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Author Topic: sawdice the New Age of Dice - Let's play a game.  (Read 27017 times)
dooglus
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June 03, 2015, 02:24:08 AM
 #161

Thats the list I want to publish. One written by a programmer first, gambler second, and a hardcore cryptography enthusiast who's also pretty decently well versed in probability and statistics. It's readily apparent we need it.

I've been thinking the same thing. I'm not really in a position to make such a list, since people would think I'm biased. But when I see people like these sawdice jokers knocking good provably fair systems for silly reasons like "the server seed doesn't change every roll" it makes me want to...

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June 03, 2015, 04:12:11 AM
 #162

Thats the list I want to publish. One written by a programmer first, gambler second, and a hardcore cryptography enthusiast who's also pretty decently well versed in probability and statistics. It's readily apparent we need it.

I've been thinking the same thing. I'm not really in a position to make such a list, since people would think I'm biased. But when I see people like these sawdice jokers knocking good provably fair systems for silly reasons like "the server seed doesn't change every roll" it makes me want to...

Those people, you won't ever change their minds. Go look at the bitcoinbetgames threads. The site is a MESS. Their provably fair system is horrific, the site contradicts itself, they claim they are using sha256 hashes, but they are 40 character sha1's that don't even hash out to sha1, and they zeroed out a players balance on the "suspicion" he "hacked" them after he apparently made a few big wins, and made claims that were completely contradicted by the player's posted screenshots. I called them out on ALL of it. They misquoted me, deflected 90% of my accusations, and changed the thread title.

EVERY - SINGLE - POST - since the dev replied saying they revamped their system so they will reveal their server seed every Sunday (WHAT?!) has been supportive, encouraging, and optimistic about how great the site is.

I expect my thread/reviews will help about 5% of the people who even bother to read it. The rest, the hopeful sheep who throw their faith into a toilet of a website, will not care. I know this. But hey, if I can save a few people the grief I went through, it' worth it.

Yes, sawdice idiots who think the site is still coming back, and who deposited money despite the 100 red flags, I'm talking to you.
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June 03, 2015, 04:47:02 AM
 #163

Just FYI I am planning to do exactly that (rating provably fair implementations in transparent way) for dice sites. I really do hate the average review/overview site too since I know for a fact several sites even charge a fee for a (good) review and all reviews are very subjective anyway. That's also the reason why I started my site since it's completely based on numbers/stats and facts. The only thing I am planning to review is the provably fair implementation of all sites and truthfully I expect to have criticism for all sites, even popular ones (JD/PD and such are close to perfect tho :p but still got some small things :x)



I will probably not look at casino sites though TBH.

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June 03, 2015, 09:54:45 AM
 #164

if next month a new dice site pops up and it's "Friday The 13th" themed site. we may know who it is.





im sick of scammers. hope no one got taken for a lot
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June 03, 2015, 04:15:13 PM
 #165


Well, there is already my Overview of Popular Bitcoin Gambling Websites thread that I maintain, though I won't be able to update it too much this week. You might be wasting your efforts a little bit if you simply make a replica of that thread, as I'm soon going to update it to include the newer gambling websites that aren't currently on the list and I haven't had a chance to add yet.

Except, and not downplaying your work at all, most people do not understand just how these sites CAN cheat. You give a surface review, and rate some areas based on personal opinion. SatoshiDice has a "C+" for Trustworthiness, yet, that's not defined as to what it is. It's your general feeling about the site and how it's run.

I'm talking purely about cryptography and the code. You can have the most honest person in the world running the crappiest code, and lose your money. Or someone with piles of money and a great reputation and amazing communication and a top notch support staff, bonuses they pay out, issues that get fixed... and a really sneaky way to cheat that 99.9% of people would never notice. Or think to even look for.

See my other thread today? PocketDice, by all accounts, looks great. Except their provably fair, is not. I am in no way saying it's intentional - I am NOT saying they are cheating - but I am saying their system is not provably fair and if they wanted to, they COULD cheat.

Thats the list I want to publish. One written by a programmer first, gambler second, and a hardcore cryptography enthusiast who's also pretty decently well versed in probability and statistics. It's readily apparent we need it.

Oh of course. Many of the current implementations of provably fair gambling mechanisms, more with general casinos e.g. with roulette than dicing though, are susceptible to a lot of exploits - many of which will still produce provably fair data. I assume you've seen this amazing post on /r/Bitcoin which talks about sending AJAX partials down from the server in order to compromise a game - and quite often - still be provably fair. Unfortunately not many people even bother to verify their bets, let alone go into that much detail looking for an exploit (and exploits such as the Stalling exploit are beautiful in that people will write it off as their own fault).

When it comes to dicing sites it's much less complex than that /r/Bitcoin post due to the nature of it, but people still fall flat. They just can't be bothered to do research.

BTW I do have a disclaimer that these are, mostly, my own personal opinions. That thread doesn't really go into detail on the provably fair mechanisms of the sites, that's definitely a place you could make a thread.

BA Computer Science, University of Oxford
Dissertation was about threat modelling on distributed ledgers.
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June 03, 2015, 04:20:08 PM
 #166

if next month a new dice site pops up and it's "Friday The 13th" themed site. we may know who it is.





im sick of scammers. hope no one got taken for a lot
if he is an intelligent scammer he surely wont do the same theme, as most probably he reads the comments and he wont be so suspicious
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June 03, 2015, 04:22:47 PM
 #167

if next month a new dice site pops up and it's "Friday The 13th" themed site. we may know who it is.





im sick of scammers. hope no one got taken for a lot
if he is an intelligent scammer he surely wont do the same theme, as most probably he reads the comments and he wont be so suspicious

i would be suspicious of any new site that comes along in the next month or so at the very least, especially if its a dice site, the scammer might just make a new dice site with the same script.
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June 03, 2015, 04:42:20 PM
 #168

if next month a new dice site pops up and it's "Friday The 13th" themed site. we may know who it is.





im sick of scammers. hope no one got taken for a lot
if he is an intelligent scammer he surely wont do the same theme, as most probably he reads the comments and he wont be so suspicious

i would be suspicious of any new site that comes along in the next month or so at the very least, especially if its a dice site, the scammer might just make a new dice site with the same script.
i highly doubt that someone after scamming so hard would take risks and use the very same dice script just use different pictures
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June 03, 2015, 09:22:43 PM
 #169

if next month a new dice site pops up and it's "Friday The 13th" themed site. we may know who it is.





im sick of scammers. hope no one got taken for a lot

as long as they are using a script that is common or being sold by the user that goes by the name of johnny then its already considered as a scam. I'm starting to get fed up with the forum.. scam after the another Sad
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June 04, 2015, 05:40:17 AM
 #170

Looks retarded but all the negative rep is scaring me away. Too bad though because I would have had a bunch of fun here.
Has anyone had any good results so far?

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June 04, 2015, 05:42:12 AM
 #171

Pretty doubtful, they got something out of the site.
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June 04, 2015, 05:43:38 AM
 #172

Pretty doubtful, they got something out of the site.

Pretty doubtful or maybe...

Does anyone know if its a scam for sure yet?

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June 04, 2015, 06:02:05 AM
 #173

Pretty doubtful, they got something out of the site.

Pretty doubtful or maybe...

Does anyone know if its a scam for sure yet?

Looks like it. Too many red flags they couldn't explain away. By the way, you wouldn't be able to play anyway if you tried. The site has been down for days. Supposed to be them trying to fix the issues. But they probably won't come back.

We have temporarily stopped the website until we fix the issues that was mentioned here over the past 2 days.
and we are very thankful to everyone who pointed to those issues and helped us to improve and develop the site.
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June 04, 2015, 08:06:39 PM
 #174

Considering the state of the site and the owner's inactivity, they've probably gone for good, but nobody's actually mentioned losing any money to the site, so unless someone does, it's entirely possible this was just an incompetent dev giving up rather than a clear scam.

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June 04, 2015, 08:31:09 PM
 #175

Considering the state of the site and the owner's inactivity, they've probably gone for good, but nobody's actually mentioned losing any money to the site, so unless someone does, it's entirely possible this was just an incompetent dev giving up rather than a clear scam.

I'm not sure I would admit to having lost funds if I was silly enough to make a significant deposit after seeing so many warnings on this thread. It would be a little embarrassing for sure.

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June 05, 2015, 05:25:55 AM
 #176

Considering the state of the site and the owner's inactivity, they've probably gone for good, but nobody's actually mentioned losing any money to the site, so unless someone does, it's entirely possible this was just an incompetent dev giving up rather than a clear scam.

I'm not sure I would admit to having lost funds if I was silly enough to make a significant deposit after seeing so many warnings on this thread. It would be a little embarrassing for sure.


Well then you're just a weak man. There is nothing wrong with admitting to making a mistake.
We all have, no one is mistake proof.
lol.
I wish we were but we aren't.

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June 05, 2015, 05:45:52 AM
 #177

This is quite disappointing, I think this should be taken as a wake up call to not trust very newly built website with huge amount of money and since some people are not investing any more in Ponzi/HYIP schemes, this is their new policy, grab a cheap domain/script and make a new gambling site with free dice script or something else.

And people will start rolling there without giving it a second though and once the site has enough deposits, just shut it up, grab the money and start another project. Thankfully I didn't deposit anything in it because of being busy. But I would suggest others to not deposit big amount of BTC in fresh sites, although this would affect the legit sites but this is how it has to be until a site is considered safe.

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June 05, 2015, 01:35:02 PM
 #178

This is quite disappointing, I think this should be taken as a wake up call to not trust very newly built website with huge amount of money and since some people are not investing any more in Ponzi/HYIP schemes, this is their new policy, grab a cheap domain/script and make a new gambling site with free dice script or something else.

And people will start rolling there without giving it a second though and once the site has enough deposits, just shut it up, grab the money and start another project. Thankfully I didn't deposit anything in it because of being busy. But I would suggest others to not deposit big amount of BTC in fresh sites, although this would affect the legit sites but this is how it has to be until a site is considered safe.

the distrust drama happened with the DaDice release, maybe people got lax with this one coming out. This is also why many people ask for a no deposit bonus of some sort to test the site and prove its legitimacy.

theres nothing here. message me if you want to put something here.
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June 05, 2015, 02:16:33 PM
 #179

This is quite disappointing, I think this should be taken as a wake up call to not trust very newly built website with huge amount of money and since some people are not investing any more in Ponzi/HYIP schemes, this is their new policy, grab a cheap domain/script and make a new gambling site with free dice script or something else.

And people will start rolling there without giving it a second though and once the site has enough deposits, just shut it up, grab the money and start another project. Thankfully I didn't deposit anything in it because of being busy. But I would suggest others to not deposit big amount of BTC in fresh sites, although this would affect the legit sites but this is how it has to be until a site is considered safe.

the distrust drama happened with the DaDice release, maybe people got lax with this one coming out. This is also why many people ask for a no deposit bonus of some sort to test the site and prove its legitimacy.

The distrust drama began during the time of dicebitco.in and diceninja. I dont think that people are lax coz I didn't saw any complaints in these thread of deposits and withdrawals..
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June 05, 2015, 02:24:39 PM
 #180

This is quite disappointing, I think this should be taken as a wake up call to not trust very newly built website with huge amount of money and since some people are not investing any more in Ponzi/HYIP schemes, this is their new policy, grab a cheap domain/script and make a new gambling site with free dice script or something else.

And people will start rolling there without giving it a second though and once the site has enough deposits, just shut it up, grab the money and start another project. Thankfully I didn't deposit anything in it because of being busy. But I would suggest others to not deposit big amount of BTC in fresh sites, although this would affect the legit sites but this is how it has to be until a site is considered safe.

the distrust drama happened with the DaDice release, maybe people got lax with this one coming out. This is also why many people ask for a no deposit bonus of some sort to test the site and prove its legitimacy.

No people ask for a no deposit bonus threw greed, How are you going to test the "legitimacy" of a site with free funds? It is not possible you don't no a sites legitimacy until nice deposits start rolling and and they are in control 10's or 100's to thousands of coin, every scammer has their bail out target. Very few people can hold back the temptation of turning to the darkside when in control of life changing money. This worked because of the 0% fee the theme and human nature Greed. Dadice is only a recent development, distrust happened long before them,


 
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