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MoonShadow
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September 10, 2012, 07:39:06 PM
 #1

I took my daughter to an Appleseed this past weekend.  Between the two of us, we fired off over 1100 rounds.  She's a better shot than I am; probably because it's hard to break bad habits from years of trying to teach myself.  She's 12, and this is her first formal training in marksmanship.  In the beginning, she wasn't putting anything on a poster sized target; but by the end she was scoring in the 170's on the "Quick & Dirty" 25 meter Army Qualification Test.  The best score I've ever got was 15 or so years ago in the USMC somewhere between 180 and 190.

I'm exausted and she's ready to do it again.

Good times, though.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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September 11, 2012, 03:56:18 AM
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OK.

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September 11, 2012, 10:38:36 AM
 #3

Just a question.

Why would you want a 12 year old to learn shooting?



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MoonShadow
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September 11, 2012, 05:06:30 PM
 #4

Just a question.

Why would you want a 12 year old to learn shooting?

I want her to learn firearms safety, learning to shoot well is just fun.

I took my son there last year, and he was only 8.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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September 11, 2012, 07:42:08 PM
 #5

Just a question.

Why would you want a 12 year old to learn shooting?
That is so she can catch up with her American peers who learn at 10. Hell, I owned a gun by 10.

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September 11, 2012, 08:15:30 PM
 #6

Just a question.

Why would you want a 12 year old to learn shooting?

I want her to learn firearms safety, learning to shoot well is just fun.

I took my son there last year, and he was only 8.

I find those facts shocking as a normal person here where I live never gets to touch a gun in his life.



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MoonShadow
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September 11, 2012, 08:29:55 PM
 #7

Just a question.

Why would you want a 12 year old to learn shooting?
That is so she can catch up with her American peers who learn at 10. Hell, I owned a gun by 10.

Well, my wife & I bought her a 22LR rifle for her 9th birthday, and both my wife and my daughter have repeatedly pointed out how she has never actually fired her own rifle.  (Turns out, her rifle may have been defective from the factory, she had to borrow one at Appleseed.  I used her brother's, which can fire a sub MOA with CCI ammo; just not by me)  The problem is that we live in a city, and the only choices we have are to go out to Grammy's farm or to a pay for membership gun range.  Grammy's farm is a bit of a trek, (and not particularly welcome, see below) while Appleseed is held at that very gun range and the range fees are lower for the Appleseed event than if I just took her out myself.  And as they proved this weekend, they are much better at teaching children than I am.  Undoutedly, she had more fun in a group of other children than she would have training with me alone.  She's a social butterfly anyway.

Ironicly, I grew up in a liberal (read anti-gun & anti-military) household.  I joined the USMC at 18, which pissed off my parents.  I took great joy in buying my kids their own firearms, which again royally pissed off their grandparents.  The look of shock on my mother's face when my daughter opened that present was precious.  I have long had a policy against toy guns in my home.  My parents, incorrectly, took that to mean that I shared their value systems; whereas I just didn't want to associate a realisticly looking toy with playing.  I wanted them to treat anything that looked like a weapon as if it really was one, even if they knew better.  I required this of them even while they were at my sister's house, where their cousins had toy guns but there were no firearms in the household.  My parents were unaware that I had long had firearms of my own.  I gave the present to my daughter, then stepped back with the camera to take a photo of my mother's face, not my daughter's.  Once opening it, my mom said something like, "What happened to the no toy guns rule?  Wait, IS THAT A REAL GUN!?"  *click*  "Why, yes, Mom; it is! I felt that she might have been getting a little old for toys."  Both my wife & I were laughing out loud at this point, and my parents understood that we set it up (partially) to mock them.

My own mother wouldn't even talk to me for several weeks.  It's still funny, though.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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September 11, 2012, 08:33:26 PM
 #8

Just a question.

Why would you want a 12 year old to learn shooting?

I want her to learn firearms safety, learning to shoot well is just fun.

I took my son there last year, and he was only 8.

I find those facts shocking as a normal person here where I live never gets to touch a gun in his life.

Where do you live?

EDIT:  Ah, nevermind.  I can see from your profile that you live in the Peoples' Republic of Spain.  Ironicly, some of the best shotguns available are manufactured in Spain.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/spanish_shotguns.htm


EDIT2:  The US federal government has long had a program for encouraging marksmenship skills in the civilian population (yes, that includes all of the "liberal" administrations, despite some recent anti-gun propoganda to end the program) called the Civilian Marksmanship Program.  http://www.odcmp.com/

The Appleseed program is one that primarily uses 22lr rifles, while most of the others use airsoft rifles.  The point of the CMP is to instil high levels of skill into young adults, should the draft ever be reinstated due to another world war level event.  The CMP is also the only federal program authorised by law to sell military surplus rifles to the public, so I can now go buy a M1 Garand, a WWII surplus rifle worth at least $1200 if you can buy it at all.  One of the instructors had one there to show off, and it's beautiful.  I've literally never seen one before in person, that wasn't behind glass at the Frazier Military History Museum  (http://www.fraziermuseum.org/)

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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September 12, 2012, 08:57:18 AM
 #9

Just a question.

Why would you want a 12 year old to learn shooting?

I want her to learn firearms safety, learning to shoot well is just fun.

I took my son there last year, and he was only 8.

I find those facts shocking as a normal person here where I live never gets to touch a gun in his life.

Where do you live?

EDIT:  Ah, nevermind.  I can see from your profile that you live in the Peoples' Republic of Spain.  Ironicly, some of the best shotguns available are manufactured in Spain.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/spanish_shotguns.htm


EDIT2:  The US federal government has long had a program for encouraging marksmenship skills in the civilian population (yes, that includes all of the "liberal" administrations, despite some recent anti-gun propoganda to end the program) called the Civilian Marksmanship Program.  http://www.odcmp.com/

The Appleseed program is one that primarily uses 22lr rifles, while most of the others use airsoft rifles.  The point of the CMP is to instil high levels of skill into young adults, should the draft ever be reinstated due to another world war level event.  The CMP is also the only federal program authorised by law to sell military surplus rifles to the public, so I can now go buy a M1 Garand, a WWII surplus rifle worth at least $1200 if you can buy it at all.  One of the instructors had one there to show off, and it's beautiful.  I've literally never seen one before in person, that wasn't behind glass at the Frazier Military History Museum  (http://www.fraziermuseum.org/)

On the other hand, I'm swiss.

And all the male swiss citizen have to make the obligatory military service.
So, yeah there's a lot of contrast in each country.



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MoonShadow
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September 12, 2012, 03:36:05 PM
 #10

Just a question.

Why would you want a 12 year old to learn shooting?

I want her to learn firearms safety, learning to shoot well is just fun.

I took my son there last year, and he was only 8.

I find those facts shocking as a normal person here where I live never gets to touch a gun in his life.

Where do you live?

EDIT:  Ah, nevermind.  I can see from your profile that you live in the Peoples' Republic of Spain.  Ironicly, some of the best shotguns available are manufactured in Spain.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/spanish_shotguns.htm


EDIT2:  The US federal government has long had a program for encouraging marksmenship skills in the civilian population (yes, that includes all of the "liberal" administrations, despite some recent anti-gun propoganda to end the program) called the Civilian Marksmanship Program.  http://www.odcmp.com/

The Appleseed program is one that primarily uses 22lr rifles, while most of the others use airsoft rifles.  The point of the CMP is to instil high levels of skill into young adults, should the draft ever be reinstated due to another world war level event.  The CMP is also the only federal program authorised by law to sell military surplus rifles to the public, so I can now go buy a M1 Garand, a WWII surplus rifle worth at least $1200 if you can buy it at all.  One of the instructors had one there to show off, and it's beautiful.  I've literally never seen one before in person, that wasn't behind glass at the Frazier Military History Museum  (http://www.fraziermuseum.org/)

On the other hand, I'm swiss.

And all the male swiss citizen have to make the obligatory military service.
So, yeah there's a lot of contrast in each country.

On a loosely related note....

1) The Swiss were the first soverign nation to recognize the independent United States,

2) the first nation to loan us money and...

3) the inspiration for the US constitution's 2nd amendment & general 'militia' defense mindset prior to 1880.

Also the foundation story of the Swiss (Will Penn?) is one of the first lessons my children have learned about in their homeschool curriculum (www.sonlight.com).  In fact, that story is taught to kindergarten ages and before the story of the US itself.

What made a Swiss born move to Spain?  Work?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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September 12, 2012, 07:41:47 PM
 #11


On a loosely related note....

1) The Swiss were the first soverign nation to recognize the independent United States,
...
Is that right? For what it's worth I was in Morocco recently and half the people I met made a point of saying that Morocco was the first to recognize the U.S. But maybe they did not fit the definition of a sovereign nation at the time? I have no idea.

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September 12, 2012, 11:49:13 PM
 #12


On a loosely related note....

1) The Swiss were the first soverign nation to recognize the independent United States,
...
Is that right? For what it's worth I was in Morocco recently and half the people I met made a point of saying that Morocco was the first to recognize the U.S. But maybe they did not fit the definition of a sovereign nation at the time? I have no idea.

Well, a quick google search reveals that not only is my memory a bit off on this topic, there is a bit of disagreement as to that point anyway.

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco%E2%80%93United_States_relations) Moroocco officially recognised the US on Dec 20th 1777.  However the Wikipedia page on the Netherlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands-US_relations) states this little tidbit...

"The Netherlands was the first foreign country to salute the American Flag on November 16 1776[1] and therefore the first foreign nation to (unofficially) recognise the United States as an independent nation. On 19 April 1782 John Adams was received by the States General in The Hague and recognized as Minister Plenipotentiary of the United States of America. The house that Adams purchased in The Hague became the first American embassy in the world."

So I was wrong.  There, I said it.

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September 13, 2012, 01:59:27 AM
 #13

When I was growing up, I was not allowed to own a gun. Today, I still don't, but have in the past and know how to use them. But put a gun in my face, and in 2.1 seconds you'll be meeting your maker (used to be 1.6 seconds, but I've gotten older and slower at this skill). Don't ask me what I know or where I've learnt it, for I'm under contractual agreement to not disclose, but I'll give you a strong hint: I don't have a single tattoo.

~Bruno~
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September 13, 2012, 02:12:30 AM
 #14

When I was growing up, I was not allowed to own a gun. Today, I still don't, but have in the past and know how to use them. But put a gun in my face, and in 2.1 seconds you'll be meeting your maker (used to be 1.6 seconds, but I've gotten older and slower at this skill). Don't ask me what I know or where I've learnt it, for I'm under contractual agreement to not disclose, but I'll give you a strong hint: I don't have a single tattoo.

~Bruno~

Well, that explains where you got your mad datamining skillz.

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September 13, 2012, 10:08:16 AM
 #15

Just a question.

Why would you want a 12 year old to learn shooting?

I want her to learn firearms safety, learning to shoot well is just fun.

I took my son there last year, and he was only 8.

I find those facts shocking as a normal person here where I live never gets to touch a gun in his life.

Where do you live?

EDIT:  Ah, nevermind.  I can see from your profile that you live in the Peoples' Republic of Spain.  Ironicly, some of the best shotguns available are manufactured in Spain.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/spanish_shotguns.htm


EDIT2:  The US federal government has long had a program for encouraging marksmenship skills in the civilian population (yes, that includes all of the "liberal" administrations, despite some recent anti-gun propoganda to end the program) called the Civilian Marksmanship Program.  http://www.odcmp.com/

The Appleseed program is one that primarily uses 22lr rifles, while most of the others use airsoft rifles.  The point of the CMP is to instil high levels of skill into young adults, should the draft ever be reinstated due to another world war level event.  The CMP is also the only federal program authorised by law to sell military surplus rifles to the public, so I can now go buy a M1 Garand, a WWII surplus rifle worth at least $1200 if you can buy it at all.  One of the instructors had one there to show off, and it's beautiful.  I've literally never seen one before in person, that wasn't behind glass at the Frazier Military History Museum  (http://www.fraziermuseum.org/)

On the other hand, I'm swiss.

And all the male swiss citizen have to make the obligatory military service.
So, yeah there's a lot of contrast in each country.

On a loosely related note....

1) The Swiss were the first soverign nation to recognize the independent United States,

2) the first nation to loan us money and...

3) the inspiration for the US constitution's 2nd amendment & general 'militia' defense mindset prior to 1880.

Also the foundation story of the Swiss (Will Penn?) is one of the first lessons my children have learned about in their homeschool curriculum (www.sonlight.com).  In fact, that story is taught to kindergarten ages and before the story of the US itself.

What made a Swiss born move to Spain?  Work?

Mother is spanish.



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