Will 21 Inc chips bring in faster hash rate than existing ASICs ?

[SpanishSoldier]

Is a new arms race coming?

Also when they talk about embedded mining, do they mean mobile or what?

Yes... ofcourse. It is going to be a paradigm shift in the mining world. So far, Intel has not joined their hand. If  Intel starts competing them, they'll be in trouble too.

By embedded mining, they mean embedding their mining equipment in the Internet of Things.

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[Ingatqhvq]

their chip may can save more energy, but the hash rate may not can improve too much, and they plan may failed eventually.
The hash rate always increase and it make they chip out of date.

[crazyivan]

But this opens a sea of possibilities.

I need a phone.

The phone costs $XXX.

I get the phone for free from the company cause I let them install the chip and mine BTC for them.


I need a toaster as well.....

[neoneros]

Only drawback would be, the 'free' is not free, you will notice it when the energy bill is way up, then your toaster and phone aren't so free anymore.

My phone's battery can hardly last a day, let alone if it is mining when idle, it will need a chord 24/7. You would have  a free but not so mobile phone

And not your toaster, but everything plugged into your sockets is now eating more power because of these mining chips.

[SpanishSoldier]

Only drawback would be, the 'free' is not free, you will notice it when the energy bill is way up, then your toaster and phone aren't so free anymore.

My phone's battery can hardly last a day, let alone if it is mining when idle, it will need a chord 24/7. You would have  a free but not so mobile phone

And not your toaster, but everything plugged into your sockets is now eating more power because of these mining chips.

Government personnel of many countries enjoy free electricity. They'll just jump on to get hold of those free equipments. Use of bitcoin will increase with more adoption and so the price will. So, both government people and bitcoiners will be at profit. Ironically, only the public, who is neither in Government, nor trust bitcoin will suffer. Becuase the bill government people will raise will be distributed among public as tax.

[thebenjamincode]

well i think it will give a faster hash rate because they won't be making a new one if it will be slower than the old ones right?

[Amph]

I don't get it, why are people thinking this is a positive thing? This company seems to me to be the biggest and realest threat we have had to Bitcoin yet. This company is going to work with the major players on making an extremely hard to compete with chip and essentially be able to take over the network by giving out damn toasters. They have the most realistic chance of being able to have control of 51% of the network. I am not psyched for this at all unless we are able to program the software to mine on any pool we like, other than that it would be bad.

how they can perform a 51% if their intent is to make casual mining possible(even if would be useless in this case, because of the ridiculous earning), they don't control the miners i suppose, they just give you the thing with the chips, so you are the owner, and the distribution should be vastly better than what we have right now

[Kyraishi]

I don't get it, why are people thinking this is a positive thing? This company seems to me to be the biggest and realest threat we have had to Bitcoin yet. This company is going to work with the major players on making an extremely hard to compete with chip and essentially be able to take over the network by giving out damn toasters. They have the most realistic chance of being able to have control of 51% of the network. I am not psyched for this at all unless we are able to program the software to mine on any pool we like, other than that it would be bad.

how they can perform a 51% if their intent is to make casual mining possible(even if would be useless in this case, because of the ridiculous earning), they don't contorl the miners i suppose, they just give you the thing with the chips, so you are the owner, and the distribution should be vastly better than what we have right now

I am pretty sure that they will be mining at their own pool.
I do not think that they will give you discounted appliances and the option to mine for yourself.

[Beefcake]

I don't get it, why are people thinking this is a positive thing? This company seems to me to be the biggest and realest threat we have had to Bitcoin yet. This company is going to work with the major players on making an extremely hard to compete with chip and essentially be able to take over the network by giving out damn toasters. They have the most realistic chance of being able to have control of 51% of the network. I am not psyched for this at all unless we are able to program the software to mine on any pool we like, other than that it would be bad.

I didn't think of that.  If every home in america was filled with the appliances even at low hash rates it would make a serious mining pool.  I think the main thing preventing this is that it would take a really long time to make that much stuff with chips in it, and in the mean time bitmain and friends will have advanced their products significantly.

[SpanishSoldier]

I don't get it, why are people thinking this is a positive thing? This company seems to me to be the biggest and realest threat we have had to Bitcoin yet. This company is going to work with the major players on making an extremely hard to compete with chip and essentially be able to take over the network by giving out damn toasters. They have the most realistic chance of being able to have control of 51% of the network. I am not psyched for this at all unless we are able to program the software to mine on any pool we like, other than that it would be bad.

I didn't think of that.  If every home in america was filled with the appliances even at low hash rates it would make a serious mining pool.  I think the main thing preventing this is that it would take a really long time to make that much stuff with chips in it, and in the mean time bitmain and friends will have advanced their products significantly.

The issue is the company 21 is working with intel and other top tier chip manufacturers, Bitmain isn't going to be able to compete at all, the best they could do is reverse engineer their chips possibly.

Where did u get the info that 21 is working with Intel ? AFAIK, Intel has not yet joined the mining competition. Once they do, the landscape will change.

[newIndia]

I don't get it, why are people thinking this is a positive thing? This company seems to me to be the biggest and realest threat we have had to Bitcoin yet. This company is going to work with the major players on making an extremely hard to compete with chip and essentially be able to take over the network by giving out damn toasters. They have the most realistic chance of being able to have control of 51% of the network. I am not psyched for this at all unless we are able to program the software to mine on any pool we like, other than that it would be bad.

how they can perform a 51% if their intent is to make casual mining possible(even if would be useless in this case, because of the ridiculous earning), they don't contorl the miners i suppose, they just give you the thing with the chips, so you are the owner, and the distribution should be vastly better than what we have right now

I am pretty sure that they will be mining at their own pool.
I do not think that they will give you discounted appliances and the option to mine for yourself.

Probably, initially they'll start like that for maximized profit. But, with time there will be competitors and because of natural laws of economics, they'll be forced to give more power to users. When ASIC came, we thought the first ASIC manufacturer will take over the market. It did not happen. It wont happen for this case either.

[Denker]

Where did u get the info that 21 is working with Intel ? AFAIK, Intel has not yet joined the mining competition. Once they do, the landscape will change.

A coindesk article mentioned about 21inc having ties to Intel.

Comcast was not the only major company named in the documents.

For example, 21 indicated it had been processing bitcoin transactions with what it called the "only chip" built at computing giant Intel’s foundry, touting close relationship with US computing giant Intel.

Intel factories, the documents suggested, were responsible for at least two generations of 21 bitcoin mining chips, a 0.57 w/GH 22nm FinFET chip (codenamed CyrusOne) and a 0.22 w/GH 22nm chip (codenamed Brownfield).

Though Intel has so far kept its relationship with 21 quiet, the bitcoin startup took the opposite approach in its company overview, which included a screenshot of an email allegedly from Intel CEO Brian Krzanich. Dated 5th September, the email finds Krzanich informing Pauker and investor Marc Andreessen of his opinion on a proposal to distribute bitcoin mining chips in consumer electronic devices.

Krzanich indicated he would be instructing Intel VP and GM Doug L Davis to evaluate the potential addition of mining chips to Intel products, including desktop PCs, writing: "I am copying Doug on this note to make an introduction … but trust me I will stay 100% engaged in this and be the godfather of it at Intel."

Intel’s apparent vote of confidence in the company was detailed in another entry.

"We are taking your suggestion very seriously and if Intel was to ubiquitously apply mining to the majority of our chips, it is a significant event and will impact the landscape," general manager of the New Business Group at Intel Corporation Jerry R Bautista remarked in an email with Pauker.

Both 21 and Andreesseen Horowitz declined to comment on the nature of any talks with Intel. Intel did not offer a response when contacted.

http://www.coindesk.com/21-intel-bitcoin-mining-strategy/

[alh]

I think the risk of 51% attack is wildly overblown these days. Given that the current Network Hash rate is say 300PH, you can't just add 30PH (a stunning feat by itself) a week and get anywhere. After 2 weeks (actually less), the difficulty ratchets up, and boom your next 30PH doesn't get you as far. At that point, you are just chasing the difficulty increases every two weeks.

I think the only way to mount an effective 51% attack is quietly build, but don't actually mine, your 300+ PH mining data centers where ever. Once everything is ready, your actually launch the attack after the next difficulty adjustment. And hope and pray you achieve your objective in 7-10 days. You won't have 14 days if you massively increase the hash rate, because those 2016 blocks will fly by quickly.

Assuming you can get to 51% what do you do then? Bitcoin still requires people to trust it in order to accept it. If it appears to be compromised in some way, those "Bitcoin Accepted Here" stickers will disappear right quick. My personal feeling is that a 51% attack will crash Bitcoin, and render it unusable.

Yes, I would be sad that my Bitcoin expenditures were wasted.

[Amph]

I think the risk of 51% attack is wildly overblown these days. Given that the current Network Hash rate is say 300PH, you can't just add 30PH (a stunning feat by itself) a week and get anywhere. After 2 weeks (actually less), the difficulty ratchets up, and boom your next 30PH doesn't get you as far. At that point, you are just chasing the difficulty increases every two weeks.

I think the only way to mount an effective 51% attack is quietly build, but don't actually mine, your 300+ PH mining data centers where ever. Once everything is ready, your actually launch the attack after the next difficulty adjustment. And hope and pray you achieve your objective in 7-10 days. You won't have 14 days if you massively increase the hash rate, because those 2016 blocks will fly by quickly.

Assuming you can get to 51% what do you do then? Bitcoin still requires people to trust it in order to accept it. If it appears to be compromised in some way, those "Bitcoin Accepted Here" stickers will disappear right quick. My personal feeling is that a 51% attack will crash Bitcoin, and render it unusable.

Yes, I would be sad that my Bitcoin expenditures were wasted.

they will be able to add much more than 30PH, they can actually do a 100% attack, think about, it if even 1 house is running 50 giga multiply this for even a mere 1M house and you have already 50peta, then you just need x10 that to surpass the whole network, not something that difficult to achieve, if you operate on a massive large scale like the entire worl

[alh]

I think the risk of 51% attack is wildly overblown these days. Given that the current Network Hash rate is say 300PH, you can't just add 30PH (a stunning feat by itself) a week and get anywhere. After 2 weeks (actually less), the difficulty ratchets up, and boom your next 30PH doesn't get you as far. At that point, you are just chasing the difficulty increases every two weeks.

I think the only way to mount an effective 51% attack is quietly build, but don't actually mine, your 300+ PH mining data centers where ever. Once everything is ready, your actually launch the attack after the next difficulty adjustment. And hope and pray you achieve your objective in 7-10 days. You won't have 14 days if you massively increase the hash rate, because those 2016 blocks will fly by quickly.

Assuming you can get to 51% what do you do then? Bitcoin still requires people to trust it in order to accept it. If it appears to be compromised in some way, those "Bitcoin Accepted Here" stickers will disappear right quick. My personal feeling is that a 51% attack will crash Bitcoin, and render it unusable.

Yes, I would be sad that my Bitcoin expenditures were wasted.

they will be able to add much more than 30PH, they can actually do a 100% attack, think about, it if even 1 house is running 50 giga multiply this for even a mere 1M house and you have already 50peta, then you just need x10 that to surpass the whole network, not something that difficult to achieve, if you operate on a massive large scale like the entire worl

How long will it take to distribute and get those 1M miners working? 2 months? Six months? A year? Unless they can actually co-ordinate the start of that massive number of "mini miners" then they dribble in over time and their ability to get to 51% is blunted by difficulty increases and other miner sales. Of course maybe they can convince the other mining farms to just turn off their equipment and let 21Inc "run the table".

I am also curious about the actual impact of a 51% attack. Does it persist forever? Do we end up with more than the 21M Bitcoins at the end? What actually happens under that scenario? I have simplistic view that it allows somebody  to produce "counterfeit Bitcoins". What's the practical impact on the Bitcoin economy? Does the whole block chain collapse, or does it become un-trustworthy in some way?

[notlist3d]

I think the risk of 51% attack is wildly overblown these days. Given that the current Network Hash rate is say 300PH, you can't just add 30PH (a stunning feat by itself) a week and get anywhere. After 2 weeks (actually less), the difficulty ratchets up, and boom your next 30PH doesn't get you as far. At that point, you are just chasing the difficulty increases every two weeks.

I think the only way to mount an effective 51% attack is quietly build, but don't actually mine, your 300+ PH mining data centers where ever. Once everything is ready, your actually launch the attack after the next difficulty adjustment. And hope and pray you achieve your objective in 7-10 days. You won't have 14 days if you massively increase the hash rate, because those 2016 blocks will fly by quickly.

Assuming you can get to 51% what do you do then? Bitcoin still requires people to trust it in order to accept it. If it appears to be compromised in some way, those "Bitcoin Accepted Here" stickers will disappear right quick. My personal feeling is that a 51% attack will crash Bitcoin, and render it unusable.

Yes, I would be sad that my Bitcoin expenditures were wasted.

they will be able to add much more than 30PH, they can actually do a 100% attack, think about, it if even 1 house is running 50 giga multiply this for even a mere 1M house and you have already 50peta, then you just need x10 that to surpass the whole network, not something that difficult to achieve, if you operate on a massive large scale like the entire worl

How long will it take to distribute and get those 1M miners working? 2 months? Six months? A year? Unless they can actually co-ordinate the start of that massive number of "mini miners" then they dribble in over time and their ability to get to 51% is blunted by difficulty increases and other miner sales. Of course maybe they can convince the other mining farms to just turn off their equipment and let 21Inc "run the table".

I am also curious about the actual impact of a 51% attack. Does it persist forever? Do we end up with more than the 21M Bitcoins at the end? What actually happens under that scenario? I have simplistic view that it allows somebody  to produce "counterfeit Bitcoins". What's the practical impact on the Bitcoin economy? Does the whole block chain collapse, or does it become un-trustworthy in some way?

Most likely by the time they are distributed they will be a generation behind.  I honestly cannot believe they made so much money off investors.  It truly is crazy how much they raised for an idea.

And bitfury has a light bulb already.    Not much is known about it but I would think with the millions 21 INC. would be making some prototypes to show off.  I want to see asics in every day items for the fun of it.   I'm keep hoping I will see some neat item but so far light bulb is most unique miner in a while and not even from them.

I think 51 percent attack is behind us I don't see it happening again.  Just a lot of hash out there and it's pretty well spread between big pools.  No one pool is close to 50 percent like Ghash was for a little while. 

[alh]

The more cynical view of 21Inc is that this "miner in every appliance" is strictly a dog and pony show for investors, and the real plan is to make large scale efficient miners and either sell those, or mine for themselves. I have to believe it will be a real hassle to deal with a variety of different gadget makes and try and fit some of their technology into it. That's a lot of work. And in many cases the money won't come up front, it might even cost something by 21Inc to "encourage" somebody to include their stuff, kinda like the "bloatware" that's present on most Dell computers these days.

It's got to be simpler to just build a kick-ass miner and then decide what to do with it (sell or self-mine). Who want to try and deal with GE or Comcast, or whoever to wedge your $5 part into their design and not pay to much to get it in. It would look better to sell $1000 efficient miners, wouldn't it?

Just my fairly cynical view of 21Inc's "everything is a miner" plan, regard less of how unrelated.