Bitcoin Forum
December 17, 2017, 12:39:29 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoin is not decentralised. Proof right now.  (Read 1499 times)
neurotypical
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672



View Profile
June 02, 2015, 10:28:10 PM
 #21

What in Bitcoin is not decentralized? I seem to miss the point of all this? ...
You are not the one missing the point.  Wink

The argument is the same as arguing that potcoin or dogcoin will centralize bitcoin. These are just forks that have not been adopted as much. When the fork comes to BTC some will go one way others another. But there is no centralization in the system, Only choices. And the number of nodes means very little. It is clearly a reflection of the community increasingly using online wallets and not running a full node. 

I predict that the real $#!T storm will happen when the users who panic switch to a silly alt wake up to find that the value has drained out of their holdings. Spoiler alert! Its going to be the fault of Gavin and his shadowy government handlers. lol

It's funny how there are 0 problems in terms of democratic decisions since the people choose the fork they want in majority, my concern is that Bitcoin seems like it will never be able to sustain enough transactions per second to be able to compete with VISA, Mastercard etc. combined.

"This isn't the kind of software where we can leave so many unresolved bugs that we need a tracker for them." -- Satoshi
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513471169
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513471169

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513471169
Reply with quote  #2

1513471169
Report to moderator
1513471169
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513471169

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513471169
Reply with quote  #2

1513471169
Report to moderator
Kprawn
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330


★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!


View Profile
June 03, 2015, 05:44:40 AM
 #22

What in Bitcoin is not decentralized? I seem to miss the point of all this? ...
You are not the one missing the point.  Wink

The argument is the same as arguing that potcoin or dogcoin will centralize bitcoin. These are just forks that have not been adopted as much. When the fork comes to BTC some will go one way others another. But there is no centralization in the system, Only choices. And the number of nodes means very little. It is clearly a reflection of the community increasingly using online wallets and not running a full node. 

I predict that the real $#!T storm will happen when the users who panic switch to a silly alt wake up to find that the value has drained out of their holdings. Spoiler alert! Its going to be the fault of Gavin and his shadowy government handlers. lol

It's funny how there are 0 problems in terms of democratic decisions since the people choose the fork they want in majority, my concern is that Bitcoin seems like it will never be able to sustain enough transactions per second to be able to compete with VISA, Mastercard etc. combined.

That is exacly what I have been thinking... We are all splitting hairs about this, but we do not even compete with VISA/MasterCard to take a share of the market. A lot of people are saying Bitcoin will be the disruption in this field, but the technical restraints keep us from doing just that.

I wish they can wake up and smell the coffee... We cannot disrupt, if we are crippled by the restrictions in the protocol. It has to change for us to go mainstream. PERIOD.

If you have a better solution... Bring IT.

Amph
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1722


Zabercoin – An Asset Backed Cryptocurrency


View Profile
June 03, 2015, 06:29:21 AM
 #23

It's not decentralised or even democratic. And it will even less be so if people switch to Gavins' fork.

Bitcoin is not decentralised enough but not centralised. Democracy is not the a objective goal of bitcoin. There is some degree of democracy if the chain forks. You can choose either fork, no one is forcing you to choose gavin's xt fork.

this is not correct, you can't choose either fork, are the miners that will choose for you, you must follow them in the end, choosing the fork with 10% consensus is useless...

What 10%? from what i've read is 90%. The hard fork (real fork) only will happen if 90% of nodes are on XT. And no, anyone with a computer running a node (having a Core or XT wallet opened) can vote, by simply doing that.

learn to read, i said that choosing the one with only 10% is not worth it, because the one that matter is that with 90%, so at the end we will just follow what merchant and miners will choose

what i mean is that in the end you will be forced to go with what the majority will follow

THE FUTURE OF
REAL ESTATE
..

║║
║║
║║
▬▬ ● ● ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ● ● ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ● ● ▬▬▬▬▬▬ ● ● ▬▬

║║
║║
║║
Muhammed Zakir
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560


I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!


View Profile WWW
June 03, 2015, 01:45:06 PM
 #24

It's not decentralised or even democratic. And it will even less be so if people switch to Gavins' fork.

 -snip-

Gavin also does not care about node count so the network itself will become a lot less decentralised on his Gavinfork.

 -snip-

Why? Why you keep saying Bitcoin will be more centralized if we accept that fork?

neurotypical
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672



View Profile
June 03, 2015, 03:49:18 PM
 #25

It's not decentralised or even democratic. And it will even less be so if people switch to Gavins' fork.

If PEOPLE choose to run nodes on XT, then XT will be the strongest chain. If people stick with Core, core will continue being the main chain. That's all. The devs can do whatever. At the end of the day, Bitcoin is nothing without the people running nodes. The people will decide what solution they prefer.

How many actual people (or humans) are left running full nodes currently?  I thought that only large ASIC/server farms were doing that now.  This proposal centralizes bitcoin even more because it makes it more expensive to run a node meaning that it favors the large mining cartels.  This is a centralization coup to control all the future development.  If Gavin can get the big boys to switch, then he controls the network, because it would obviously be easier to get them to switch again next time.  Because with each centralization fork (TPS scalability increase), there will be fewer and fewer nodes to convince to switch protocols each time until there is just one giant GVINODE!!!  At that point, the only person he has to convince to make a change to the protocol will be himself, which is incidentally the way BitShares works for every user (not just the king).  Every user has to convince themselves what fork they want to support, then they vote their conscious, and the blockchain counts the votes and instantly implements the consensus.

Gavin is not just promoting his proposed bill, he is fast tracking it through Congress and will sign it into law weather you like it or not.  He controls the protocol that mints your money.  Of course he would not be so audacious as to raise the 21 million coin limit today, but when he controls the Gavinode, then pure power is just a mouse click away.

Wow....first the TPP, then the Freedom Act, now the Gavinode.

Is bitcoin more centralized today than it was 2 years ago?  We continue down this path toward centralization for the perceived benefit of "scalability"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-02/americas-biggest-secret-wikileaks-raising-100000-reward-leaks-tpp

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-02/freedom-1-0-surveillance-state-maybe-senate-passes-un-amended-usa-freedom-act-bill

The battle for decentralization is never ending.  Good thing that we live in a community where our voices are heard and our votes are counted!

As far as I know, running a node is simply having your Bitcoin Core (or XT) wallet sync and open. That's all.
As far as industrialization of mining. This was something satoshi predicted. He knew making money off bitcoin mining for the average single person with a computer would only be profitable at the beginning, and as time goes on professionals would gather to do it, so I don't see the big fuzz about this.

Don't get me wrong, I think the 20MB idea is useless and only a small patch, but staying 1MB is equally stupid (including LN, which has elements of centralization too anyway).

anderson00673
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 308



View Profile
June 03, 2015, 04:02:35 PM
 #26

It's not decentralised or even democratic. And it will even less be so if people switch to Gavins' fork.

 -snip-

Gavin also does not care about node count so the network itself will become a lot less decentralised on his Gavinfork.

 -snip-

Why? Why you keep saying Bitcoin will be more centralized if we accept that fork?

Because he is just spamming fud nonsense.  Feel free to ignore him, he clearly has no idea what the fork is or why it is being done.  His account along with some others here appears to have been created for the sole purpose of spreading fud.
Muhammed Zakir
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560


I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!


View Profile WWW
June 03, 2015, 04:15:55 PM
 #27

-snip-
Don't get me wrong, I think the 20MB idea is useless and only a small patch, {...}

Why?

Because he is just spamming fud nonsense.  Feel free to ignore him, he clearly has no idea what the fork is or why it is being done.  His account along with some others here appears to have been created for the sole purpose of spreading fud.

I don't like to ignore.

Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!