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Author Topic: Trust list reorganizing  (Read 2604 times)
Tomatocage
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May 31, 2015, 06:16:10 PM
 #1

Hey guys, I wasn't sure if this really merits it's own thread, but since this might affect a few people I guess I'll just put it here. After further consideration over the past few days, including laying in bed at 4am thinking about this shit, I've decided to leverage my Tomatocage1 account as Trust system platform for members who might not quite be an ideal fit for Tier 1. As a result, some people who were in Tier 1 have been deprecated to Tier 2. Some people from Tier 1 have been trimmed all together, though this is simply because they're already in the DefaultTrust group already, so it's not really necessary to list them twice. Gotta keep my garden minty, so to speak. Anyway, here's a breakdown of the reshuffle:

Code:
==== Tier 1 ====
BCB
Blazedout419
Blazr
DefaultTrust
EPiSKiNG (re-added, must have accidentally removed him previously)
Gleb Gamow
Graet
grue
jwzguy
Kluge
KWH
LoweryCBS
Michail1
Mousepotato
piotr_n
Powell
smoothie
Stunna
theymos
tysat
wallet.dat
Tomatocage1 (only here for cascading to Tier 2)

==== Tier 2 ====
Vod (deprecated, probationary)
Quickseller (deprecated, probationary)
dogie (deprecated, probationary)
DiamondCardz (new add, probationary)
haploid23 (inactive)
John (John K.) (inactive)
the joint (deprecated, lacks sufficient Trust system history)
Gavin Andresen (deprecated, lacks sufficient Trust system history)

==== Trimmed ====
BadBear (already in DefaultTrust)
Maged (already in DefaultTrust)
OgNasty (already in DefaultTrust)

==== Explicitly Excluded ====
~gate11
~El Cabron
~shdvb

I really hope that I'm understanding how the Trust system currently works and this isn't going to end up making me look dumb (well, at least not any more so than usual).

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May 31, 2015, 06:25:23 PM
 #2

Not sure this worked as intended.

Depth 0 is DefaultTrust
Depth 1 is Tomatocage
Depth 2 is Tomatocage1
So any trust ratings Tomatocage1 does doesn't really do anything.

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May 31, 2015, 06:29:45 PM
 #3

Does this mean that you took KoS up on his offer?

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May 31, 2015, 06:32:08 PM
 #4

Not sure this worked as intended.

Depth 0 is DefaultTrust
Depth 1 is Tomatocage
Depth 2 is Tomatocage1
So any trust ratings Tomatocage1 does doesn't really do anything.

If I understand the purpose of this thread, he basically have updated his trust list (removed & addedd some users). This is his actual (correct me if I am wrong):

Tomatocage
    theymos
    grue
    EPiSKiNG
    Kluge
    piotr_n
    Mousepotato
    jwzguy
    tysat
    Graet
    smoothie
    Michail1
    wallet.dat
    Blazr
    BCB
    LoweryCBS
    KWH
    Stunna
    DefaultTrust
    Blazedout419
    Powell
    Gleb Gamow
    Tomatocage1


but yes , you're correct with your thought (he is also in the default trust depth 2, but this is obvious).
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May 31, 2015, 06:34:00 PM
 #5

Does this mean that you took KoS up on his offer?

I wasn't even aware of that offer, but no it wasn't because of that. And technically I haven't removed you.

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May 31, 2015, 06:34:08 PM
 #6

Not sure this worked as intended.

Depth 0 is DefaultTrust
Depth 1 is Tomatocage
Depth 2 is Tomatocage1
So any trust ratings Tomatocage1 does doesn't really do anything.

If I understand the purpose of this thread, he basically have updated his trust list (removed & addedd some users). This is his actual (correct me if I am wrong):

Yes that's correct. What I was saying though is there is in effect no cascade. Being trusted by a tier 2 is the same as not being trusted, it makes no difference within default DefaultTrust. The error has come because TC thought he was Depth 0 but is in fact Depth 1. All users will show themselves as Depth 0 in their own lists as its assumed a user trusts themselves, but globally will be Depth 1 or lower. Only "DefaultTrust" is Depth 0.

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May 31, 2015, 06:38:42 PM
 #7

Not sure this worked as intended.

Depth 0 is DefaultTrust
Depth 1 is Tomatocage
Depth 2 is Tomatocage1
So any trust ratings Tomatocage1 does doesn't really do anything.

I had a feeling I wasn't understanding it right. I have no plans of using Tomatocage1 for anything other than adding people to my Trust list at Depth 2. Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but as I think it works, Depth 2 ratings hit a little softer than Depth 1. You'd think I would have a clearer understanding how the Trust system works, being in the actual DefaultTrust group and all Embarrassed

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May 31, 2015, 06:39:25 PM
 #8

If you trust anyone from tomatocage1 means he/she will be on depth 3. because you are on depth 1, tomatocage1 in depth2 and trusting by tomatocage1 means he/she will be depth 3.


That means trusting by tomatocage1 won't be on default trust.
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May 31, 2015, 06:42:32 PM
 #9

If you trust anyone from tomatocage1 means he/she will be on depth 3. because you are on depth 1, tomatocage1 in depth2 and trusting by tomatocage1 means he/she will be depth 3.


That means trusting by tomatocage1 won't be on default trust.

Exactly, yeah. As a Depth1 user you don't have any ability to cascade or have tiered trust levels.

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May 31, 2015, 06:43:33 PM
 #10

Does this mean that you took KoS up on his offer?

I wasn't even aware of that offer, but no it wasn't because of that. And technically I haven't removed you.
That was kind of a joke, lol.

However the concern that I have about this is that my ratings will now only show up for people that explicitly have you in their trust list (or who explicitly have BadBear, theymos, and a few others in their trust list - this is due to I am on others' trust lists who are also are their trust lists). People who have the default settings will not see my ratings by default.

In the few days that I was off of BadBear's list (and before being added to your list), at least one person was scammed because they did not see a negative I left - they had purchased an account that had defaulted on a loan that I had left negative trust for. The loan was only for .05 BTC and in their own words still got a good deal on the account after repaying the loan to the lender so they were not upset about the situation, however the point does still remain.

Not sure this worked as intended.

Depth 0 is DefaultTrust
Depth 1 is Tomatocage
Depth 2 is Tomatocage1
So any trust ratings Tomatocage1 does doesn't really do anything.

I had a feeling I wasn't understanding it right. I have no plans of using Tomatocage1 for anything other than adding people to my Trust list at Depth 2. Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but as I think it works, Depth 2 ratings hit a little softer than Depth 1. You'd think I would have a clearer understanding how the Trust system works, being in the actual DefaultTrust group and all Embarrassed
A negative (or a positive) rating from Tomatocage will have the exact same impact by default as the same rating from KWH (assuming the exact same information is provided).

A rating from haploid23 will not show up period (if you were to ignore the fact that he is also on BadBear's trust list)

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May 31, 2015, 06:43:58 PM
 #11

Not sure this worked as intended.

Depth 0 is DefaultTrust
Depth 1 is Tomatocage
Depth 2 is Tomatocage1
So any trust ratings Tomatocage1 does doesn't really do anything.

If I understand the purpose of this thread, he basically have updated his trust list (removed & addedd some users). This is his actual (correct me if I am wrong):

Yes that's correct. What I was saying though is there is in effect no cascade. Being trusted by a tier 2 is the same as not being trusted, it makes no difference within default DefaultTrust. The error has come because TC thought he was Depth 0 but is in fact Depth 1. All users will show themselves as Depth 0 in their own lists as its assumed a user trusts themselves, but globally will be Depth 1 or lower. Only "DefaultTrust" is Depth 0.

Correct, DefaultTrust user is the base of the entrire trust system and simple (as you know) all the users that were added by theymos under the DefaultTrust's list is in the depth 1. Now if Tomatocage will add users with his alt (tomatocage1) those users will be added and see as trusted only if we put the level 3 of depth and trust the user DefaultTrust.
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May 31, 2015, 06:44:17 PM
 #12

as I think it works, Depth 2 ratings hit a little softer than Depth 1.

No, it makes no difference. The depth levels only matter because some people may trust other's (including DT's) ratings up to more or less depth. Once you trust someone's ratings, it doesn't matter how deep they are down from DT or from anyone else. You just trust their ratings, period.
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May 31, 2015, 06:56:09 PM
 #13

I think the whole trust system needs scrapping, the marketplace needs scrapping & people need to stop scamming, framing & being general **** to each other.
I've seen some real ****** stuff happening over the past week & it must make genuine people think what's the point trading/doing business with people here.

I don't trade here, I just buy coins on an exchange and hodl but I'd be really pissed off if, as I've seen this week, people start leaving negative trust for no reason.
The whole system needs scrapping or totally changing.

Maybe it needs to be like on ebay where you can only leave trust/feedback on somebodies profile if you actually enter a transaction with them, I don't agree with people able to leave trust on somebodies profile you haven't done any budiness with.  

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May 31, 2015, 06:56:43 PM
 #14

Does this mean that you took KoS up on his offer?

I wasn't even aware of that offer, but no it wasn't because of that. And technically I haven't removed you.
That was kind of a joke, lol.

However the concern that I have about this is that my ratings will now only show up for people that explicitly have you in their trust list (or who explicitly have BadBear, theymos, and a few others in their trust list - this is due to I am on others' trust lists who are also are their trust lists). People who have the default settings will not see my ratings by default.

In the few days that I was off of BadBear's list (and before being added to your list), at least one person was scammed because they did not see a negative I left - they had purchased an account that had defaulted on a loan that I had left negative trust for. The loan was only for .05 BTC and in their own words still got a good deal on the account after repaying the loan to the lender so they were not upset about the situation, however the point does still remain.

Not sure this worked as intended.

Depth 0 is DefaultTrust
Depth 1 is Tomatocage
Depth 2 is Tomatocage1
So any trust ratings Tomatocage1 does doesn't really do anything.

I had a feeling I wasn't understanding it right. I have no plans of using Tomatocage1 for anything other than adding people to my Trust list at Depth 2. Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but as I think it works, Depth 2 ratings hit a little softer than Depth 1. You'd think I would have a clearer understanding how the Trust system works, being in the actual DefaultTrust group and all Embarrassed
A negative (or a positive) rating from Tomatocage will have the exact same impact by default as the same rating from KWH (assuming the exact same information is provided).

A rating from haploid23 will not show up period (if you were to ignore the fact that he is also on BadBear's trust list)

If I understand Tomatocage, he is really on pressure because of your vague negative trusting. That is why may be he is trying to reorganising his trust list.

There is so much difference in Vod neg trust and what you give to other.

Vod normally give negative trust to newbie's who ask loan without collateral but in your case it's different that is why Badbear removed you from his trust.

Take example of tspacepilot, you necro post with your alt account about his 3 year old post. And then mark negative trust from QS account. It is really misuse of DT. Because That time even so many knew about that. And after that there were no complaint about in tspacepilot account but you did it for some revenge. I don't know what was the motive that you searched 3 year old post to marking red.

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May 31, 2015, 07:05:50 PM
 #15

Does this mean that you took KoS up on his offer?

I wasn't even aware of that offer, but no it wasn't because of that. And technically I haven't removed you.
That was kind of a joke, lol.

However the concern that I have about this is that my ratings will now only show up for people that explicitly have you in their trust list (or who explicitly have BadBear, theymos, and a few others in their trust list - this is due to I am on others' trust lists who are also are their trust lists). People who have the default settings will not see my ratings by default.

In the few days that I was off of BadBear's list (and before being added to your list), at least one person was scammed because they did not see a negative I left - they had purchased an account that had defaulted on a loan that I had left negative trust for. The loan was only for .05 BTC and in their own words still got a good deal on the account after repaying the loan to the lender so they were not upset about the situation, however the point does still remain.

Not sure this worked as intended.

Depth 0 is DefaultTrust
Depth 1 is Tomatocage
Depth 2 is Tomatocage1
So any trust ratings Tomatocage1 does doesn't really do anything.

I had a feeling I wasn't understanding it right. I have no plans of using Tomatocage1 for anything other than adding people to my Trust list at Depth 2. Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but as I think it works, Depth 2 ratings hit a little softer than Depth 1. You'd think I would have a clearer understanding how the Trust system works, being in the actual DefaultTrust group and all Embarrassed
A negative (or a positive) rating from Tomatocage will have the exact same impact by default as the same rating from KWH (assuming the exact same information is provided).

A rating from haploid23 will not show up period (if you were to ignore the fact that he is also on BadBear's trust list)

If I understand Tomatocage, he is really on pressure because of your vague negative trusting. That is why may be he is trying to reorganising his trust list.

There is so much difference in Vod neg trust and what you give to other.

Vod normally give negative trust to newbie's who ask loan without collateral but in your case it's different that is why Badbear removed you from his trust.

Take example of tspacepilot, you necro post with your alt account about his 3 year old post. And then mark negative trust from QS account. It is really misuse of DT. Because That time even so many knew about that. And after that there were no complaint about in tspacepilot account but you did it for some revenge. I don't know what was the motive that you searched 3 year old post to marking red.



Now QS will start to beg someone from the depth1 and ask to be re-added, so pathetic from you QS.
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May 31, 2015, 07:06:30 PM
 #16

Does this mean that you took KoS up on his offer?

I wasn't even aware of that offer, but no it wasn't because of that. And technically I haven't removed you.
That was kind of a joke, lol.

However the concern that I have about this is that my ratings will now only show up for people that explicitly have you in their trust list (or who explicitly have BadBear, theymos, and a few others in their trust list - this is due to I am on others' trust lists who are also are their trust lists). People who have the default settings will not see my ratings by default.

In the few days that I was off of BadBear's list (and before being added to your list), at least one person was scammed because they did not see a negative I left - they had purchased an account that had defaulted on a loan that I had left negative trust for. The loan was only for .05 BTC and in their own words still got a good deal on the account after repaying the loan to the lender so they were not upset about the situation, however the point does still remain.

Not sure this worked as intended.

Depth 0 is DefaultTrust
Depth 1 is Tomatocage
Depth 2 is Tomatocage1
So any trust ratings Tomatocage1 does doesn't really do anything.

I had a feeling I wasn't understanding it right. I have no plans of using Tomatocage1 for anything other than adding people to my Trust list at Depth 2. Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but as I think it works, Depth 2 ratings hit a little softer than Depth 1. You'd think I would have a clearer understanding how the Trust system works, being in the actual DefaultTrust group and all Embarrassed
A negative (or a positive) rating from Tomatocage will have the exact same impact by default as the same rating from KWH (assuming the exact same information is provided).

A rating from haploid23 will not show up period (if you were to ignore the fact that he is also on BadBear's trust list)

If I understand Tomatocage, he is really on pressure because of your vague negative trusting. That is why may be he is trying to reorganising his trust list.

There is so much difference in Vod neg trust and what you give to other.

Vod normally give negative trust to newbie's who ask loan without collateral but in your case it's different that is why Badbear removed you from his trust.

Take example of tspacepilot, you necro post with your alt account about his 3 year old post. And then mark negative trust from QS account. It is really misuse of DT. Because That time even so many knew about that. And after that there were no complaint about in tspacepilot account but you did it for some revenge. I don't know what was the motive that you searched 3 year old post to marking red.



You sound like a shill for tspacepilot. Tspacepilot deserves the trust he got, and Im not even sure ndnhc is not guilty, so rezerving my judgement.

Lol newbie saying this or I say shill of some account who don't want to disclose his main account.

Mostly people know me here. And all know I am trader here and mostly focus on trading.

Btw I just gave example of tspacepilot.
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May 31, 2015, 07:08:57 PM
 #17

Does this mean that you took KoS up on his offer?

I wasn't even aware of that offer, but no it wasn't because of that. And technically I haven't removed you.
That was kind of a joke, lol.

However the concern that I have about this is that my ratings will now only show up for people that explicitly have you in their trust list (or who explicitly have BadBear, theymos, and a few others in their trust list - this is due to I am on others' trust lists who are also are their trust lists). People who have the default settings will not see my ratings by default.

In the few days that I was off of BadBear's list (and before being added to your list), at least one person was scammed because they did not see a negative I left - they had purchased an account that had defaulted on a loan that I had left negative trust for. The loan was only for .05 BTC and in their own words still got a good deal on the account after repaying the loan to the lender so they were not upset about the situation, however the point does still remain.

Not sure this worked as intended.

Depth 0 is DefaultTrust
Depth 1 is Tomatocage
Depth 2 is Tomatocage1
So any trust ratings Tomatocage1 does doesn't really do anything.

I had a feeling I wasn't understanding it right. I have no plans of using Tomatocage1 for anything other than adding people to my Trust list at Depth 2. Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but as I think it works, Depth 2 ratings hit a little softer than Depth 1. You'd think I would have a clearer understanding how the Trust system works, being in the actual DefaultTrust group and all Embarrassed
A negative (or a positive) rating from Tomatocage will have the exact same impact by default as the same rating from KWH (assuming the exact same information is provided).

A rating from haploid23 will not show up period (if you were to ignore the fact that he is also on BadBear's trust list)

If I understand Tomatocage, he is really on pressure because of your vague negative trusting. That is why may be he is trying to reorganising his trust list.

There is so much difference in Vod neg trust and what you give to other.

Vod normally give negative trust to newbie's who ask loan without collateral but in your case it's different that is why Badbear removed you from his trust.

Take example of tspacepilot, you necro post with your alt account about his 3 year old post. And then mark negative trust from QS account. It is really misuse of DT. Because That time even so many knew about that. And after that there were no complaint about in tspacepilot account but you did it for some revenge. I don't know what was the motive that you searched 3 year old post to marking red.



Now QS will start to beg someone from the depth1 and ask to be re-added, so pathetic from you QS.

QS is good on scam busting but he need to understand the responsibility of default trust. If he has doubt of even 1% he must give neutral trust not Negative trust. That is why Theymos changed trust system to 3tier but mostly DT user don't use Neutral trust they just like to mark red account to show their power.
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May 31, 2015, 07:18:04 PM
 #18

Does this mean that you took KoS up on his offer?

I wasn't even aware of that offer, but no it wasn't because of that. And technically I haven't removed you.
That was kind of a joke, lol.

However the concern that I have about this is that my ratings will now only show up for people that explicitly have you in their trust list (or who explicitly have BadBear, theymos, and a few others in their trust list - this is due to I am on others' trust lists who are also are their trust lists). People who have the default settings will not see my ratings by default.

In the few days that I was off of BadBear's list (and before being added to your list), at least one person was scammed because they did not see a negative I left - they had purchased an account that had defaulted on a loan that I had left negative trust for. The loan was only for .05 BTC and in their own words still got a good deal on the account after repaying the loan to the lender so they were not upset about the situation, however the point does still remain.

Not sure this worked as intended.

Depth 0 is DefaultTrust
Depth 1 is Tomatocage
Depth 2 is Tomatocage1
So any trust ratings Tomatocage1 does doesn't really do anything.

I had a feeling I wasn't understanding it right. I have no plans of using Tomatocage1 for anything other than adding people to my Trust list at Depth 2. Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but as I think it works, Depth 2 ratings hit a little softer than Depth 1. You'd think I would have a clearer understanding how the Trust system works, being in the actual DefaultTrust group and all Embarrassed
A negative (or a positive) rating from Tomatocage will have the exact same impact by default as the same rating from KWH (assuming the exact same information is provided).

A rating from haploid23 will not show up period (if you were to ignore the fact that he is also on BadBear's trust list)

If I understand Tomatocage, he is really on pressure because of your vague negative trusting. That is why may be he is trying to reorganising his trust list.

There is so much difference in Vod neg trust and what you give to other.

Vod normally give negative trust to newbie's who ask loan without collateral but in your case it's different that is why Badbear removed you from his trust.

Take example of tspacepilot, you necro post with your alt account about his 3 year old post. And then mark negative trust from QS account. It is really misuse of DT. Because That time even so many knew about that. And after that there were no complaint about in tspacepilot account but you did it for some revenge. I don't know what was the motive that you searched 3 year old post to marking red.



Now QS will start to beg someone from the depth1 and ask to be re-added, so pathetic from you QS.

QS is good on scam busting but he need to understand the responsibility of default trust. If he has doubt of even 1% he must give neutral trust not Negative trust. That is why Theymos changed trust system to 3tier but mostly DT user don't use Neutral trust they just like to mark red account to show their power.

Yeah now he can continue his work of scam buster. nobody will stop him . good luck QS.


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May 31, 2015, 07:35:28 PM
 #19

...Lol newbie saying this or I say shill of some account who don't want to disclose his main account.

Mostly people know me here. And all know I am trader here and mostly focus on trading.

Btw I just gave example of tspacepilot.

Typical. Another thread slanderin Quickseller. And when uninvolved buystanders like myself come to his defence, were accused of god knows what without any proof. I see whats happening here, youre not fooling any one.

Lol I am not fooling anyone that is why I am posting with my main account. You are fooling other by making new account and posting.

Most probably you are alt of QuickSeller that is why you are doing this. So later you will sell this account. So it will serve both defending QS and making post so it will move to upward level.
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May 31, 2015, 07:36:42 PM
 #20

...Lol newbie saying this or I say shill of some account who don't want to disclose his main account.

Mostly people know me here. And all know I am trader here and mostly focus on trading.

Btw I just gave example of tspacepilot.

Typical. Another thread slanderin Quickseller. And when uninvolved buystanders like myself come to his defence, were accused of god knows what without any proof. I see whats happening here, youre not fooling any one.

Really interesting, why a newbie registered 19 May should defend Quckseller? This doesn't make any sense... but good to know.
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May 31, 2015, 07:41:08 PM
 #21

Or the newbie account could be someone who has something against QS. I mean, who would be stupid enough to defend themselves under an alt in such an obvious way? It's more likely that someone who hates QS is doing that. Banning that account would be more than appropriate here, either way.

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brush242 ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=199652 ) aka TheBitcoinimist aka Rush Reid aka Ken Hunlenton aka Steve Reid aka perfectlycromulentword aka Stephen Mark Reid says: "BFL is fucked" READ THE EARTH-SHATTERING COMMENTARY AT >>>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg9614841#msg9614841 <<<<
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#Free market


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May 31, 2015, 07:48:56 PM
 #22

...Lol newbie saying this or I say shill of some account who don't want to disclose his main account.

Mostly people know me here. And all know I am trader here and mostly focus on trading.

Btw I just gave example of tspacepilot.

Typical. Another thread slanderin Quickseller. And when uninvolved buystanders like myself come to his defence, were accused of god knows what without any proof. I see whats happening here, youre not fooling any one.

Lol I am not fooling anyone that is why I am posting with my main account. You are fooling other by making new account and posting.

Most probably you are alt of QuickSeller that is why you are doing this. So later you will sell this account. So it will serve both defending QS and making post so it will move to upward level.

Im not posting from my main account because first BadBear takesQuickseller of his list, Tomatocage adds him, and then right away has to go and take him off for no reason. Coincidence? Sure. I dont want to get pushed out of the way and sweapt aside like Quickseller, but I cant just stand by and watch him get slandered and railroaded while his fairweather friends like Redsn0w turn on him.

 Roll Eyes someone is tired? I have only explained (partially) how the trust system works ... nothing else, because I do not have anything against Quickseller. I think you can post from your main account, because if you are an honest person an  you've never abused the trust system then you will not be removed from some depth 1 users's list (I am sure of this thing).

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May 31, 2015, 08:05:51 PM
 #23

Hope that the members added in Tier1 leave accurate ratings and help to track scammers to protect the community. I feel that it's a responsibility of a DF member to use their feedback power wisely so that nobody tries to abuse the ratings. I don't know most of the members on Tier 1 but I hope OP does monitor them to see if their ratings are accurate or not.

Being on this DF list is merely an obsession and it shouldn't matter if one exists or not on the list as their ratings would matter for those who trust them in any case. Newbies anyways should be wise enough before making any deals without escrows and not blindly trust anyone considering their rank/trust.

BTW, shdvb seems like a trusted member as I have seen his thread in the Currency Exchange section and he has done a lot of trades. Why is he excluded?

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May 31, 2015, 08:07:11 PM
 #24

-snip-
QS is good on scam busting but he need to understand the responsibility of default trust. If he has doubt of even 1% he must give neutral trust not Negative trust. That is why Theymos changed trust system to 3tier but mostly DT user don't use Neutral trust they just like to mark red account to show their power.

Is this correct? Can anyone confirm this with a quote?

If thats the case, tomatocages tiering is indeed working.
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May 31, 2015, 08:08:39 PM
 #25

Hope that the members added in DF1

No one was added to DF1, its a mistake.

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May 31, 2015, 08:09:38 PM
 #26

-snip-
QS is good on scam busting but he need to understand the responsibility of default trust. If he has doubt of even 1% he must give neutral trust not Negative trust. That is why Theymos changed trust system to 3tier but mostly DT user don't use Neutral trust they just like to mark red account to show their power.

Is this correct? Can anyone confirm this with a quote?

If thats the case, tomatocages tiering is indeed working.

3 tier means, Positive, Neutral and Negative.

If anyone have doubt they can leave neutral trust and when they are sure they can leave negative trust.
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May 31, 2015, 08:11:41 PM
 #27

Not sure this worked as intended.

Depth 0 is DefaultTrust
Depth 1 is Tomatocage
Depth 2 is Tomatocage1
So any trust ratings Tomatocage1 does doesn't really do anything.

I had a feeling I wasn't understanding it right. I have no plans of using Tomatocage1 for anything other than adding people to my Trust list at Depth 2. Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but as I think it works, Depth 2 ratings hit a little softer than Depth 1. You'd think I would have a clearer understanding how the Trust system works, being in the actual DefaultTrust group and all Embarrassed
If you really want to use Tomatocage1 for trust only you'd have to get him on Depth 1 as well.
They're correct. Being on depth 3 has no affiliation with the default trust as well. If you put for instance Vod in Depth 3 his ratings will be invalidated.
You could try asking BadBear to add your second account there though.

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May 31, 2015, 08:16:05 PM
 #28

Hope that the members added in DF1

No one was added to DF1, its a mistake.

I meant the first tier of the OP (I guess it is the list bearing users who are added by the OP), Tier 1. I edited my post as well.

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May 31, 2015, 08:20:27 PM
 #29

Not sure this worked as intended.

Depth 0 is DefaultTrust
Depth 1 is Tomatocage
Depth 2 is Tomatocage1
So any trust ratings Tomatocage1 does doesn't really do anything.

I had a feeling I wasn't understanding it right. I have no plans of using Tomatocage1 for anything other than adding people to my Trust list at Depth 2. Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but as I think it works, Depth 2 ratings hit a little softer than Depth 1. You'd think I would have a clearer understanding how the Trust system works, being in the actual DefaultTrust group and all Embarrassed
If you really want to use Tomatocage1 for trust only you'd have to get him on Depth 1 as well.
They're correct. Being on depth 3 has no affiliation with the default trust as well. If you put for instance Vod in Depth 3 his ratings will be invalidated.
You could try asking BadBear to add your second account there though.

Then we'd be back where we started Tongue

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May 31, 2015, 08:30:03 PM
 #30

-snip-
QS is good on scam busting but he need to understand the responsibility of default trust. If he has doubt of even 1% he must give neutral trust not Negative trust. That is why Theymos changed trust system to 3tier but mostly DT user don't use Neutral trust they just like to mark red account to show their power.

Is this correct? Can anyone confirm this with a quote?

If thats the case, tomatocages tiering is indeed working.

3 tier means, Positive, Neutral and Negative.

If anyone have doubt they can leave neutral trust and when they are sure they can leave negative trust.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.
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May 31, 2015, 08:31:30 PM
 #31

Not sure this worked as intended.

Depth 0 is DefaultTrust
Depth 1 is Tomatocage
Depth 2 is Tomatocage1
So any trust ratings Tomatocage1 does doesn't really do anything.

I had a feeling I wasn't understanding it right. I have no plans of using Tomatocage1 for anything other than adding people to my Trust list at Depth 2. Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but as I think it works, Depth 2 ratings hit a little softer than Depth 1. You'd think I would have a clearer understanding how the Trust system works, being in the actual DefaultTrust group and all Embarrassed
If you really want to use Tomatocage1 for trust only you'd have to get him on Depth 1 as well.
They're correct. Being on depth 3 has no affiliation with the default trust as well. If you put for instance Vod in Depth 3 his ratings will be invalidated.
You could try asking BadBear to add your second account there though.

Then we'd be back where we started Tongue

Exactly , now he used tomatocage1 and added to his trust list those users:

Tomatocage1
    Gavin Andresen
    haploid23
    the joint
    Vod
    John (John K.)
    El Cabron
    DiamondCardz
    dogie
    DefaultTrust
    shdvb
    Quickseller
    gate11


They are still in the default trust list but visible only if someone will put the Trust depth : 3 (and trust DefaultTrust).
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May 31, 2015, 08:41:15 PM
 #32

Then we'd be back where we started Tongue
I'm pretty sure that a huge group of members (mostly scammers) would be satisfied if Vod, QS and you were left out of d.trust.  Cheesy

3 tier means, Positive, Neutral and Negative.

If anyone have doubt they can leave neutral trust and when they are sure they can leave negative trust.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.
What's this about, I'm confused? Theymos changes the trust list to 3 tiers?

so does anyone know haploid? and if what kos said about him was true?
Yes. He was busy even when he was active but he suddenly went dark.
What was said about him?

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May 31, 2015, 08:42:16 PM
 #33



so does anyone know haploid? and if what kos said about him was true?
Yes. He was busy even when he was active but he suddenly went dark.
What was said about him?

[/quote]so does anyone know haploid? and if what BitcoinDistributor  said about him was true?

said he died in a car crash
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May 31, 2015, 08:50:27 PM
 #34

Then we'd be back where we started Tongue
I'm pretty sure that a huge group of members (mostly scammers) would be satisfied if Vod, QS and you were left out of d.trust.  Cheesy

Well, 2 guys for me, of which neither understands the trust system and are actively abusing it themselves. Its a lot quieter now the guy with 10 accounts got banned.

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May 31, 2015, 09:00:13 PM
Last edit: May 31, 2015, 09:20:56 PM by redsn0w
 #35

...
What's this about, I'm confused? Theymos changes the trust list to 3 tiers?

No he added the neutral trust, it is not related with any list. The 3 tiers are negative, positive and neutral trust or feedback (that you can leave to any user).


PS: Or maybe I didn't understand your question.
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May 31, 2015, 09:22:45 PM
 #36

Well, 2 guys for me, of which neither understands the trust system and are actively abusing it themselves. Its a lot quieter now the guy with 10 accounts got banned.
Are you by any chance referring to QS and Vod or are you talking about others that you won't name?
I actually read the accusations against you just today. It was a fun story to read.  Smiley

No he added the neutral trust, it is not related with any list. The 3 tiers are negative, positive and neutral trust or feedback (that you can leave to any user).


PS: Or maybe I didn't understand your question.
I understand that, however I was asking if trust depth 3 has any influence now? I somehow misunderstood (?) it as if depth 3 had influence now (making everyone else depth 4).


Update: Since this is reorganizing I'm curious to why El Cabron is still part of the default trust list? I see him under DeaDTerra and tysat.

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May 31, 2015, 09:29:00 PM
 #37

Well, 2 guys for me, of which neither understands the trust system and are actively abusing it themselves. Its a lot quieter now the guy with 10 accounts got banned.
Are you by any chance referring to QS and Vod or are you talking about others that you won't name?
I actually read the accusations against you just today. It was a fun story to read.  Smiley

No he added the neutral trust, it is not related with any list. The 3 tiers are negative, positive and neutral trust or feedback (that you can leave to any user).


PS: Or maybe I didn't understand your question.
I understand that, however I was asking if trust depth 3 has any influence now? I somehow misunderstood (?) it as if depth 3 had influence now (making everyone else depth 4).

It has an influence only if you change your (visualization) trust depth from 2 to 3, if you stay or better choose 2 you will not be "affected" by those users in the level 3 of depth.
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May 31, 2015, 09:41:36 PM
 #38

Well, 2 guys for me, of which neither understands the trust system and are actively abusing it themselves. Its a lot quieter now the guy with 10 accounts got banned.
Are you by any chance referring to QS and Vod or are you talking about others that you won't name? I actually read the accusations against you just today. It was a fun story to read.  Smiley

Haha no, Pekatete (Phillip Katete) and Bicknellski (Darin Bicknell). They're the only ones who seem to be in love with me.

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May 31, 2015, 09:43:00 PM
 #39

If I understand Tomatocage, he is really on pressure because of your vague negative trusting. That is why may be he is trying to reorganising his trust list.
What negative ratings have I given that are vague/questionable? To date I have not seen any ratings that were shown to be unreasonable as of the time they were given with the information available at the time. When additional information has been revealed regarding any negatives that I have given, I have been more then willing to edit and/or remove my negative ratings when I have shown to be wrong.
Take example of tspacepilot, you necro post with your alt account about his 3 year old post. And then mark negative trust from QS account. It is really misuse of DT. Because That time even so many knew about that. And after that there were no complaint about in tspacepilot account but you did it for some revenge. I don't know what was the motive that you searched 3 year old post to marking red.
That guy is a scammer. Why don't you explain how he is not a scammer, and explain what exactly I was trying to get revenge for?

QS is good on scam busting but he need to understand the responsibility of default trust. If he has doubt of even 1% he must give neutral trust not Negative trust. That is why Theymos changed trust system to 3tier but mostly DT user don't use Neutral trust they just like to mark red account to show their power.
Incorrect
Quote
Negative - You were scammed or you strongly believe that this person is a scammer.
Even if you were to use the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard, then someone could be found guilty with a 1% doubt. The standard is "you strongly believe that this person is a scammer" and this standard has been met every time I had left someone a negative rating.

...Lol newbie saying this or I say shill of some account who don't want to disclose his main account.

Mostly people know me here. And all know I am trader here and mostly focus on trading.

Btw I just gave example of tspacepilot.

Typical. Another thread slanderin Quickseller. And when uninvolved buystanders like myself come to his defence, were accused of god knows what without any proof. I see whats happening here, youre not fooling any one.

Lol I am not fooling anyone that is why I am posting with my main account. You are fooling other by making new account and posting.

Most probably you are alt of QuickSeller that is why you are doing this. So later you will sell this account. So it will serve both defending QS and making post so it will move to upward level.
No this is not my account. The only accounts that I have are this one, ACCTseller, one or two others that are attached to my RL identity, and a few newbie accounts that are used to catch scammers trying to scam, however the above account is not one of those accounts. I do not know who this person is.


Find the fire hydrant in my Avatar for a prize.
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May 31, 2015, 09:58:05 PM
 #40

...In the few days that I was off of BadBear's list (and before being added to your list), at least one person was scammed because they did not see a negative I left...

Yes, re-add Quickseller to the default trust list pleez. He's indespensible to this forums security. Also very smart.
'
LOL says one of his alts.

I'm a lover not a hater. I'm a scam buster misunderstood. However, this forum is full of haters which is why you see my trust. They can't handle my success so they try to stop me...BUT NO ONE STOPS MY SUCCESS! ....Find Quickseller annoying? Click the "ignore" button below his name! You're welcome!
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May 31, 2015, 10:13:25 PM
 #41

...In the few days that I was off of BadBear's list (and before being added to your list), at least one person was scammed because they did not see a negative I left...

Yes, re-add Quickseller to the default trust list pleez. He's indespensible to this forums security. Also very smart.
'
LOL says one of his alts.

LOL And he deleted the post Tongue Am sure whomsoever posted this " Yes, re-add Quickseller to the default trust list pleez. He's indespensible to this forums security. Also very smart. " is a kid Tongue

"Also very smart" xD
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May 31, 2015, 10:14:22 PM
 #42

It's not useful AFAICT to create a separate user like that. Anyone listed there and not in your main account won't be in the trust networks of people using the default settings. It'll have different effects for people who have non-default settings, but these effects will vary in ways that you can't predict/affect, and not usually do anything useful.

I recommend just listing everyone who:
- Gives only accurate ratings.
- Has a mostly good trust list. (You can/should fix any problems in their trust list using exclusions in your trust list.)
- Is unlikely to suddenly change the above two things for the worse, especially not maliciously or in cooperation with other users. This is the only point that requires some trust, and it doesn't require that much since you can quickly remove someone from your trust list if necessary. Listing someone in your trust list does not require that you have tons of trust in them.

Removing people from your trust list because they're already in DefaultTrust is not a good idea because some people might trust you and not DefaultTrust.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but as I think it works, Depth 2 ratings hit a little softer than Depth 1.

That's not how it works.

The trust system is composed of two independent parts. The first part is the trust network calculation. From your trust list and depth, it generates a list of users (your trust network) whose ratings you will trust. The second part is trust score/ratings. All ratings from people in the trust network calculated in the first part are weighted equally.

Very few people seem to understand the trust system... Maybe it'd help if I just posted the code...

Code:
function trust_sources($user, $max_depth) {
        // arrays of user IDs
        $sources = array(); // your trust network
        $untrusted = array(); // ~excluded users, including exclusions via trust network
        $last = array($user); // users added in the previous depth round
       
        for($i=0; $i<=$max_depth; $i++) {
                if(count($last) == 0)
                        break;

                // get the trust lists of users added in the last round
                $last = implode(',', $last);
                $q = db_query("select ID_MEMBER_TRUSTED, type
                        from trust where ID_MEMBER in ($last)");

                // take exclusions into account to determine whether
                // to include or exclude each person considered
                $votes = array();
                while(list($u, $type) = mysql_fetch_array($q)) {
                        if(!isset($votes[$u]))
                                $votes[$u] = 0;
                        if($type == 1) // exclude
                                $votes[$u] -= 1;
                        else // trust
                                $votes[$u] += 1;
                }
                $last = array();
                foreach($votes as $u=>$v) {
                        if($v >= 0 && !isset($untrusted[$u])) // include
                                $sources[] = $last[] = $u;
                        else //exclude this person from future depths
                                $untrusted[$u] = 1;
                }

                //default trust
                if(count($last) == 0 && $i == 0 && empty($votes)) {
                        $default = array(122551);
                        $last += $default;
                        $sources += $default;
                }
        }

        //you always trust yourself
        $sources[] = $user;

        $sources = array_unique($sources, SORT_NUMERIC);

        return $sources;
}

Your trust network is trust_sources(<your user ID>, <your configured max depth>). You see ratings as "trusted" if they're posted by anyone in your trust network. All trusted ratings are considered equally in the trust score algorithm (posted elsewhere), and all untrusted ratings are ignored.

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May 31, 2015, 10:21:24 PM
 #43

@Quickseller, do you remember when I said you this thing :

...
But since he (QS) he is not more in the depth 2 of DefaultTrus list his negative trust is not important anymore (under a point of view of the trust system).

and you replied:

A lot of people still have me in their trust list and even more have me in their trust network. My feedback is far from worthless.


Now you know that I do not have nothing against you but I would like to ask you : Are you worried or scared because you are not more in the default trust depth 2 (one more time)? And if you are still thinking this thing, you will not have any type of problem to say out from the depth 2 od that list or am I wrong?


Thanks @theymos for the fantastic explanation.
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May 31, 2015, 10:50:27 PM
 #44

in all fairness QuickSeller dersevees to be on the list more than some of the other people listed...

Exactly! How is Graet on the default trust after he stole peoples money, stopped posting, has negative trust and hasnt logged in to bitcointalk for almost a year? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=17548

Thanks for pointing that out. I've adjusted my Trust list accordingly.

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May 31, 2015, 11:01:26 PM
 #45

I recommend just listing everyone who:
- Gives only accurate ratings.
- Has a mostly good trust list. (You can/should fix any problems in their trust list using exclusions in your trust list.)
- Is unlikely to suddenly change the above two things for the worse, especially not maliciously or in cooperation with other users. This is the only point that requires some trust, and it doesn't require that much since you can quickly remove someone from your trust list if necessary. Listing someone in your trust list does not require that you have tons of trust in them.

Removing people from your trust list because they're already in DefaultTrust is not a good idea because some people might trust you and not DefaultTrust.

I'll just go by this criteria, since it puts things in a much clearer perspective, at least for me. ¡Gracias, El Ymos!

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June 01, 2015, 12:06:35 AM
 #46

@Quickseller, do you remember when I said you this thing :

...
But since he (QS) he is not more in the depth 2 of DefaultTrus list his negative trust is not important anymore (under a point of view of the trust system).

and you replied:

A lot of people still have me in their trust list and even more have me in their trust network. My feedback is far from worthless.


Now you know that I do not have nothing against you but I would like to ask you : Are you worried or scared because you are not more in the default trust depth 2 (one more time)? And if you are still thinking this thing, you will not have any type of problem to say out from the depth 2 od that list or am I wrong?
I never said that you have any problem with me.

I think it is annoying to have so many scammers slandering my name (or my handle since my RL name is not public). More then 95% of people critical of me are scammers, most of which were caught scamming by me. So the ultimate reason want me off the default trust network is because they don't want me stopping their scam prior to them being able to steal money, I am effectively stealing from them.

It is also frustrating to see people get scammed despite me calling them out. IDR what the name of it was however BadBear had called out one of TheGambler's ponzis as being an alt of dmugetsu (one of TheGambler's alts), he simply denied it and then when I called it out as being one of TheGambler's scams, James Volpe was complaining about me within 24 hours. - As I mentioned previously at least one person was already scammed because they were unable to see my rating.

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June 01, 2015, 04:56:34 AM
 #47

Take example of tspacepilot, you necro post with your alt account about his 3 year old post. And then mark negative trust from QS account. It is really misuse of DT. Because That time even so many knew about that. And after that there were no complaint about in tspacepilot account but you did it for some revenge. I don't know what was the motive that you searched 3 year old post to marking red.
That guy is a scammer. Why don't you explain how he is not a scammer, and explain what exactly I was trying to get revenge for?

Gonna have to step in here to answer the slander.

Calling me a scammer now doesn't make it any more true than when you tried it about a month ago.  If you had been able to explain how I was a scammer, then perhaps you wouldn't have this issue of continually getting removed from people's trust lists when they see how volitile you are.  As to what you were taking revenge for, it was pretty clear: you didn't appreciate it when I called you out for being a hothead and for calling people idiots.  I said straight up to you: dude that is a shitty way to be and you are acting like an asshole.  Then, just as deadly said, you went about trolling me with an alt and necro bumping old lies and pretending that they have some validity.  But you overestimated your own importance and people quickly saw through what you were trying to do and you got yourself removed.  All of that is on the record and people can look it up, you can see the threads where he calls people idiots and I say that he shouldn't be doing that.  You can see the threads where he trolls me for 24 hours, threatening to have me kicked off my ad-campaign.  It's all out there for people who (for god knows what reason) may care to look it up.  You can shout that I'm a scammer just like you can shout that nhndc is an extortionist, that doesn't make it true.

Tomatocage has given you another chance.  Looks like you nearly completely blew that one with the ndnhc thing.  However, maybe you'll turn your act around soon mor maybe you'll run out of chances.  Time will tell.
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June 01, 2015, 06:51:01 AM
 #48

said he died in a car crash

Damn, this is somewhat off topic here but is that true about haploid23 passing away? If so I am very saddened to hear that. We had many conversations over the past year or so and I could genuinely tell that he was a pretty good guy. R.I.P. to haploid23 if true.

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June 01, 2015, 09:53:23 AM
 #49

said he died in a car crash

Damn, this is somewhat off topic here but is that true about haploid23 passing away? If so I am very saddened to hear that. We had many conversations over the past year or so and I could genuinely tell that he was a pretty good guy. R.I.P. to haploid23 if true.

Lame. I enjoyed his additions to the debates int he Politics & Society section. I guess that is the curse that us old timers will have to bear as the years pass :/


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June 01, 2015, 10:24:34 AM
 #50

CanaryInTheMine 1872: -0 / +193

Why not have Canary top tier?

Seems to fit Theymos criteria more than

Dogie or Quickseller or Diamond that is for certain.

Dogie trust abuse, spam, bullying, conspiracy posts & insults to forum members. Ask the mods or admins to move Dogie's spam or off topic stalking posts to the link above.
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June 01, 2015, 10:29:16 AM
 #51

CanaryInTheMine 1872: -0 / +193

Why not have Canary top tier?

Seems to fit Theymos criteria more than

Dogie or Quickseller or Diamond that is for certain.

Check various threads in Meta and you will know why CITM is not in default trust list. FYI, CITM was in default trust depth 1 earlier.

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June 01, 2015, 10:42:43 AM
 #52

said he died in a car crash

Damn, this is somewhat off topic here but is that true about haploid23 passing away? If so I am very saddened to hear that. We had many conversations over the past year or so and I could genuinely tell that he was a pretty good guy. R.I.P. to haploid23 if true.

Lame. I enjoyed his additions to the debates int he Politics & Society section. I guess that is the curse that us old timers will have to bear as the years pass :/

I wish someone with some credibility could confirm or deny this. Hate to see one of our own gone.

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June 01, 2015, 10:42:43 AM
 #53

CanaryInTheMine 1872: -0 / +193

Why not have Canary top tier?

Seems to fit Theymos criteria more than

Dogie or Quickseller or Diamond that is for certain.

Check various threads in Meta and you will know why CITM is not in default trust list. FYI, CITM was in default trust depth 1 earlier.

And these graphs of when he was in DefaultTrust.

The same as if Canary was still in DefaultTrust with his old list. You can see the problem his list caused.
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June 01, 2015, 03:59:57 PM
 #54

said he died in a car crash

Damn, this is somewhat off topic here but is that true about haploid23 passing away? If so I am very saddened to hear that. We had many conversations over the past year or so and I could genuinely tell that he was a pretty good guy. R.I.P. to haploid23 if true.
I don't think it is true. There is someone still very active on here that I believe to be one of is alts, although it is not confirmed. I also think I have a pretty good idea why he abandoned that account, although this is also speculation.

Even if I am wrong about the above, I believe that KingOfSports to be living on the east coast, more specifically in the Baltimore metropolitan area. On the other hand, I believe that haploid23 lives in California so the chances of them knowing each other personally are somewhat low. KoS is just a scum that likes to troll.

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June 01, 2015, 04:04:12 PM
 #55

CanaryInTheMine 1872: -0 / +193

Why not have Canary top tier?

Seems to fit Theymos criteria more than

Dogie or Quickseller or Diamond that is for certain.

From what I read, he was removed because people felt that he was adding people to his trust list based on feedback from his business or something like that.  People who bought from him got on his trust list and then others began to think this was too inflated for default trust.  Others have said that many other on default trust do the same thing.  I don't really have an opinion on it.

Also, FWIW, QS is no longer on default trust.
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June 01, 2015, 04:43:10 PM
 #56

Code:
==== Tier 2 ====
DiamondCardz (new add, probationary)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8c5wmeOL9o

I really hope that I'm understanding how the Trust system currently works and this isn't going to end up making me look dumb (well, at least not any more so than usual).

Seems like a perfectly fine use of it for depth 1's to limit who they add to depth 2 and use depth 3 as a testing ground. That's my 6th adding to DefaultTrust depth 3, actually. Smiley I guess you could argue that yeah, that means your decisions won't matter for anyone on default settings, but I guess that would be good if you are actually having someone on probation to keep them on depth 3 and not depth 2.

(Already on depth 2 as a note so don't worry about moving me up to Tier 1 too much)

Edit: Out of curiosity, why is BCB Tier 1? Didn't he stick tracking pixels in posts, and hasn't he vanished from Bitcointalk now?

 
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June 01, 2015, 06:20:47 PM
 #57

Its good to keep the trust list updated and keep adding/removing users who deserve it
users on default trust list should be active and helping to spot scammers, and ofcourse not selling trust indirectly with their services
i have seen many guys who started their service as soon as they were added to default trust list.

thumbs up tomatocage  Cool

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June 01, 2015, 08:31:13 PM
 #58

Code:
==== Trimmed ====
OgNasty (already in DefaultTrust)

I know it doesn't make a difference, but it still hurts getting axed from a list.  I like to be included. Cry

 Tongue

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