after a few seconds, can you make it persistent?
2/ Looks like I have to have the wallet fully unlocked to be a farmer and pick up contracts, seems very insecure.  Can you make the wallet 'unlocked for farming only' and to fully unlock you need the passphrase again, (I have seen similar on other coins)?
3/ On the subject of security, I know you (and so do I) want a secure coin, but please add a user generated passphrase option.  I dont want my passphrases written anywhere.  Set a standard if you like, 50+ characters mix of upper/lower + numbers and special - my 'memory wallet' passphrases exceed that.
4/ I would like to have a preferred list of storage clients, say I want to support a charity with cheap storage below the SC market rate, if they give me their wallet address I can add that and support them privately, without hurting the overall market rate.
5/ Please let me run Sia from my NAS drive where I have 1.5 TB free.
6/ Creating an app for Synology boxes would probably help you with storage volumes.
7/ Please allow Sia to be minimised to the sys tray in windows.

I tend to have a lot of crazy ideas, thanks for listening and good luck!

I almost think that we should have a separate client entirely for hosting, with a separate wallet that feeds income into the primary wallet, that way the host can be unlocked all the time without putting many funds at risk. We'll have to work through that more in the future though.

The API actually supports users choosing their own password, and if you use the command line you can achieve it. I want to protect users who are likely to pick bad passwords, so I want the task of choosing your own to need to be deliberate and inconvenient. The command for choosing your own password is 'siac wallet init -p {password}', but you can only choose your own password if you haven't already initialized the wallet.

What do we have to do to support NAS? At this point in time, we have a much heavier supply side than we do a demand side, so we are very heavily focused on increasing demand. We don't have a problem with storage volumes at the moment, even though lots of people have been having trouble with ports, incompatibility, etc. I know it sounds weird, but we don't need more storage unless people are uploading more of their files to the network. We will of course continue to improve the hosting experience but the renting experience is much more of a priority.

I think the next version allows Sia to be minimized, but I'm not positive.

is there a paperwallet for sia?

No paper wallet for Sia.

[Taek]

Do we have a wallet that will hold siafunds yet?

I am on version 3.3 still (havent opened it for a few months)

v0.5.0 has support for siafunds in the GUI

[TacoByte]

Here are a few ideas to make Sia more attractive for renters and get more contracts filled.

It's been mentioned a few times, but persistence of files across clients is a real deal maker/breaker. This is in line with what people expect of cloud storage. The holy grail is storing files in a HD brain wallet. That would turn Sia into the most powerful cloud storage system ever, full stop. It will be an instant hit among crypto enthusiasts, journalists, etc...

Also, If I suffer a hard drive crash and lose my wallet files, I shouldn't also lose access to all my stored files, in fact, I kinda used Sia to prevent such a thing from happening in the first place. Having to back up a wallet file in addition to saving my files on Sia is counter intuitive. People will get confused, lose files and freak out if this is not sorted out.

Also on the front of avoiding catastrophic failures, extending the renewal system. If you could preload a given file to be saved for say 1 year and then don't have to worry about keeping the daemon open, that would be fantastic. If I want to use Sia as a long term archival database (and I actually do), I sort of want to stash my files and forget about it without having to remember to run daemons and port things over when I change computers or have a friend use the app if I go on an extended holiday. At the very least, an independent warning system (email?) should be put in place that reminds people of the cutoff date, though I'm not sure how you would do that. The varying price is a challenge to ensuring long term reliable contracts, but there is a need for long term hands free storage even just for the sake of convenience. Maybe an intermediary dapp/contract that you can over provision with siacoin and whose task it is to keep your contracts going as long as there are funds?

Using Sia as a folder in your OS, in a way that hooks into the file system in a proper low level way like a symbolic link or a remote drive or something. Also in line with expectations around this kind of service, and just necessary and mega useful for all kinds of applications.

Not having to upload the file once for every redundancy factor unit. If there is absolutely no way around this, perhaps a bridge system could be devised, where the files are transferred to a carrier service that is then charged to distribute it to the appropriate redundancy in exchange for a Sia fee. The difference between uploading 100mb and 500mb is already too much for many/most people.

It's true that splitting the renter and host apps is a good idea. Segment and target your markets in a more focused way. Kind of like how it makes sense to split Bitcoin wallet and miner apps the same way those communities can overlap but often differ.

In-client Shapeshift.io integration. That would make the wallet more coin-agnostic and friendlier for people with Bitcoin that might not be familiar with alts.

In the same vein, a commercial service running on Sia that lets people pay in btc or fiat. Such an offering could be an instant hit depending on how attractive you can make it. The prices could be adjusted in real time according to the offer, guaranteeing the absolute best deals. That would really help drive demand.

[akaman]

Also, If I suffer a hard drive crash and lose my wallet files, I shouldn't also lose access to all my stored files....

Right, currently you need a backup of both your wallet and the /renter directory (where all the .sia files are).

If I want to use Sia as a long term archival database (and I actually do), I sort of want to stash my files and forget about it...

In v0.5.0 coming soon you will be able to set your own period. So, you could increase the default 6,000 blocks to something much higher.

Running the client regularly, however, ensures the redundancy of your files on the network. As hosts come and go, redundancy naturally drops and the client is set to automatically repair files. If you don't run the client you loose redundancy and in the worst case your files become irretrievable.

Using Sia as a folder in your OS, in a way that hooks into the file system in a proper low level

There is a Gnome shell extension that sort of does this. Eventually, I would expect other OSs to follow suit. What you are asking for is all possible with the Sia API.

Not having to upload the file once for every redundancy factor unit.

As the number of participating hosts grow the need for redundancy falls. Basically, down to x1.5 with about 50 hosts I think.

In-client Shapeshift.io integration.

ShapeShift does not currently support Siacoin. I have asked them N times to consider it, but I guess they receive hundreds of requests like that per day.

In the same vein, a commercial service running on Sia that lets people pay in btc or fiat.

Absolutely! I'm sure there are 3rd parties working on this as we speak (type).

All great suggestions me think!!

[Scalextrix]

Hi, SC newbie here.  First of all getting synced was easy, well done!  
Some feature requests:
1/ I missed the notification to port forward, it vanishes after a few seconds, can you make it persistent?
2/ Looks like I have to have the wallet fully unlocked to be a farmer and pick up contracts, seems very insecure.  Can you make the wallet 'unlocked for farming only' and to fully unlock you need the passphrase again, (I have seen similar on other coins)?
3/ On the subject of security, I know you (and so do I) want a secure coin, but please add a user generated passphrase option.  I dont want my passphrases written anywhere.  Set a standard if you like, 50+ characters mix of upper/lower + numbers and special - my 'memory wallet' passphrases exceed that.
4/ I would like to have a preferred list of storage clients, say I want to support a charity with cheap storage below the SC market rate, if they give me their wallet address I can add that and support them privately, without hurting the overall market rate.
5/ Please let me run Sia from my NAS drive where I have 1.5 TB free.
6/ Creating an app for Synology boxes would probably help you with storage volumes.
7/ Please allow Sia to be minimised to the sys tray in windows.

I tend to have a lot of crazy ideas, thanks for listening and good luck!

I almost think that we should have a separate client entirely for hosting, with a separate wallet that feeds income into the primary wallet, that way the host can be unlocked all the time without putting many funds at risk. We'll have to work through that more in the future though.

The API actually supports users choosing their own password, and if you use the command line you can achieve it. I want to protect users who are likely to pick bad passwords, so I want the task of choosing your own to need to be deliberate and inconvenient. The command for choosing your own password is 'siac wallet init -p {password}', but you can only choose your own password if you haven't already initialized the wallet.

What do we have to do to support NAS? At this point in time, we have a much heavier supply side than we do a demand side, so we are very heavily focused on increasing demand. We don't have a problem with storage volumes at the moment, even though lots of people have been having trouble with ports, incompatibility, etc. I know it sounds weird, but we don't need more storage unless people are uploading more of their files to the network. We will of course continue to improve the hosting experience but the renting experience is much more of a priority.

I think the next version allows Sia to be minimized, but I'm not positive.

is there a paperwallet for sia?

No paper wallet for Sia.

Thanks for the replies, Im seeing this is an active community which is key for success.  I also would like to use Sia as archive, I use Amazon Glacier for that now but I think Sia could do that better/cheaper.
Sorry to be a fool, where is/how do I launch Sia as command line for Windows?
You gotta plug that security hole with the unlocked wallet, for now Ill keep my SC on one machine always locked and set the other as the one available for hosting.

[Taek]

Thanks for the replies, Im seeing this is an active community which is key for success.  I also would like to use Sia as archive, I use Amazon Glacier for that now but I think Sia could do that better/cheaper.
Sorry to be a fool, where is/how do I launch Sia as command line for Windows?
You gotta plug that security hole with the unlocked wallet, for now Ill keep my SC on one machine always locked and set the other as the one available for hosting.

What security hole are you talking about? We do recommend keeping most of your coins in a cold wallet (unplugged from the internet, and backed up in several places), and only keeping coins you need in the near future on an open machine.

v0.5.0 is aiming to make Sia a substantial improvement to Amazon Glacier. We're trying to work out all the kinks, and I think we've come a long way since v0.4.8.

You can drag-and-drop the 'siac' or 'siad' binary into a command prompt. The v0.4.8 binaries can be downloaded here: https://github.com/NebulousLabs/Sia/releases/tag/v0.4.8-beta

In v0.5.0 coming soon you will be able to set your own period. So, you could increase the default 6,000 blocks to something much higher.

That is incorrect. The big change is that files will automatically re-upload, meaning that they'll stay online so long as you continue running the daemon. For v0.5.0, files will go up for 4 weeks by default and renew when there are 2 weeks left. The numbers are small so we can see how the hosts + renters behave on a short timescale in a live environment before switching to bigger file contracts. For v1.0, I think the upload time will be 6 months (26 weeks), renewing when there are 12 weeks remaining. We will probably add customizability to those numbers, but those customizations are not ready for v0.5.0.

[akaman]

In v0.5.0 coming soon you will be able to set your own period. So, you could increase the default 6,000 blocks to something much higher.

That is incorrect. The big change is that files will automatically re-upload, meaning that they'll stay online so long as you continue running the daemon. For v0.5.0, files will go up for 4 weeks by default and renew when there are 2 weeks left. The numbers are small so we can see how the hosts + renters behave on a short timescale in a live environment before switching to bigger file contracts. For v1.0, I think the upload time will be 6 months (26 weeks), renewing when there are 12 weeks remaining. We will probably add customizability to those numbers, but those customizations are not ready for v0.5.0.

In that case you should update your v0.5.0 API documentation. In the section /renter/upload/{siapath} [POST] it states:

Code:

'duration' is the number of blocks for which the file will be available. If the renew parameter is true, this parameter will be ignored.

Source: https://github.com/NebulousLabs/Sia/blob/master/doc/API.md

My interpretation was that 'duration' therefore is customizable to any number of blocks.