dothebeats
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May 20, 2015, 10:54:53 PM |
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-snip-
Even in countries with KYC laws, it should be perfectly legal to have crypto exchange. Since there is no FIAT involed it cannot be used for money laundering per say.
-snip-
You said it, it should be perfectly legal to operate a crypto exchange, and if it is legal, then you are subject to submit to the regulations because you are making money out of it, just in the form of cryptocurrencies. A business should submit to these legal rules to continue operating. Also, aren't you aware that bitcoin can be a medium for money laundering because it has value? Money laundering isn't exclusive to fiat only. |
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forevernoob
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May 20, 2015, 11:02:07 PM |
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Cryptocurrencies could be regarded as a commodity, as it's currently looked at in the U.S(Hence the owner of satoshidice being fined for having a BTC only IPO)
Are you joking? Gold is used in a huge, huge field of products, from jewelry, computers to cell phones, and etc. Without a large userbase, there'd be no one to buy the bitcoins that are mined and dumped on the market everyday.
You are still talking about the US... There are other places in the world my friend. Yes Gold is used by many people but not by everyone. The same goes for Bitcoin. I agree there needs to be people that buy Bitcoin otherwise there would be no demand for it. That's a given... But that doesn't mean everyone needs to buy Bitcoin. |
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celestio
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May 20, 2015, 11:04:11 PM |
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Cryptocurrencies could be regarded as a commodity, as it's currently looked at in the U.S(Hence the owner of satoshidice being fined for having a BTC only IPO)
Are you joking? Gold is used in a huge, huge field of products, from jewelry, computers to cell phones, and etc. Without a large userbase, there'd be no one to buy the bitcoins that are mined and dumped on the market everyday.
You are still talking about the US... There are other places in the world my friend. Yes Gold is used by many people but not by everyone. The same goes for Bitcoin. I agree there needs to be people that buy Bitcoin otherwise there would be no demand for it. That's a given... But that doesn't mean everyone needs to buy Bitcoin. I said Gold is used a very large variety of products, which are then used by people i.e gold has a very large userbase. I never said everyone needs to buy Bitcoin, I said Bitcoin needs to have and keep it's large userbase....I never said anything about "everyone buying it" as that's pretty much impossible..so... Read dothebeats post... -snip-
Even in countries with KYC laws, it should be perfectly legal to have crypto exchange. Since there is no FIAT involed it cannot be used for money laundering per say.
-snip-
You said it, it should be perfectly legal to operate a crypto exchange, and if it is legal, then you are subject to submit to the regulations because you are making money out of it, just in the form of cryptocurrencies. A business should submit to these legal rules to continue operating. Also, aren't you aware that bitcoin can be a medium for money laundering because it has value? Money laundering isn't exclusive to fiat only. |
"The nature of Bitcoin is such that once version 0.1 was released, the core design was set in stone for the rest of its lifetime" - Satoshi Nakamoto, June 17, 2010
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forevernoob
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May 20, 2015, 11:26:25 PM |
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You said it, it should be perfectly legal to operate a crypto exchange, and if it is legal, then you are subject to submit to the regulations because you are making money out of it, just in the form of cryptocurrencies. A business should submit to these legal rules to continue operating.
They were obviously paying their taxes or otherwise they would have been shut down a long time ago. So they where complying with regulations just that the Goverment changed the rules all of a sudden. So the solution would be to move to a country where they don't have as much regulation. Also, aren't you aware that bitcoin can be a medium for money laundering because it has value? Money laundering isn't exclusive to fiat only.
How are you supposed to launder FIAT money if you cannot withdraw FIAT? It's cryptocurrency only exchanges we are talking about here. I never said everyone needs to buy Bitcoin, I said Bitcoin needs to have and keep it's large userbase....
You said "masses" - I interpreted that as a lot more users of Bitcoin than today. Bitcoin isn't exactly used by a lot of people yet the value is currently 233$. Whats the problem here? Real Bitcoin businesses that respect personal freedom and privacy can coexist with companies that comply with regulations. |
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dothebeats
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May 20, 2015, 11:37:16 PM |
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Also, aren't you aware that bitcoin can be a medium for money laundering because it has value? Money laundering isn't exclusive to fiat only.
How are you supposed to launder FIAT money if you cannot withdraw FIAT? It's cryptocurrency only exchanges we are talking about here. Accept it or not, cryptocurrency exchanges are still businesses tied with certain regulations because first and foremost, cryptocurrencies do have value, so that means it could be used as a medium of illegal activities. Also, you can do money laundering without even holding fiat in physical form; online bank account transfers could do that for you, but it will soon be converted to fiat because it is your goal in the first place. Same with cryptocurrencies. You cannot tell the government that "This is strictly a cryptocurency-only exchange." because you will need to convert to fiat for maintenance costs and what not. The main point is, just because it is crypto-only doesn't mean it should not be regulated and watched by the government. Business is business. Even if your business only involves salt and never touched any fiat, you will still be subjected to regulations because you are bound to abide by the regulations imposed by the government mainly because you are under their authority and jurisdiction. |
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celestio
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May 20, 2015, 11:37:52 PM |
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You said it, it should be perfectly legal to operate a crypto exchange, and if it is legal, then you are subject to submit to the regulations because you are making money out of it, just in the form of cryptocurrencies. A business should submit to these legal rules to continue operating.
They were obviously paying their taxes or otherwise they would have been shut down a long time ago. So they where complying with regulations just that the Goverment changed the rules all of a sudden. So the solution would be to move to a country where they don't have as much regulation. Also, aren't you aware that bitcoin can be a medium for money laundering because it has value? Money laundering isn't exclusive to fiat only.
How are you supposed to launder FIAT money if you cannot withdraw FIAT? It's cryptocurrency only exchanges we are talking about here. I never said everyone needs to buy Bitcoin, I said Bitcoin needs to have and keep it's large userbase....
You said "masses" - I interpreted that as a lot more users of Bitcoin than today. Bitcoin isn't exactly used by a lot of people yet the value is currently 233$. Whats the problem here? Real Bitcoin businesses that respect personal freedom and privacy can coexist with companies that comply with regulations. Bitcoins, Moneroj, etc have value in Fiat, therefore even a cryptocurrency only exchange would not be exempt from regulation as money laundering would be possible with things that have worth. The only way it would be exempt from such regulation, is if the cryptocurrencies on there were worthless. Cryptocurrencies are basically commodities atm... |
"The nature of Bitcoin is such that once version 0.1 was released, the core design was set in stone for the rest of its lifetime" - Satoshi Nakamoto, June 17, 2010
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nutildah
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May 20, 2015, 11:42:09 PM |
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I dunno. The only decent argument for regulation is to stop the never-ending series of thefts that are constantly dragging the price down. I'm willing to bet most BTC thieves sell at a below-market rate, because they are either in a hurry to sell it or the people buying it from them know it is stolen. Here in the U.S. we could simply apply pre-existing laws regarding property theft and not have to introduce additional regulation. Because if you do have to introduce new rules, guess who is going to be writing those rules? Yep, you guessed it. The people who stand to benefit the most are going to be writing them -- the method by which ALL public policy is now set in America. The idea that public opinion has any effect on the setting of public policy has been scientifically disproven. http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746Bitcoin regulation will not be written with the average user in mind. It will be written with the average rich master-of-the-financial-universe fuckhead in mind. Has everyone forgotten about the BitLicense fiasco already? https://fortune.com/2015/04/28/bitcoin-businesses-fear-regulation-bitlicense/ |
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nvaler
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Activity: 68
Merit: 10
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May 21, 2015, 12:39:58 AM |
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i wonder if u could put any names? anyone here did that? I have not done mine yet...
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ivanovasmd
Newbie
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Activity: 43
Merit: 0
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May 21, 2015, 12:41:43 AM |
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I have already withdrawn all my coins in my poloniex, I really liked them, but I don't want nobody to force me to give them my data unless is necessary, and I want it. They will lose many clients
bad move by poloniex.. indeed they will lose a lot of customers, well time to move to other exchange website then.(bittrex is good) I think Bittrex is US based and I suspect the real reason for Poloniex's actions is the fact it is US based and worried about trouble from the government. Bittrex might eventually get worried enough to go down the same route, or be forced to. My thoughts on Poloniex's move is that they were forced to. I can't see any good reason for them to decide to do this on their own, and implement in 48 hours at that. If it was their decision, I would think they would give a bit more notice that that. Agreed, I was shocked by how little notice we were given. Any US based exchange might be forced to do the same. If you give a fake name they might suddenly be forced to demand ID documents to withdraw your coins. I remember a few people here who were caught in that trap when Bitstamp started demanding ID proof. How can they even know if you used a fake name? Fuck my life, im away from exchanges and forums for 2 days and this happens... I have some BTC there (less than $2000)... will I have any problems inputing a fake name and country? If I put fake country, they could check the IP doesnt mach the country... but with your name, how are they going to know if its fake or not? Please tell me how to get my damn BTC out of that shithole. Fuck them. |
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BayAreaCoins
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Activity: 3920
Merit: 1242
Owner at AltQuick.com & FreeBitcoins.com
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May 21, 2015, 12:56:08 AM |
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I have already withdrawn all my coins in my poloniex, I really liked them, but I don't want nobody to force me to give them my data unless is necessary, and I want it. They will lose many clients
bad move by poloniex.. indeed they will lose a lot of customers, well time to move to other exchange website then.(bittrex is good) I think Bittrex is US based and I suspect the real reason for Poloniex's actions is the fact it is US based and worried about trouble from the government. Bittrex might eventually get worried enough to go down the same route, or be forced to. My thoughts on Poloniex's move is that they were forced to. I can't see any good reason for them to decide to do this on their own, and implement in 48 hours at that. If it was their decision, I would think they would give a bit more notice that that. Agreed, I was shocked by how little notice we were given. Any US based exchange might be forced to do the same. If you give a fake name they might suddenly be forced to demand ID documents to withdraw your coins. I remember a few people here who were caught in that trap when Bitstamp started demanding ID proof. How can they even know if you used a fake name? Fuck my life, im away from exchanges and forums for 2 days and this happens... I have some BTC there (less than $2000)... will I have any problems inputing a fake name and country? If I put fake country, they could check the IP doesnt mach the country... but with your name, how are they going to know if its fake or not? Please tell me how to get my damn BTC out of that shithole. Fuck them. I'll give you a name and country for $10  |
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nutildah
Legendary
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Activity: 2982
Merit: 7978
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May 21, 2015, 01:04:44 AM |
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Seriously guys,
If everybody puts "Fuck You" as their name and their country as "Afghanistan," I think they will get the point. What are they gonna do, prosecute their entire userbase?
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ivanovasmd
Newbie
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Activity: 43
Merit: 0
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May 21, 2015, 01:16:15 AM |
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Has anyone actually tried to withdraw with a fake name and country with success?
Please answer.
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MakingMoneyHoney
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May 21, 2015, 01:18:03 AM |
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Seriously guys,
If everybody puts "Fuck You" as their name and their country as "Afghanistan," I think they will get the point. What are they gonna do, prosecute their entire userbase?
They don't need to prosecute. They just need to hold your funds til you show them documents proving your name is "Fuck You" and some documents that prove you live in Afghanistan, otherwise you can't have your money. |
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nutildah
Legendary
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Activity: 2982
Merit: 7978
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May 21, 2015, 01:38:09 AM |
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They don't need to prosecute.
They just need to hold your funds til you show them documents proving your name is "Fuck You" and some documents that prove you live in Afghanistan, otherwise you can't have your money.
That's not what happened in my instance. Once I heard the news, I immediately withdrew everything. They did not require identification of my.... identification. This was 3 days ago. Has anyone actually tried to withdraw with a fake name and country with success?
Please answer.
Yep! |
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Zer0Sum
Legendary
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Activity: 1588
Merit: 1000
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May 21, 2015, 01:56:26 AM |
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they will ask for just name and country or we will need to submit documents to verify those details
They're just asking for the name and country for now. The question is... in the future, if you used incorrect information, will you be able to collect your coins when you withdraw without proving you're who you said you were or will you lose your coins altogether if they require that proof (that you can't give) in the future. This is just the 1st step towards 100% full verification like all US broker-dealers. The IRS has already made it clear that there is no distinction between fiat-crypto and crypto-crypto tx... Virtual currency is considered "property"... and is in no way exempt from regulation. Just voluntarily asking for info is not "verification"... so it's a total con on Polo's part... Within months 100% of all US based accounts will require Govt ID... just like Canada. Also, verification is not so Polo can "protect you" from bad guys... The purpose is to send 100% of your trading data to the IRS where it will be stockpiled and processed... *** And eventually it will be cross-checked against your tax returns (when systems are updated) ***. Here's why it's so f*cking dangerous to have dodgy, fly-by-night exchanges reporting on your activities: Polo may be long out of business in 2019 when you get a letter from the IRS... The letter is always IN THE FORM OF A TAX BILL... That you will OWE based on alledged trading on a long defunct exchange... It may all be inaccurate and incomplete, but you will have *** no way of disproving it ***. If you are dumb enough to be "verified" by crypto exchanges... make sure you keep very careful records. |
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MakingMoneyHoney
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May 21, 2015, 02:01:35 AM |
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They don't need to prosecute.
They just need to hold your funds til you show them documents proving your name is "Fuck You" and some documents that prove you live in Afghanistan, otherwise you can't have your money.
That's not what happened in my instance. Once I heard the news, I immediately withdrew everything. They did not require identification of my.... identification. This was 3 days ago. That's because the rule went into effect today (it wasn't in effect 3 days ago). Also, for now, it has to be a large sum of money per day. But as you saw, they changed their rules about requiring verification in 48 hours of announcing it. They can easily change their rules in the future, to requiring everyone to provide ID. |
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thevictimofuktyranny
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Merit: 1004
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May 21, 2015, 02:08:18 AM |
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what kind of verification they need and why they too verify our profile when they are only dealing with altcoin coins? their verification method is kinda joke  i entered fake data into first step and get verified.   why did you black it out if it was fake data? Yeah, I couldn't put my UK telephone number in  It does like UK telephone numbers  So, I had to google a random usa telephone number to complete the form |
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tokeweed
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Life, Love and Laughter...
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May 21, 2015, 02:32:59 AM |
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what kind of verification they need and why they too verify our profile when they are only dealing with altcoin coins? their verification method is kinda joke i entered fake data into first step and get verified. why did you black it out if it was fake data? Because he put his wife's name.  |
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ranlo
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May 21, 2015, 06:05:06 AM |
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what kind of verification they need and why they too verify our profile when they are only dealing with altcoin coins? their verification method is kinda joke i entered fake data into first step and get verified. why did you black it out if it was fake data? Yeah, I couldn't put my UK telephone number in It does like UK telephone numbers So, I had to google a random usa telephone number to complete the form Works great... until they require phone verification and you aren't there to answer the call. Those of you planning to use the service, I would NOT supply fake information. It will likely end up with your funds frozen when they ask for verification and you can't verify your fake information. |
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NorrisK
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1007
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May 21, 2015, 06:18:10 AM |
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1) When they say decentralized, they mean decentralized at the protocol level and in concept. When it comes to actual implementation though, it is not and cannot be fully "decentralized". Mining pools, etc
2) Having an exchange adhere to regulation has absolutely nothing to do with the decentralization of a cryptocurrency, exchanges are 3rd party.
3) Complying with some laws/regulation is the only, absolute only way that a cryptocurrency can hope of achieving any meaningful acceptance by the masses.
I really don't care if Bitcoin is accepted by the masses or not. I value personal freedom and privacy. And can't the "masses" use a exchange based in a country where they don't have KYC laws? Lucky for you buying bitcoins is almost always possible without any form of ID check. The only problem is giving your bank account number at the time of purchase (maybe use prepaid credit cards?) Buying your stuff or changing to fiat will be more difficult for you then. Blackmarkets or personal traders maybe? |
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