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Author Topic: "Quickseller" marked my account red rating with no evidence in ANGER, UNETHICAL  (Read 2289 times)
Vod
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May 18, 2015, 10:01:30 AM
 #41

Yeah true. Only Badbear can find a connection with the IP addresses and not the others who have left him negative just based on Badbear's trusted feedback as they have no evidence to present here. To me it just appears as trust abuse.

I'm guilty of being one who left negative feedback based on BB's ability to look at IP addresses.

The OP has sent me many death threats.  So IMHO it's important for new users to see that scum get more that a simple -6.  That scum has done much more than scam.

If I knew who he was and where he lived, he'd get Alberta Justice from me.   He probably wouldn't so quick to throw out death threats after that.   Smiley

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Leandrowin
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May 18, 2015, 10:01:46 AM
 #42

Vod is a bad-pathetic person.

Mmm i can kill this forum, i am a master doing DoS/DDoS attacks  Cool

This is a stupid forum, this is not like google/facebook.

Plus i have better things...

Vod live your life.
Vod
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May 18, 2015, 10:04:35 AM
 #43

Plus i have better things...

So then why do you keep coming back?  Good luck on your other projects my friend. 

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Muhammed Zakir
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May 18, 2015, 11:32:48 AM
 #44

OP received a valid negative feedback from Badbear which is the only feedback anyone should consider bearing in mind that Badbear is the admin. Rest those who left negative feedback don't have any proof/evidence and hence their feedback doesn't make sense.

I don't get if one has already received a negative feedback from the admin or a default trust member, why do other members too join the league? Does it improve or make his trust rating more valuable or trustworthy? I don't think so and find it weird ways of entering the default trust system.

If only one user left negative and he/she is removed from default trust list, negative rating will change to neutral rating. So to avoid it, two or more or DF users leave feedback.

OK but in this case Badbear may not be removed from the default trust list so here the other negative ratings don't make sense.
 -snip-

QS left negative feedback before BadBear left and also once you strongly believe a user is scammer, you can leave negative feedback. Leaving more than one feedback will also help in preventing negative trust rating to be a neutral rating.

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May 18, 2015, 12:11:37 PM
 #45

Yeah true. Only Badbear can find a connection with the IP addresses and not the others who have left him negative just based on Badbear's trusted feedback as they have no evidence to present here. To me it just appears as trust abuse.

I'm guilty of being one who left negative feedback based on BB's ability to look at IP addresses.

The OP has sent me many death threats.  So IMHO it's important for new users to see that scum get more that a simple -6.  That scum has done much more than scam.

If I knew who he was and where he lived, he'd get Alberta Justice from me.   He probably wouldn't so quick to throw out death threats after that.   Smiley


Oh damn! I am sorry but I dint know that. He's a psycho.


QS left negative feedback before BadBear left and also once you strongly believe a user is scammer, you can leave negative feedback. Leaving more than one feedback will also help in preventing negative trust rating to be a neutral rating.

OK. The trust system doesn't show the time and all show the same date. Also, QS dint give any reference nor evidence so his feedback unlike the user railzand who left him feedback claiming the same with a reference to a post that has been deleted. Preventing from a neutral rating is definitely a good idea but there are less chances that a scammer can get positives from a default trust member (which is the case with the OP). If I believe a person is a scammer for sure, I'll leave him negative feedback (but that's not when others leave him feedback and then I negate him).

In this case, the OP does seem suspicious as he hasn't only received feedback from Badbear but from others who have made such claims 4 months back.

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May 19, 2015, 07:11:04 PM
 #46

-snip-
I think having a history of being fair with your trust. If you have a history of being right about these kinds of things then the community will believe your trust ratings. If you have a history of being unfair with trust ratings then your trust ratings will be ignored. If someone has a history of being right about figuring out alts of scammers, then when they say that someone is an alt of a scammer, then their word will be believed.

The same arguement could be applied to positive trust received. Just because you have been trustworthy in the past does not make you trustworthy now. Its the DT equivalent of the long con.
Well people that have large amounts of trust often do not need to use escrow and others are willing to send first without hesitation.
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A negative rating is not a criminal punishment, and as a result it does not need to have the same protections that a criminal courtroom would provide. A negative trust rating is to provide a warning to others to trade with extreme caution and to alert their potential trading partners to take precautions when dealing with them. The primary effect of a negative rating is that it makes it more difficult for them to scam in the future.

Its not in a sense that you lock someone up, but it is in a sense that you can make it very difficult for someone to trade with others here. Its very close to a fine. This is esp. true for older accounts. A newbie account is quickly replaced, an established (as in high rank) account is not.
maybe. However overall the decision to leave feedback is based on your judgement.
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Giving ways for scammers to avoid detection means that scammers will have an easier time pulling off their scams.

Yes. Hiding evidence of their scams means that you undermine the trust system and over time rending it useless. Any scammer can get enough information about how to hide their tracks without you revealing their idiocity. If the trust in the current system is destroyed it is useless and can not easily be replaced.
I disagree. If you have a reputation of successfully outing scams then others will eventually stop looking at the evidence and taking your word. I see little reason to create a thread few people will bother to read when the rating is taken on its face. If a conclusion is disputed then evidence can be provided to support such conclusion.
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-snip-
I think it also makes my point. After presenting my proof that they were the same person, additional precautions were taken to cover his tracks. After seeing that his bc.i wallet was leaking the identity of his alts, he started using bitstamp and bitdice.me as his "wallet", leaving significantly less evidence then would otherwise be expected.

Next step will be mixers if it turns out bitstamp rats them out for a court order. Dark wallet. Anonymous focused alt coins. There are plenty options. Increasing the workload for scammers is a good thing.
It would create more work for scammers but it would also make detection more difficult, potentially to the point where it is not possible.
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-snip-
I didn't post the evidence, but my allegation was still true. Asking for evidence when you are guilty of something is trying to get off on a technicality. As I mentioned previously, negative trust is not a criminal punishment, but is rather a warning to others

No asking for evidence is the only way to defend yourself. It is impossible to proof that you did not do something. It is however possible to show error in your chain of evidence.
This assumes that the accused thinks it makes sense to defend themselves. If someone is called out as a scammer, and knows they scammed then they might not even bother trying to defend themselves. Obviously we sometimes get people like the OP who know they are guilty and want to create a bunch of drama anyway.


My point is, that if someone has a reputation of accurately outing scammers then the scammer will not bother to ask for proof because he knows it can be provided. As what happened in this case, if proof is requested then it can be provided (it was quickly provided when asked for by the OP).

Also not all deals are done openly via threads. It is not uncommon for a deal to be done entirely via PM when one person sees a post indicating that they have something for sale/want to buy something (for example person B posting on person A's thread offering to buy a widget, then person C can PM person B to try to work out a deal if A and B cannot reach a deal.
shorena
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May 20, 2015, 03:46:25 PM
 #47

-snip-

My point is, that if someone has a reputation of accurately outing scammers then the scammer will not bother to ask for proof because he knows it can be provided. As what happened in this case, if proof is requested then it can be provided (it was quickly provided when asked for by the OP).

Also not all deals are done openly via threads. It is not uncommon for a deal to be done entirely via PM when one person sees a post indicating that they have something for sale/want to buy something (for example person B posting on person A's thread offering to buy a widget, then person C can PM person B to try to work out a deal if A and B cannot reach a deal.

I think we just have to agree to disagree here. I value your input because it is well researched not because it comes from a certain account. Maybe I am the minority here that does not make the standards less important.

If it is like you say that building a reputation to leave an accurate rating is enough than it is exactly like the long con with trades. If any dispute will just be seen as a scammer causing drama and no evidence is requested or vetted a position on DT can easily be exploited.

Im not really here, its just your imagination.
ACCTseller
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May 20, 2015, 04:05:30 PM
 #48

-snip-

My point is, that if someone has a reputation of accurately outing scammers then the scammer will not bother to ask for proof because he knows it can be provided. As what happened in this case, if proof is requested then it can be provided (it was quickly provided when asked for by the OP).

Also not all deals are done openly via threads. It is not uncommon for a deal to be done entirely via PM when one person sees a post indicating that they have something for sale/want to buy something (for example person B posting on person A's thread offering to buy a widget, then person C can PM person B to try to work out a deal if A and B cannot reach a deal.

I think we just have to agree to disagree here. I value your input because it is well researched not because it comes from a certain account. Maybe I am the minority here that does not make the standards less important.

If it is like you say that building a reputation to leave an accurate rating is enough than it is exactly like the long con with trades. If any dispute will just be seen as a scammer causing drama and no evidence is requested or vetted a position on DT can easily be exploited.
Well evidence will be provided once it is requested from the person who receives the negative feedback (or anyone else who questions it).

When someone is an alt of a scammer then they know they are an alt, although they likely think they did a good job of covering up this fact. When KoS opened this thread he knew that he was KoS, he was bluffing in saying that I did not have any evidence.

Ironically, it was because I was trolled by him in my 'use escrow' thread in currency exchange that I received a tip via PM with evidence to support that the OP is KoS, and it checked out.
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